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HopefulmomtoD 03-14-2013 04:05 PM

I'm surprised they will still take him at IOP. Last year, my son had intake for IOP, tested positive for alcohol and they told him they would not take him. Maybe its because he lied? But, I got the impression it was because he drank period. (He got referred to IOP following a week detox stay. He was home all of two days before his first IOP session and relapsed)

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 04:12 PM


Originally Posted by HopefulmomtoD (Post 3862357)
I'm surprised they will still take him at IOP. Last year, my son had intake for IOP, tested positive for alcohol and they told him they would not take him. Maybe its because he lied? But, I got the impression it was because he drank period. (He got referred to IOP following a week detox stay. He was home all of two days before his first IOP session and relapsed)

Well, I don't think they would want him there WHILE drunk. I know they did testing when clients came back to the rehab facility after passes to go into the outside world, but not sure if they do "drops" as they call them for alcohol at his IOP if he's already enrolled. He's gone through intake with rehab, but not sure if he had to do an intake when he started the IOP program last week - it's at the same facility as his rehab. I really don't know, but good question.

HopefulmomtoD 03-14-2013 04:14 PM

He wasn't drunk. In fact, I think he blew clean, but his blood or urine proved he had alcohol recently. We left intake thinking he was starting in a couple of days, but they called once the labs came back and said he could not come without another detox- I think I am remembering it correctly. (There have been quite a few rehabs/hospitalizations ... unfortunately. Its hard to keep it all straight!)

LexieCat 03-14-2013 04:20 PM

Now he's going to IOP MONDAY? Great--three more days of nonstop drinking. I doubt he will go on Monday. OK, I've officially changed my opinion about his present commitment to recovery. Someone could have a 2-3 day slip, fall not too far and get busy redoubling their efforts, but the further they slide, the further they slide. This stalling does not look very promising for the immediate future. Not to say he won't get back to it, but it could take days, weeks, or months.

As for his sister, you might suggest SHE check out Al-Anon.

Sorry things are taking this turn. Once an alcoholic picks up a drink, it's a complete crapshoot where it will wind up. I was hoping (as I know you were) that it was just a slip, but it's looking like he's determined to shoot himself in the foot. This is the problem with people who have all that INTELLIGENCE going for them--they have egos and pride to match, and it keeps them from getting humble enough to go back through the doors.

Keep taking good care of YOURSELF--no matter what he does.

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 04:21 PM

And I just talked to his BIL, who was also kinda ticked off that, as he put it, "he lied to my face!" about drinking. Oy. I'm counseling HIM now too on the ways of an alcoholic. Don't take it personal, it's not done AT you, expecting a drinking alcoholic to tell the truth is expecting too much, etc. Anywho, BIL is now considering coming out here to visit. I have no idea whether it would be a good or bad thing for DH for BIL to visit. Personally and selfishly, I could use the company of a not drunk person in the house. In some way, it may help DH to have his BIL here - he looks up to him like a father (again, long story, but short version is that his sister and BIL took him in when he left home at 15), and having him here would maybe help him find the strength to not drink for more than 18-20 hours. I doubt DH would be in good physical shape for a chunk or all of the visit - depending on if/when he stops drinking before this possible visit, BIL may show up at a terribly shaky & sweaty time, or he may be there to watch him descend into shakes & sweats, or he may just see what DH is like in the grip of alcohol. I dunno. I'm conflicted. And part of me kinda wants someone else in the fam to be here to see it so I'm not alone to watch it. Is that selfish or bad of me to think that way?

HopefulmomtoD 03-14-2013 04:26 PM

Gosh, I think if I were you I'd be checking into a hotel for the weekend. UGH. I couldn't stand to be around him killing himself. How big is your condo? Pretty hard to detach when they are right in your face.

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 04:31 PM


Originally Posted by LexieCat (Post 3862382)
Now he's going to IOP MONDAY? Great--three more days of nonstop drinking. I doubt he will go on Monday. OK, I've officially changed my opinion about his present commitment to recovery. Someone could have a 2-3 day slip, fall not too far and get busy redoubling their efforts, but the further they slide, the further they slide. This stalling does not look very promising for the immediate future. Not to say he won't get back to it, but it could take days, weeks, or months.

Yeah, not looking terribly hopeful right now at all for the immediate future. He just keeps sliding and spiraling deeper and deeper. For his own sake, I do hope he does get back to it.


Originally Posted by LexieCat (Post 3862382)
As for his sister, you might suggest SHE check out Al-Anon.

I think I will. She's not faith-y either, but I think she could use some support and guidance and insight. She's referred to "recidivism" rates after rehab being high & whatnot...but she's not calling it what it is - relapsing into drinking. She's hurt and confused and doesn't know where to turn. Believe me, I know that feeling!!


Originally Posted by LexieCat (Post 3862382)
Sorry things are taking this turn. Once an alcoholic picks up a drink, it's a complete crapshoot where it will wind up. I was hoping (as I know you were) that it was just a slip, but it's looking like he's determined to shoot himself in the foot. This is the problem with people who have all that INTELLIGENCE going for them--they have egos and pride to match, and it keeps them from getting humble enough to go back through the doors.

Keep taking good care of YOURSELF--no matter what he does.

I'm sorry, too. He's hellbent on self-destruction, one minute saying he wants to get better so badly and the next succumbing to it. And I am going to keep taking care of myself. Going to call my nephew in a bit to wish him a happy birthday (party was this last weekend but today's the actual day), make some dinner, watch some TV, have some me time. I'm spent from these last couple days. I can't imagine what I would feel like right now if I didn't take time for myself this past weekend to recharge and unplug from this insanity. Oh, and I'm going to sit down and look at finances tonight - I put a small starter amount of money into the new "just in case" account, but I want to make a plan to actually *fund* the fund and move some money in there.

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 04:33 PM


Originally Posted by HopefulmomtoD (Post 3862391)
Gosh, I think if I were you I'd be checking into a hotel for the weekend. UGH. I couldn't stand to be around him killing himself. How big is your condo? Pretty hard to detach when they are right in your face.

It's not off the table. The condo is about 1100 SF, so not tiny but not big enough to make it easy to get away and detach some.

LexieCat 03-14-2013 04:53 PM

I think I'd stay out of the relationship between your husband and his family. You don't have to protect either party from the other. As for whether your brother-in-law comes to visit, I would make that decision based on how YOU feel--if you think it might help you, let him come. If not, don't. Don't decide based on what's "best" for your husband. Right now he is a liability in your household--I think your vote counts more at this point.

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 05:24 PM


Originally Posted by LexieCat (Post 3862427)
I think I'd stay out of the relationship between your husband and his family. You don't have to protect either party from the other. As for whether your brother-in-law comes to visit, I would make that decision based on how YOU feel--if you think it might help you, let him come. If not, don't. Don't decide based on what's "best" for your husband. Right now he is a liability in your household--I think your vote counts more at this point.

Thank you, I needed that. I think I need a reminder to be selfish every now and again. And by "every now and again" I mean constantly. ;)

It's so hard to stay out of things with his family. They're at a distance and they don't have a front seat to what's going on here, which is good and bad. They don't get to feel what I feel and see what I see, so they're somewhat clueless as to what's really going on. DH isn't entirely forthcoming with them either when he's not sober.

I would certainly enjoy the company of BIL. He's a great guy on so many levels. I feel he is ill-equipped to deal with this in a lot of ways...but hell, I'm ill-equipped to deal with all this too, and he's a big boy and can take care of himself and make his own decisions as to whether he wants to come. It may be both good and bad for ME for him to visit, but I do want to give it a shot and like I said, it would be good to have someone here who I'm close to who I can guarantee will NOT be drunk. I sure could use some sober companionship. And if DH decides to drink while he's here, then me and the BIL can just go do some fun stuff together.

It's not set it stone just yet, he hasn't bought tix.

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 06:03 PM

I got sidetracked by a phone call from my parents to do some land research for them - I mentioned this in another thread somewhere, but they had me research HUNDREDS of parcels of land in the past (all in a foreign language that I don't understand, so fun!), and they had juuuuust a couple (i.e., 20+ more) that they wanted to confirm or look up more info on, ugh. I had to forcefully push my parents off the phone so that I could call my nephew to wish him a happy birthday before his bedtime! ACK! What burns my buns is that my parents barely even said "hey how are YOU" & mom just went into how terrible and stressed she is and how she's not feeling well and how she needed me to look up more stuff for her. Um, okay, hi, I'm doing great, thanks for not asking. Seriously, do I have doormat written on my forehead? (Wait, don't answer that, I don't want to know...and if it's there, I'm pretty sure I may have written it myself.)

Anywho, so DH has decided to make dinner since I got sidetracked by the call from my parents and the call to my nephew. Him making dinner usually ends in disaster when he's sober let alone when he's been drinking. He browned and spiced some ground turkey, made some "spanish rice" (from a box), and mixed the two together. I'm afeared! Normally, I have a stomach of steel, but here's the true test of my intestinal fortitude. I'm not the praying kind, but um, please pray for me? ;)

LifeRecovery 03-14-2013 07:08 PM

Cecelia-

One of the most important lessons I have learned on this recovery journey

Self-Care does not equal Selfish!

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 07:29 PM

omg, I survived dinner, and it actually wasn't half bad. I also figured that if he was lucid enough to make a passable dinner, he was lucid enough to walk the dog. I told him I'm tired and needed a night off, so he's out walking the dog now as I am sitting here in my comfy jammies. Feels good. Gonna steal off for a few to check out financial stuffs...

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 07:30 PM


Originally Posted by LifeRecovery (Post 3862572)
Cecelia-

One of the most important lessons I have learned on this recovery journey

Self-Care does not equal Selfish!

Thank you, thank you, thank you...I really needed to hear that!

redatlanta 03-14-2013 07:51 PM

Maybe it would be good for BIL to come - might give you some relief for a couple of days. You certainly deserve it.

CeciliaV 03-14-2013 09:10 PM

I took a couple steps to protect myself over the course of the last couple hours. I transferred some money to the just-in-case fund. I'm not sure about legalities of transferring money out of a joint account to an individual account, but I think it would be safe and fair for me to transfer out gift money received from my parents (I believe I have IL laws in my favor here). There's now enough in the fund to get me through a rough spot should I decide I need to get out on the fly and/or to help me carry the bills on my own for at least a couple months should I have to do so (shoring up the difference between my income and the household expenses if I were to stay in the house on my own). I can likely transfer over more - they gifted me money recently that we partially used for mortgage pay-down and refinancing costs, and there's a chunk leftover from that...along with other money gifts from previous years. I'm going to hold off on transferring anything else out for a bit, but I feel better knowing that there's something there if I need it and I can add to it if I need to. I'm considering divvying up our funds overall and getting more financial separation (yours/mine/ours accounts & more CC separation), but I'm not making any drastic moves in that arena right now.

I also locked away my coin & bill collection. There's nothing crazy in the collection...just some older coins & bills that my dad passed on to me - he had a deli for many years and would collect the odd old coin/bill here & there. The collection means more to me sentimentally than it does monetarily. Maybe it's my paranoia, but I am pretty damn sure that there are fewer half dollar and dollar coins now than there were not very long ago. So I locked 'em up in the fire safe. I have a key hidden safely in the house, and I have a key on my own key chain.

I feel partially like a crazy paranoid person taking these steps (especially when I was just barely getting the coins tucked into the fire safe as DH was returning from the dog walk), but these are things I need to do for me just in case.

Recovering2 03-14-2013 09:53 PM

I worry that besides looking after your DH, you're now looking after his family's emotions. I would be limiting my conversations with them. I tried exactly what you're doing with my RABF's adult daughter, it ended up back firing on me big time. I got blamed for sharing with her, and in the end she wasn't able to deal with it and I ended up the bad guy! Just be careful. If BIL wants to visit, that's his decision, but I would stay out of it. The visit may actually worsen your DH's feelings right now and put him on the defense.
I coud be totally off base. Just saying, based on my experience, tread carefully when dealing with family.

Hopeworks 03-15-2013 04:19 AM

Alcoholism is like a rhinoceros in the living room that we all pretend is a coffee table because we so desperately don't want to rock the alcoholic's boat and have them go off on us.

Active addiction is instability and sadly, marriage is a corporate entity legally and you are in the eyes of the law "one person" and jointly responsible for liabilities financial and otherwise.

This is boundary setting at its finest...not the easiest... but it is the smartest route to take.

The conversation (after consulting with a lawyer) is that advise the A that until they come to a place where you are comfortable that they are "recovered" (this is huge debated topic in AA as to whether this possible!) from their disease you are splitting the assets and at least the cash.

You are legally entitled to half as he is. Separate your money and get rid of all joint credit cards. I believe there are some documents you can draw up that can limit future financial liabilities...

heck the best way is to divorce the guy! Remarry him later... if he straightens up.

I am pessimistic today...my XA just relapsed for the hundredth time... sigh.

HopefulmomtoD 03-15-2013 04:28 AM


Originally Posted by Hopeworks (Post 3862997)


I am pessimistic today...my XA just relapsed for the hundredth time... sigh.

What? UGH ... wasn't he doing so well? Stupid, horrible disease

iwillc13 03-15-2013 04:30 AM

Although a certain amount of shame from relapse is expected , the lingering shame can be worse than the act itself. Feel the shame, and let it go!!!! Begin again and learn from the mistake!!!!

redatlanta 03-15-2013 04:51 AM

C - You can do whatever you want with the money in your joint account. It is considered your money if your name is on the account. May I suggest you put your income into your newly opened account and just leave this one open in both your names. It sounds like you are the one who pays the bills and do have to keep a tight reign on husband financially.

I wouldn't mention the new account or suggest (at this time) you discuss splitting your account with husband. The reason is I ASSUME (which one shouldn't) that husband does contribute to your monthly bills. Can you trust that he would manage his money? Seems since you have thought about taking his debit card away that money management is not something he is keen on right now.

Instead build up your other account and transfer money into the old account as needed.

Please note that just because you have an account that is in your name only it is very unlikely that it wouldn't be considered joint asset - 99.9% it would but at least it does give you some safety if you need it.

LexieCat 03-15-2013 05:59 AM

I don't know the property laws in Illinois, but as long as you aren't funneling off the money and hiding it in an offshore account or something you should be fine, I would think. If and when property ever were to be divided, you would be truthful about the money and where it came from, so that isn't the issue. It's more about having ACCESS to money you need at a moment's notice, if you needed it--let's say for a security deposit for an apartment. Legitimate living/moving expenses. You're not planning an exotic vacation or trip to the casinos with it.

JenT1968 03-15-2013 06:09 AM

I feel so tired for you, my ex never went near a rehab, but the big binges on top of the routine alcoholism were particularly stressful. I was in survival mode living from second to second and I didn't keep my barings straight.

getting your own account and putting money in it is very smart, not only does it give you an escape route if necessary, but he cant drink it away. You've not spoken about any friends of your own, I know you do the on-line SMART thing. Have you considered a counsellor for you? (not his - he is there for your H) you need someone in your corner - a space that is entirely about doing what is best for you, figuring out your needs steps to protect yourself etc.

again, locking away things that are sentimentally precious to you is a good step - because right now he is a liability and the only way you can ensure anything is safe is if he doesn't have access to it.

along with that, can I suggest making an appointment with a lawyer to see what position you are in re finances etc: I'm only suggesting that you arm yourself with some information, you don't have to act on that, but it may give you options to consider IF he continues on this path. We none of us can know what will happen in the future, all we can know is that right now, he IS drinking, and there may be some steps you can take to protect yourself from any legal/financial consequences from that - better to be armed with correct knowledge than spinning your head with "what if" scenarios.

Another thing I wish I'd done early on is get away, not just for a weekend, but for a good 2 weeks or so, give myself some space to relax, so that my body and mind could heal away from the stress. Can you and the dog go on holiday for a couple of weeks? stay with a friend/rent a hotel, and during that time have no contact with your H (who you cannot communicate with at the moment anyway because he is so drunk). This would not be abandoning him, or selfish or mean - you do not have to live through this relapse with him, this is HIS relapse, and it would give you both space to reflect, without all the focus being on him and alcohol. Being there with him is very stressful for you, it is VERY hard to detach and recharge that close up to a loved one who is spiralling, it also is doing nothing to help him - he's still drinking.

what I did do later on was rent a house for a week (we were having some work done on the house - ex did not come with me - he stayed at the house to "supervise" works, he set them back days by flooding the bathroom after passing out drunk running a bath that flooded into the kitchen as the floor was being tiled) - it was such bliss, calm and peaceful, I gained a lot of mental strength from that time.

Going away to recharge gives you the oportunity to get some peace, and him the opportunity to come to the end of this binge, clean up after himself and take stock. He may reach out to those who can help him if you are not there, if he has to stumble into his own pee. If he doesn't, and is not grabbing onto his sober resources or is still drinking that will give you a lot of information too, but you won't have had to live every dreadful minute of it.

just an idea - you don't have to have a big talk with him about it - you can leave a letter and go and say when you'll come back, and that you won't be communicating in the meantime - like a silent retreat, sort of a rehab for you, I think you deserve that don't you?

stella27 03-15-2013 07:54 AM

I could have really used this forum at all the times I was living in emotional and financial and actual chaos with an alcoholic. You all have such good ideas.

And Cecilia, none of this means that you don't love him and aren't supportive, but you are living with an unreliable entity (Alcoholism) right now, and you are protecting the family's assets from that factor.

This is exhausting. I second the idea of getting away if you can.

And the conversations with his family will backfire on you. They are expecting you to take care of this. Have you realized that all of you responsible adults are spending all your time and energy scurrying around trying to figure out what to do with him while he gets to enjoy a life of no responsibility whatsoever?

Is he using his brain and his heart and his energy to think about how he could best help YOU? No, he isn't.

CeciliaV 03-15-2013 08:57 AM


Originally Posted by Hopeworks (Post 3862997)
Alcoholism is like a rhinoceros in the living room that we all pretend is a coffee table because we so desperately don't want to rock the alcoholic's boat and have them go off on us.

Active addiction is instability and sadly, marriage is a corporate entity legally and you are in the eyes of the law "one person" and jointly responsible for liabilities financial and otherwise.

This is boundary setting at its finest...not the easiest... but it is the smartest route to take.

The conversation (after consulting with a lawyer) is that advise the A that until they come to a place where you are comfortable that they are "recovered" (this is huge debated topic in AA as to whether this possible!) from their disease you are splitting the assets and at least the cash.

You are legally entitled to half as he is. Separate your money and get rid of all joint credit cards. I believe there are some documents you can draw up that can limit future financial liabilities...

heck the best way is to divorce the guy! Remarry him later... if he straightens up.

I am pessimistic today...my XA just relapsed for the hundredth time... sigh.

Hi Hopeworks, sorry to hear about your XA, it is so sad. I'm feeling pretty pessimistic myself, which is why I'm finally taking steps to protect myself if I need to. The account is there, and for now, I'm just planning on making a plan for other fiscal separations. Knowing that I can do certain things in case the shiznit hits the fan makes me feel less worried about the possible shiznit.

And you're right - it IS a giant rhino in the room, and it takes so much effort.

Thanks for your input and insight. :hug:

CeciliaV 03-15-2013 08:58 AM


Originally Posted by TrustTheProcess (Post 3862964)
I started doing the same a little over 2 years ago and called it my emotional awakening. I was a total mess physically and emotionally then and this was my first step towards reclaiming my life. We are not crazy, we just haven't lost ourselves yet. Hugs!

Thing is...I feel like I DID lose myself, and now I'm trying to find myself again. I haven't given up on myself, and I need to act like it.

bless5 03-15-2013 09:08 AM

I second getting the advice of a lawyer regarding protecting yourself financially. Best friend had to do this 3 years ago after 26 years of marriage. The are still married and doing better, but I think it's because she took the legal steps to separate herself financially from him. They have five children, and while he was not working for over 2 years (and not looking for work) she was worried sick about draining the bank accounts and paid all the bills. She was enabling him to avoid ALL concerns about their finances. Now, her name is not on the utilities, his credit card, and their is no more joint account. He pays the bills they agreed were his responsibility, and she pays the bills that they agreed are her responsibility. This way he HAS to participate in the financial well-being of the family or they have no lights! Also agree it would be really good for you to get away for a couple weeks to gain some clarity for yourself. sending hugs!

CeciliaV 03-15-2013 11:49 AM

Thanks, all, there's some really great insight and tips here. I really appreciate all the input and advice. You all rock!

I've been doing well so far today in my own recovery. I was pretty calm and non-interactive this morning at home before leaving for work (no in-depth convo or interaction) and haven't initiated any contact with him today and haven't done any CC transaction checking. Seemingly small but big steps for me.

When he's texted me, I've replied, but again, keeping the interaction light and polite. He just texted me, asking if I wanted to do something together this weekend & saying that he's been thinking a lot about this past week & how, while it sounds so simple, one of the really bad things is that he didn't do anything...how everything was so structured & busy at rehab & that he never realized or didn't want to realize that he needs to be just as busy & structured outside of rehab. (All his words.) Old, terribly codie me would have been all "OMG, wonderful, great insights, I'm so proud of you, oh yes yes, let's spend lots of time together and let me shore you up!" Current me replied with "I want to do some things for me this weekend too, but come up with some ideas & we can chat more in detail later." Not a perfect non-codie reply, I know, but much better than I have been.

I'm off to nom on some yummy tacos & guac, but just wanted to check in to report some minor progress with my own recovery & to say thanks to this wonderful, supportive community.

:You_Rock_

CeciliaV 03-15-2013 04:24 PM

I gotta say, I'm pretty damn proud of myself right now. I was driving home from work when DH called me, and he was a little freaked out because he's on anti-anxiety meds and he runs out of pills on Monday and he's having a hard time getting a refill. This is to be expected because he's been home from rehab for two weeks and did nothing to connect with a psych doc on the outside to be able to get a new Rx. Anywho, he said he would have to go to the ER tonight to get a new Rx and no one at his rehab place could help him & he left a message for our primary care doc and and and... Again, this difficulty is to be expected when he waits until late Friday afternoon to try to remedy the situation. This is a medical issue since he can't exactly go cold turkey from anti-anxiety meds without medical repercussions, but he sounded cognizant and sober and fully able to take care of the situation himself, so I simply made some suggestions about calling his rehab facility back & talking to the front desk folks to help direct him call to someone that may be able to help (staff docs, staff psych, etc.) and I gave him the opportunity to try to follow through on his own with them. I figured I could better assess his sobriety and ability to be able to really handle it when I got home & could then decide my next course of action.

We ended the call, and when I got home not long after, he greeted me at the back door. He seemed sober. He said, "Hi, can I have a hug?!" and stretched his arms out. I had my hands full (and also wasn't feeling all that huggy), so I politely declined and went about unloading and peeling off shoes/coat/etc. He then told me that he had to go to the ER, he again tried everyone at rehab, so the ER is his only choice - that he has to see someone there and they can give him a new prescription & that it was the only way. Again, since this is both a medical issue and now a monetary issue (ER trips can be expensive even with insurance and I'd rather not see a $200 chunk come out of the medical savings account for this), I asked if he had looked into urgent care facilities. I could see the light bulb go off in his head - "Oh, I didn't even think of that!" He scurried off and was able to find one nearby all on his own - called ahead and confirmed they would be able to give him a new Rx if he came in to see them. I admit to asking him a question while he was researching - I asked if he wanted to go to the ER for his Rx or if he wanted help with detox. He said it was for his Rx, and then asked if I was okay. I said I was fine and went about my business.

Before he left a few minutes ago, he came to me and said that he didn't drink today, he was sweaty today, he went to work today and it was hard, he did good things today. I replied with, "That's good," and nodded. He told me that BIL will likely come on Sunday and leave on Wednesday. I said, "okay" and again went about my business.

It was SO HARD to not research for him, make calls for him, offer to go with him. It was so hard to keep out of it and let him take care of himself and not be a cheerleader, coach, mommy, handler, etc. I have to learn that I can't take care of everything for him, and he needs to learn that he can and needs to take care of himself. I am sure that I didn't handle things "perfectly" today, but I handled them well enough and much better than I would have just even a day ago, and that's good enough for me right now.

bless5 03-15-2013 04:43 PM

Bravo! Progress, not perfection :)


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