The 3 C's
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 47
The 3 C's
Haven't posted in awhile. I'm doing ok, not great but ok. Pretty much just trying to get through one day at a time. The kids keep me busy so I don't have a lot of time to think (mope), but then when I do get a free moment, I worry that I'm not doing the right thing, not doing enough, doing everything wrong, etc.
Today is my RAH's 90th day of sobriety. It is also the 90th day he hasn't lived here and that makes me so sad. Every day I look for some tiny glimmer of hope...and sometimes I find it, but I'm not sure if I'm forcing myself to see something that is not there, or if there really is some sort of hope for us.
At the beginning, my RAH was extremely angry with me, pretty much blamed his progression into alcoholism on me. I was upset about that for a long time, even though I read here on SR everyday that I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure him. For years he has told me my actions/words "cause" him to drink. The house was never clean enough, the kids didn't behave the right way, the finances weren't perfect, I didn't cook enough, I was lazy, etc. Depending on how life was going, I could look at it 2 ways...one, yes...all of those things were sometimes true...but I blamed his drinking...if only he wouldn't drink, then I would be a better housekeeper, mother, cook, wife, etc. Two, those things were true at times and it was my fault because I chose what to do and what not to do.
Last week I brought up the 3 C's at my Al-Anon meeting. Several people spoke and I appreciated everything that was said, but I still don't have a clear answer. No, I never literally poured alcohol down his throat...but maybe he wouldn't have drank so much if he wasn't married to me? He drank a lot when we met...but he was 22, that's what 22 year olds do. Would it have progressed so much over the next 17 years if he hadn't been with me? I'm not looking for an answer really. And I know I can't "convince" him that it's not my fault. He just has so much anger toward me right now and I feel like I should be doing "something", I just don't know what. Yes, I'm concentrating on my recovery, going to alanon, reading my books, readin here on SR, trying not to worry or think too much about what he is doing. But everyday that he lives in his apartment, it seems less likely he will return to our home, our marriage, our family. He is grouchy most of the time, always says he is having a rough day. Part of me wants to scream "see, that's life! It wasn't just me that made yor life miserable! Being apart from me doesn't fix everything!"
Of course I'm not going to do that...and I know that I just need to be patient...but it's hard! He said again last week "I just don't know if I want to be married to you" and I said...so, do you want a divorce? He said "I didn't say that". We have literally not had a conversation about "us" in over 90 days. We speak about the kids but everytime I ask him anything about us, he shuts down, says I'm being annoying and asking too many questions. Ugh! This post is all over the place. I guess I was looking for you guys to respond about the 3 C's...I mean, I "hear" you say it, but I guess it's not sinking in. It kind of seems like a great excuse for me to NOT take responsibility for the way things have gone...
Today is my RAH's 90th day of sobriety. It is also the 90th day he hasn't lived here and that makes me so sad. Every day I look for some tiny glimmer of hope...and sometimes I find it, but I'm not sure if I'm forcing myself to see something that is not there, or if there really is some sort of hope for us.
At the beginning, my RAH was extremely angry with me, pretty much blamed his progression into alcoholism on me. I was upset about that for a long time, even though I read here on SR everyday that I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't cure him. For years he has told me my actions/words "cause" him to drink. The house was never clean enough, the kids didn't behave the right way, the finances weren't perfect, I didn't cook enough, I was lazy, etc. Depending on how life was going, I could look at it 2 ways...one, yes...all of those things were sometimes true...but I blamed his drinking...if only he wouldn't drink, then I would be a better housekeeper, mother, cook, wife, etc. Two, those things were true at times and it was my fault because I chose what to do and what not to do.
Last week I brought up the 3 C's at my Al-Anon meeting. Several people spoke and I appreciated everything that was said, but I still don't have a clear answer. No, I never literally poured alcohol down his throat...but maybe he wouldn't have drank so much if he wasn't married to me? He drank a lot when we met...but he was 22, that's what 22 year olds do. Would it have progressed so much over the next 17 years if he hadn't been with me? I'm not looking for an answer really. And I know I can't "convince" him that it's not my fault. He just has so much anger toward me right now and I feel like I should be doing "something", I just don't know what. Yes, I'm concentrating on my recovery, going to alanon, reading my books, readin here on SR, trying not to worry or think too much about what he is doing. But everyday that he lives in his apartment, it seems less likely he will return to our home, our marriage, our family. He is grouchy most of the time, always says he is having a rough day. Part of me wants to scream "see, that's life! It wasn't just me that made yor life miserable! Being apart from me doesn't fix everything!"
Of course I'm not going to do that...and I know that I just need to be patient...but it's hard! He said again last week "I just don't know if I want to be married to you" and I said...so, do you want a divorce? He said "I didn't say that". We have literally not had a conversation about "us" in over 90 days. We speak about the kids but everytime I ask him anything about us, he shuts down, says I'm being annoying and asking too many questions. Ugh! This post is all over the place. I guess I was looking for you guys to respond about the 3 C's...I mean, I "hear" you say it, but I guess it's not sinking in. It kind of seems like a great excuse for me to NOT take responsibility for the way things have gone...
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
I think that's the point. You can't take responsibility for how things have gone and are going FOR HIM. You can and should take responsibility for how things have gone for YOU.
That's what they mean about keeping your own side of the street clean. You don't have to, and in fact it's futile to, take responsibility for other people's business.
He sounds kind of hard to deal with. I am very sorry, and I know how hard it is to be a single parent. Do what you can to protect your peace.
That's what they mean about keeping your own side of the street clean. You don't have to, and in fact it's futile to, take responsibility for other people's business.
He sounds kind of hard to deal with. I am very sorry, and I know how hard it is to be a single parent. Do what you can to protect your peace.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
There's no doubt in my mind that you did not, do not, will not, and cannot cause him to drink. The answer to "You don't cook enough" is never "I must therefore drink a liter of vodka," or whatever.
Was he unhappy in the relationship? Maybe. Did his unhappiness lead him to take solace in a bottle of vodka? Also maybe. Are there about thirty thousand other ways to deal with one's unhappiness? YES.
We can go over these questions endlessly but we will never have a satisfactory answer. And even if someone were to tell you that yes, there was something you could have done differently and nothing would be the same as it is now (and if they did I would seriously consider whether that was someone you needed in your circle of friends)...what difference would that make? Do you have a time machine? If so, can I borrow it?
Step one for A's and Anon's is "we admitted we were powerless over alcohol." End of sentence. It sounds like he has a great deal invested in re-writing his Step One into "my wife made me powerless over alcohol," and he's going to have a devil of a time with his recovery if that is the case. But that isn't your problem.
All that being said, you have had your share of responsibility for how you may or may not have reacted to his alcohol use. That is what you are exploring in Al-Anon. And it is separate from his contribution. No one takes 100% of the blame here. And no one gets to shove off their share on someone else.
I'm glad you are doing ok. I hope you are at least finding moments to appreciate some time with your kids, or taking care of yourself. Hugs to you.
Was he unhappy in the relationship? Maybe. Did his unhappiness lead him to take solace in a bottle of vodka? Also maybe. Are there about thirty thousand other ways to deal with one's unhappiness? YES.
We can go over these questions endlessly but we will never have a satisfactory answer. And even if someone were to tell you that yes, there was something you could have done differently and nothing would be the same as it is now (and if they did I would seriously consider whether that was someone you needed in your circle of friends)...what difference would that make? Do you have a time machine? If so, can I borrow it?
Step one for A's and Anon's is "we admitted we were powerless over alcohol." End of sentence. It sounds like he has a great deal invested in re-writing his Step One into "my wife made me powerless over alcohol," and he's going to have a devil of a time with his recovery if that is the case. But that isn't your problem.
All that being said, you have had your share of responsibility for how you may or may not have reacted to his alcohol use. That is what you are exploring in Al-Anon. And it is separate from his contribution. No one takes 100% of the blame here. And no one gets to shove off their share on someone else.
I'm glad you are doing ok. I hope you are at least finding moments to appreciate some time with your kids, or taking care of yourself. Hugs to you.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
Justshy,
I would like to ask you how it feels to NOT have a controlling abusive alcoholic in your house? Have you felt peaceful? Relaxed because the eggshells you have been stepping around are no longer there?
Maybe, and this is just my experience, you are so used to the chaos and criticism it is difficult to let go of it and choose to enjoy the peace.
Your husband sounds very disturbed and angry.
You always have a choice. I do understand how sometimes it does not feel that way, but I had to practice detachment and still have to practice today.
Beth
I would like to ask you how it feels to NOT have a controlling abusive alcoholic in your house? Have you felt peaceful? Relaxed because the eggshells you have been stepping around are no longer there?
Maybe, and this is just my experience, you are so used to the chaos and criticism it is difficult to let go of it and choose to enjoy the peace.
Your husband sounds very disturbed and angry.
You always have a choice. I do understand how sometimes it does not feel that way, but I had to practice detachment and still have to practice today.
Beth
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,207
Do you have a time machine? If so, can I borrow it? THANK YOU Sparkle Kitty for making my whole entire day!
And wicked, I have realized that one reason I get so upset when my children's father goes on a hate-texting spree with me is that I no longer live like that and it's so bizarre when I do encounter it.
I can't trade my peace for anything now that I have it for the first time in my adult life.
Justshy, keep posting here. We will help you decipher his BS.
And wicked, I have realized that one reason I get so upset when my children's father goes on a hate-texting spree with me is that I no longer live like that and it's so bizarre when I do encounter it.
I can't trade my peace for anything now that I have it for the first time in my adult life.
Justshy, keep posting here. We will help you decipher his BS.
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
The answer to "You don't cook enough" is never "I must therefore drink a liter of vodka," or whatever.
When I was drinking, I am sure I thought, maybe I should clean? Nah, just drink another case of beer! <snicker>
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Waterford MI
Posts: 4,202
And wicked, I have realized that one reason I get so upset when my children's father goes on a hate-texting spree with me is that I no longer live like that and it's so bizarre when I do encounter it.
Like I just remembered in my post above that every reason was a good reason to drink, and that alcoholic reasoning is beyond bizarre. I was gonna drink that case anyway, but I always had to have my little stupid reason. Geez. How grateful am I today?
VERY grateful,
Beth
Living in a Pinkful Place
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 7,545
((justshy))
I bumped a thread called "Quackers" - it's a long thread that many members have posted the reasons why their A's have said why they drink ~
if you have some time please read this - it may help you a little with the 3 c's ~
Hopefully you can see with an A there is always an excuse to drink ~ it truly has nothing to do with any of us
I wish you peace and healing thru your own recovery ~ you deserve it!
pink hugs
I bumped a thread called "Quackers" - it's a long thread that many members have posted the reasons why their A's have said why they drink ~
if you have some time please read this - it may help you a little with the 3 c's ~
Hopefully you can see with an A there is always an excuse to drink ~ it truly has nothing to do with any of us
I wish you peace and healing thru your own recovery ~ you deserve it!
pink hugs
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
Although your AH isn't drinking, I wouldn't jump to say he's in "recovery" based on the behavior you describe. He's continuing the blame game, he's grumpy, he's always having a rough day. That's not recovery, that's a dry drunk.
We all have difficult situations in our life, stressful events or people, times of crisis. We don't all decide the answer is to drink. We always have choices. Maybe you made him angry now and then (what marriage doesn't experience that), but HE made the decision that his response would be to drink. Someone else may decide to go for a run, or talk to a counselor, talk to a trusted friend, or call a time out and talk about it later with their partner. An A in recovery can call their Sponsor if they're feeling the need to drink in response to something. Your husband CHOSE to drink. Not your fault.
You didn't Cause him to be an alcoholic, you sure as hell can't Cure him, and you've learned already you can't Control it.
We all have difficult situations in our life, stressful events or people, times of crisis. We don't all decide the answer is to drink. We always have choices. Maybe you made him angry now and then (what marriage doesn't experience that), but HE made the decision that his response would be to drink. Someone else may decide to go for a run, or talk to a counselor, talk to a trusted friend, or call a time out and talk about it later with their partner. An A in recovery can call their Sponsor if they're feeling the need to drink in response to something. Your husband CHOSE to drink. Not your fault.
You didn't Cause him to be an alcoholic, you sure as hell can't Cure him, and you've learned already you can't Control it.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 211
Hi Justshy, my AH got sober and started AA 1 week before we left. That was 7 months ago. He is still sober and he alternates between needy and grumpy. I feel for you.
For me, the 3 C's are:
You didn't cause it: Is he an adult? Then he can choose what he wants to do. People in this life have lived through the most horrendous things (even us) and we did not choose to handle it by drinking. Even if you are the worst cook and housekeeper in the world, these are really minor reasons for an adult to choose to drink. YOU DO NOT/DID NOT CAUSE HIM TO BE AN ALCOHOLIC.
You can't cure him: You can't even have a conversation about your relationship with him..you cannot cure him.
You can't control it: There is absolutely NOTHING you could have done or can do to control his drinking, or control the outcome of his drinking. That means that if you were completely perfect, gorgeous, a goddess, a jeanie, did absolutely everything since thing exactly right, it would not MAKE him be any different than what HE chooses.
That's my take on it. I hope it helps.
For me, the 3 C's are:
You didn't cause it: Is he an adult? Then he can choose what he wants to do. People in this life have lived through the most horrendous things (even us) and we did not choose to handle it by drinking. Even if you are the worst cook and housekeeper in the world, these are really minor reasons for an adult to choose to drink. YOU DO NOT/DID NOT CAUSE HIM TO BE AN ALCOHOLIC.
You can't cure him: You can't even have a conversation about your relationship with him..you cannot cure him.
You can't control it: There is absolutely NOTHING you could have done or can do to control his drinking, or control the outcome of his drinking. That means that if you were completely perfect, gorgeous, a goddess, a jeanie, did absolutely everything since thing exactly right, it would not MAKE him be any different than what HE chooses.
That's my take on it. I hope it helps.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 124
Alcoholics drink because of what happened in the past, they drink because of what may happen in the future, they drink to avoid the present, because when you live in the past and/or the future, the present is too real.
If other people could make me drink, an alcoholic partner would have me doing shots right now. Do not blame yourself.
I had an eating problem, did I blame the chef? Did I blame who bought the food? No. If I have a problem, I take care of it. It's my problem. (I'm at a fit 148 lbs now!)
My AGF blames me not moving forward selling my house that still has the ex wife's name on it(housing market troubles) as her source. Spring is the time to sell, I'm selling. Had a termite inspection 2 days ago, and the realtor came over last night. House will be ready in a month for sale....still got a nasty text when I told her the realtor was coming over. I'm wondering what her new excuse for drinking will be. It's like a soap opera. You can stop watching for years and come back and it's the same drama
If other people could make me drink, an alcoholic partner would have me doing shots right now. Do not blame yourself.
I had an eating problem, did I blame the chef? Did I blame who bought the food? No. If I have a problem, I take care of it. It's my problem. (I'm at a fit 148 lbs now!)
My AGF blames me not moving forward selling my house that still has the ex wife's name on it(housing market troubles) as her source. Spring is the time to sell, I'm selling. Had a termite inspection 2 days ago, and the realtor came over last night. House will be ready in a month for sale....still got a nasty text when I told her the realtor was coming over. I'm wondering what her new excuse for drinking will be. It's like a soap opera. You can stop watching for years and come back and it's the same drama
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Virginia
Posts: 47
Thank you for the replies so far. I loved the quacking thread. Some were laugh out loud funny! Something that was mentioned in a previous post and then again here is that although my husband is not drinking...he is not necessarily in recovery. That is hard for me to understand. He has not drank in 90 days (as far as I know). He has gone to AA meetings on about 80 of those days. He has a sponsor. He goes to a "step meeting" on Sunday mornings with his sponsor. He reads books about alcoholism. So...it looks like he is doing everything "right". However...he is grouchy, he is mean/hateful when I talk to him, he went from being the "best dad ever" (when not drinking), to a dad that rarely sees his kids (I can understand work and AA obligations...but getting a tattoo, going on a golf trip, riding his motorcycle, etc at times the kids had planned to see him seems...not very thoughtful...). So, I guess because it "looks" like he is doing everything right, I assumed that it must be ME who is doing something wrong. The "old" me would want to immediately write a nice long email explaining all of this to him to "show" him that he needs to "recover" more or differently or whatever...but the new improved me knows the correct thing to do is be patient and hope/pray that he eventually figures it out on his own...and even if he doesn't...not my problem. Wow, that sounds good, now if I can just actually feel that way!😀
Last edited by Justshy; 03-22-2013 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Typo
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Wow, JustShy. You are doing great! I hope you can stop for a moment in your busy life and give yourself a pat on the back. Going to Al-Anon...trying to stay as detached as possible...asking some pretty deep questions...this is all very good progress!
I love that you can see this. I think its huge and its the answer to your question to us about the three C's. It also should validate a lot of your concerns about your behavior causing him to drink.
When you first came here - we really insisted you leave him alone and let him deal with his own life for a while. I think the quote above is a good example of why. First of all - the space will allow you to clear your head and see things you probably didn't see before when your face was stuck right in the middle of it all. Secondly, it gives him a chance to stand back and realize that his misery is his - perpetuated by him and him alone.
Keep up the great work! I know its rough and gut-wrenching. But you've made it 90 days! Woo-hoo! We should give you a chip...a survival chip! Keep working on you and taking good care of your kiddos.
Peace,
~T
He is grouchy most of the time, always says he is having a rough day. Part of me wants to scream "see, that's life! It wasn't just me that made yor life miserable! Being apart from me doesn't fix everything!"
When you first came here - we really insisted you leave him alone and let him deal with his own life for a while. I think the quote above is a good example of why. First of all - the space will allow you to clear your head and see things you probably didn't see before when your face was stuck right in the middle of it all. Secondly, it gives him a chance to stand back and realize that his misery is his - perpetuated by him and him alone.
Keep up the great work! I know its rough and gut-wrenching. But you've made it 90 days! Woo-hoo! We should give you a chip...a survival chip! Keep working on you and taking good care of your kiddos.
Peace,
~T
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 25
These are 3 of my FAVORITE paragraphs from "Getting Them Sober", I HIGHLY recommend picking it up as I'm going through something similar.
"How should you act if he gets sober? Certainly you should not become scared of losing him! Remember: if he chooses to treat only one-third of the disease - the physical addiction - instead of his whole disease - the mental and spiritual parts as well, the problems that make him selfish and rotten to his loved ones - then he is the one who will suffer. He is the one who is playing Russian roulette with his life. A person can't go on for long, treating only one-third of the disease of alcoholism, and stay sober. He can be dry for a time, yes. But sober for life? He must learn to change his whole way of treating his family; that's part of his sobriety program."
"You have nothing to lose. If he not only gets rid of the booze, but of that rotten behavior - you've got a nice, regular husband! But if he chooses to just get rid of the booze and continues to threaten you with abandonment - its his loss - not only of you, but maybe of his life."
"If he threatens by saying that you'd better "shape up" and accept his behavior just because he's not drinking any more, then he's not sober: he's just dry. All he's done is remove the booze. True sobriety does not behave like that. Sober people are sane people. They don't threaten their families with abandonment just because they have stopped drinking. As a matter of fact, they do just the opposite; they are so grateful to their families for sticking with them that they try very hard to make amends to them for all the grief of past years. Why do you believe these threats are anything but sick? Because you have lived with his sickness, his distortions of reality for so long, that you have come to believe them as truth."
"How should you act if he gets sober? Certainly you should not become scared of losing him! Remember: if he chooses to treat only one-third of the disease - the physical addiction - instead of his whole disease - the mental and spiritual parts as well, the problems that make him selfish and rotten to his loved ones - then he is the one who will suffer. He is the one who is playing Russian roulette with his life. A person can't go on for long, treating only one-third of the disease of alcoholism, and stay sober. He can be dry for a time, yes. But sober for life? He must learn to change his whole way of treating his family; that's part of his sobriety program."
"You have nothing to lose. If he not only gets rid of the booze, but of that rotten behavior - you've got a nice, regular husband! But if he chooses to just get rid of the booze and continues to threaten you with abandonment - its his loss - not only of you, but maybe of his life."
"If he threatens by saying that you'd better "shape up" and accept his behavior just because he's not drinking any more, then he's not sober: he's just dry. All he's done is remove the booze. True sobriety does not behave like that. Sober people are sane people. They don't threaten their families with abandonment just because they have stopped drinking. As a matter of fact, they do just the opposite; they are so grateful to their families for sticking with them that they try very hard to make amends to them for all the grief of past years. Why do you believe these threats are anything but sick? Because you have lived with his sickness, his distortions of reality for so long, that you have come to believe them as truth."
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Join Date: Feb 2013
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Justshy...you are my hero, I want to be like you when I grow up...
I think your handling it amazingly..Your story is almost identical to mine, seriously, only its been 3yrs sober for mine. Im not nearly as far in recovery as you are. awesome job and thanks for posting. I needed to read this today.
I think your handling it amazingly..Your story is almost identical to mine, seriously, only its been 3yrs sober for mine. Im not nearly as far in recovery as you are. awesome job and thanks for posting. I needed to read this today.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Illinois
Posts: 94
Wow! Justshy, your post put words to what I've been feeling for sooooo long. My AH has only just entered rehab/detox yesterday, but I've been living with his excuses and the "blame game" for 13 years. I'm new to all of this, and I guess what I'm trying to say is I am inspired by you. I have felt so alone, but reading your story makes me feel like maybe I can be stronger too.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by Justshy 
So, I guess because it "looks" like he is doing everything right, I assumed that it must be ME who is doing something wrong. The "old" me would want to immediately write a nice long email explaining all of this to him to "show" him that he needs to "recover" more or differently or whatever...but the new improved me knows the correct thing to do is be patient and hope/pray that he eventually figures it out on his own...and even if he doesn't...not my problem. Wow, that sounds good, now if I can just actually feel that way!��
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: gold coast
Posts: 101
If you were the perfect wife (TV show Brady bunch maybe) he still would have dprunk. Just another excuse to not face the truth and there guilt. Beware he will relapse with that attitude. Forget what he quacks and put yourself first you are worth it and maybe one day you will find some one who appreciates you for you., all faults and all. We are only human
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dear justshy---you are doing fine. Remember, 90days is a very short time for his recovery as well as yours!!
Thank your lucky stars that you are not living with him in the same house!!
Please find out in alanon how to DETACH from him more. He is quacking at you!!
sincerely, dandylion
Thank your lucky stars that you are not living with him in the same house!!
Please find out in alanon how to DETACH from him more. He is quacking at you!!
sincerely, dandylion
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