Seduction
 

Is it common for some alchoholics to take on a really seductive voice and mannerisms when drinking? Kind of like an overly attentive and what can I do for you tone and super complimentary.

What is that? Some kind of manipulation? Because boy did I fall for it. I was never in the position to know this person had been drinking I thought it was usually at night and once or month or so, but now I remember that VOICE and I recognize it and it makes me feel sick that I could be so sadly gullible.

~LG

Yes.
That was my experience with my alcoholic ex-husband.

When he drank he turned on the charm and became more amorous. Since this is a progressive disease, it got worse and he got sloppy. (picture the charm with a slurrrr)

When I once felt flattered I now feel panicky. Was I putting myself in danger? What make us such easy targets. Aren't our instincts suppose to protect us? How do we fall for it so damn easily?

Well let's see...

With my maternal grandmother it became her pulling one of us grandkids to her in a big, sloppy hug and kiss and telling us how much she 'loved us'.

With my former hairdresser, it was how much he 'loved me' when I called to make an appointment (which I later cancelled because having a drunk person cut your hair is not pretty).

With a former alcoholic frat boy friend of mine, it was all lovey-dovey, friendly, overly emotional weepy confession time, apparently.

Yeah, it seems to bring out the bad side of what should be a good thing. Just my experience, though.

How do ever get your ability to trust back? When so many people albeit unknowingly abuse it. My "friend" had me fooled for almost 20 years. There was so much I didnt know. Learning the truth has shaken my foundation to the core. Im rebuilding but I feel very, wary now and I don't like that. I used to be very positive and encouraging.

LG

Dear Lettingonow, maybe being skeptical of certain behaviors in others is not a bad thing---especially, now, that you are becoming more aware of yourself.

I don't know you, of course, but---is it possible that that type of flattery is one of your buttons? Sort of an Achilles heel? Sometimes we are quite eager to believe or "hear" something that we want to hear. I know I do. I think we all have our magic buttons.

As you come to understand yourself more and become aware of your own patterns, you will become able to "trust" yourself more---and, protect yourself more.

The further you get into recovery, I predict that you will become more comfortable in your own skin.

sincerely, dandylion

oh yes, and I don't have to picture the charm with a slur, I've seen it many times. He often became very "oh, what can I do for you?!" Um, nothing, thanks. It lessened as my DH's alcoholism progressed, too.

Thank you. Yes it probably was and is/maybe its why it hurts so acutely to let go of it. I was getting something out of that relationship that shattered me to lose. I remember sometimes going over there and when I didn't get what I was looking for, maybe he was sober? I'd go home feeling very glum and depressed. I'd miss that and feel confused and hurt. I blamed myself for being "annoying". Maybe he felt an obligation and irritation on those days that I was visiting to have MY needs met. I guess it makes sense. Crazy how you can be so unaware sometimes. Or so driven by a need that you can't see clearly what your actions mean.

It was a like crap shoot really, those visits. I never knew what I was going to get when and yet I was addicted to doing it, because I felt so amazing when I'd get the conversation and validation and (love?) and I would offer (almost) anything in return for it. Sometimes I felt guilty about my compulsion to go over there. I think I knew instinctively that I was doing something "wrong" or at least I knew it was concerning that I couldn't seem to stop myself.

Im sorry for anyone else who is going through this kind of torment and I wonder if it's similar to what the alchoholics feel when they are "quitting". You might as well be letting go of air, or food or water. It hurts that much.

LG

I think I would look at myself, and my behaviors. What compelled me to go over there to be with him?
That he was a smooth talker sometimes, and gave you attention, and then other times withheld the type of attention you wanted...how come, for so long, you desired this relationship?
The thing is to nail our own needy and unhealthy behaviors...offering "almost anything"
sounds to me like you made a trade...willingly and knowingly....it was an agreement between the two of you and somewhere along the line the deal was deemed no longer fair or maybe no longer beneficial...we can willingly make a deal with the devil sometimes you know...we have to turn the attention back to critiquing our own behavior, and focusing less on theirs is the way to do it.
So if you put aside that he was a smooth talker, and examine YOU as you were driving over there, what were you chasing and was it healthy? A question for yourself to answer, privately to yourself if you want.

Thank you for your honest replies. I hope I didnt give the wrong impression with the "almost anything" comment. I just meant I loved these friends so much I would have risked my life to save them from harm.

I thought a lot about what you said BlueSkies. Honestly as far as I saw it we had a close friendship. This man encouraged me to start my own business of provided a model a sort for it almost two decades ago. I looked up to him as a colleague. I'd been a 16yr old runaway just surviving on my own then became newly married at and was starting a new life. I knew that my friend had a stressful life, but he acted a stand up man and I was friends with his wife and knew his children and grandchildren and have watched them grow up. They have watched ME grow up. I was 21 when I moved here and Im going on 40 now.

Yet there was another side that I didnt fully understand. One that they were remarkably good at hiding and explaining away. I saw hints of it, but I loved them and felt that they had good hearts and wanted to see them conquer their personal challenges, as we all have, and live happy lives. Sometimes I talked to my husband if he didnt seem happy to see me and he would remind me that they had their own problems and it probably wasnt about me. Perhaps he suspected more than I did. I can be pathetically naive. I was always bringing gifts and we traded services more times than I can count. I met many wonderful people through them and I truly felt LUCKY to be THEIR friend. Now I feel like it's the opposite. Like I was taken for a ride and partly advantage of.

Thats what I mean about feeling wary. When you love people you want to think the best of them. As a loyal friend you aren't going bail at the first hint of problems in my book. Do you guys think they took advantage of that with me? Do they do it knowlingly? Or is it the disease?

Thats the hardest part of disengaging for me is the thought that Im giving up on someone. Its just the opposite of everything I've ever believed. I am a fiercely loyal friend and proud of it. The sad thing is they are not the only ones I have this kind of friendship with and am going through this 360*. I guess I was attracted to this and they to me. And I didnt give up on anyone until now. I feel guilty. I have new healthier friends now but underneath it all feels kind of empty because of the loss of the old ones. When do you start to feel better?

~LG

OK, I'd forgotten what your back story is--that these people are neighbors with whom you had felt very close and now they are acting "differently" toward you.

What I never got, though, was what makes you conclude that they have alcohol issues. You mentioned seeing beers, you mentioned their talking about not drinking.

Whatever their issues are/may be, it appears they don't care to share those issues with you right now. Maybe they are having marriage problems, or other worries, as your husband suggested.

Here's the deal, though, you can't MAKE someone confide in you or allow you to "help" them or support them, even if you would like to. These people presumably know that you care about them. If they want your help or support, I'm sure they know they can ask for it.

Sometimes relationships between people change, for no reason except that people's lives change. I've had good friends simply grow away from me--or I from them. It doesn't mean I didn't/don't care about them or their happiness, just that our lives have changed and the relationship doesn't have the same place that it once did. Sometimes that can be sad--especially when one person moves on and the other one doesn't understand why.

Still, it is what it is, and the sooner you can get to work on accepting the situation, the less it will hurt. Nothing you have said so far suggests that they were maliciously using you. Maybe they were, maybe they simply felt closer to you then than they do now. Either way, you must work on getting past obsessing over the relationship--that can keep you stuck in unhappiness for a very long time.

Try making some new friends, too--it can be a refreshing new thing to try. Maybe some new activities, pursue some new interests. You can still be cordial and friendly with these people next door without being intimately involved in their lives.

Update on this thread. Unfortunately the relationship has now turned contentious. But you were right about me getting more confident. The braver I have become the more they dislike me. I was way too accommodating way to desperate for friends at any cost. I knew their was alcohol abuse and I accepted and went along with it. I just didn't know to what extent. I know now what the signs are and that ill never accept that kind of sick invitation again. Their lives have fallen apart and despite everything it's been heartbreaking to watch. I feel partly responsible. Professionally there still do quite well. What an weird and crazy lifestyle. I'm so grateful that my life is better. It's a shame that I had to proverbially crucify myself at their alter of self destruction but boy did I learn one unforgettable lesson. Mind your own f'ing business. People are what they want to be and it's not up to me to save them. Who did I think I was??

((((hugs))))

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone. I am not sure I will ever trust again (myself or others). Pretty sad.

Oh, and the amorous/seductive tone - don't have any experience with that. It was full blown rage and anger in my case.

On seduction & flattery: boy-howdy, do I fall for that. Yup. (Funny though, when "you are the love of my life" is said nearly incoherently in the middle of a 2 week bender, it starts to lose it's appeal. Even to me. *sigh*)

I go back and forth, trusting myself, and then crumbling. But it is still early in my recovery. So I am trying to be gentle with myself. I hope you can be too, lyssy and lettingonow! We deserve it.

My AH is not nearly as subtle as using a seductive tone of voice. After bugging the crap out of me for money and then going out until the wee hours of the morning, coming home drunk and high, he usually wakes me up out of a sound sleep and says "wanna have sex?" Gee, I really feel in the mood then, I tell ya! I then have to make sure in the morning that the browsing history in the computer is cleared of all porn sites before the kids use the computer.

Thank you Spiderqueen Im 6 months into Al Anon. Be ready for setbacks. I had one this week I was ready to kill 'em all lol but stick with it. It's really helps ;0)

There really nothing attractive about a stupid ass drunk male and they'd probably get laid more of they are sober dumbasses. (Pardon me because I am still in rant mode).