recovering alcoholics and porn

Old 02-19-2013, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowell View Post
I ask b/c I dated a recovering addict too and someone told me that my ex was attracted to me b/c I was a "safe". I tried researching what that meant with no luck. I read a lot of whats posted on Sober Recovery and its helped me immensly but this is the first time I've come across it mentioned in the same context.
My AGF told me I was the most stable person she had ever been with. She is the most unstable for me.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by chugbottle View Post
Oh and on top of taking an ED pill before sex, he MUST watch/look at porn on his laptop/phone by himself, as if he's hiding something. When he's in front of his laptop, he acts so guilty and makes sure I don't see what he's doing - which I found so strange in the beginning.

Am I going crazy?
Trust your gut. There are a lot of different kinds of porn out there, and some of it is incredibly disturbed and disturbing ~ and illegal. The porn you know about may only be the front for the stuff you don't (and probably don't want to) know about.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:09 PM
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You're not going crazy. Porn can be a real addiction. Sex addiction is a serious problem. I have an ex boyfriend who was a sex addict. Believe me, it can be very destructive. He had an addiction to phone sex, and had hundreds of dollars a month worth of bills.

Don't take it personally. It's nothing against you. I went to a counselor at my college and she helped me understand some of what was happening.
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Old 02-19-2013, 08:27 PM
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Anyone who gets angry about you bringing up something instead of having an adult discussion about the possible options to keeping a healthy relationship is someone who is afraid that you will take something away from them. This type of behavior is often seen in alcoholics who think that anything you say about their alcohol might change what they like doing with it.

Granted, I don't personally have an issue with porn. But I don't live your life and whatever your boundaries are regarding it is what you need to have someone else respect. To me, if a thing replaces the majority of someone's interaction with a human being, it is a problem.

Things can be...alcohol, gambling, porn, gaming- anything that lets the person zone out, indulge in their selfish world alone and ignore other people, mainly their significant other and just focus on their selfish needs.

Granted, once in a great while I might want to 'get off' quick or something and not involve someone else, and I might utilize porn, but it's in no way shape or form a replacement for real life and a real relationship and having real sex with someone.

Problem with addicts of any kind is that they don't see the selfishness in what they do and they often do not realize that their behaviors are avoidant and immature among other things.

Respect yourself, hold your boundaries and allow yourself to be with someone who understands and respects you 100%. You do not deserve 50%, 80% or some other level of respect unless YOU lower your standards to that. Kick him to the curb and he can jerk off there all he wants- alone.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:29 PM
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Wow, thanks kitten boo...I needed to hear that. There's much to be processed and sorted out in my mind right now.

Bluebelle - It's extremely hard not to take it personally when it feels like you're having a threesome with him and porn. Porn doesn't make me feel insecure, he can rub himself dry for all I care, but our time together deserves some respect.

As for boundaries, it was wrong of me for not setting them from the beginning. I guess I'm also learning about myself in all of these. Besides the basic boundaries I've always had, I find out about new ones that I share with him as they come.

One day at a time...
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Old 02-20-2013, 03:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ShootingStar1 View Post
My experience with my alcoholic, porn addicted husband ended very badly. My experience is different than yours because I am 62 and my STBXAH is 69 and we were married almost 20 years. However, I have learned some lessons about porn and respect and rage against women that may be worth telling. My husband was an abusive controlling alcoholic who added porn to his mix of addictions.

It escalated rapidly and badly. He went from looking at internet porn to porn chat rooms to ongoing "relationships" with porn women, to texting them, to web-cams. He became obsessed with this.

Nothing I said made any difference. I told him I would only be in a marriage where I was the only woman; marriage was not, for me, a relationship between one woman, one man, and any number of porn stars. He didn't want to hear it and said it was my fault.

His disrespect for me was profound and immoveable. His rage against me was huge. I told him I would not stay if this continued. I was quietly gathering the papers and things I would need if I left, still hoping that he loved me enough to change but doubting that I could stay.

On July 4th, my credit card company called to have me authorize some transactions they considered suspicious. He had charged $525 to MY credit card to wire transfer money to a porn woman. My credit card company said there were over $1700 of these charges on my card.

I packed what I needed, took my dog, and left within a couple of hours and filed for divorce within the week.

He later said he went crazy for a while, and I think he did. But when I had time on my own, and with the help of this forum, I began to understand that his porn use was directed against me and was another form of abuse and rage against women that went along with many other abusive things he was doing. I looked back at his relationships with other women - his mother, sister, prior wife, and they were fraught with anger and disrespect.

Bigsombrero said the problem starts with your significant other's attitude towards you. You told him you didn't like the porn, and then the next day you woke up to him jerking off right next to you as you slept? That's like pretending you aren't even there. That's a pretty blatant disregard for your boundaries.

Your situation has many differences from mine. You are both much much younger, your partner is a recovering alcoholic, and you haven't been together that long yet.

People can exchange addictions - - give up alcohol and take up porn or gambling or even non-stop video games instead.

I'd suggest doing as much reading and research about alcoholism and porn addictions as you can. Learn about what the "red flags" are early in a relationship that trouble is ahead. It is so easy in the early stages of love to put aside your intuition and give someone the benefit of a doubt on behaviors that may be harbingers of trouble.

I'd try to see if I could understand more about how your partner feels about the earlier/other women in his life. In my situation, I realized that using porn was a way of depersonalizing sex, removing the depth of love and expression of connection with another that can come with real emotional and physical intimacy. My husband went on to use porn as a weapon against me, saying I should watch videos so that I could learn how to be a real woman. I don't know if this connection of rage and porn is common to men who use porn, or more exacerbated in my husband's instance.

And, I'd go back and really look at what you guys are fighting about and see what the real dynamics are. As you describe his porn use, he is pretty blatantly and defensively doing what he wants despite your telling him that it hurts you. If the other fights have similarities - where you are protesting over his behavior and he is defending his right to do whatever he wants, then there is a pattern.

What we learn here on the Sober Recovery forum, and through Alanon, is the 3 "c's": you didn't cause the addiction, you can't control it, and you can't cure it.

All you can do is think through what YOU will live with and what you won't live with and be clear about that, set boundaries, and take the action you said you'd take if your partner breaches them.

You're young, with your whole life ahead of you. If you were my daughter, I'd say think long and hard about what you really want and deserve from a life partner. I wish you all the best in the world, and hope that you'll come back and post as much as you want.

ShootingStar1

we broke up for good now. i told him that if he could just refrain from jerking off to porn next to me in bed, and do it in private, id be ok with that. that every relatiionship needs to have certain boundaries. he told me no, and that he cannot be with me because i have very rigid expectations (bc i ask him not to jerk off right next to me), and he doesnt want a relationship like that. i told him that i have felt unsatisfied by lack of intimacy during sex, because he just wants it rough. he told me its my fault for not asking him to slow down during the act, but i have told him before numerous times that i would like to make love for long periods of time, in new ways, not just hard and rough. he responded that i am not assertive enough with him in bed, and he is unsatisfied. that if we lived together, he would still want to jerk off to porn a lot instead of having sex before bed, because sex takes longer and he is too tired and just needs the release before he sleeps. he also told me that i am not satisfied in bed with him, because i do not orgasm. and that it is my responsiblity to figure out how to orgasm with him, so that i feel satisfied afterward. i told him that my satisfaction is derived by touch and not just by finishing. when i told him that sometimes women have troubling climaxing, and its sometimes something that partners need to take time to work on together, he told me he just did not want to spend the time doing that, and i should know how to satisfy myself. he then shared that with other partners, when they couldn't finish, they would both touch themselves together until they came.



i would really like another person or man's perspective on this. is this all accurate, and true, and okay? i feel worthless. i do not know how this man who has told me we would spend our lives together, have children, etc., has now told me he just does not love me enough to make this work. i feel sick, distraught, and just completely insane.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:52 AM
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Actually, as bad as you feel right now, that was a very good and productive conversation, it sounds like. You both shared your bottom line, how you feel, and what would be a deal-breaker. Much better than his lying to you and your continuing to be frustrated and hurt by it.

He as much as told you he is not willing to change. Period. Now, you may not LIKE who he is, but he has told you who he is. Believe it.

Love isn't enough to change alcoholism, and it isn't enough to change this guy's obsessions, either. That is no reflection on you. It is simply a fact of who and what they are.

He expresses no interest in changing. So the best thing for you to do at this point is to accept the situation (and acceptance doesn't mean it's "okay," it is simply recognizing the truth of it and not putting some other spin on it), and work on getting on with the rest of your life.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:35 AM
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Sounds like you did the right thing. Personally, as a male, he's sounds completely whacked (again, no pun intended). It sounds if he is wrapped up in a very immature, immediate gratification mind set. Simply move one. Excessive porn can warp you self image as a male, warp your expectations of your partner, and lower your libido in the absence of porn. I remember a Q&A that asked guys what they find sexiest in a woman and the overwhelming answer was self-confidence. There are plenty of guys out there who want a real relationship with real intimacy. Be happy with your choice.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:24 AM
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He has given you a gift, take it and run. You shared your boundaries, he is telling you he won't respect them. He's telling you he's not going to change. I wouldn't listen to the rest, he is shifting blame to you so he doesn't have to confront his own issues.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:31 AM
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Ditto on the "run!" sentiment. I normally don't say that to folks, but in this case, yes, run! And don't look back on this one.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:10 AM
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i do not know how this man who has told me we would spend our lives together, have children, etc.,

cuz words are just words. he has thru his ACTIONS revealed his true character - and that is one of a very sick twisted man. you are very fortunate to have gotten out of this in one piece.

the rough sex, utter lack of intimacy, porn addiction and pleasuring himself next to you in bed displays some troubling sociopathic tendancies. i am not making a diagnosis, just an observation.

Profile of the Sociopath

This website summarizes some of the common features of descriptions of the behavior of sociopaths.


Glibness and Superficial Charm

Manipulative and Conning
They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible. They appear to be charming, yet are covertly hostile and domineering, seeing their victim as merely an instrument to be used. They may dominate and humiliate their victims.

Grandiose Sense of Self
Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."

Pathological Lying
Has no problem lying coolly and easily and it is almost impossible for them to be truthful on a consistent basis. Can create, and get caught up in, a complex belief about their own powers and abilities. Extremely convincing and even able to pass lie detector tests.

Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
A deep seated rage, which is split off and repressed, is at their core. Does not see others around them as people, but only as targets and opportunities. Instead of friends, they have victims and accomplices who end up as victims. The end always justifies the means and they let nothing stand in their way.

Shallow Emotions
When they show what seems to be warmth, joy, love and compassion it is more feigned than experienced and serves an ulterior motive. Outraged by insignificant matters, yet remaining unmoved and cold by what would upset a normal person. Since they are not genuine, neither are their promises.

Incapacity for Love

Need for Stimulation
Living on the edge. Verbal outbursts and physical punishments are normal. Promiscuity and gambling are common.

Callousness/Lack of Empathy
Unable to empathize with the pain of their victims, having only contempt for others' feelings of distress and readily taking advantage of them.

Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
Rage and abuse, alternating with small expressions of love and approval produce an addictive cycle for abuser and abused, as well as creating hopelessness in the victim. Believe they are all-powerful, all-knowing, entitled to every wish, no sense of personal boundaries, no concern for their impact on others.

Early Behavior Problems/Juvenile Delinquency
Usually has a history of behavioral and academic difficulties, yet "gets by" by conning others. Problems in making and keeping friends; aberrant behaviors such as cruelty to people or animals, stealing, etc.

Irresponsibility/Unreliability
Not concerned about wrecking others' lives and dreams. Oblivious or indifferent to the devastation they cause. Does not accept blame themselves, but blames others, even for acts they obviously committed.

Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
Promiscuity, child sexual abuse, rape and sexual acting out of all sorts.

Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
Tends to move around a lot or makes all encompassing promises for the future, poor work ethic but exploits others effectively.

Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility
Changes their image as needed to avoid prosecution. Changes life story readily.
Other Related Qualities:

Contemptuous of those who seek to understand them
Does not perceive that anything is wrong with them
Authoritarian
Secretive
Paranoid
Only rarely in difficulty with the law, but seeks out situations where their tyrannical behavior will be tolerated, condoned, or admired
Conventional appearance
Goal of enslavement of their victim(s)
Exercises despotic control over every aspect of the victim's life
Has an emotional need to justify their crimes and therefore needs their victim's affirmation (respect, gratitude and love)
Ultimate goal is the creation of a willing victim
Incapable of real human attachment to another
Unable to feel remorse or guilt
Extreme narcissism and grandiose
May state readily that their goal is to rule the world

(The above traits are based on the psychopathy checklists of H. Cleckley and R. Hare.)
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:26 AM
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S-Anon is a 12 Step support group for people whose lives have been affected by someone's sex addiction. One of my friends has been in S-Anon for about a year and it has helped her rebuild her very damaged self-esteem and also given her a very good reality check about what she was involved with, because she crumbled under his emotional and psychological manipulations to defend himself and to belittle her.

If you google "S-Anon" (for friends and family, not SA, which is Sex Addicts Anonymous), you may find a meeting in your area if you are in a metropolitan location.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:31 AM
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I don't think that watching porn and being a recovering alcoholic necessarily go hand in hand. I think it is 'normal' for men [and some women] to watch porn to some extent, and I have been in 3 serious relationships as well as some not-as-serious relationships and all the men viewed porn, and none of them had any problems with drinking except the one I'm with now. I do think that porn can be an issue if they are 'obsessed' with it or can't stop watching it even when they know it bothers you etc. In that sense I do think it can be an 'addiction' and that they can switch addictions from alcohol to porn just the same as from alcohol to anything else.

In the last relationship I was in, porn was a big issue because he would watch it all the time but wouldn't be very interested in a sexual relationship with me. He would also lie about it because he knew it bothered me but he couldn't stop. To be honest it wouldn't bother me if he viewed porn occassionally but also had a normal healthy sexual relationship with me [I do think that both things are healthy/normal] and didn't lie to me about it. Clearly we had other communication/honesty issues that extended beyond porn and the relationship did not work out. My current SO/fiance watches porn sometimes but he doesn't hide it and he is super into me sexually and so I have no problem with it. As far as jerking off with you right beside him . . . IMO if this was a one-time thing it wouldn't be a huge deal, I mean to be honest I sometimes have urges and wish to self-satisfy without necessarily involving my partner. But clearly in your case he is doing it regularly and while knowing it bothers you and THAT is a problem. To me it shows a lack of respect, an obsession, and probably an addiction. I'm sorry and I hope you can work this out or leave the relationship.
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Old 02-20-2013, 10:33 AM
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I just read your latest update and I think you did the right thing. Good for you. Sorry for posting before reading all the posts prior.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:04 AM
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i feel worthless.

Anonj, you are NOT worthless.

People who are narcissists, or, as AnvilheadII suggests, sociopaths, literally do not (or can not) care about what the other person feels. For a narcissist, there is only a limited supply of "feeling good" available, and for him or her to get enough, they have to take it from someone else.

They don't care at all about how the other person feels. It is not in their make-up. They are incapable of empathy. There was a chilling study done with convicted murderers to see what they actually felt. I don't remember it all, but the part that stuck with me is this. The murderers were shown a series of pictures of faces expressing basic emotions. Normal people identified the emotions as joy, fear, sadness, anger, terror, etc. One murderer looked at the face of terror and said "I don't know what they call that, but it's the face I see before I kill someone." I believe, but I would have to check it out, that their brains are wired wrong.

You are NOT worthless. To think that, what you are doing to starting to evaluate how you feel and what your worth is through HIS lens of what is worthwhile. And his lens is all about HIM. A normal person would not function this way. From what you write, he is NOT a normal person.

From my experience with a man who was heavily obsessed and using porn so much, his whole perspective about what sex was about changed radically from the loving, spiritual man I thought I had married 20 years before. Porn can be about the extremes of sexual behavior. From my experience, I believe it numbs the addict so that gentle loving, the nuances of tenderness and emotional and spiritual connection become less and less fulfilling and eventually just disregarded. Some porn is sadistic, and that can influence an addict's behavior also.

This is NOT about you. I barely escaped with my emotional and spiritual being intact. Here on SoberRecovery, EnglishGarden, AnvilheadII, Wicked, Katiekate, MadeOfGlass, among many others kept telling me what I was going through was not about me, and that I needed to get out and stay out, and they were so right. I so profoundly thank them and all of the others who fought for me against my damaged sense of self that made me feel like I should go back. They were right. It's almost 8 months now that I've been free, and I have needed every minute of that time to re-orient myself and I am coming to a place of peace. Lots more work to do, but I am happy again.

I am so glad you have broken up. Find as much support as you can to heal your self-esteem. You're worth it. We're here for you.

ShootingStar1
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:52 AM
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Male perspective here-

I have no issue with porn, but would never turn down the real thing with my EXAG for it. Solo can be good, but is so much better WITH A PARTNER. It seems to me that your BF (or exbf) has an issue with communication, intimacy, respect and control.

As much as I hate to admit it- sex was one of the things that kept us together for so long. That is the one thing that we did not screw up in our relationship... even though all the other parts were pretty messed up!

From your description, it sounds like you made a reasonable decision.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:05 PM
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Another perspective: Take the porn out of it. A partner that's not interested in the positive sexual experience of his or her partner, is a ****** partner.
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:55 PM
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So many opinions

This is a very broad area. A man in his 20s may want to have orgasms multiple times a day and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. Erotic movies stimulate men and there is nothing wrong with that.

People have levied some VERY charged opinions here without knowing some basic info. 1) WHY do you have sex once a week? Do you ever initiate? Does he reject you? 2) Is it possible he is having some confidence issues? Happens.

Sober people have this weird tendency to over-analyze EVERYTHING and try to relate it back to addiction. Masturbation is a gift from God. And if you and your partner are truly in love, relationships become marriages when they work AROUND these things, not make them deal-killers. If it gives him pleasure and does not take away from your sex life (and you have not drawn that link one way or another...others have done so for you on this board), then really, who cares? I mean you do. But you are not in his skin. Bet you anything he would not mind if you masturbated next to him.

You two are young. Your tastes may be different but if you love each other you can learn to appreciate, dare I say it, a porn movie with him from time to time. And he can take it easy and try to show some more discretion. but if you send him into hiding on this, there will be a bad end for sure. He's not selling drugs or shooting up schools....he's giving himself pleasure. Give him, and yourself, a break. Take it easy.
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Old 07-21-2014, 05:54 AM
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its common for the average guy to look at porn periodically, the difference is the average guy wouldnt do it there next to you and if they can have it with you they will instead of relying on porn.. his flippant attitude about your concerns over it tells me he is becoming addictedto it and that will lead himdown a dark path of other sick perverted things.. mine does this, he constantly had porn on his phone, would watch it all the time,,didnt matter what i thought about it,, when they defend it with such aggression it means something more is going on.. its another form of addiction..if it bothers you then its a problem..he is not respecting your wishes or validating your feelings about it..just thinking about himself ..
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Old 07-21-2014, 06:18 AM
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While still a relevant topic, please note OP's posting date of February, 2013 and that the poster is no longer active on our site
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