Is being a jerk a required part of recovery?

Old 02-16-2013, 07:04 AM
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Is being a jerk a required part of recovery?

Those of you familiar with my story know that my RAH has been sober about 55 days, moved out into an apartment after 3 days into rehab (with the help/guidance...enabling???....of his parents) and is not really talking to me except about the kids. When he initially moved he said it was "for his recovery". I cried, screamed, nagged, tried to manipulate, etc. like any good Codie would do, yet he still moved out. Now, it seems like everything I do or say is wrong. Everytime we talk on the phone he either makes me cry or makes me mad. He is working, going to meetings every night and working with his sponsor on the steps. Although in the beginning he said stuff like "we will work on our marriage after I am well", he now says stuff like "I don't know if I want to be married" and "IF I ever move back", etc.
Do recovering A's become selfish/self centered? I mean, I know it is what it is, but I don't know how to deal with it. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells every time I talk to him trying not to say anything that will make him mad (which is exactly what I did when he was actively drinking). An example...he usually sees the kids on Fridays for about 2 hours before his meeting. Then he picks them up Saturday morning and Brings them back Sunday morning. Last night he called and said he was tired and was going to rest and also had to leave for his meeting early because he was picking up a guy who couldn't drive. He also said instead of picking the kids up today at 10, he would pick them up at 4 because he wanted to "rest and relax". I'm quite certain he is not drinking at all and while this request sounds reasonable, I went all Codie and was like: why don't you want to spend time with the kids. You have free time all week as you don't have to feed/dress/care for kids, help with homework, put them to bed, wake them up, and deal with everyday life. His response was to scream at me and hang up on me. Ok SR family, please tell me I'm being selfish and that he is allowed to be this way. I guess the problem is...for so long, he treated me like a queen and did everything for me and now that I'm having to learn to live without him I am resentful. I guess I'm kind of answering my own thoughts here as I type this, but I always appreciate the brutal honesty you guys provide!
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Justshy View Post
I cried, screamed, nagged, tried to manipulate, etc. like any good Codie would do, yet he still moved out.


I went all Codie and was like: why don't you want to spend time with the kids. You have free time all week as you don't have to feed/dress/care for kids, help with homework, put them to bed, wake them up, and deal with everyday life.
By removing all the things he says/does/doesn't do/won't do; we are left with: YOU. This is you reacting.

This is the only outcome you have control over.

To me, the question becomes:
Is losing your serenity a required part of your recovery?
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:37 AM
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OK, here's the first thing that jumped out at me in your post: "Everytime we talk on the phone he either makes me cry or makes me mad." Um, NO, he is not. YOU get mad, or YOU cry. He cannot "make" you do either one. There is a wonderful book by Dr. Paul O (who wrote the most awesome story in the Big Book, "Acceptance Was The Answer"), called "You Can't Make Me Angry." Excellent, excellent read about our being responsible for our own emotional reactions to things.

Anyway, he is only 55 days sober. It sounds like he is working on his recovery. I was still a complete mess at 55 days. I am VERY grateful I lived alone, as I probably would have been hell to live with. In a lot of ways you are fortunate not to have to deal with the day-to-day ups and downs of early recovery.

He is only now beginning to sort out who and what he is. The fog is probably beginning to lift a little, but he has a long way to go before he is going to be good relationship material.

I understand you would like him to give you more relief in the parenting department, but you can't force him to step up, and your getting upset about it isn't achieving the desired response. Is your problem really that you need more help with the kids, or is it your anger that he isn't living at home as you would like him to?

Your comment about whether he is "allowed" to be this way make me chuckle a bit. Well, he IS that way, so I guess he is "allowed" to. No, people should not scream and hang up on someone. It isn't right. I know it took me quite a while to get my emotions in any kind of working order, and I was pretty impatient and hostile to people who didn't deserve it (lol, I once went off on some poor server at Burger King when I was a few weeks sober--not normally how I would ever behave, but I felt ready to explode over trivial problems with my order).

So my best advice is to keep working on your own emotional reactions. Time will tell whether he gets recovered and whether he moves back or not. His recovery will improve things even if the marriage ends, but only if you work on your own anger at the same time.

Hugs,
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Old 02-16-2013, 07:38 AM
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Justshy I can totally relate to what you are saying. I too felt like my RAH treated me better before he sought recovery. It was really his way of hiding his drinking.

In the beginning of his recovery it was the same as what you are saying and i couldn't understand why he didn't want to spend more time with the kids. What worked for me though was to step away from that codieness and just focus on myself. Focus on my time with the kids and time I needed without the kids - hence the schedule had to work for me and not just RAH.

My RAH never expressed in words that he wasn't sure he still wanted to be married but he sure tried to take advantage of his "single" lifestyle while we were separated. Coming and going as he pleased and being inconsiderate of my schedule and my needs. Yes, I believe part of that is the difficulty faced maintaining sobriety and part of it was my inability to set boundaries.

Do try to focus on yourself and what you want and need and put in place what works for you. Realize that there are some relationship needs that will not be met by a RA as they may not be capable of providing them but that does not mean you are to be treated with disrespect and insensitiveness while your RAH struggles with his sobriety. You need to look out for yourself.

And yes, I was resentful for a long time that there was this change in our relationship and I didn't have someone "treating me like a queen". In the long run I gained something much better, I treat myself like a true authentic person and I expect the same in return.

I am back together with my RAH and there are still some difficulties as he continues to struggle with sobriety after a year spber. I am so grateful for where I have come and never want to go back to how my RAH treated me when he was "deceiving" me about his drinking.

((((Justshy)))) Try to enjoy the time with your kids and ease some of the burden with all that you have to deal with by reaching out to other moms or family members.

I hope this helps. It just always amazes me how similar our journeys are being married to alcoholics.
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:05 AM
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Wink

If you have the Big Book of Alcoholics Anonymous there is a chapter called To the Wives aand also the story that LexieCat mentioned in the Big Book, Acceptance and ALANON meetings for YOU!


Originally Posted by Justshy View Post
Those of you familiar with my story know that my RAH has been sober about 55 days, moved out into an apartment after 3 days into rehab (with the help/guidance...enabling???....of his parents) and is not really talking to me except about the kids. When he initially moved he said it was "for his recovery". I cried, screamed, nagged, tried to manipulate, etc. like any good Codie would do, yet he still moved out. Now, it seems like everything I do or say is wrong. Everytime we talk on the phone he either makes me cry or makes me mad. He is working, going to meetings every night and working with his sponsor on the steps. Although in the beginning he said stuff like "we will work on our marriage after I am well", he now says stuff like "I don't know if I want to be married" and "IF I ever move back", etc.
Do recovering A's become selfish/self centered? I mean, I know it is what it is, but I don't know how to deal with it. I feel like I'm walking on eggshells every time I talk to him trying not to say anything that will make him mad (which is exactly what I did when he was actively drinking). An example...he usually sees the kids on Fridays for about 2 hours before his meeting. Then he picks them up Saturday morning and Brings them back Sunday morning. Last night he called and said he was tired and was going to rest and also had to leave for his meeting early because he was picking up a guy who couldn't drive. He also said instead of picking the kids up today at 10, he would pick them up at 4 because he wanted to "rest and relax". I'm quite certain he is not drinking at all and while this request sounds reasonable, I went all Codie and was like: why don't you want to spend time with the kids. You have free time all week as you don't have to feed/dress/care for kids, help with homework, put them to bed, wake them up, and deal with everyday life. His response was to scream at me and hang up on me. Ok SR family, please tell me I'm being selfish and that he is allowed to be this way. I guess the problem is...for so long, he treated me like a queen and did everything for me and now that I'm having to learn to live without him I am resentful. I guess I'm kind of answering my own thoughts here as I type this, but I always appreciate the brutal honesty you guys provide!
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Old 02-16-2013, 08:39 AM
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Walking on eggshells is a terrible way to live, and of course you are a mess. Of course. Living with an alcoholic is traumatizing (you say he treated you like a queen, but I don't think that lines up with walking on eggshells....it seems more likely he blew hot and cold, which is typical alcoholic behavior and it serves to keep the loves one destabilized and easily manipulated).

He's still an alcoholic, in my opinion, functioning with an addict brain and addict motivations, and that means he is absolutely self-absorbed, self-justifying, and self-seeking. 55 days is but a wisp of abstinence and if I were in your position, I would regard him as an active, but temporarily dry, alcoholic and I would protect my psyche and my soul and my life accordingly.

I would structure my day as if he were in fact an active alcoholic, and I would structure my expectations for mutual respect and regard as if he were an active drunk (meaning, I would expect nothing from him). In my view, it will be at minimum one year and most likely three years before he is "well" enough to have empathy, to stop justifying his selfishness, to stop it with the mood swings, the blame-shifting, the poor-me's and the mind-twisting that are traits of all alcoholics and drug addicts.

You may think you want him home, but my feeling is that any spouse in active addiction or in early recovery is so volatile and so selfish that having one in the house generates nothing but misery. And all the "detaching" and "working on oneself" will not mitigate the experience of being emotionally and spiritually abused.

Yes, you have your own part to look at, but primarily in regard to whether or not you have treated yourself with love and respect, whether you have compromised your values and your soul in order to remain with someone who levels you consistently. Marriage should be about two people who support and encourage and protect and enhance each other. And an alcoholic marriage will never manifest that kind of loving union.

He will continue to bring you misery for quite some time. It is vital you release your expectations that he will be mutually respectful and mutually loving. It is almost impossible to do this, to make this change within oneself, without the support of a counselor or with self-focus in Al-Anon. Because without that support, you will fluctuate between two states: rage and pain. You will react to him as if you were a willow and he were the north wind blowing. And that has to stop, dear. Otherwise, you will crumble.

Set boundaries--emotional and practical--and regard him as dangerous to your health. And be vigilant. There is still a long road of early recovery ahead, and his is still an alcoholic's brain. Empathy and insight are sorely lacking.
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Old 02-16-2013, 12:20 PM
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Ditto to what everyone has said. He also is sobering up so has a pretty muddled brain. That,s why they say don,t make any major decisions in the first year. He doesn,t have a clue what he wants at this point and is probably quacking.
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Old 02-16-2013, 02:02 PM
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I would expect nothing from him.
So much wisdom before me....especially this quote by EnglishGarden.
Turn all that energy inward. Focus on YOU and get to Al anon and work on YOUR recovery. In time, you're going to know what you want. Your fate is your own. It isn't tied to him...unless you do nothing and wait for him to decide what he wants. I'd rather take the wheel and work my own program and make my own choices. Only then can you make good, healthy decisions for yourself.
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Old 02-16-2013, 03:46 PM
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Dear JustShy. "Like a Queen"----Really???!!!

Remember, my dear, that when you are remembering the past behaviors of an alcoholic---play the tape ALL the way through. We tend to forget that the "good" behaviors are not the ONLY behaviors.

Englishgarden has been so articulate in her post that I can't really add much more. I would just like to ditto her post and the others as well.

He is just Quacking.

sincerely, dandylion
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