So my RABF tells me...
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Originally Posted by Dee74 
Is he still drinking Choublak?
D
D
Sigh.
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I'm glad he's sober Choub.
I asked because I think the answer can be different depending on which side of the line you are.
I can only speak for me...I had to stop or die.
I dunno how or why other people stop.
D
I asked because I think the answer can be different depending on which side of the line you are.
I can only speak for me...I had to stop or die.
I dunno how or why other people stop.
D
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 3,796
Originally Posted by Dee74
I'm glad he's sober Choub.
I asked because I think the answer can be different depending on which side of the line you are.
I can only speak for me...I had to stop or die.
I dunno how or why other people stop.
D
I asked because I think the answer can be different depending on which side of the line you are.
I can only speak for me...I had to stop or die.
I dunno how or why other people stop.
D
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 178
My partner never tried to quit drinking before he quit last year. I'm not sure he ever even recognised he had a problem. I wish his decision to quit had nothing to do with me and that he was doing it for him, but it was me leaving him that spurred him into action. Whenever I ask if he feels tempted to drink he says, "No. I don't want to feel that pain again." As time passes he talks about other motivations, mostly that he will never turn out like his alcoholic father.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Sadly, it is true that despite our heroics, our anguish, our desperate attempts to get them to stop boozing it comes to nothing unless the A is "ready" to break up with alcohol for good.
And the statistics are pretty grim if they do attempt to stop drinking. Only a handful make it to 5 years sober and the stories of men and women being sober for long periods of time... decades even... and then picking up again are out there.
The disease never gives up and the sober must be vigilant and keep up active recovery for the best results....
From my lifelong study of the disease and its treatment the best results and outcomes are with A's who enter into a lifestyle of recovery through the rooms and steps of AA. It's not the only method and and there are A's that just stop! Maybe they weren't A's of the hopeless variety that AA talks about...
Whatever the situation and the A's personal situation personality and drinking issues it is entirely up to them to decide if they want to stop and if so what lengths are they willing to go to in order to stay stopped. Half hearted attempts always seem to fail... the A must be totally committed to abstinence and almost a desperate and determined mindset to never drink again.
Last night I watched an old move about Carl Brashear who was the US Navy's first black Master Diver and in one scene he must assemble a flange in freezing cold water. The Navy sabotaged him by cutting his bag of parts and tools that were scattered all over the ocean bottom. Risking his life he stayed down for 9 hours shaking with hypothermia until he found each little bolt and nut buried in the sand and completed the task and graduated from Diving School.
Finding their way out of the maze of addiction is like that... dark, cold and hard... examining the insides of their hearts with determination to weed out the parts of them that are selfish and screwed up and fuel the compulsion to drink. They have to keep searching for each nut and bolt...diligently... determined... to the point of the brink of death. And it is a life and death struggle because the disease kills.
I know it is long post but it is what I have learned. Not rosy. Not especially hopeful. Just accurate.
When we who loved A's understand our position and that we have zero control over the outcome we can take charge of our own recovery and stay in our own hula hoop and get better ourselves.
And the statistics are pretty grim if they do attempt to stop drinking. Only a handful make it to 5 years sober and the stories of men and women being sober for long periods of time... decades even... and then picking up again are out there.
The disease never gives up and the sober must be vigilant and keep up active recovery for the best results....
From my lifelong study of the disease and its treatment the best results and outcomes are with A's who enter into a lifestyle of recovery through the rooms and steps of AA. It's not the only method and and there are A's that just stop! Maybe they weren't A's of the hopeless variety that AA talks about...
Whatever the situation and the A's personal situation personality and drinking issues it is entirely up to them to decide if they want to stop and if so what lengths are they willing to go to in order to stay stopped. Half hearted attempts always seem to fail... the A must be totally committed to abstinence and almost a desperate and determined mindset to never drink again.
Last night I watched an old move about Carl Brashear who was the US Navy's first black Master Diver and in one scene he must assemble a flange in freezing cold water. The Navy sabotaged him by cutting his bag of parts and tools that were scattered all over the ocean bottom. Risking his life he stayed down for 9 hours shaking with hypothermia until he found each little bolt and nut buried in the sand and completed the task and graduated from Diving School.
Finding their way out of the maze of addiction is like that... dark, cold and hard... examining the insides of their hearts with determination to weed out the parts of them that are selfish and screwed up and fuel the compulsion to drink. They have to keep searching for each nut and bolt...diligently... determined... to the point of the brink of death. And it is a life and death struggle because the disease kills.
I know it is long post but it is what I have learned. Not rosy. Not especially hopeful. Just accurate.
When we who loved A's understand our position and that we have zero control over the outcome we can take charge of our own recovery and stay in our own hula hoop and get better ourselves.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
My exabf could go 6 weeks or more and not drink, then off on a binge he would go. Really didn't make any difference if he was in AA, CA or any of the programs, it was like a timer would go off and he would either drink/use or do both in one binge. Never could figure him out, he has never been ready for recovery, no matter how low he's gone, appears that he has no bottom.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
I've heard many alcoholics describe "moments of clarity," when something just CLICKS and they are ready to be done with alcohol. That doesn't inevitably mean they will succeed immediately, but it does mean that at that moment, they accept their powerlessness and the unmanageability of their lives. As a matter of fact, Christopher Kennedy Lawford has a book called "Moments of Clarity" in which various alcoholics/addicts (some famous, some not) describe what led up to that moment and how it felt.
I've often felt that those moments have a limited "shelf life"--the window opens, and if it is not acted upon immediately, it tends to close and might not reopen until more months or years of misery have passed. That's just my own observation. It usually comes from some sort of emotional bottom, but as my sponsor used to say, "Every bottom has a trap door." It's always possible to sink further.
My own bottom/moment of clarity was not terribly dramatic, and to someone on the outside it might look as if I just got up one day and decided to quit, but I can assure you that wasn't the case. I had known for a few years that my drinking was a problem--but I kept thinking there had to be a way to control it. The usual alcoholic thinking. It wasn't so much that I was completely oblivious to the drinking problem, it's that I was misjudging it, rationalizing it, "working at it." My pattern was to struggle to control it, and since I did most of my drinking at home I didn't have much in the way of external consequences, though it was affecting me inside, and my ability to manage my life, in increasingly serious ways. After a long weekend of drinking, I held it together on Monday, didn't drink much that night, but Tuesday morning at work I was so shaky and sick from withdrawal I had to have someone drive me home from work. After I got home, and got done throwing up (which rarely happened to me), I had that moment. I could not go on. I had never had such a clear indication of where this was leading, and that it was never going to change if I continued to try to drink moderately. I spent three days tapering, the day before my last drink I threw out every drop of booze in the house, and the day after my last drink went to my first AA meeting (for ME, not for somebody else I was supporting).
I have little doubt that if I had not acted immediately to put my plan to get sober into action I would soon have felt better and tried to continue with my drinking.
So it is very hard to predict when/whether someone will have one of those moments. For a lot of people, what happened to me would have barely registered on the Richter scale of alcoholic consequences, but it was meaningful to ME in a way that made me ready to stop drinking.
I've often felt that those moments have a limited "shelf life"--the window opens, and if it is not acted upon immediately, it tends to close and might not reopen until more months or years of misery have passed. That's just my own observation. It usually comes from some sort of emotional bottom, but as my sponsor used to say, "Every bottom has a trap door." It's always possible to sink further.
My own bottom/moment of clarity was not terribly dramatic, and to someone on the outside it might look as if I just got up one day and decided to quit, but I can assure you that wasn't the case. I had known for a few years that my drinking was a problem--but I kept thinking there had to be a way to control it. The usual alcoholic thinking. It wasn't so much that I was completely oblivious to the drinking problem, it's that I was misjudging it, rationalizing it, "working at it." My pattern was to struggle to control it, and since I did most of my drinking at home I didn't have much in the way of external consequences, though it was affecting me inside, and my ability to manage my life, in increasingly serious ways. After a long weekend of drinking, I held it together on Monday, didn't drink much that night, but Tuesday morning at work I was so shaky and sick from withdrawal I had to have someone drive me home from work. After I got home, and got done throwing up (which rarely happened to me), I had that moment. I could not go on. I had never had such a clear indication of where this was leading, and that it was never going to change if I continued to try to drink moderately. I spent three days tapering, the day before my last drink I threw out every drop of booze in the house, and the day after my last drink went to my first AA meeting (for ME, not for somebody else I was supporting).
I have little doubt that if I had not acted immediately to put my plan to get sober into action I would soon have felt better and tried to continue with my drinking.
So it is very hard to predict when/whether someone will have one of those moments. For a lot of people, what happened to me would have barely registered on the Richter scale of alcoholic consequences, but it was meaningful to ME in a way that made me ready to stop drinking.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Wild West, USA
Posts: 407
my former bil, my aexh's brother, just quit. He had a terrible hangover and decided he wasn't going to drink anymore. As far as I know he hasn't. I don't know if he's an alcoholic, but the great majority of the men in that family are. My daughter says her dad admires that- I'm glad, I hope it plants a seed of potential in him. Something a high school friend said to me about alanon inspired me to check it out over a decade later... the influence of an example can last a long time.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by dandylion
Lexie, could it be that your work and the ability to do that work meant so much to YOU that anything that threatened to take it away struck an inner terror for you?
Just wondering?
dandylion
Just wondering?
dandylion
Maybe I had not continued for as long as some people (my alcoholic drinking lasted about 10 years, as opposed to my entire adult life). Maybe it's because I had so many examples of good recovery (and what happens when it is not pursued) in my life (both husbands--one who got well and stayed that way and one who decided to continue to drink in spite of almost dying from it). Maybe it was just a miracle. Who knows for sure?
What I do know is that it was not due to something I, or anyone else, did. It was just something that happened. I don't pat myself on the back for being any "smarter" than anyone else. I think I was luckier than a lot of people.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 585
Originally Posted by LexieCat
I've heard many alcoholics describe "moments of clarity," when something just CLICKS and they are ready to be done with alcohol. That doesn't inevitably mean they will succeed immediately, but it does mean that at that moment, they accept their powerlessness and the unmanageability of their lives. As a matter of fact, Christopher Kennedy Lawford has a book called "Moments of Clarity" in which various alcoholics/addicts (some famous, some not) describe what led up to that moment and how it felt.
I've often felt that those moments have a limited "shelf life"--the window opens, and if it is not acted upon immediately, it tends to close and might not reopen until more months or years of misery have passed. That's just my own observation. It usually comes from some sort of emotional bottom, but as my sponsor used to say, "Every bottom has a trap door." It's always possible to sink further.
My own bottom/moment of clarity was not terribly dramatic, and to someone on the outside it might look as if I just got up one day and decided to quit, but I can assure you that wasn't the case. I had known for a few years that my drinking was a problem--but I kept thinking there had to be a way to control it. The usual alcoholic thinking. It wasn't so much that I was completely oblivious to the drinking problem, it's that I was misjudging it, rationalizing it, "working at it." My pattern was to struggle to control it, and since I did most of my drinking at home I didn't have much in the way of external consequences, though it was affecting me inside, and my ability to manage my life, in increasingly serious ways. After a long weekend of drinking, I held it together on Monday, didn't drink much that night, but Tuesday morning at work I was so shaky and sick from withdrawal I had to have someone drive me home from work. After I got home, and got done throwing up (which rarely happened to me), I had that moment. I could not go on. I had never had such a clear indication of where this was leading, and that it was never going to change if I continued to try to drink moderately. I spent three days tapering, the day before my last drink I threw out every drop of booze in the house, and the day after my last drink went to my first AA meeting (for ME, not for somebody else I was supporting).
I have little doubt that if I had not acted immediately to put my plan to get sober into action I would soon have felt better and tried to continue with my drinking.
So it is very hard to predict when/whether someone will have one of those moments. For a lot of people, what happened to me would have barely registered on the Richter scale of alcoholic consequences, but it was meaningful to ME in a way that made me ready to stop drinking.
I've often felt that those moments have a limited "shelf life"--the window opens, and if it is not acted upon immediately, it tends to close and might not reopen until more months or years of misery have passed. That's just my own observation. It usually comes from some sort of emotional bottom, but as my sponsor used to say, "Every bottom has a trap door." It's always possible to sink further.
My own bottom/moment of clarity was not terribly dramatic, and to someone on the outside it might look as if I just got up one day and decided to quit, but I can assure you that wasn't the case. I had known for a few years that my drinking was a problem--but I kept thinking there had to be a way to control it. The usual alcoholic thinking. It wasn't so much that I was completely oblivious to the drinking problem, it's that I was misjudging it, rationalizing it, "working at it." My pattern was to struggle to control it, and since I did most of my drinking at home I didn't have much in the way of external consequences, though it was affecting me inside, and my ability to manage my life, in increasingly serious ways. After a long weekend of drinking, I held it together on Monday, didn't drink much that night, but Tuesday morning at work I was so shaky and sick from withdrawal I had to have someone drive me home from work. After I got home, and got done throwing up (which rarely happened to me), I had that moment. I could not go on. I had never had such a clear indication of where this was leading, and that it was never going to change if I continued to try to drink moderately. I spent three days tapering, the day before my last drink I threw out every drop of booze in the house, and the day after my last drink went to my first AA meeting (for ME, not for somebody else I was supporting).
I have little doubt that if I had not acted immediately to put my plan to get sober into action I would soon have felt better and tried to continue with my drinking.
So it is very hard to predict when/whether someone will have one of those moments. For a lot of people, what happened to me would have barely registered on the Richter scale of alcoholic consequences, but it was meaningful to ME in a way that made me ready to stop drinking.
I'm pretty sure that he felt the "shelf life" of his moment of clarity...he had been up most of the night & decided he needed help & needed to go to rehab, and he woke me up at 5am to tell me. He totally felt like if he didn't strike while the iron was hot, it would just pass, and so setting up rehab & medical leave were rolling within a couple hours! I honestly don't know where he or I would be if he didn't come to that decision at that time. I don't want to think about it, because I was at the end of my rope & had run out of patience & strength. I imagine that if he were still actively drinking beyond that time, he or I would be out of the house. Like I said, I don't want to really think about the what-if's and I shudder to think what the trap door of his bottom would lead to. All I know is that he wasn't ready before that time (as evidenced by his failed attempts at IOP before that point), and I'm happy as all get-out that he finally was ready and that he did something about it and is so far continuing to do something about it.
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My RAH had tried to get sober for years - his BB is dated 1998 but he didn't get sober until 2002.
Moment of clarity: After getting deathly ill from drinking (seriously almost dead) in 2000 RAH went 60 days sober including AA. Then started back at it. Then would get sick again. he repeated this pattern for 2 years thinking that if he stayed sober for a certain amount of time that he would be able to drink with no problem and sometimes there was no problem but eventually he would have another pancreatitis attack. Didn't stop the A brain from trying to "figure out" how to drink without getting sick.
Fast forward to 2002....a serious pancreatitis attack and back to ICU. he had let his health insurance lapse because he had been on such a bender for months. Got the report that he was chronic pancreatitis and was now diabetic due to it. And a 47k bill from the hospital. That was his moment of clarity he says - the absolute INSANITY of it all. Stayed sober 10 years. Relapsed last year. Sober again.
Moment of clarity: After getting deathly ill from drinking (seriously almost dead) in 2000 RAH went 60 days sober including AA. Then started back at it. Then would get sick again. he repeated this pattern for 2 years thinking that if he stayed sober for a certain amount of time that he would be able to drink with no problem and sometimes there was no problem but eventually he would have another pancreatitis attack. Didn't stop the A brain from trying to "figure out" how to drink without getting sick.
Fast forward to 2002....a serious pancreatitis attack and back to ICU. he had let his health insurance lapse because he had been on such a bender for months. Got the report that he was chronic pancreatitis and was now diabetic due to it. And a 47k bill from the hospital. That was his moment of clarity he says - the absolute INSANITY of it all. Stayed sober 10 years. Relapsed last year. Sober again.
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choublak, some alcoholics are ready for sobriety, however, do not achieve it. There are alcoholics who do all the right things & continue to relapse. They then get pegged with the notion that they "just don't want it".
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Originally Posted by Justfor1
choublak, some alcoholics are ready for sobriety, however, do not achieve it. There are alcoholics who do all the right things & continue to relapse. They then get pegged with the notion that they "just don't want it".
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Originally Posted by choublak
Or that they "don't want it bad enough"... I really don't know.
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