Sober Truths come out
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 18
Sober Truths come out
My AH has always done our personal finances, even when he was drinking (dumb I know). His buddy and him had started a company a few years back and I know it takes a while to get up and running and become profitable. I never really knew what he made each month, the deposits showed up and i figured that was what he had. Just enough to cover the bills mostly, sometimes late, with almost nothing left over.
Well since he went to rehab I took over our finances, and got his W2 for taxes. Now I just want to yell, scream, throw things. He makes more then two and a half times what I thought he made. This is why were always broke? He spent that much money drinking! We have no savings left after his rehab bills and to actually see how much money went into bars and poker machines makes me wanna rage.
I guess I should be relived that now I know things are going to be better as long as he stays sober, but part of me still wants to ring his neck for how hard the last few years have been and how many lies I've heard over the bills.
At the moment, I'm attempting to not have arguments over things from the past when he was drinking and look to our future with him sober, but the more things that come out, the more angry I become. I'm still just in shock over how much he spent drinking himself into oblivion.
Sorry for the rant, just needed to vent.
Well since he went to rehab I took over our finances, and got his W2 for taxes. Now I just want to yell, scream, throw things. He makes more then two and a half times what I thought he made. This is why were always broke? He spent that much money drinking! We have no savings left after his rehab bills and to actually see how much money went into bars and poker machines makes me wanna rage.
I guess I should be relived that now I know things are going to be better as long as he stays sober, but part of me still wants to ring his neck for how hard the last few years have been and how many lies I've heard over the bills.
At the moment, I'm attempting to not have arguments over things from the past when he was drinking and look to our future with him sober, but the more things that come out, the more angry I become. I'm still just in shock over how much he spent drinking himself into oblivion.
Sorry for the rant, just needed to vent.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: SAN FRANCISCO
Posts: 1,176
I'm so sorry... I know I would be mad too!
I have no idea how much money my ex spent at bars, it was a lot, he never went to cheap places and bought cigars too. Then would complain about how he didn't have enough money to take me out to dinner, It's so ridiculous...
I have no idea how much money my ex spent at bars, it was a lot, he never went to cheap places and bought cigars too. Then would complain about how he didn't have enough money to take me out to dinner, It's so ridiculous...
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 32
Ugh. That must've been an awful shock. The nearly 40 year old A from my past had no children, had never been married and admitted in a rare moment of clarity that he should have lots of $$ in the bank, but had nothing to show for his years of working except his rusted 1995 truck. He drank and drugged it all away.
The silver lining for you is at least you aren't in the dark anymore about your finances. I sincerely wish you well sorting out your money situation.
The silver lining for you is at least you aren't in the dark anymore about your finances. I sincerely wish you well sorting out your money situation.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
Yikes, something similar happened with me.
My AH didn't make a ton, but he was really secretive about his paycheck and tight-fisted when it came to contributing to the household. I tried to push to see his pay stubs, but he always head reasons why I couldn't. Then I found out he was spending something like $400 a month at the liquor store for his secret stash, on top of what we were spending to drink at home together (before I knew about his alcoholism).
This is one of the biggest betrayals for me. All the lying and conniving, but what's worse is that I've always struggled financially and had to hustle -- sometimes at 1-2 additional jobs on top of my regular job -- to make ends meet. Then ol' Sallie Mae came calling, compounding the issue. I understand that this is how it goes. But my son and I really suffered because of this. My family too, who took pity on me and my constant confusion over why I was working so hard for so little, and loaned me money, which complicated our relationships.
Today my AH says he practicing a program and is in recovery, but this is one major piece of the puzzle that is missing when he talks about wanting to come home. To him, his job is about fulfilling his self-esteem, and he doesn't see working full-time or looking for jobs with good pay as an obligatory or standard thing for a married father of two with debt. Big problem.
In hindsight, even when we were dating, there were a lot of signs I should have paid attention to. When we dated, he'd just been fired from a good salaried position (red flag! but he already had a new, prestigious job), for which he had nothing to show. He also cashed out his 401K from that job for us to take a mini-vacation -- I was young and stupid and had no idea how 401Ks worked, but still. And while he lived alone, he maybe didn't have money for the electric bill, but he did have money to go to the bar or hang out at home with a handle of whiskey (or later, vodka). And his parents were always more than willing to help with his rent or whatever, an enabling issue that persists still.
I understand that you don't want to dredge up the past with him, but there will be organic opportunities to talk about this where you can let him know what you think. Additionally, you can decide for yourself whether you want to be with someone who treats you like this now or ever.
I'm beginning to sort through my financial wreckage, and while it could be a lot worse, I still have a lot of debris to clear, and a lot of debts to pay. No credit card debt though! I'm proud of that.
My AH didn't make a ton, but he was really secretive about his paycheck and tight-fisted when it came to contributing to the household. I tried to push to see his pay stubs, but he always head reasons why I couldn't. Then I found out he was spending something like $400 a month at the liquor store for his secret stash, on top of what we were spending to drink at home together (before I knew about his alcoholism).
This is one of the biggest betrayals for me. All the lying and conniving, but what's worse is that I've always struggled financially and had to hustle -- sometimes at 1-2 additional jobs on top of my regular job -- to make ends meet. Then ol' Sallie Mae came calling, compounding the issue. I understand that this is how it goes. But my son and I really suffered because of this. My family too, who took pity on me and my constant confusion over why I was working so hard for so little, and loaned me money, which complicated our relationships.
Today my AH says he practicing a program and is in recovery, but this is one major piece of the puzzle that is missing when he talks about wanting to come home. To him, his job is about fulfilling his self-esteem, and he doesn't see working full-time or looking for jobs with good pay as an obligatory or standard thing for a married father of two with debt. Big problem.
In hindsight, even when we were dating, there were a lot of signs I should have paid attention to. When we dated, he'd just been fired from a good salaried position (red flag! but he already had a new, prestigious job), for which he had nothing to show. He also cashed out his 401K from that job for us to take a mini-vacation -- I was young and stupid and had no idea how 401Ks worked, but still. And while he lived alone, he maybe didn't have money for the electric bill, but he did have money to go to the bar or hang out at home with a handle of whiskey (or later, vodka). And his parents were always more than willing to help with his rent or whatever, an enabling issue that persists still.
I understand that you don't want to dredge up the past with him, but there will be organic opportunities to talk about this where you can let him know what you think. Additionally, you can decide for yourself whether you want to be with someone who treats you like this now or ever.
I'm beginning to sort through my financial wreckage, and while it could be a lot worse, I still have a lot of debris to clear, and a lot of debts to pay. No credit card debt though! I'm proud of that.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
Well, being sober doesn't guarantee that he will not continue to blow money. Gambling can be an addiction too.
So, what are you planning to do about the finanaces in the future?
Sorry about the financial mess, hope that things continue to improve.
So, what are you planning to do about the finanaces in the future?
Sorry about the financial mess, hope that things continue to improve.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 18
Thanks for the responses. I feel like a fool for never getting how much his drinking had ruined our personal finances along with everything else. He does speak about his gambling in group, so he says, but he seems to have spent most of the money when he was just out drinking alone as extra entertainment in the machines. Living in Las Vegas, its a pretty common story.
I went back to college as an adult, took out my student loans to pay for it and will make my own income, and if he chooses to stop rehab or go back to the old way, at least I ll be able to support myself without him.
I know it's silly, just money, and a bit selfish sounding, but i worked for years while his company was starting up, at some point I thought the constant financial problems would stop. Finding out they should have stopped a long time ago just sent me to an unhappy place. I clip coupons and sale shop for grocery's to make sure we can afford the power bill and grocery's, he spends thousands on his habits and fun.
"I understand that you don't want to dredge up the past with him, but there will be organic opportunities to talk about this where you can let him know what you think. Additionally, you can decide for yourself whether you want to be with someone who treats you like this now or ever.
I'm beginning to sort through my financial wreckage, and while it could be a lot worse, I still have a lot of debris to clear, and a lot of debts to pay. No credit card debt though! I'm proud of that."
yes I do know at some point we are going to have to sit down and talk about all of this. I'm trying to give him the space he needs to deal with his own guilt over all of his past behavior. After he graduates his treatment program we plan on going to a marriage counselling to talk about a lot of the older problems that do need to be spoken about. I did want to let him finish his treatment program with out blowing up about things he did in the past. He just rounding the bend of 60 days sober, tomorrow actually, and beginning to feel a lot of pride in him self for it. I'm proud of him as well.
Gratz on the 0 credit card debt that's wonderful!!
I went back to college as an adult, took out my student loans to pay for it and will make my own income, and if he chooses to stop rehab or go back to the old way, at least I ll be able to support myself without him.
I know it's silly, just money, and a bit selfish sounding, but i worked for years while his company was starting up, at some point I thought the constant financial problems would stop. Finding out they should have stopped a long time ago just sent me to an unhappy place. I clip coupons and sale shop for grocery's to make sure we can afford the power bill and grocery's, he spends thousands on his habits and fun.
"I understand that you don't want to dredge up the past with him, but there will be organic opportunities to talk about this where you can let him know what you think. Additionally, you can decide for yourself whether you want to be with someone who treats you like this now or ever.
I'm beginning to sort through my financial wreckage, and while it could be a lot worse, I still have a lot of debris to clear, and a lot of debts to pay. No credit card debt though! I'm proud of that."
yes I do know at some point we are going to have to sit down and talk about all of this. I'm trying to give him the space he needs to deal with his own guilt over all of his past behavior. After he graduates his treatment program we plan on going to a marriage counselling to talk about a lot of the older problems that do need to be spoken about. I did want to let him finish his treatment program with out blowing up about things he did in the past. He just rounding the bend of 60 days sober, tomorrow actually, and beginning to feel a lot of pride in him self for it. I'm proud of him as well.
Gratz on the 0 credit card debt that's wonderful!!
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by RevivingOphelia 
I'd leave him. He lied and betrayed you.
He did not betray me, the addict did. If he began to drink again, I don't have the strength to put up with the addict anymore, but if he stays committed to his sobriety, we can work threw it we love one another more then anything.
I didn't leave when he was at his worst, I won't leave when he's working on being his best.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
Is he in an inpatient program? Do they have a family program? When my ABF was in patient, I was able to attend a family program at his facility. We were able to have some sessions together with his counselors. It helped us to get a few important issues out on the table while they were still able to work with him. That gave us a head start when he got home.
My ABF did alot of awful things when drunk. Since he's been in recovery (3 months now) it has been very different. I also made the choice to stay and work on the relationship as long as he works on "recovery"..not just sobriety. But I was clear before he came home that this was his last chance. I will not stay through a relapse if he chooses to take that path again. And everything has to be on the table. So far ...so good! In your situation, I guess I would expect to do the finances together moving forward, so everything is in the open.
I wish you both the best moving forward. One day at a time.
My ABF did alot of awful things when drunk. Since he's been in recovery (3 months now) it has been very different. I also made the choice to stay and work on the relationship as long as he works on "recovery"..not just sobriety. But I was clear before he came home that this was his last chance. I will not stay through a relapse if he chooses to take that path again. And everything has to be on the table. So far ...so good! In your situation, I guess I would expect to do the finances together moving forward, so everything is in the open.
I wish you both the best moving forward. One day at a time.
I'm no angel!
Join Date: May 2005
Location: tampa, fl
Posts: 6,728
If it were me, I would no longer comingle funds, protecting ones money is not silly. You will get to a time in your life when it cannot be replaced, your earning power will either diminish
or be non exsistant.
What will you do if he starts gambling heavy?
Take some time to read the stickeys at the top of this forum and cynical one's blogs, may
help you understand what you are actually dealing with, people with addiction issues can switch their DOC at the drop of a hat.
or be non exsistant.
What will you do if he starts gambling heavy?
Take some time to read the stickeys at the top of this forum and cynical one's blogs, may
help you understand what you are actually dealing with, people with addiction issues can switch their DOC at the drop of a hat.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 18
He did an Inpatient detox and is currently in an Intensive Out program. Weekly drug and alcohol tests, so far no surprises. The rehab center offers marriage counselling as after care so that's the next plan. He was a horrible mean drunk, yet such a wonderful sober man, we have a lot to talk threw. I just thought I knew all of the horrible things we needed to work out, and it came as a shock to find another. I hope this is the last thing that i was stupidly unaware of to find out.
This week is actually family week at the center. We are going together tonight.
I'm glad to hear your ABF is working threw things as well. Best of luck to you both.
This week is actually family week at the center. We are going together tonight.
I'm glad to hear your ABF is working threw things as well. Best of luck to you both.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by dollydo
If it were me, I would no longer comingle funds, protecting ones money is not silly. You will get to a time in your life when it cannot be replaced, your earning power will either diminish
or be non exsistant.
What will you do if he starts gambling heavy?
Take some time to read the stickeys at the top of this forum and cynical one's blogs, may
help you understand what you are actually dealing with, people with addiction issues can switch their DOC at the drop of a hat.
or be non exsistant.
What will you do if he starts gambling heavy?
Take some time to read the stickeys at the top of this forum and cynical one's blogs, may
help you understand what you are actually dealing with, people with addiction issues can switch their DOC at the drop of a hat.
you know what, that is probably a very good suggestion and something I think would help to keep me calm that he can't ever drink all of our funds away again.
thanks
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Yup, what's done is done, and you already knew he was not handling things well while he was drinking. Just think of this as the "after-shock" like when an earthquake hits.
I think taking action to protect your finances going forward, though, it a GREAT idea. Maybe encourage him to hire a bookkeeper to handle the business finances, and ask him to agree to give you full access to the books as part of rebuilding trust. Just a thought.
I think taking action to protect your finances going forward, though, it a GREAT idea. Maybe encourage him to hire a bookkeeper to handle the business finances, and ask him to agree to give you full access to the books as part of rebuilding trust. Just a thought.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 18
Originally Posted by LexieCat
I think taking action to protect your finances going forward, though, it a GREAT idea. Maybe encourage him to hire a bookkeeper to handle the business finances, and ask him to agree to give you full access to the books as part of rebuilding trust. Just a thought.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Ah, good deal. That's one less worry--I've seen a lot of alcoholics who wind up jammed up because of "creative accounting"--at least that isn't an issue.
Hopefully he continues to work hard at his recovery, and someday this will just be a piece of the story.
Hopefully he continues to work hard at his recovery, and someday this will just be a piece of the story.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Originally Posted by Amisi
As long as he stays sober, and we continue to work on our marriage, I wouldn't think of leaving him. I love him, despite everything, I love him.
He did not betray me, the addict did. If he began to drink again, I don't have the strength to put up with the addict anymore, but if he stays committed to his sobriety, we can work threw it we love one another more then anything.
I didn't leave when he was at his worst, I won't leave when he's working on being his best.
He did not betray me, the addict did. If he began to drink again, I don't have the strength to put up with the addict anymore, but if he stays committed to his sobriety, we can work threw it we love one another more then anything.
I didn't leave when he was at his worst, I won't leave when he's working on being his best.
Much like Amisi, I won't live with active addiction. If my wife is working hard on recovery and continues to get more well every month then why punish the past mistakes. I don't think you can reasonably blame the alcoholic for any bad decision they make while in the grip any more than you would blame someone who had a brain tumor for anything crazy they do. Blame and responsibility are different, we are all responsible for cleaning up the damage we do at our worst.
If my wife relapses in the future that would not trigger me to abandon her - it would cause an ultimatum though, rehab or out but no active addiction in a house where my kid and our kid lives. If she refused to get help and wandered off to where she could drink? Well, that's my bad dream but I know it could happen and have no idea how long that would continue before I gave up... because I decided to stop worrying unless it happens.
Its been 14 months since I kicked my beloved out and told her she wasn't welcome back if she wasn't willing to get help. It ripped my heart out to do it but it was the first thing I did 'right' after a lot of well intended but utterly misguided enabling. She's steadily gotten better since then and just as the downward spiral accelerates when they are using her upward trajectory gets steeper all the time. She's focusing very hard on not judging, resenting or focusing on negative thoughts and she's a very devoted mom to our newborn and does her best to be a loving and kind wife even when we are on 3 hours of sleep due to the baby...
Oh... and she lied and she betrayed my trust when she lapsed.
None of this is simple for any of us or we would never have googled ourselves over here. I wrestled hard with the in or out question and am glad I decided on in. Tomorrow? Let's see what it brings before we decide what we'd do or not do.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 178
You're allowed to rant here, so don't worry about that. And you're not being selfish either. It's true, money is just money, and people do tend to get overly caught up in it at times.
But that's not the problem here. It's the principle of what he did and how his problem has affected you. It's good to hear he is sorting himself out though, and that you have taken over the finances. And I totally understand why you choose to stay with him after that. He's getting help, so that's the most important thing, and the same reason I stay with my partner.
My partner is in a fair bit of debt on account of many reasons, not least his drinking (he's now quit). Besides the fact he didn't work a lot of the time, when he drank his money went on drinking (his and round after round for others), and decreased inhibitions when it comes to being generous with his finances. I don't want to go on too much of a MIL rant here or I may not stop, but his biggest debt is because he bought his mother a huge house years ago because she claimed she couldn't afford it. She works full time but prefers to spend her money on shoes and handbags, booze and cigarettes, rather than her own mortgage repayments for an unnecessarily huge house with a luxury bathroom that was extended and renovated at her request (grrrr....), and used to call on him all the time he wasn't working to run errands for her and lend (give) her money. And he just did it! That debt is looming over both of our heads now, and I have no idea what to do or say to him about it. If I mention it, I will seem callous, but, in the end, it is my money he funnelled towards her house and their endless booze and smoking sessions inside it. Okay... sorry about that... rant over. See... we all rant here.
He now owes me several thousand dollars, which I would be happy to write off if he had really needed it for something real, but I realise now it was all pissed away either directly or indirectly on account of his drinking, while we barely managed to scrape by (at one stage the two of us were living in a tiny one-person studio flat without anything resembling the aforementioned luxury bathroom.... grrr....). At the time, the endless borrowing might have seemed like it was for reasonable things, but the whole reason he couldn't afford those things himself was because he wasn't motivated to work to earn the money, and because he wasted what money he did have. People are different, and I am not the sort of person to ever ask for money, so the fact that he did so easily is strange for me. It made me extremely angry when I discovered I was busting a gut working three jobs while trying to study my masters, while he pretended to garden with his boozy mates yet all they seemed to do was sit around drinking and smoking, and then had the gall to interrupt me to ask for lunch. EXTREMELY angry.
However, since he quit drinking, he has now taken a job. He is finally getting his finances together and working towards paying off his debts. I love his generosity, but I hope his clearer head will prevent himself from being taken advantage of again. The fact I will soon be the one doing the finances will help in that respect. The anger I have felt for being taken as a fool and, moreover, for allowing myself to be, is still there, but dissolving. He is taking the right steps now, and despite the bumps, like you, I would never leave him as long as he is doing what he can to right the wrongs in his life.
But that's not the problem here. It's the principle of what he did and how his problem has affected you. It's good to hear he is sorting himself out though, and that you have taken over the finances. And I totally understand why you choose to stay with him after that. He's getting help, so that's the most important thing, and the same reason I stay with my partner.
My partner is in a fair bit of debt on account of many reasons, not least his drinking (he's now quit). Besides the fact he didn't work a lot of the time, when he drank his money went on drinking (his and round after round for others), and decreased inhibitions when it comes to being generous with his finances. I don't want to go on too much of a MIL rant here or I may not stop, but his biggest debt is because he bought his mother a huge house years ago because she claimed she couldn't afford it. She works full time but prefers to spend her money on shoes and handbags, booze and cigarettes, rather than her own mortgage repayments for an unnecessarily huge house with a luxury bathroom that was extended and renovated at her request (grrrr....), and used to call on him all the time he wasn't working to run errands for her and lend (give) her money. And he just did it! That debt is looming over both of our heads now, and I have no idea what to do or say to him about it. If I mention it, I will seem callous, but, in the end, it is my money he funnelled towards her house and their endless booze and smoking sessions inside it. Okay... sorry about that... rant over. See... we all rant here.
He now owes me several thousand dollars, which I would be happy to write off if he had really needed it for something real, but I realise now it was all pissed away either directly or indirectly on account of his drinking, while we barely managed to scrape by (at one stage the two of us were living in a tiny one-person studio flat without anything resembling the aforementioned luxury bathroom.... grrr....). At the time, the endless borrowing might have seemed like it was for reasonable things, but the whole reason he couldn't afford those things himself was because he wasn't motivated to work to earn the money, and because he wasted what money he did have. People are different, and I am not the sort of person to ever ask for money, so the fact that he did so easily is strange for me. It made me extremely angry when I discovered I was busting a gut working three jobs while trying to study my masters, while he pretended to garden with his boozy mates yet all they seemed to do was sit around drinking and smoking, and then had the gall to interrupt me to ask for lunch. EXTREMELY angry.
However, since he quit drinking, he has now taken a job. He is finally getting his finances together and working towards paying off his debts. I love his generosity, but I hope his clearer head will prevent himself from being taken advantage of again. The fact I will soon be the one doing the finances will help in that respect. The anger I have felt for being taken as a fool and, moreover, for allowing myself to be, is still there, but dissolving. He is taking the right steps now, and despite the bumps, like you, I would never leave him as long as he is doing what he can to right the wrongs in his life.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Right here, right now!
Posts: 3,424
My loved one struggled with alcohol and with money also.
I honestly am not sure if he had gotten sober if the money situation would have changed for him. I suspect that it might have improved but not resolved.
The reason I say this is that for some reason with finances, in a way I could not around his behavior I "hoped for hte best and prepared for the worse."
For me this meant that we had a joint account in which we each contributed the same amount each month toward joint expenses (we made similar amounts) and then we each had individual accounts in which was "my" money to spend as I wanted.
I needed this because when we were engaged, but not married he on a whim bought a new car. His old one had needed some repairs, it got fixed he drove off the lot and the same light came on so he drove it down the street to a new car dealership and bought a new one. We were not married so it was not my money but he told me after he bought the new car what he had done. I was so fearful of his attitude toward money after that that this is the only thing that I could think of to work.
I am glad I did....when it all hit the fan I had enough in savings to take care of myself. It was not the most romantic way of being, but I was able to take care of my needs this way and the financial needs of the relationship.
I honestly am not sure if he had gotten sober if the money situation would have changed for him. I suspect that it might have improved but not resolved.
The reason I say this is that for some reason with finances, in a way I could not around his behavior I "hoped for hte best and prepared for the worse."
For me this meant that we had a joint account in which we each contributed the same amount each month toward joint expenses (we made similar amounts) and then we each had individual accounts in which was "my" money to spend as I wanted.
I needed this because when we were engaged, but not married he on a whim bought a new car. His old one had needed some repairs, it got fixed he drove off the lot and the same light came on so he drove it down the street to a new car dealership and bought a new one. We were not married so it was not my money but he told me after he bought the new car what he had done. I was so fearful of his attitude toward money after that that this is the only thing that I could think of to work.
I am glad I did....when it all hit the fan I had enough in savings to take care of myself. It was not the most romantic way of being, but I was able to take care of my needs this way and the financial needs of the relationship.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
For me this meant that we had a joint account in which we each contributed the same amount each month toward joint expenses (we made similar amounts) and then we each had individual accounts in which was "my" money to spend as I wanted.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
