Shame Dumping
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Shame Dumping
One thing I have been having difficulty with is all of this shame and guilt dumping that happened in the relationship with axbf. I realize now if he does indeed have narcissistic personality disorder this is not uncommon.
I think because I have social anxiety this is a particularly painful issue for me.
I keep trying to tell myself that I just wanted to be accepted for who I was instead of being yelled at all of the time for not being the person he wanted me to be. Being myself is not a crime.
I have not had an easy life and have suffered from bouts of depression and he used all of these things against me in the most vicious personal attack I have ever been on the receiving end of. I realize he did this after I confronted him about his lying and secret drinking so it was a defense mechanism of sorts... he said I attacked his character, so I guess he felt that I needed to be character assassinated? still I am having problems not internalizing it.
Yesterday I read a blog that said we should mentally picture ourselves bundling up the shame and giving it back to the person who dumped it on us. I have been trying but it's still hard. How will I ever be able to open up and trust again?
Anyone else managed to find a way to overcome this? My usual mental gymnastics don't seem to be helping me. I'd like to move on with my life already...
I think because I have social anxiety this is a particularly painful issue for me.
I keep trying to tell myself that I just wanted to be accepted for who I was instead of being yelled at all of the time for not being the person he wanted me to be. Being myself is not a crime.
I have not had an easy life and have suffered from bouts of depression and he used all of these things against me in the most vicious personal attack I have ever been on the receiving end of. I realize he did this after I confronted him about his lying and secret drinking so it was a defense mechanism of sorts... he said I attacked his character, so I guess he felt that I needed to be character assassinated? still I am having problems not internalizing it.
Yesterday I read a blog that said we should mentally picture ourselves bundling up the shame and giving it back to the person who dumped it on us. I have been trying but it's still hard. How will I ever be able to open up and trust again?
Anyone else managed to find a way to overcome this? My usual mental gymnastics don't seem to be helping me. I'd like to move on with my life already...
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Zig, do you see someone to work through this stuff? I found that to be most beneficial; just talking it through and being validated by someone else that yes, in fact, what I got was abuse. And yes, it happened because addictions protect their perimeters at any and all costs. It wasn't about me, it was about the addiction.
Internalizing that removed any emotion left by the words. And it made it easier to write off as crap coming out of an intoxicated person.
Hon, don't let this guy define you. That's a choice you get to make. That's your power, your control. Sit down and write out all the great things about yourself, and let the rest go. Or have a ritual, like writing all the terrible things he said to you and about you and then burn the paper in your fireplace. Feel it, experience it, and then set it on fire!
Take it one day at a time - and each day tell yourself you will not let an addict define you as a person. Only you get to do that. Say it every day. Pretty soon, you'll realize you aren't just saying it, you are living it.
Internalizing that removed any emotion left by the words. And it made it easier to write off as crap coming out of an intoxicated person.
Hon, don't let this guy define you. That's a choice you get to make. That's your power, your control. Sit down and write out all the great things about yourself, and let the rest go. Or have a ritual, like writing all the terrible things he said to you and about you and then burn the paper in your fireplace. Feel it, experience it, and then set it on fire!
Take it one day at a time - and each day tell yourself you will not let an addict define you as a person. Only you get to do that. Say it every day. Pretty soon, you'll realize you aren't just saying it, you are living it.
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Hi Tuffgirl,
Yes I am seeing a therapist. I have been doing weekly therapy sessions since October and I do feel better, I am just having a difficult time getting over this hurdle.
What you have said is helpful, thank you.
Yes I am seeing a therapist. I have been doing weekly therapy sessions since October and I do feel better, I am just having a difficult time getting over this hurdle.
What you have said is helpful, thank you.
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Ziggy-
I have struggled with related issues and the work around it has not been straightforward.
For me I would clear a layer (usually around my exAH), then a bit later another layer would come etc.
Finally the last two to three weeks what has happened is that I have finally cleared where it all started from (and though painful, not nearly as hard as some of the other layers).
My codependent behaviors have been around since childhood....that is finally what I needed to clear (and the reasons they were there) for me to re-frame the structure of my relationship with my ex. Though I have not determined all of the ramifications of it yet....in all honesty this might be the reason I had to be in the relationship....to have it be painful enough to be willing to do that work.
Sorry that sounds awful, but I feel so much more settled and centered now that I have done this work around it.
My encouragement is talk to your therapist about the frustration coming up around this topic....and be gentle with yourself that it is not cleared in a visit or two.
I have struggled with related issues and the work around it has not been straightforward.
For me I would clear a layer (usually around my exAH), then a bit later another layer would come etc.
Finally the last two to three weeks what has happened is that I have finally cleared where it all started from (and though painful, not nearly as hard as some of the other layers).
My codependent behaviors have been around since childhood....that is finally what I needed to clear (and the reasons they were there) for me to re-frame the structure of my relationship with my ex. Though I have not determined all of the ramifications of it yet....in all honesty this might be the reason I had to be in the relationship....to have it be painful enough to be willing to do that work.
Sorry that sounds awful, but I feel so much more settled and centered now that I have done this work around it.
My encouragement is talk to your therapist about the frustration coming up around this topic....and be gentle with yourself that it is not cleared in a visit or two.
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LifeRecovery,
Thank you -- that is encouraging...
The therapist tells me I probably wouldn't have gotten into a relationship with someone who was so abusive if I had better boundaries and a better sense of self-esteem. I can't help but despise him sometimes, but perhaps it will give way to a better sense of understanding myself.
Thank you -- that is encouraging...
The therapist tells me I probably wouldn't have gotten into a relationship with someone who was so abusive if I had better boundaries and a better sense of self-esteem. I can't help but despise him sometimes, but perhaps it will give way to a better sense of understanding myself.
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I'm not sure it's the same thing, but when RAH was actively drinking, he was able to use not just my weaknesses, but my strengths as weapons against me. He had a way of twisting things that left my head spinning. This was in the days before I understood how much of a drinking problem he had so I felt like these attacks just kept coming out of nowhere. (Now, in hindsight, I can see it was him deflecting attention away from him & onto me & starting petty arguments to keep me away from the real issues.) I didn't really have major self-esteem issues, but I definitely developed them being in a relationship with an active A.
Finally I just got MAD. My anger took hold & I started to sit down & dissect the things he was saying & realized they weren't true & that I had really known that all along. I'll never forget it simply because it all came tumbling out of me while I was having a conversation with my BFF..... listening to myself defend myself against these slings & arrows I started to finally HEAR myself. I started running through the list of accusations, disproved it & at the end I was at full pitch saying, "WHO does he think HE is, 'cuz it's OBVIOUS I'm a GOOD CATCH!"
Well...... we couldn't help dissolving into giggles which helped diffuse my anger at the moment, but the truth was there in my face. To this day, BFF tells me that should be engraved on my tombstone.... "Here lies FireSprite, she was a GOOD CATCH!"
I had to remind myself about this revelation often, especially when things got much worse before they got better.
Finally I just got MAD. My anger took hold & I started to sit down & dissect the things he was saying & realized they weren't true & that I had really known that all along. I'll never forget it simply because it all came tumbling out of me while I was having a conversation with my BFF..... listening to myself defend myself against these slings & arrows I started to finally HEAR myself. I started running through the list of accusations, disproved it & at the end I was at full pitch saying, "WHO does he think HE is, 'cuz it's OBVIOUS I'm a GOOD CATCH!"
Well...... we couldn't help dissolving into giggles which helped diffuse my anger at the moment, but the truth was there in my face. To this day, BFF tells me that should be engraved on my tombstone.... "Here lies FireSprite, she was a GOOD CATCH!"
I had to remind myself about this revelation often, especially when things got much worse before they got better.
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Thanks fire sprite.
I know what kind of a person he is, maligning others is a way for him to feel good about himself. Why do I even care anymore, I just wish I had never met him.
I know what kind of a person he is, maligning others is a way for him to feel good about himself. Why do I even care anymore, I just wish I had never met him.
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Ziggy, for me it just took time. It took a long time to build up the BS in my psyche, and it took a long time to break it down again. Though -- and this is hopeful -- not nearly AS long!
For the first six months or so I was in therapy I was in crisis mode all the time as one discovery after another felled me to my knees. Well, falling apart turned out to actually be the easy part of the whole process. Then began the slow and purposeful work of rebuilding my self-image from the inside out, not as the five-year-old trying to survive in a terrifying and unstable environment, but as the grown woman who owned her mistakes and bad choices and was ready to try something new. Every week I wanted to know, "Aren't I done here? I feel so much better." And every week my therapist gently suggested we keep going and see what happened. Of course she was right. It was five years before she said to me, "Do you sometimes feel like you have to search for things to talk about in here?"
Anyhoo, point being, it takes time. It takes more time than we think it will. It feels like it takes too MUCH time, but it doesn't. It takes what it takes, and it's worth every second.
For the first six months or so I was in therapy I was in crisis mode all the time as one discovery after another felled me to my knees. Well, falling apart turned out to actually be the easy part of the whole process. Then began the slow and purposeful work of rebuilding my self-image from the inside out, not as the five-year-old trying to survive in a terrifying and unstable environment, but as the grown woman who owned her mistakes and bad choices and was ready to try something new. Every week I wanted to know, "Aren't I done here? I feel so much better." And every week my therapist gently suggested we keep going and see what happened. Of course she was right. It was five years before she said to me, "Do you sometimes feel like you have to search for things to talk about in here?"
Anyhoo, point being, it takes time. It takes more time than we think it will. It feels like it takes too MUCH time, but it doesn't. It takes what it takes, and it's worth every second.
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((((Ziggy)))
There is a book I picked up but have not read , only flipped through, today actually, so this post is kind of timely.
Facing Shame, by Merle A Fossum and Marilyn Fossum
From what I have thumbed through, it looks really good.
It is specifically written for families in recovery.
Just thought I would pass it along.
You are doing great work, I have had a lot of shame as well. It is not as strong as it used to be, I bought the book because I am the kind of person that feels better when I see how it works if you will.
love to you Katie
There is a book I picked up but have not read , only flipped through, today actually, so this post is kind of timely.
Facing Shame, by Merle A Fossum and Marilyn Fossum
From what I have thumbed through, it looks really good.
It is specifically written for families in recovery.
Just thought I would pass it along.
You are doing great work, I have had a lot of shame as well. It is not as strong as it used to be, I bought the book because I am the kind of person that feels better when I see how it works if you will.
love to you Katie
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That's been a really hard thing for me too. Because of all the guilt/shame dumping, I could never really see things clearly. Was I wrong? Was he wrong? What should I learn from all this? It's really confusing.
Finally I got to the point where i was like, "ok, it doesn't really matter. yes, i have made mistakes in the past. i am not perfect. BUT i am rebuilding myself, and making myself a healthy person. I involved myself with someone who was unhealthy and destructive. I too became unhealthy destructive"
The only thing that matters now, is what you do in the future. What you can do for yourself to make yourself happier and to live a better life. For me, I had to accept the fact that I was abused by this man but I wouldn't let him continue to impact me negatively in my life. Not sure if you experienced any sort of abuse, but an excellent workbook I bought was called "healing from the trauma of a abuse for women" I bought it for $20 off amazon and it has been so so helpful in learning how to be me again.
Your posts have been really helfpul for me, so thank you for that. Hope any/some of this can help you in return.
Finally I got to the point where i was like, "ok, it doesn't really matter. yes, i have made mistakes in the past. i am not perfect. BUT i am rebuilding myself, and making myself a healthy person. I involved myself with someone who was unhealthy and destructive. I too became unhealthy destructive"
The only thing that matters now, is what you do in the future. What you can do for yourself to make yourself happier and to live a better life. For me, I had to accept the fact that I was abused by this man but I wouldn't let him continue to impact me negatively in my life. Not sure if you experienced any sort of abuse, but an excellent workbook I bought was called "healing from the trauma of a abuse for women" I bought it for $20 off amazon and it has been so so helpful in learning how to be me again.
Your posts have been really helfpul for me, so thank you for that. Hope any/some of this can help you in return.
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Originally Posted by bailey17 
The only thing that matters now, is what you do in the future. What you can do for yourself to make yourself happier and to live a better life. For me, I had to accept the fact that I was abused by this man but I wouldn't let him continue to impact me negatively in my life. Not sure if you experienced any sort of abuse, but an excellent workbook I bought was called "healing from the trauma of a abuse for women" I bought it for $20 off amazon and it has been so so helpful in learning how to be me again.
Your posts have been really helfpul for me, so thank you for that. Hope any/some of this can help you in return.
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Originally Posted by SparkleKitty
Ziggy, for me it just took time. It took a long time to build up the BS in my psyche, and it took a long time to break it down again. Though -- and this is hopeful -- not nearly AS long!
For the first six months or so I was in therapy I was in crisis mode all the time as one discovery after another felled me to my knees. Well, falling apart turned out to actually be the easy part of the whole process. Then began the slow and purposeful work of rebuilding my self-image from the inside out, not as the five-year-old trying to survive in a terrifying and unstable environment, but as the grown woman who owned her mistakes and bad choices and was ready to try something new. Every week I wanted to know, "Aren't I done here? I feel so much better." And every week my therapist gently suggested we keep going and see what happened. Of course she was right. It was five years before she said to me, "Do you sometimes feel like you have to search for things to talk about in here?"
Anyhoo, point being, it takes time. It takes more time than we think it will. It feels like it takes too MUCH time, but it doesn't. It takes what it takes, and it's worth every second.
For the first six months or so I was in therapy I was in crisis mode all the time as one discovery after another felled me to my knees. Well, falling apart turned out to actually be the easy part of the whole process. Then began the slow and purposeful work of rebuilding my self-image from the inside out, not as the five-year-old trying to survive in a terrifying and unstable environment, but as the grown woman who owned her mistakes and bad choices and was ready to try something new. Every week I wanted to know, "Aren't I done here? I feel so much better." And every week my therapist gently suggested we keep going and see what happened. Of course she was right. It was five years before she said to me, "Do you sometimes feel like you have to search for things to talk about in here?"
Anyhoo, point being, it takes time. It takes more time than we think it will. It feels like it takes too MUCH time, but it doesn't. It takes what it takes, and it's worth every second.
) I really can't afford it but I will keep going as long as I need to. I was there a few years ago. I know I have issues. The therapist has suggested if I was happier being single I wouldn't attract people into my life who are hurtful. I think one mistake I have made is trying to talk to the ex -- of course I thought after we broke up and some time had passed he would become a bit more cordial, but no... he is still angry and blames me for everything. No contact will definitely help me too.
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Hi Ziggy
Put yourself in this guy's shoes. He's working really really hard on not facing himself, seeing his own shameful reality. Someone calls him on it, someone threatens his carefully built defences. If he allows it to get to him he will be faced with stark reality and he's not going to let that happen, so he goes on a desperate attack. The truth of what he says is irrelevant, apart from the fact that he'll go for your vulnerabilities.
Possibly the best defence if you can manage it is humour. We all have things in our characters that we'd like to be different, but I find it helps to laugh at myself a bit. It's not that serious.
Put yourself in this guy's shoes. He's working really really hard on not facing himself, seeing his own shameful reality. Someone calls him on it, someone threatens his carefully built defences. If he allows it to get to him he will be faced with stark reality and he's not going to let that happen, so he goes on a desperate attack. The truth of what he says is irrelevant, apart from the fact that he'll go for your vulnerabilities.
Possibly the best defence if you can manage it is humour. We all have things in our characters that we'd like to be different, but I find it helps to laugh at myself a bit. It's not that serious.
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Originally Posted by FeelingGreat
Hi Ziggy
Put yourself in this guy's shoes. He's working really really hard on not facing himself, seeing his own shameful reality. Someone calls him on it, someone threatens his carefully built defences. If he allows it to get to him he will be faced with stark reality and he's not going to let that happen, so he goes on a desperate attack. The truth of what he says is irrelevant, apart from the fact that he'll go for your vulnerabilities.
Possibly the best defence if you can manage it is humour. We all have things in our characters that we'd like to be different, but I find it helps to laugh at myself a bit. It's not that serious.
Put yourself in this guy's shoes. He's working really really hard on not facing himself, seeing his own shameful reality. Someone calls him on it, someone threatens his carefully built defences. If he allows it to get to him he will be faced with stark reality and he's not going to let that happen, so he goes on a desperate attack. The truth of what he says is irrelevant, apart from the fact that he'll go for your vulnerabilities.
Possibly the best defence if you can manage it is humour. We all have things in our characters that we'd like to be different, but I find it helps to laugh at myself a bit. It's not that serious.
Once he even told me if you get into a fight with someone, you call the police before the other person can and feign innocence. I never get into confrontations where the police even need to be called. He is truly a troubled and warped human being. Maybe realizing that will help me move on.
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Originally Posted by ZiggyB
IHe insists on telling everyone I am to blame and even made up stories about me. And I insist on accepting the shame and the guilt, evidently. I am trying to work on that.
For example, I met a seemingly great man a month ago. We started dating and talking everyday. But there were a few things that happened that caught my intuition and the red flags went up. Two nights ago, it happened again. This time, it was enough. So I ended it yesterday. He came back at me full of excuses as to why he would act in this particular way. Didn't matter, the end result is the same.
I know I did the right thing. I know if I asked all my friends and posted about it here, everyone would tell me I did the right thing. But that little girl inside feels rejected, as if he would have treated me differently if he really liked me.
Emotions don't always make sense. The difference now is I can trust my intuition, accept my emotions for what they really are (disappointment), and not listen to the little girl inside and all her BS self doubts. I refuse to internalize what I know isn't mine. I just won't let it happen. I do believe its a choice we make.
Keep your chin up. You know your truth.
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl
For example, I met a seemingly great man a month ago. We started dating and talking everyday. But there were a few things that happened that caught my intuition and the red flags went up. Two nights ago, it happened again. This time, it was enough. So I ended it yesterday. He came back at me full of excuses as to why he would act in this particular way. Didn't matter, the end result is the same.
I know I did the right thing. I know if I asked all my friends and posted about it here, everyone would tell me I did the right thing. But that little girl inside feels rejected, as if he would have treated me differently if he really liked me.
Keep your chin up. You know your truth.
If there is one thing I have learned from this experience it's that I can't allow anyone to abuse me or put up with disrespectful treatment in the future. At the first sign I will be out the door.
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My AH tries to hurt me in this way, too. When he feels like his drinking is threatened in some way, he will "throw daggers."
One time, I was just asking to be paid attention to because I was lonely. He stopped showing me affection probably 18 months ago. I was asking for a connection that didn't fit in with the disease and he seemed to be threatened by that.
You know what he said? He told me that I was "emotionally ********." This is an attempted stab in the heart for me because I had very little social contact for much of my teens and twenties due to a prolonged illness and ended up deeply unsure about how other people worked. I was unsure how to make myself likeable and acceptable to other people and tended to hide away even after the illness got better.
So, he kicked me where he thought it would hurt. But it wasn't even so premeditated as that. It was more a reflex for him, a response from a wounded dog.
By this point, I had gone to individual therapy a lot and done a lot of work on being compassionate with myself and gently coming to learn my own boundaries and capabilities. And forgiving myself for not knowing how people work!
So these daggers? They whiz right by my head. I hear them go by, but they are not me. (And they are not you either!) I observe their energy and their cause, but instead of being hurt, I feel sad that he has this tasmanian devil response against my sincere pleas for intimacy.
The facts that there are so many barriers to love and closeness breaks my heart. It's sad. But it's not crippling to my sense of myself, like taking daggers personally would be.
When he says things that hurt you, consider this: It hurts so much because it echoes things you actually think about yourself. It hurts if he tells you you suck at something because when you look inward to confirm or deny the truth of what he said, there's something in you that confirms it. Some message that you carry from some other time and place. Perhaps if you could hone in on it and work through that (approach that bit of yourself with compassion), you would be more immune to his attacks.
The alcoholic has a somewhat parallel system happening: He carries so much shame that almost anything could trigger an unbearable look inward and confirm to him what he already believes: that he's kind of a sh*t. He will do anything to avoid this inward look, hence the daggers.
Take care. My therapist alway says, "Be kind to yourself."
One time, I was just asking to be paid attention to because I was lonely. He stopped showing me affection probably 18 months ago. I was asking for a connection that didn't fit in with the disease and he seemed to be threatened by that.
You know what he said? He told me that I was "emotionally ********." This is an attempted stab in the heart for me because I had very little social contact for much of my teens and twenties due to a prolonged illness and ended up deeply unsure about how other people worked. I was unsure how to make myself likeable and acceptable to other people and tended to hide away even after the illness got better.
So, he kicked me where he thought it would hurt. But it wasn't even so premeditated as that. It was more a reflex for him, a response from a wounded dog.
By this point, I had gone to individual therapy a lot and done a lot of work on being compassionate with myself and gently coming to learn my own boundaries and capabilities. And forgiving myself for not knowing how people work!
So these daggers? They whiz right by my head. I hear them go by, but they are not me. (And they are not you either!) I observe their energy and their cause, but instead of being hurt, I feel sad that he has this tasmanian devil response against my sincere pleas for intimacy.
The facts that there are so many barriers to love and closeness breaks my heart. It's sad. But it's not crippling to my sense of myself, like taking daggers personally would be.
When he says things that hurt you, consider this: It hurts so much because it echoes things you actually think about yourself. It hurts if he tells you you suck at something because when you look inward to confirm or deny the truth of what he said, there's something in you that confirms it. Some message that you carry from some other time and place. Perhaps if you could hone in on it and work through that (approach that bit of yourself with compassion), you would be more immune to his attacks.
The alcoholic has a somewhat parallel system happening: He carries so much shame that almost anything could trigger an unbearable look inward and confirm to him what he already believes: that he's kind of a sh*t. He will do anything to avoid this inward look, hence the daggers.
Take care. My therapist alway says, "Be kind to yourself."
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Originally Posted by ZiggyB
5 years?? Oh no! I was hoping I'd be done with therapy soon. ) I really can't afford it but I will keep going as long as I need to. I was there a few years ago. I know I have issues. The therapist has suggested if I was happier being single I wouldn't attract people into my life who are hurtful.
I think one mistake I have made is trying to talk to the ex -- of course I thought after we broke up and some time had passed he would become a bit more cordial, but no... he is still angry and blames me for everything. No contact will definitely help me too.
) I really can't afford it but I will keep going as long as I need to. I was there a few years ago. I know I have issues. The therapist has suggested if I was happier being single I wouldn't attract people into my life who are hurtful. I think one mistake I have made is trying to talk to the ex -- of course I thought after we broke up and some time had passed he would become a bit more cordial, but no... he is still angry and blames me for everything. No contact will definitely help me too.
I had to stop at some point beating myself up for how long it has taken. I have started to realize that my own well being is the best gift I can give to myself.
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Thanks kale.
I don't really like criticism and the one thing my x was great at was pointing out all my flaws. I even told him before I grew up with a very critical and angry father, and could he please take it easy on me?
I don't think someone who loves you should be wanting to tear you down all the time. Unfortunately I fell in love with him before I realized what a tyrant he could be. Even when I tried talking to him after the relationship was over he kept yammering on about "my flaws". Gee, I can't imagine how flawed you need to be to rip someone else to shreds on a continual basis over petty nonsense!
I will imagine the arrows whizzing overhead. Since we are no longer together I am trying to build myself up and forgetting about whatever dic*ish things he has said to me. I need to move on!
I don't really like criticism and the one thing my x was great at was pointing out all my flaws. I even told him before I grew up with a very critical and angry father, and could he please take it easy on me?
I don't think someone who loves you should be wanting to tear you down all the time. Unfortunately I fell in love with him before I realized what a tyrant he could be. Even when I tried talking to him after the relationship was over he kept yammering on about "my flaws". Gee, I can't imagine how flawed you need to be to rip someone else to shreds on a continual basis over petty nonsense!
I will imagine the arrows whizzing overhead. Since we are no longer together I am trying to build myself up and forgetting about whatever dic*ish things he has said to me. I need to move on!
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