amrunning

To give you a lowdown:
1. Stepson is 27, grew up in a good home, college educated. Has been in jail 2x now for repeated DUI offenses and possession of drugs. He is currently in jail (caught with drugs which violated parole) and awaiting sentencing.

2. Growing up, his mother (deceased 5 years) and father (my husband) completely enabled his drug and alcohol addictions. They turned a blind eye, bailed him out, gave him money, made excuses you name it, but all codependent behavior. For the past two years or so, I've been working with my husband on his codependent behavior with some success, although there are some days it is very challenging to deal with.

3. Just prior to the step son's second stint in jail, my husband was getting better at setting boundaries with his son and even went so far to finally tell him he is an addict and needs help. This really angered his son and he cut off communication, around 4 months ago. He has been in jail for about a month and my husband has not heard a word from him, other than he left him a voice mail the night before saying he was turning himself in (bench warrant for parole violation and missed previous hearings).


NOW, my husband is talking about writing him a letter and I'm sure visiting is on his mind. I think this is a terrible idea. I think my hubby just really needs to focus on himself and working through his codependent behaviors and let his son contact him when he is ready. The stepson has resources available to him including mandatory drug/alcohol counseling and nothing my husband can say to him will magically make him stop for good. I worry my husband's codependency will only make matters worse in allowing stepson find sobriety after jail. I can see the same old familar dance- the manipulation and blame from stepson, my husband listening sympathetically to his ongoing complaining about how "his life sucks" instead of just telling him he needs help and leave it at that. Last time, my husband behind my back kept sending him money to the tune of $700 in about 2 months. I don't think he will do it again, but enabling can be done without money, that's for sure.

Their relationship was/is so dysfunctional. Phone calls and get togethers were always about his alcohol abuse and problems. Conversation rarely revolved around little else. My husband would give unsolicited advice or tell him he needs to get a job. Stepson is a master manipulator in many ways and husband hung on to every word, hoping for a clue that he really was sober last time even though I could see a mile away that he was going to relapse (I don't need AA because I already know what they're going to tell me, I can drink occasionally and I'm fine, I'm not addicted, etc). I got frustrated listening to my husband's optimism over little things like stepson wants to look for a job, or he "sounded" sober, or "he didn't ask for money". I've told him that he can't believe a word stepson says, he needs to look at his actions and over time he will prove that he is sober.

Point is, when they are interacting, it's nothing but drama and chaos. And dysfunction. I've enjoyed the peace and quiet in my home without stepson's problems constantly interfering in one way or another. I've told my husband he is just as sick as his son (ie his codependency) and needs to learn how to deal with him and people in general in a normal, healthy way. He has a daughter (clean, sober, doing just fine) and they have a fairly normal, typical relationship.

I want to tell my husband that for now he needs to let his son work on his own problems and that he will contact my husband when he is ready. He knows he is loved and supported by his father and there are other family who are also concerned and involved. I want to tell my husband he needs to focus on HIS PROBLEMS of being codependent, and learn how to maintain good boundaries so when the day comes that stepson is interacting with us again, my husband won't enable him.

Personally, I think if he writes a letter it should say in a nutshell "I love you but you need help. When you have gotten that help and have been sober X amount of time, please contact me. If you are drinking and using drugs, I can't have a relationship with you. It hurts too much to watch you destroy yourself because I love you that much."

From what I've seen, part of what has kept stepson from hitting "rock bottom" is that no matter what, he knows he will always have his dad around, even if it's just to verbally abuse him. Maybe seeing that his addictions have pushed even his father will help facilitate the wake up call and keep everyone's lives as sane as possible? I can't handle the drama again. And to me, the obvious is that if his son wanted to contact him, he would! He did last jail term (letters and phone calls).

Any advice or comments are welcome.

LexieCat

My main comment is that you can't control what your husband does, any more than he can control what his son does.

You can tell him about Al-Anon, and maybe going, yourself, might not be a bad idea. After all, you, too have been affected by your stepson's behavior.

dandylion

Dear amrunning---drats! I just wrote you a long post--and then lost it on my computer!

Oh well. Here goes.

I have much sympathy for your situation because I have been in the same situation due to my own son. Eventually, the whole family feels the negative effects. This is why it is called a "family disease".

If your husband is like most parents, he is probably suffering from a lot of guilt and feels responsible for his son" actions. I know that I did. He is going to need a lot of education about the nature of alcoholism and the manipulative ways of the alcoholic. He is also going to need a lot of support for himself.

I would suggest that you begin to attend alanon (you need support, yourself) and invite him to go along---even if he declines. I think that attending some open AA meetings and inviting your husband along. This can be very eye-opening. If one person in a fam ily does something different--it can set up a ripple effect for each person in the family--eventually.

You will find that many people are facing what you and your husband are dealing with. The support can be like a life raft for you.

There is room for much hope for your family. Keep posting as often as you would like.

sincerely, dandylion

dollydo

Here is one of cynical one's blogs, might be of help to you in talking to your husband. You cannot control your husbands enabling actions, unfortunately some parents never understand the negative ramifications of enabling. Perhaps Alanon meetings will be of help to you.

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Top 10 Truths To Help Parents
By Francis Rivers

You may find yourself reading here today because you are just at the start of that roller coaster ride, or maybe you are already deep into it, looking for answers. I don’t have the answers. But after all of it, I have learned a few hard lessons. From these lessons, I have compiled a list of truths. I wish I had read this list a few years back and taken it to heart. Maybe things could have turned out differently.

1. Your actions and parenting are not what caused your child to become an addict. Perhaps there are things that you would do differently if you had it to do over. But keep in mind, at the time you made what you thought were the right decisions. Don’t waste your energy and affect your own morale by going over and over the past and endlessly second-guessing yourself.

2. You can’t fix your child’s addiction. Only your child can find the answers to their sobriety. You may provide your child with self-help books, spend every dime you have sending them to rehab, find support groups for them within your community or much more. But none of that will get them clean and sober and on the path to recovery, until they have hit their own personal rock bottom and are ready to recover.

3. What you believe your child’s rock bottom to be and what they believe their rock bottom to be can be very different. For you, their dropping out of school or college may seem a tragedy. For them, especially when they are actively using, it may be but a blip on the radar. For you, one trip to the hospital due to an OD may seem a nightmare that you never want to endure again. For them, it may take even more severe consequences for them to reach bottom.

4. Telling a child that “if they loved you” they would get clean and sober “for you” will never, ever work. It’s not that they don’t love you, it’s that they are an addict.

5. And along those lines, don’t for a moment believe that your child, who surely does love you, is not capable of lying to you, stealing from you and more when in the grips of their addiction.

6. Bailing your child out of trouble caused by their addiction is not protecting them. It is enabling them to continue their addiction without consequences. Facing consequences for their addictive behavior early in their addictive behavior, for example, the loss of a job, an eviction, or a bad credit score, could be an effective lesson for them, and help them face that they have a problem. Yes, they eventually will have a mess to clean up. Let them learn that.

7. Bailing your child out of jail if they should be arrested is not always the right thing to do, even if every fiber of your being is in torment at the thought of them being incarcerated. Chances are very strong they will survive the experience, even if you leave them there for quite a long time, and the reality of spending days or even weeks in jail may be just the hard slap they need. Likewise, hiring expensive lawyers may or may not minimize the impact of criminal charges but it will not increase your child’s likelihood of recovering from their addiction.

8. Telling your child you love them unconditionally is always right. Telling them you don’t like and won’t condone or support their behavior when they are actively using is also right. Addicts can be more manipulative and cunning in their drug seeking behavior than you would like to believe your child capable of. It’s OK and appropriate to tell your child that they cannot use your car, take your money, or jeopardize your home, health, or well being in any way. You may even reach a point when you need to tell your addict child they are not allowed or welcome in your home any longer. Protect yourself, your health, your finances, and your assets.

9. Loving your child isn’t always enough. Your addict child will hurt themselves, harm themselves, and cause themselves more pain that you can imagine, and all the love you have for them can’t prevent it or stop it. They may lose friendships and relationships with other family members and with you and alienate everybody. They may lose everything they have and cause irreparable havoc from their drug use. You will still love them, even when they are at their worst. In their own guilt and shame they may have a hard time believing that you love them and they may push you away. Always let them know you believe they have the ability to recover.

10. There is always hope. In your child’s darkest hour, they may find what they need. Never give up hope.

ShootingStar1

Amrunning, if I can be frank with you, said with great empathy, the question I'd ask if I were you is "am I being co-dependent about my husband's co-dependency?"

I know in my life, there have been times when I had great insight about someone else's problems and how to solve them, and they found me to be a great intrusion. And there have times when I have had great problems, and for the life of me, just couldn't make sense of what I now know was very good advise from people who loved me.

Too hard headed, too stubborn, I just had - and have - to learn it myself a painful step at a time. What a waste of time for me. But I have to go through it - sometimes over and over - until I finally "get" it.

Take what you want, leave the rest, said with caring,

ShootingStar1

Recovering2

My RABF (early in recovery) has a grown daughter who I believe is also an A. She is in her early 30's, and still comes to him to take care of everything. Credit card debt, rental debt, car debt, yada yada. Drives me crazy. I believed she was a big part of his last relapse. He says he wants to say no to her, but doesn't. My relationship with her is strained, as the last time she asked me for advice she didn't like my answer (basically...you're grownup, be responsible for your own decisions).

I was constantly doing what you're thinking about. I would offer advice to my BF, try to get him to see he's not helping her in the long run. I would try to talk to her. End result....I became the issue for both of them. But I couldn't see it. When he went into treatment, and I started to work on my own recovery, I came to realize that their relationship is not my business. That's a hard truth to accept....but it's true. I don't approve of my BF's continued codie behavior with her, but it's his choice and his consequences. I have learned to stay out of it. That's very hard sometimes!!! But I am slowly recognizing when I start to open my mouth, and I tell myself to shut up.

Your husband and his son have to work this out between themselves. The best thing you can do is go to AlAnon and start working on you. Let your husband know where you are, invite him to attend. Leave "Courage to Change" and "Codependent No More" sitting out for anyone to read. Post here often. It may not change your husband and his son, but I promise it will change you. Hugs....

Seren

Hello amrunning, Welcome to SR!

I married a man who has a son who is an alcoholic and crack addict (currently in recovery but not when we met). My husband's late wife died 8 years ago. They also enabled or denied that their son's problem was 'that bad' for most of drinking/using life.

Before we became engaged, there were many times when the drama of 'Jr.'s' addiction became the all-consuming topic of conversation, and the enabling behavior reared it's head all too often for my taste. What I finally had to decide was this: Is this man that I love going to be capable of changing his habits and interactions with his son and make our relationship a priority--or not? If not, am I going to be able to live with the ongoing drama of his addicted, adult son?

One thing was clear, I would never, ever ask him to choose between me and his son, and I had absolutely no control over what decision he would make.

The only thing I could do is decide for myself what I wanted in my life--what was acceptable to me.

Fortunately for me, the man that I love realized that all of the things he and his late wife had been doing were simply not helping his son. He began to attend Al-Anon meetings with me, and things became so much better.

Although you cannot make your husband attend meetings or visit this site, I hope that you can find some relief and emotional support here. Welcome, again!

redatlanta

I have to agree with the other posters - you are trying to control your husband and his relationship with his son, this will eventually blow up in your face.

Setting boundaries is something you will learn to do in Al Anon. You aren't setting boundaries now you are simply trying to manage the unmanageable. You are setting yourself up to be blamed for what happens to the son and causing major problems in your marriage because of it. Your husband needs to WANT to change his interaction with his son not be TOLD to.

Al Anon is a lifesaver. Hope you will consider it.

amrunning

I have read everyone's comments and appreciate all of them.

My husband is wanting to change. He just says he doesn't know how or he knows what he should do but is afraid of how it might look or if family thinks he is making a mistake. I did talk to him last night a little bit about what he was thinking now that his son is in jail and just listened. He said he feels like he is "supposed" to visit his son because he's his son, but he doesn't want to. He hates going to the jail and visits before were very awkward. Usually the son was contrary or defensive, but at times was showing gratitude. It was very hard on my husband. Or he "should" listen to his son on the phone (even though he sometimes holds the phone away from his ear and lets him talk) but he really has no interest in what his son is saying, or at times, complaining about. My husband has a habit of being a people pleaser and doing what everyone else wants him to do, and not what he wants to do. If he does what he wants, then he feels guilty. Over the years his son has learned that and exploited it. I wish my husband would stop caring so much about what everyone else thinks and do what is best for himself and us. But that's his problem. He jokingly has said he knows he needs to "grow a pair."


I am trying to be conscience of being codependent to codependent behavior. I have laid out boundaries and told my husband that his son's problems can't be my/our problems. Like stop giving him money and putting us thousands of dollars in debt for someone who won't work and blows it on drugs and alcohol. To that point, his relationship with his son IS my business because he was blowing OUR money. Our last vacation his son called about half a dozen times "just to chat" or complain about his parole officer, so to me that part that affects me does become my business. But as far as their interactions go on their own time, that's between them. I just don't want to lose my husband to someone else's problems but I know I don't have control over that. Like if his son would call during dinner and he would answer the phone and not eat with us because of some impending crisis that, quite frankly, his addictions created and spend all night on the phone or get off the phone and be in a terrible mood or depressed all night. For example, when his son was staying at the Y and not allowed to drink but was caught drinking (but claimed he just used listerine) and got kicked out, why should that ruin our lives? It's the neediness that becomes so draining.

After phone calls or visits, my husband is often in a bad mood or anxious, overly worried. Oftentimes my hubby would give advice, oftentimes, then the son would get defensive or outright nasty saying stuff like "if you were a better father I wouldn't have gotten into drugs" etc. Should I just tell my husband that he's the one who continues to interact with an active addict so what else does he expect? And that I don't need to hear about it? I guess I want to know how to keep the sanity in my life, with or without my husband being on board, though of course I'd like him to be on board. I didn't get married just to be with a po'd person whose always more concerned with someone else's problems than what's going on under his own roof.

He wants to talk to an AA counselor for advice on what's best to say to him and how to say it. I told him he can tell me what's on his mind, but that I can't be his only resource. My father and cousin are alcoholics so I've dealt with this my whole life. I've made wrong decisions and right decisions, and hindsight is always 20/20 lol. I wish I knew why it seems like there's always some type of addict around my life. Maybe it's like that for everyone, maybe I'm just *lucky* lol.

I don't know what else I need right now. I think I just needed to vent a little. I just want the best for everyone involved. All I can do is pray for stepson to find sobriety for good and for guidance for us to make good choices in handling the situation.

Boundaries sound like good things. Again I have set some but maybe I'm overlooking stuff. What else can I say to my husband so this doesn't consume our household like it has before? Or just say that I need to detach because I can't be involved when he is overly involved? I don't want this to be a dealbreaker for my marriage because his son is an addict/alcoholic, but I'm sorry, I can't have it in my life. Period. The midnight calls begging for money, the drunken voicemails, the being called every name in the book during a drunken rage, mood swings, guilt trips, etc. ad naseum. Can't do it. I won't be around people like that when they act like that. Been there, done that, can't do any more. So I hope you all see how this gets to be a conflict when problems with the step son arise. What do I do without telling husband what to do?

I appreciate everyone taking time out to comment. I know it's all in love <3

Recovering2

If your husband truly wants to change his ways, then encourage him to seek AlAnon. Sounds like he could use the wisdom and support Alanon offers all of us. He could also consider an "open" AA meeting. Those are meetings where non-A's are allowed to attend, he is just asked not to share. But he may get some valuable insight listening to other A's who are now working on sobriety.

IMO - your stepson wasn't blowing your money...your husband was. He made the decision to rescue. The phone calls at dinner or on vacation? It's within your rights to not answer the phone during dinner or personal time. Boundaries. And yes, your stepson will continue to quack at your husband until he gets help.

I really really think you would both get tremendous help and support at AlAnon. That's one thing you could do as a couple to deal with this situation.

dandylion

Dear amrunning, I go back to my previous post to you. Your husband sooo needs to be educated. So many parents in his situation have no idea what enabling is--have no idea what codependency is---have no idea that there are other ways to deal with their addicted children.

If he really is ready to change---point him toward the resources---alanon, open AA meetings, talk with long recovering alcoholics, counseling appointments with someone who is very experienced with addiction, all of the books, materials that have been suggested by other posters. Let him k now that your marriage is suffering from this family illness and let him know where your boundries are.

I think it is great that you and he are able to sit down and talk to each other. Don't judge him--try to pull together as a family and hold your own boundries. Alanon will really help you with this.

I h ave been in this same situation with m y own son.

sincerely, dandylion

LexieCat

Boundaries aren't demands you make, things that you "insist" on, they define what YOU do when something happens. If you don't want your husband spending your money on dealing with son, you get a separate bank account. If he takes telephone calls at dinner time, you eat without him.

YOU qualify for Al-Anon because your life is affected by someone else's drinking. I suggest that you go, with or without your husband. What he does is up to him, what you do is up to you. If his enabling becomes unbearable for you, you have the option to leave.

amrunning

Ok, a light bulb just went off. I need to read and reread this until I fully absorb it, but I think I was missing part of this. Thank you.

So when husband was talking on the phone for 45 min. when we were supposed to go to the beach, I just say I'm going to the beach after 15 min? Or when he picks up the phone? It seems kinda bitchy. But I guess it's better than waiting the 45 minutes, hearing about the phone call for another 15, then silently resenting him all the while. And if he asks why did I leave him, well it's because he made the choice to answer the phone during our private time?

When stuff like that happened, I'd be annoyed with my husband but also annoyed with the stepson. Maybe, because the ss is an addict and he's gonna be completely irrational, I need to only hold husband accountable, because he's making the choice to take the bait. And I make the choice to take the bait with him, in a way.

Am I on to something here?

LexieCat

Yeah, you've sort of got it. The point isn't to be bitchy or pissy about it, it is about what you deem to be reasonable and acceptable to you.

So you might tell your husband that you understand if he needs to take a call from his son, and that you likewise hope he will understand that you expect when it is personal time you have planned together that he will keep it brief, and that if he doesn't, you will go ahead with what you were doing. And then you proceed to do it, preferably without huffing and puffing and slamming the door on your way out. The point isn't to punish HIM or train him or anything, it's just to have the behavior not affect you.