AW and the cats away game.
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 25
AW and the cats away game.
My AW just returned from a business trip. She doesn’t take many. Her going on the trip was large personal hurdle to my codie issues for a few reasons. A) the guy that she was going to meet has been openly flirtations in his communications and is a known partier B) she, 2 weeks ago agreed to stop drinking and start a program with the understanding that our marriage and family wellbeing were on the line.
I had the “feeling” that she would take the trip as an opportunity to do some partying. It was something about the spring in her step when she was preparing to leave perhaps. We discussed it briefly in a stressed conversation where she first asked, how I felt about her having some drinks? but where said she finally volunteer she was not going to drink. It was a single night trip. The next night she returned home at 11PM fresh off the airplane and then to bed. I had to leave our bed because of the reek of booze that was (I believe) exfoliating from the night before. I did not engage her and left to sleep in another room.
The next day – I calmly stated that she had not lived up to her commitments. She denies drinking at all. The ensuing conversation was a series of deflections from her including you’re my judge, your crazy, I can’t talk with you because I don’t trust you, but I can talk to others. It was the same spin. To me, the situation is more lies and deceit regarding booze and considering the matters of flirtations guy… it causes more questions about the trust in our marriage fidelity.
I don’t know that she was drinking. Every bone in my sadly codie enhanced body says she was, and it was a lot. But I did not see her drunk. She says she wasn’t and is holding to that point; albeit loosely. She committed to stop drinking 2 weeks ago with the ear marks of sincerity and took some good initial steps. She committed to getting in a program and has found the one she wants. Oddly it does not have local groups (???) and she has also not started going yet.
If I am wrong about her drinking then I am hurting her recovery efforts by not supporting or trusting her actions. (This sounds pathetic as I write it…)
If I am right – well, boundaries etc are in play.
SO - all that to get to this question – do I press for clarity on the matter of IF she was drunk/drinking or unfaithful to know if a boundary was broken? Or chalk this instance up as a grey occurrence and see what happens next with her pursuit of a program?
The little codie on my shoulder says plan she is not really sincere about her plans for recovery and to for this behavior from her every time she or I go out of town and that she is playing the cats away, out of sight out of mind game with her drinking…?
There is more in my brain on this but I believe this is enough. Please smack me back into play and off this coaster.
Sincerely,
PS
I had the “feeling” that she would take the trip as an opportunity to do some partying. It was something about the spring in her step when she was preparing to leave perhaps. We discussed it briefly in a stressed conversation where she first asked, how I felt about her having some drinks? but where said she finally volunteer she was not going to drink. It was a single night trip. The next night she returned home at 11PM fresh off the airplane and then to bed. I had to leave our bed because of the reek of booze that was (I believe) exfoliating from the night before. I did not engage her and left to sleep in another room.
The next day – I calmly stated that she had not lived up to her commitments. She denies drinking at all. The ensuing conversation was a series of deflections from her including you’re my judge, your crazy, I can’t talk with you because I don’t trust you, but I can talk to others. It was the same spin. To me, the situation is more lies and deceit regarding booze and considering the matters of flirtations guy… it causes more questions about the trust in our marriage fidelity.
I don’t know that she was drinking. Every bone in my sadly codie enhanced body says she was, and it was a lot. But I did not see her drunk. She says she wasn’t and is holding to that point; albeit loosely. She committed to stop drinking 2 weeks ago with the ear marks of sincerity and took some good initial steps. She committed to getting in a program and has found the one she wants. Oddly it does not have local groups (???) and she has also not started going yet.
If I am wrong about her drinking then I am hurting her recovery efforts by not supporting or trusting her actions. (This sounds pathetic as I write it…)
If I am right – well, boundaries etc are in play.
SO - all that to get to this question – do I press for clarity on the matter of IF she was drunk/drinking or unfaithful to know if a boundary was broken? Or chalk this instance up as a grey occurrence and see what happens next with her pursuit of a program?
The little codie on my shoulder says plan she is not really sincere about her plans for recovery and to for this behavior from her every time she or I go out of town and that she is playing the cats away, out of sight out of mind game with her drinking…?
There is more in my brain on this but I believe this is enough. Please smack me back into play and off this coaster.
Sincerely,
PS
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
It doesn't matter, in your heart you believe she drank.
And there is a 99 percent chance it wasn't her last time.
My reaction to her saying she can't talk to you because she doesn't trust you , is, you don't trust her. So the feeling is mutual.
I don't thing bringing up again will get you much more, just more frustated , angry, and hurt.
I'm sorry you are dealing with all of this.
Katie
And there is a 99 percent chance it wasn't her last time.
My reaction to her saying she can't talk to you because she doesn't trust you , is, you don't trust her. So the feeling is mutual.
I don't thing bringing up again will get you much more, just more frustated , angry, and hurt.
I'm sorry you are dealing with all of this.
Katie
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Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
Whenever I suspected my BF, he would tell me I was crazy. He had me feeling, in the moment, that maybe I was. Maybe I was overreacting. But it would turn out, EVERY time, that I was right in my suspicions. So I learned to trust my gut on this stuff. The A will make us feel crazy if we let them. If I thought I smelled alcohol, it's because I always did.
If you're not sure, then just put this one to rest and continue to observe behaviors. More will be revealed.....
If you're not sure, then just put this one to rest and continue to observe behaviors. More will be revealed.....
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 585
Originally Posted by Recovering2 
Whenever I suspected my BF, he would tell me I was crazy. He had me feeling, in the moment, that maybe I was. Maybe I was overreacting. But it would turn out, EVERY time, that I was right in my suspicions. So I learned to trust my gut on this stuff. The A will make us feel crazy if we let them. If I thought I smelled alcohol, it's because I always did.
If you're not sure, then just put this one to rest and continue to observe behaviors. More will be revealed.....
If you're not sure, then just put this one to rest and continue to observe behaviors. More will be revealed.....
If she *was* drinking, I've learned that expecting an actively-drinking alcoholic to tell the truth is expecting too much. I, too, was made to feel like I was nutso and paranoid - "No, that's an old bottle, I don't know where that came from; no, I didn't drink; etc." I have finally stopped looking for bottles and stopped asking questions I may not want to know the answer to. My nose smells what it smells, and my eyes see what they see. If you're truly doubtful and uncertain whether she drank, then let her next actions speak rather than her words.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 211
I can only add here after all the good points above that when I went to leave my AH, and he got serious about not drinking, AA etc, he told me that all the times he told me he was not drinking, he really was. That he was never ever sober since we met. Just my experience. Listen to your gut...it's usually right. Hang in there. Tough spot to be in.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 458
When I "knew," but didn't really have proof, it was truly crazy making. If she wouldn't admit to being drunk (which she never does), I would chalk it up to her being a miracle of medical science- being able to recover from her "mini-strokes" so efficiently.
Many years ago, when she was at a bottom, she came clean to me about many things (specific) that I always wondered about. It gave me a sense of tremendous freedom. Even though many of the things were painful for me to hear, as sick as this may be, it was one of the times I felt closest to her.
Wouldn't it be nice if they would just be truthful? Like, "yes, I drank a liter of Vodka. So what."
Many years ago, when she was at a bottom, she came clean to me about many things (specific) that I always wondered about. It gave me a sense of tremendous freedom. Even though many of the things were painful for me to hear, as sick as this may be, it was one of the times I felt closest to her.
Wouldn't it be nice if they would just be truthful? Like, "yes, I drank a liter of Vodka. So what."
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Trust your gut. You left the room because she reeked of alcohol. That's enough truth for your instincts. You know.
Will talking with her again give you a different result?
Has repeating a conversation with your alcoholic produced a different result the second, third, or fourth time in the past?
If you are looking for validation from an alcoholic, that's like going to the hardware store and asking for fresh baked bread.
Lets go back a few days. Prior to this business trip. She agreed to stop drinking and start a program of recovery. She has selected a program, but not started attending. Is there a time frame for her to start a program?
Your wife is an alcoholic. She will protect her addiction at all cost. She will find every imaginable loop hole to protect her addiction. She has demonstrated this by selecting a program, but she has not actually started. She has done this by saying she will stop drinking, but she is only stopping when she is around you.
For every loop hole she finds, you will fill a little bit crazier for not having anticipated the twisted thinking of an active alcoholic.
You didn't cause her to become an alcoholic,
You can't control her alcoholism,
and You won't be able to cure her addiction.
Will talking with her again give you a different result?
Has repeating a conversation with your alcoholic produced a different result the second, third, or fourth time in the past?
If you are looking for validation from an alcoholic, that's like going to the hardware store and asking for fresh baked bread.
Lets go back a few days. Prior to this business trip. She agreed to stop drinking and start a program of recovery. She has selected a program, but not started attending. Is there a time frame for her to start a program?
Your wife is an alcoholic. She will protect her addiction at all cost. She will find every imaginable loop hole to protect her addiction. She has demonstrated this by selecting a program, but she has not actually started. She has done this by saying she will stop drinking, but she is only stopping when she is around you.
For every loop hole she finds, you will fill a little bit crazier for not having anticipated the twisted thinking of an active alcoholic.
You didn't cause her to become an alcoholic,
You can't control her alcoholism,
and You won't be able to cure her addiction.
Member
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Land of Cotton
Posts: 3,433
Originally Posted by Recovering2
If you're not sure, then just put this one to rest and continue to observe behaviors. More will be revealed.....
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
LOL,
My second husband swore that what I was smelling on his breath were apples. Yup, APPLES. Two days later I caught him quickly hiding a glass of wine under a chair when I came into the room.
Now this was making me nuts--where was the wine? Well, of COURSE it was in the trunk of his car (we lived on the seventh floor of a high rise--how he smuggled one glass of wine up to the apartment is still a mystery).
Of course, I shouldn't have snooped, but what is amazing to me, looking back now, is that for much of the time he was supposedly in recovery, and even when we got married, I kept having those nagging doubts--which of course all turned out to be true. My wanting to believe he was recovering was so strong I kept pushing all the evidence to the contrary out of my mind.
Trust me--if she reeked of booze she was drinking. She will NOT be honest or truthful about it.
I'm really curious what "program" she is supposedly interested in--care to share? Or has she told you?
Incidentally, noticing your wife has been drinking, and doubting her sincerity about her intention to give up drinking isn't a "codie" trait. It's called being realistic and relying upon the evidence in front of you.
My second husband swore that what I was smelling on his breath were apples. Yup, APPLES. Two days later I caught him quickly hiding a glass of wine under a chair when I came into the room.
Now this was making me nuts--where was the wine? Well, of COURSE it was in the trunk of his car (we lived on the seventh floor of a high rise--how he smuggled one glass of wine up to the apartment is still a mystery).
Of course, I shouldn't have snooped, but what is amazing to me, looking back now, is that for much of the time he was supposedly in recovery, and even when we got married, I kept having those nagging doubts--which of course all turned out to be true. My wanting to believe he was recovering was so strong I kept pushing all the evidence to the contrary out of my mind.
Trust me--if she reeked of booze she was drinking. She will NOT be honest or truthful about it.
I'm really curious what "program" she is supposedly interested in--care to share? Or has she told you?
Incidentally, noticing your wife has been drinking, and doubting her sincerity about her intention to give up drinking isn't a "codie" trait. It's called being realistic and relying upon the evidence in front of you.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
When RAH relapsed last year I caught the whiff a couple of times masked by minty mouthwash. I would ask, he would deny. He would bring the bottle out showing that it had alcohol in it (my fault for buying as "I should have been sure it was the non alcohol kind).
I went to far as on more than one occasion to gargle and then blow in a bag or my hand and see if it smelled like what I was smelling on him. Maybe, then yes, then no. It was insanity for sure to try and "remember" a smell.
He got smarter. Believe it or not grape gatorade masks the smell but not the behavior.
He was drinking, I wasn't crazy, and neither are you.
I went to far as on more than one occasion to gargle and then blow in a bag or my hand and see if it smelled like what I was smelling on him. Maybe, then yes, then no. It was insanity for sure to try and "remember" a smell.
He got smarter. Believe it or not grape gatorade masks the smell but not the behavior.
He was drinking, I wasn't crazy, and neither are you.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by Pelican
Trust your gut. You left the room because she reeked of alcohol. That's enough truth for your instincts. You know.
Will talking with her again give you a different result?
Has repeating a conversation with your alcoholic produced a different result the second, third, or fourth time in the past?
If you are looking for validation from an alcoholic, that's like going to the hardware store and asking for fresh baked bread.
Lets go back a few days. Prior to this business trip. She agreed to stop drinking and start a program of recovery. She has selected a program, but not started attending. Is there a time frame for her to start a program?
Your wife is an alcoholic. She will protect her addiction at all cost. She will find every imaginable loop hole to protect her addiction. She has demonstrated this by selecting a program, but she has not actually started. She has done this by saying she will stop drinking, but she is only stopping when she is around you.
For every loop hole she finds, you will fill a little bit crazier for not having anticipated the twisted thinking of an active alcoholic.
You didn't cause her to become an alcoholic,
You can't control her alcoholism,
and You won't be able to cure her addiction.
Will talking with her again give you a different result?
Has repeating a conversation with your alcoholic produced a different result the second, third, or fourth time in the past?
If you are looking for validation from an alcoholic, that's like going to the hardware store and asking for fresh baked bread.
Lets go back a few days. Prior to this business trip. She agreed to stop drinking and start a program of recovery. She has selected a program, but not started attending. Is there a time frame for her to start a program?
Your wife is an alcoholic. She will protect her addiction at all cost. She will find every imaginable loop hole to protect her addiction. She has demonstrated this by selecting a program, but she has not actually started. She has done this by saying she will stop drinking, but she is only stopping when she is around you.
For every loop hole she finds, you will fill a little bit crazier for not having anticipated the twisted thinking of an active alcoholic.
You didn't cause her to become an alcoholic,
You can't control her alcoholism,
and You won't be able to cure her addiction.
So, PS, you knew before hand this was not going to be good. You know now it wasn't good. What are you going to do now?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 25
TuffGirl – you have asked a perfect question that I am pondering deeply. I believe she was sincere in her desire to stop drinking and start a program. It is likely that she did not drink for 17 days and that she relapsed as part of her old pattern. I am in a better place for processing her issues but not so much the hurt caused by the betrayals. There is not a good place to put that other than the trash can alongside the relationship and marriage. Honestly, I would not tolerate this behavior from anyone else in my life and would absolutely leave them behind. So – why not bailout.. my child is the main reason. But beyond that giving every hope to finding a way to keep family together– IF she was sincere to begin with AND this was a relapse AND she gets back on the horse. Yeah yeah.. If a frog had wings… I can dream right. Small smile.
Short answer – I wanna see where she goes next I guess. If she makes it to rehab or the bar…. I am bending a little (reed/wind) but with eyes wide open.
Thanks all for the supportive comments and guidance.
PS
Short answer – I wanna see where she goes next I guess. If she makes it to rehab or the bar…. I am bending a little (reed/wind) but with eyes wide open.
Thanks all for the supportive comments and guidance.
PS
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: PA
Posts: 25
Well, as many said, the answer was waiting and more would be revealed, it was – she chose to drink. In fact, she was driving drunk today back from a golf outing. This is on top of a weekend rum bender because she was "stressed out". An interesting twist is that she has even denied ever agreeing to stop drinking and start a program at all. That was a bald faced shocker considering the length of conversations we had about it at the time and what a breakthrough I thought it was. Bad on me for offering more trust right... I will get it sooner or later.
She went, I think, 14 days without drinking. During that time she pointed out that she did not have any of the major withdrawal symptoms and that she felt great and in control. She is not convinced she is an A and thinks this is just my concocted story to control to drag her down. She wants me to be fine with her drinking and, “to be the fun husband I used to be when we were married.” It is incredible that she does not have any understanding of the damage that her drinking and lying does or has done to our friendship. It is madness.
She is back to where we began, perhaps drinking a little less but things are worse because we have talked about how codependency complicates the situation and how we both have a path to sobriety. She has begun to weave that into her manipulations and gouges. The good news is it is kind of obvious, the bad is it is just as hurtful. I have every desire but very little hope that our friendship can be put right. I am quite certain that she will need to lose everything and bottom out completely before realizing the depth of her addiction.
Sorry just to plop this out there – I am treading water currently.
Cheers, PS
She went, I think, 14 days without drinking. During that time she pointed out that she did not have any of the major withdrawal symptoms and that she felt great and in control. She is not convinced she is an A and thinks this is just my concocted story to control to drag her down. She wants me to be fine with her drinking and, “to be the fun husband I used to be when we were married.” It is incredible that she does not have any understanding of the damage that her drinking and lying does or has done to our friendship. It is madness.
She is back to where we began, perhaps drinking a little less but things are worse because we have talked about how codependency complicates the situation and how we both have a path to sobriety. She has begun to weave that into her manipulations and gouges. The good news is it is kind of obvious, the bad is it is just as hurtful. I have every desire but very little hope that our friendship can be put right. I am quite certain that she will need to lose everything and bottom out completely before realizing the depth of her addiction.
Sorry just to plop this out there – I am treading water currently.
Cheers, PS
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 458
I am quite certain that she will need to lose everything and bottom out completely before realizing the depth of her addiction
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