Wavy

I am concerned that in trying to stand up for my boundaries I’m over reacting to things and not giving ABF a chance to do the right thing. An example just to give you an idea of what I mean, but this sort of thing happens all the time:

Last night I went to pick him up from work. I was parked outside in a slightly different spot than normal (3 spaces over) and he couldn’t find the car at first. I saw he had missed me so I tried to call his mobile, but he spotted me before he picked up.

He got in the car and this was the conversation we had:
ABF: “I couldn’t find the car”
Wavy: “Yeah I saw you walk the wrong way”
ABF: “Well why didn’t you do anything?”
Wavy: “I tried to call you”
ABF: “Why did you do that you stupid c*nt? I wouldn’t hear you from inside the car!”
Wavy: “No, call you on your phone, not shout at you. Now get out the car, its not OK to talk to me like that and I don’t want to be around you if that’s how you are going to react to such minor situations”

After I said that I sat in silence staring out the front window waiting for him to get out, thinking if it was going to be a battle of wills for who could sit there longer then I could sit it out. After a while he tried to apologize and I told him again to get out the car, but we both still sat there. He tried apologizing a few more times and gradually I thought that maybe I was over reacting, he’s apologized and wasn’t it a bit mean of me to not accept his apology if he knows he’s done something wrong and is sorry for it (knowing in the back of my mind the apology didn’t really mean anything because he would talk to me like that again in a heart beat). In the end after about 20 minutes of playing this game I just started the car up and drove us both away. I gave up I guess and he won again and knows again that what I say doesn’t need to be taken notice of because I always back down.

I know I’m not supposed to engage in games, but I don’t understand what else to do in these situations. I don’t want to become the abusive one. I’m trying to stand up for my boundaries without becoming nasty, but I also don’t want to become hard-headed and insensitive. I just don’t understand too well where the lines are with what’s ok, what’s not and how to deal appropriately with things. I guess I’m just questing and second-guessing myself because this is all so new to me, I always just accepted his behaviour before. Does anyone have any advice?

PippiLngstockng

You were kinda trapped in that car. And he knew it.

Don't pick him up from work anymore.

My AH would always argue with me in the car while he drove. It got so bad we had several occasions where I opened my door whole he was driving and I would run out and be stranded on small country roads, refusing to return because he would just start up again.

So then I took the train and stopped getting in a car with him at all.

And people wonder why I am happier without him? 😏

LexieCat

I think Pippi's right. You were in a situation where that particular boundary ("I will not tolerate verbal abuse") is pretty much impossible to protect. At home you can walk away from it or leave the house. You might also consider always keeping a key to whatever car you have driven somewhere so you can leave at any time when he becomes abusive.

And if it ever comes up again in a situation where you are trapped, remember that you don't HAVE to do anything--in the situation you just described, for example, doing nothing probably would have been preferable (in terms of maintaining your dignity) than demanding that he get out of the car (a demand he KNOWS you cannot enforce), thereby setting him up to "win."

Hugs, these things are tricky for all of us. You're on the right track, but sometimes you must pick your battles.

Recovering2

From your recollection of the conversation, my impression is that HE over reacted. 3 spots over??? Was he worried that he would never find you and spend the night in the parking lot? Sheeesh. Calling you the "c" word with stupid in front of it is completely and totally unacceptable to me, and not something that you should have to tolerate or accept.

You let him know this time that the behavior is not acceptable to you. Now moving forward hold that boundary, he can't say he didn't know. If it happens again, I would not drive him home and not pick him up ever again. Let him figure it out, he'll get the message.

redatlanta

What an angry man - your boundary could be not to be around him. Perhaps next time you can drop him off at home then go stay with a friend or in a hotel.

SparkleKitty

I don't think you overreacted at all. I agree with Pippi. Let him find his own way home from work from now on.

FireSprite

I agree with Pippi too. This is the great thing about boundaries - when you start actively using them you also learn more ways to define/refine them specific to your life & your situation. After that incident (where, yes, HE overreacted) you learned that you have no exit plan for that situation so you can redefine the boundary: "I won't pick him up from work anymore & put myself in the position to be verbally abused." or whatever you feel comfortable with.

Wavy

Thank you all. Not picking him up again in the future was not a solution I had thought of, although I don't know why, its seems so obvious now!

I guess I struggle when he apologizes and sounds sorry. I feel like I'm being so unfair to still remain hard against him. I know this is a MAJOR weakness for me grounded in misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the basic moral lessons we are taught as a child about forgiveness, acceptance and giving people a chance. I really struggle to know where those lines go, my thinking is just so distorted. I never got the other half of the morals to balance it out about looking after yourself and enough being enough. I've always been so patient, forgiving and accepting and been told those are good things, that I feel so mean to renounce his apology and not give him a chance to show he's sorry.

I know that is totally juxtaposed to his behaviour, which shows me that nothing will change. His apology was actually "I'm sorry, I forgot you were so sensitive" so not really an apology at all now I think about it!!! I just struggle to let go of these warped moral imperatives of trying to do the right things and miss the blindingly obvious I think!

FireSprite

I can totally relate Wavy, it's so hard to wade through the layers of codependency. When my husband was actively drinking he became so good at false apologies & smoke & mirror tricks that for a while I really started to feel insane, like I'd lost my mind truly & may never recover some parts of my self/sanity.

Your post was very timely, I struggled with some boundary issues this morning myself so this topic is big on my mind today.

skella99

"The basic moral lessons we are taught as a child about forgiveness, acceptance and giving people a chance" do not really apply to alcoholics. Their minds are so twisted that they do not (can not) view things from this perspective. You should put yourself first because he will not, he is incapable of putting someone else's needs and feelings before his.

Also, one thing I had to learn was to not second guess my reaction. There is a reason I reacted and it was usually a result of my XAH's or AD's behavior or treatment of me, not because of anything I did.

Audrey1

The problem is, in my experience, it seems relatively common for men (incuding non-alcoholics) to give women such non-apologies - "I'm sorry you thought I upset you" "I'm sorry. I guess it's that time of the month and you are hormonal and upset". It's infuriating when you realise they're doing it, because it is their way of shutting you up while still making it your problem. This is not an attack on men, just something I have noticed some of them do to justify not feeling bad about the way they behave. You were NOT overreacting. Being called a "stupid c*nt" is completely unacceptable, especially by someone who is supposed to be in love with you. Irrespective of what he said, if it's something you find unacceptable, you should be able to at least have a calm conversation with him about it and agree that he won't say it anymore.

After getting very upset with my partner telling me, essentially, to shut up in his language (which is, in itself, ridiculous because I am not a big talker at all and he often complains I don't talk enough), and him trying to convince me that it was only a very soft version of "shut up" that people say to each other all the time (not that I've heard), then me rebutting this over and over with the fact that I don't care and refuse to hear it anymore he finally agreed to stop. But only eventually and possibly because I ended up losing it the last time he said it and did basically the opposite of shutting up! I hate the fact I have ended up like that a few times now, so to defuse the stuation I told him I was going out for a while to calm down. That seemed to be the trigger for him to stand up and listen for the first time, most likely due to his strange deep-seated fear I will leave him altogether. He hasn't said it since.

I think if I would have been in your situation and had clarity of mind (though I admit it's very hard to when your emotions are flying about the place) I would have given him the keys, switched off my phone, and taken a taxi to a hotel.

Wavy

I guess I feel my reaction to his nasty language was justified, its my reaction to his apologies that I second guess. My natural reaction is to accept that apology and go back to being fine, but obviously that's not really got me anywhere, except inviting more nasty behaviour. I feel I've got so many negative behaviors ingrained that I need to second guess myself so I can change, but I still don't know which path is the right one, I just confuse myself more!

He agreed that his reaction was totally unreasonable and he knows that I'm not OK with being called these things. His excuse is that he speaks to people at work like that all day so when he sees me sometimes its hard to switch it off. But why he thinks he can talk to people at work like that and that be OK is beyond me. He knows he has these unreasonable outbursts, he says he can't help it and that I shouldn't get offended, they are just words.

I couldn't (and wouldn't) give him the keys because he hasn't got a license, its my car not our car and the car wasn't allowed to be left where it was for long, plus I lose access to the car because he's being a jerk, which seems unfair.

PreciousKitty

For the first half of my marriage and raising my kids I did not drink or take pills and I put up with a man that acted exactly like you described all the time.

I have NEVER been good with boundaries EVER! Years of not sticking up for myself turned me into an addict.

Now I have to set boundaries or I will relapse. I don't know much of your story and I understand you are not the addict. Regardless, don't waste another minute not sticking up for yourself by being afraid to set boundaries.

I thought I was "the better person" and I could handle the verbal abuse because I was strong. I didn't realize it was eating away at me and one day I would HAVE to deal with it. Waiting made it much harder.

Even if you don't notice, every time you allow him to treat you this way it will eat and eat at you until you do become that angry mean person and who knows what else.

Recovering2

He can't help it??? I call BS on that one. He doesn't have to help it, because he can just excuse his way out of it. And, yes, of COURSE you are offended. The "c" word is unacceptable for any reason at anytime anywhere....period. He doesn't get to decide what offends you...you do. He just needs to respect it, act like a big grown adult, and not repeat the offending behavior. Or.....suffer the consequences if he does. Like needing to find a new mode of transportation home. His decision...his consequence.

Audrey1

How about driving him home, dropping him off, and then going to a hotel? I guess he could always refuse to get out of the car again and you would have the same waiting game on your hands.

Sigh.

AnvilheadII

maybe a good boundary for you could have something to do with how you will allow people to treat you? sometimes we have to take a giant step back and see this isn't about where you parked, or how you reacted to how he reacted but that his behavior was completely out of line, disrespectful and verbally abusive.

we teach people how to treat us. somehow it's become "ok" for him to call you vile things and then turn around and say it's your fault. imagine how nice life would be without that type of negative draining energy???

stronger12879

My AXBF verbally abused me in the past while he was drunk, always apologizing profusely after he sobered up and promising it would never happen again... But it did and eventually he physically abused me as well. I don't think you overreacted or were being too sensitive. We all have to put our foot down at some point and firmly decide what we will or will not tolerate. No one should tolerate abuse, whether it's verbal or physical. Forgiving someone does not mean we have to let them stick around in our lives and give them an opportunity to repeatedly abuse us. Forgiveness, in my opinion, is more about US than it is about THEM. Forgiving someone allows us to release the anger and resentment that poisons our peace of mind. We can choose to forgive someone, but that does not mean we are obligated to keep them around and continue giving second chances forever.

laya

I too struggle with setting and keeping boundaries. My AH says really mean things when he's drunk and talks about separation. I'm still learning to ignore these conversations b/c you can't have a rational conversation with a drunk. I get upset with myself b/c I soften up too quickly and once again he's let off the hook for his behavior. I set myself up for it to happen over and over again. I definitely don't think you were overreacting. There is no reason for him to call you what he did. But, with the alcoholic, it's always someone else's fault. And, I guess when you care for and love someone, it's difficult to keep the boundaries. Like right now, I feel like I should be cold to him b/c of the treatment I get, but I can already feel myself softening after just 1.5 days. So, I know how you feel.

stella27

The first time something like that happened to me, I had a one year old baby and was expecting another. We had been on a really fun weekend getaway in the mountains and on the way home, we decided to stop off at a mall. I wanted to go to one mall, he wanted to go to another and he escalated the argument to the point that we drove into MY choice of mall, and he told me to get my @$$ out of the car.

We had been married about 8 years at that point and I had seen his irrational anger on more than one occasion, but that was the first time I realized how bizarre and out of the realm of normal it had all become.

But by then I had babies and no job and no means of support outside of the marriage and I blamed the stress that he was under, and I just didn't have the faith in my instincts to let that be the end of it.

When we separated for good, it was seven years later, and almost the exact same scenario: he cursed at me for nothing, I said "you can't talk to me that way" he left, and that was practically all she wrote.

There was a brief (4 days) reconciliation after that, but I hardly count it. My instincts were correct the first time, but I didn't set the boundary or acknowledge my need to protect myself and the children.

I hope you are a quicker learner than I was.

SparkleKitty

There just isn't any excuse for anyone to speak to you that way. Try not to overthink that. It is mean, degrading, and meant to hurt you. It says a lot about who he really is.