lizatola

So AH is back. He claims he has had all these revelations. He was all over me physically and we already had a discussion on how he's making an effort so why am I rejecting him? I basically told him I was uncomfortable and confused. I confronted him about his cheating accusations and how that made me feel. He was hugging me and says, "does this seem like a man who thinks his wife is cheating on him?"

I'm more confused than ever. He said his brother's sad bachelor existence that he witnessed back east was enough for him to realize that his home is here and that he wants our family back.

He said that if I keep rejecting him than, of course, he will start to pull away again. I have no idea where to go from here or how to proceed with caution. I told him I've heard all this before so why does he expect me to follow his 180 so cavalierly? Man, I have a long way to go.

NYCDoglvr

You're letting words sway you a great deal. Talk is cheap, it's actions that count. What is he actually doing to improve the relationship? All the talk and therapy in the world won't make a difference if he's drinking.

Maylie

If you go to meetings I would suggest to keep them up because the time when they first come home is the time we need to make sure we stay ontop of our own recovery first.

A red flag for me that I see is that he is already threatening to pull away from you. It is almost like a threat, "If you don't act like nothing ever happened I'll pull away again". He is pushing you to be a way that you don't feel comfortable being. It doesn't seem like he has come to terms with everything he has put you through.

I hope that he really has had a bunch of revelations, but I was keep my eyes open when they start being all lovey dovey. Actions speak more than words do, so I would take things slow. We all know how quickly they can go from lovey dovey to the monster they become when they don't get their way or we don't act the way we want them to.

Stick to your guns on this one. If it doesn't feel right, then it prob. isn't. Try to keep the focus on you because it seems our A's think that once they change the whole world should resume as before.

dollydo

IMO, he is a real manipulater/control freak...you must do as he says...or else. He knows how to play you like a fine instrument. You two have played the same song, over and over again, so many times, that he has every lyric down pat.

This has been going on for a very long time, I have to believe that even when he was sober he was the Maestro. It is a major part of his personality. He is the leader and you are the follower.

When I read your posts, I always feel like you actually never make a decision when it comes to him. It's like you think you are going to and then never really get to the decision point.

It is very confusing to me.

As always, I want the best for you and your son.

ODAT63

I agree with dollydo, It reminds me of my XAH, he is the one coming back and the one stablishing the rules (of the game), he should be the one listening to your bounderies and NOT telling you what to do or how to feel and act.
Be strong, it is so freaking hard to see their BS.

redatlanta

Sounds like same song again!

If someone has done a wrong - and they know it - They want to make it right - they say it. Then they will wait for it if that's what they want.

Rather than saying "if you don't respond quickly the portal will close" I would believe it more if he said "I don't care how long it takes I will wait and do whatever it takes to win you back'"

owathu

I was just going to say this. His words and actions are very manipulative. Which says to me that he is not getting any sort of help, it says to me he might have just stopped drinking, and thinks that everything should be FINE now. Cos, look! He stopped drinking, just like you wanted! Why you gotta give him such a hard time now? Is most likely his thought process.

In a way I envy your position, because it is at least starting point. But in a way, I am so happy I don't have to go through that at all. You Liz, have to remember that you also are healing, figuring things out, figuring him out, who he is....you may not know who he really is. Maybe this IS him, sober or drunk. It's not an easy journey, and I seriously admire your strength in giving it a shot. Just remember that you are also important. Your needs, emotions, wants count just as much as his. If you are skittish, you have a right to be.

MamaKit

He is giving you a crumb and telling you its a gourmet meal. Liz, you know this is crumbs. Remember how my A thought because he had one good visit with the boys and refrained from nasty emails that the slate should be wiped clean???? Ridiculous right? Crumbs dont cut it. I know you want what he says to be true.........believe me I know. More will be revealed. Stay strong.
MamaKit

AlcoholicLove

Sounds like quacking to me...
You didn't take the bait, so he warns you he might start to pull away....
Manipulator.
Stay strong and keep working on yourself, you're doing better and he knows it.

choublak

Who actually says "I've had all these revelations and am now a changed man" and tells the truth?

outonalimb

I can only speak of my own experience with exah.

He had alot of revelations over the years. Sometimes they came from simple events...like a long heart-to-heart talk that he had with someone or something he saw during the day. Sometimes they came from major life events like the death of one of his parents or a DUI arrest or a health scare. He would come to me...much like your AH has come to you...and claiim that he had finally seen the light. He would say exactly what I wanted to hear...that he wanted to be the man I married again...that he wanted to be a good father and husband. And his words were always music to my ears. AT first, I would say a prayer of gratitude and embrace him and have hope for our future. As the years passed, the 'revelations' stopped meaning anything. They were empty words.

What I eventually learned... Big speeches about revelations meant nothing. I think he wanted to believe the words as much as I did. The thing is...the words were never backed up by action. With alcoholics, we have to focus on their actions...not their words. True recovery...true 'revelations'...take the form of changed behavior. The actions are sincere. If the actions are sincere...over a course of time...well then maybe you would feel close to him again. If your ah were truly a changed man, he would give you all the time and space you need to heal. He would let you learn to trust hi again. He wouldn't try to force immediate results.

Everytime I listened to my exah's words and gave myself to him physically with hope in my heart that things would change, I was always let down. I felt used. I felt manipulated. My self worth plummetted. Physical intimacy without REAL trust and love behind it is just an act. Without real and trust and love, it is degrading (at least it was for me).

Listen with your eyes Liz....not your ears...and not your heart. If there is real change afoot, you'll see it.

Audrey1

Hmmm... that sounds eerily familiar...

I'm sorry if I missed your previous threads, but are you able to go into more detail about his cheating paranoia? It seems that's one of the biggest problems with your relationship from your post (besides the alcoholism). My partner has the same endless paranoia. It has diminished quite a lot since he quit drinking, but is still there... usually in a joking fashion to disguise his underlying concern.

I empathise. It's exhausting. But I suspect it is a way for them to turn the tables and draw the attention away from the very real issue of their own lying and cheating (with booze).

fourmaggie

oooh love, I really wish you see it for what it really is...HE IS AN ALCOHOLIC, this is what they do....its all the I.S.Ms and quack...

I agree with dollydo also...

ACTIONS speak louder than words....never forget that...

I am wondering what are you really afraid of? this control you have for STAYING is saying something more about YOU...

Florence

Quack quack quack.

Ignore what he says. Watch what he actually does. This is a time to exercise emotional detachment and measure his deeds against your needs.

lizatola

We've covered my fears in other threads; fears of abandonment, fear of raising a teen alone, fear of financial problems and security, and honestly I have a lot wrapped up in 18 years together along with my patterns of behavior.

What is good for me right now is that I didn't fold yesterday. Earlier in the day right when we got back from the airport I was outside playing with the dog and he came out and hugged me. He whispered his love you's and miss you's and then I said, "I love you too, but we have a lot of work to do." He struck back with, "What's that supposed to mean?" It was then that I realized he doesn't get it, he has no idea how to empathize with anyone else but himself.

And, yes, I saw the manipulation for what it was. He, himself, has said months ago that actions speak louder than words. It's time for him to follow through on what he says. He did tell me that he is going back to his therapist next week and he also told me that he confided in his childhood friend while in MD about the whole story including the DUI and the jail time. This is the friend who was active in AA 20 years ago when we met and whom AH claimed he would confide in but never did. So, I see a bit of action. His friend and I touch base regularly and he did back up AH's story. Now, does this all mean change is afoot? Not necessarily. But, I do see it as a sign that he is seeing 'something'. He did tell me that he's afraid to live the rest of his life alone, and of course I empathize because that's one of my fears(not a spoken fear but a fear that must be there because I'm still here in this marriage, right?).

Also, OUtonalimb said exactly how I've felt over the years regarding being physically intimate and then regretting it in the end. I told AH I will not go there. I told him that my actions are to protect myself and that from now on I will do things when they are right for me, not when they please someone else. His response? Hmmm, I've never thought of than, I'll have to think about what you've said. Oi vay!

Tuffgirl

I am probably going to be skewered for saying this - but in every single post you make about your husband, you are on the fence. Questioning his every move, word, motive, intention behind action, etc. Ok, so you've established you don't trust him. Yet you don't want to take the steps to end this relationship. Here's my suggestion: get off the fence and commit. You have two choices here: stay or go.

If you stay, of course he is going to want to have sex. It is how men show their love - it is an action. Yet you treat this as if its some kind of insult that your husband wants you in this way. Read some Dr. Laura books on marriage - withholding sex is a marriage killer. If you stay, accept him for who he is. Doesn't matter if he's an alcoholic, or bi-polar, or both. Doesn't matter why. It is what it is. He is who he is. Sure, everyone has the potential to "change" to become what we think we want them to be. But will they? Highly unlikely. So find the acceptance in what it is today,and wither be ok with that - hell find the good in it all - or leave.

Find some forgiveness. He's a human being after all. We all make mistakes and royally f-up sometimes. If you can't find forgiveness, leave.

Treat him the way you want to be treated, instead of remaining withdrawn as some form of manipulation to get him to "change". Maybe if you took the initiative here, he'd follow. Maybe you hold way more power over the tone of your marriage than you really think. If this doesn't appeal to you, leave.

Being halfway into anything is a recipe for failure. How could it not be? You're not committed when you're only halfway into something. So make a decision and commit to it. It will either work out or it won't. But you'll never know that until you try it.

lizatola

Tuff girl, you've given me a lot to think about. I've worked through so many books on forgiveness, it's not even funny. Maybe I need to go back to them?

As for the sex thing stuff. I can't seem to get past his rapist comments that he made months ago. Yes, he apologized 2 months later but I felt it was too late. He had backed up his words over and over and they are sticking with me like glue. I hate that, both about my inability to forget what he said and find a way to move past it and the fact that he said it in the first place. Seriously, I would love for someone to tell me how to get past the hurtful things that are said when someone is stone cold sober? If he(or anyone for that matter) were drunk, I could blame the alcohol and get past it. Kind of like how I forgave my dad. Yet, at the same time I never trusted my dad with my emotions or feelings ever again. I guess I just found forgiveness easier because he was drunk.

I also remind myself that AH has choices, too. He can leave me and find what he wants elsewhere. He, too, is choosing to stay. What a freaking cluster I've gotten myself into. Ugh!

dandylion

Dear Liz, one thing that jumps out at me is just what you said. You are BOTH choosing to stay in this marriage. I don't read anything in your postings that remotely sounds like either of you will be leaving.

sincerely, dandylion

MamaKit

Liz,
I think you have probably learned all that you need to about forgiveness. Maybe you can't forgive....because you shouldn't. Maybe you have to actually remove yourself from the constant hurt and actually heal before you can forgive. Maybe your gut, your soul, your instincts, your innner compass.....whatever it is ....is not letting you forgive because what hurt you (and continues to hurt you) is still right there in front of you.

Forgiving him may change you .....but it won't change him.

I think you've learned all you need to ...I think you've examined all the pieces and you are doing all the right work. It's just a matter of when it is going to "click" or fall into place.

Sending hugs,
MamaKit

FireSprite

I have to agree with a lot of what Tuffgirl said. I stay away from posting in your threads because I find it all so confusing.... you analyze, analyze, analyze... but there's never any ACTION. It isn't about whether your AH is choosing to stay, it's about you & YOUR choices & what you find acceptable in YOUR life, kwim? Do you feel like you create reasonable boundaries & stick to them?

One thing to consider: After everything else is stripped away...... do you LIKE your husband as a person? I don't mean, like him "if he quit drinking" or any other "if".... I mean who he is as a person right now, because this is who he is. Most people don't plan their lives/actions around who the people around them used to be or someday will be, it's about now. Would you want to pursue a relationship with this person if you didn't have all the baggage between you?

For me, that answer was yes when I asked myself at the point of deciding whether to stay & work on our marriage or to leave. I chose to stay because even with everything that had gone wrong, I still loved & more importantly, liked, my AH. Then I had to determine if he had hurt me in ways that I couldn't forgive, realized I could & have been working on actually forgiving him since. It's not an overnight change, but every day I get closer & closer.

I'm all for analysis, education, therapy & whatever else helps anyone understand or identify their demons.... but at some point you have to DO something, even if it means accepting that you aren't willing to leave the relationship. But then, you can't wring your hands everytime the same issues come up again & again..... Nothing changes if nothing changes, right?

Just my observations, I'm not throwing stones. :ghug3