Audrey1

Okay, so I don't mean to sound like a complete idiot when I ask this question so bear with me.

I realise there's a genetic component, and that they have been exposed to drinking as children and led to believe this is normal... up to a point.

But I just don't understand why the children of alcoholic parents don't do everything in their power to avoid turning out like their parents. Clearly this depends on what sort of alcoholic parent they have. I'm sure if the parent was a functioning, non-abusive alcoholic the problem isn't so clear, but if the parent is a non-functioning abusive alcoholic, shouldn't that scare them into swearing off the drink?

Yesterday, we went to visit RABF's mother. She happens to live right next door to her estranged husband and his new family (long and ridiculous story). Before we got there, RABF warned me not to be scared if we ran into his father as his drinking had got out of control again. Luckily we didn't, but were told later that he is now in hospital. When he is finally released, he will have to spend time in a psychiatric hospital, and some kind of halfway house or something like that (bit unclear due to the language barrier), before going back home.

Apparently this happens about once a year with this man. He starts drinking more heavily, then it becomes his full-time job. He doesn't work, just drinks for weeks on end. As RABF's mother didn't work while they were married and his father's current wife (who he now has two little kids with) doesn't work, there's no income coming in during this period, which can last for months in total. His aggression and abuse increases, and he just lies on the couch all day drinking. Eventually, his organs start to shut down as he also doesn't eat, and he has to go to hospital. And so starts the process.

When I heard all the gory details, I was incredibly angry about the fact RABF had to grow up with this, and that his step-brother and sister are dealing with it now too. I realise it's easy for me to say this, and I am not casting judgement on the people who stay with such alcoholics, but I just can't fathom why his mother or new wife continue to put themselves and their children through this year after year. Even when he's not drinking heavily he's abusive.

And I cannot for the life of me understand how RABF can have always had such an aversion to ever becoming anything like his father, yet almost seemed make a point of getting as drunk as possible every time he drank. What did he think was going to happen?

Thankfully, this recent incident with his father (although they are estranged he unfortunately ran into him when he was a slobbering mess last week) has really strengthened his resolve to stay sober. He was almost white when he told me about all of this and reiterated how happy he was to have made his decision. BUT, why is this realisation only coming now? What did he think was going to happen if he made drinking his competitive sport of choice?

Sorry for the rant, but all this makes me very confused.

ReflectingOnMe

I think as adolescents they start drinking to be social. the adolescent brain isnt able to foresee the long term effects/consequences.

FeelingGreat

My totally unscientific theory is that lots of behaviour we see as children becomes imprinted on our brains, then we find ourselves as adults acting in a way we never thought we would. Children are programmed to be sponges.

redatlanta

Perhaps because as horrible, awful, scary and so forth that growing up in an alcoholic home may be its your "normal" if its your life. Parenting = teaching. Setting examples, as children and young adults we emulate what we see.

Its not just that they become alcoholics many do not - they become involved with them often marrying one, or two or three.

hamabi

You're wondering why the children of alcoholics choose to become alcoholics, and why they don't instead choose to be non-alcoholic, which is the better choice.

Ok.

Picture all the alcoholics in the world who now live or who have ever lived in the past 5,000 years on a big blue field. Next to it picture a green field of equal size that's empty. The green field contains all the people who chose to be alcoholic.

LexieCat

Nobody knows exactly what makes someone become an alcoholic. Seems like the best theory is that there is a genetic and a social component, and the genetics seem to go across a spectrum. I know some alcoholics (I think my first husband is one) who swear they had an abnormal physical reaction and were alcoholic from the very first drink. I believe them. There are also some people for whom it sneaks up on them gradually. That's how I was--I had some signs and tendencies, but it did not go out of control until much later in life.

NOBODY chooses to become an alcoholic. While it's true that you would never become an active alcoholic if your lips never touched alcohol, it's pretty pervasive in our society and few people who are not members of religions that ban alcohol never try it even once.

Not to mention the fact that many children of alcoholics do NOT become alcoholics. Isn't the tendency of most of us to assume we won't be just like our parents? It isn't a foregone conclusion. I don't know many people who start out in life patterning their behavior to avoid a POSSIBLE genetic predisposition to a particular condition.

dollydo

As an adult I lived what I learned as a child. I didn't become an alcoholic, yet i did marry them, just as my alcoholic mother did, my brother did the same.

My predisposition gene comes into play in two ways, I became a work-alcoholic and could very easily become addicted to gambling, if I didn't have the will power and sense to keep it in check.

IMO, when boys are young they want to be like their "Daddys", a fireman, a teacher whatever and I think that they are for some reason even more predisposed to follow in daddys footsteps. With a boy, the father figure has a hugh outcome on their adult behavior patterns.

Audrey1

Okay... for the record, I never said he chose to become an alcoholic. I asked why he wouldn't choose to actively try to avoid it.

I am curious though, LexieCat, that as a drinker whose problem snuck up on them whether you realised the point where your drinking reached the tipping point between being controllable and uncontrollable? Or was this something you can only pinpoint (if at all) in retrospect?

redatlanta

The only way to "choose" to avoid it would be to choose to never drink, ever, in your entire life - as there is no way to know if you are one beforehand.

Unfortunately we aren't programmed as young adults to have this kind of self discipline and sometimes there is no forewarning such as having alcoholic parents. My RAH's parents are not alcoholics - barely touch the stuff and it was that way when he was growing up.

If hindsight were foresight.....boy I would have avoided all kinds of mistakes. I would have a lot more money too

Florence

In my house, it was perfectly normal for the man to lay on the couch because [REASONS] while the women flitted around, made him feel important, set aside our needs until we couldn't identify our own needs, swallowed all the guilt and bitterness we could handle and then taught our kids to suck it up and do the same because... that's what we do. I knew it was wrong when it was happening, and I hated my mother for it as a kid.

But guess what happened when I grew up?

Child development theories make the case that the systems we grow up with provide the scaffolding for our adult lives. This is the period where we learn how to behave in most situations, are provided with immediate feedback from our elders and mentors, and develop many of our most deep-seated beliefs about the world. Is the world a kind world or a hostile world? Can I be myself in this world or do I have to hide in this world? Is this world safe for me or unsafe? Is this a world where people enjoy me, or am I supposed to be thankful when my providers throw me some breadcrumbs?

In my experience, the kids that are able to climb out of that scaffolding and do something different from their families of origin are the EXCEPTIONS. The rest of us live with it for the rest of our lives, or end up in therapy and support groups trying to take it down bolt by bolt.

Word.

LexieCat

No, I understood what you were saying. It was just a point of emphasis.

It took me four and a half years between the time I was first confronted with the fact that I had to do "something" about my drinking (the previous 3-4 years involved drinking steadily more and I was starting to hide bottles) and my realization that there was simply no way I was ever going to regain the ability to control it. My "moment of clarity" for me was going through severe enough withdrawals at work that someone had to drive me home--for some people that would have been a blip, but for me it represented an undeniable sign that I had passed the point of no return.

FWIW, nobody in my family of origin drinks excessively--in fact, they RARELY drink.

Audrey1

Thanks for the insight, LexieCat. I find all of this so very confusing, so it's really helpful to hear a bit about the other side of the story. I try very hard to understand but realise I probably never will.

I'm glad your moment of clarity wasn't just a blip.

lizatola

Florence(this may be off topic a bit) it's interesting what you said about your mom and the male lying on the couch all day. My mother did not serve my father, but she didn't nag him either. He was a true couch potato(as is my AH now). My mother bought a horse and we would go the stables during football season. She took us to the park, to visit the grandparents, swimming in our pool while dad was half asleep on the couch, etc. My mom made sure WE were busy and living our own lives. One thing I've finally started doing, in my current marriage, is using my mother's example. My son and I basically have always lived our own lives. AH's depression on and off through the years forced me to do it all and I made sure that we lived life. I can't tell you how many trips to the zoo we took without AH or how many hikes we've been on without him.

I can only hope that I am doing something right by my son by at least teaching him that life is to be LIVED, the good and the bad and the in between. Whether he becomes an alcoholic or a codependent married to an alcoholic is in God's hands. I can only do the best I can with the information before me to educate him but I can't force him to stay away from alcohol. When he's grown, he'll be making those decisions for himself.

fedup3

[QUOTE=Florence
In my experience, the kids that are able to climb out of that scaffolding and do something different from their families of origin are the EXCEPTIONS. The rest of us live with it for the rest of our lives, or end up in therapy and support groups trying to take it down bolt by bolt.[/QUOTE]

Florence I couldn't agree with you more!

Florence

My mom did this too. She went on trips alone, she worked (and still works!) and loves what she does, she continued her education all her life, but she also lived her life around my dad. He suffers from major depression, untreated for his lifetime. Her balancing her life against his weird needs led to a lot of weird habits, secret-keeping, minimizing, hiding or not dealing with problems that really needed to be managed as parents and as a couple. My mom is a great person who has had a pretty full life, but I think she would have been a much different, less anxious person who would have had a lot of bigger, grander opportunities if she'd left my dad. In my mind, the only reason they're together is their mutual codependency. There's a lot of mutual resentment there right under the surface. She has always been afraid of disrupting him -- even of making him mad -- even though she runs every single inch of their life, finances, and home. Her fear of making him mad and her attempts to avoid his criticism doesn't keep him from getting mad at her.

We don't have addiction issues in my immediate family of origin, but we do have codependency issues, anxiety, depression, and emotionally absent parenting back a couple of generations on both sides. It's my battlefield too, but damn it, I'm fighting it.

bluebelle

One of the things that I have read (and I believe) is that it is so dysfunctional and difficult living in an alcoholic home that the adult child ends up with all kinds of poor coping mechanisms that they learned growing up in the dysfunctional home. Their childhood is so stressful. Plus, there is a need to isolate from others to hide the dysfunction. So, when you grow up, what do you do with all that sadness from the dysfunction? Hopefully, you learn how to cope effectively. Otherwise, you can end up with your own addiction problems--including codependency.

Add that to a genetic predisposition to alcoholism, and it can become very difficult for the adult child. I am not an alcoholic, but I am a codependent. I have found a lot of help from ACOA books because they have taught me about coping mechanisms for the pain that I feel from growing up in an alcoholic/addict household.

amooseoncebitmysister

The best information I found for this topic is a chapter in Gabor Mate, MD's book "In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts." It's available on googlebooks, I'll try to link: In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts: Close Encounters with Addiction - Gabor Mate, M.D. - Google Books It's a chapter called "How the Addicted Brain Develops." Frankly, it blew my mind.

This book is by far the best information I've come across about addiction, period - and I've read a bunch. In woulda/coulda/shoulda world, if I'd read the chapter "A Word to Families Friends and Caregivers," I might have avoided a lot of toxic behavior towards my AH and myself, and developed compassion for him rather than rage.

LexieCat

Most of the time that I was drinking alcoholically I was under the delusion that it was a matter of choice for me. In the beginning, no doubt that was true, but gradually I found more and more reasons for drinking--or, rather, fewer reasons to try to stop. I kept discovering I could get away with it. As I had some close calls, work-wise, especially, I started wondering how long this could possibly go on.

When I quit, right after that day I got driven home from work (claimed I was sick, which I was), it was one of the "nevers" I used to comfort myself with never having experienced. It was like this was a sign that there were more bad things on the horizon. Moreover, I had an extremely vivid image of my future--becoming a crazy recluse who never left the house but had booze delivered. I envisioned myself a cripple for the rest of my life.

It SCARED me. Everyone has their own terror threshold, though. I also believe that if I hadn't acted then, at that moment, to quit, my rationalizations would have kicked in and I would have continued on until the next "never". It's why I always encourage the newbie alkies on the forum who come in miserable to bring out the big guns NOW, quick, before the disease makes you change your mind.

LadyinBC

I swore I would never become an alcoholic like my mother! Alcoholics run in my family, in fact, they run on both sides. I think it is partly genetic and also a learned behaviour. I drink exactly like my mother. My dad was also an alcoholic and he was able to quit. Sometimes an incident happens that sets you off and you are up and running with the alcohol.

I'm currently reading Drinking: A love story and I can relate to so much of what she went thru and her feelings. Even if you aren't an alcoholic I think this book is worth the read for those that want to understand better how people become this way or what their mind frame is when they are drinking.

FlowersJasmine

Behavior is acquired,
RABF has realized how his dad is disorganized and he attributes it to heavy drinking. If he must look differently, he does not need to behave like his father. The reason why he is doing it right now and not earlier is that he has now grown up and fully understands why his dad is behaving like that.