mmk11

I constantly think about my STBXAH - we are barely in contact but I think about him all the time. Some of the things are good - how we could laugh with each other. But mostly it is the bad things: the mental and emotional abuse, the blaming and guilt tripping, lying, and lack of empathy. His disrespectful, undignified, and apathetic way he treated me. Kindness one day, utter indifference the next day. My god. I replay scenes in my mind over and over again. How he acted; how I reacted; what I could've done differently to stand up for myself; why was I more concerned about his feelings instead of my own.

I wonder what he is doing, if he is seeing anyone, will I run into him just about anywhere I go. Ridiculous. I am trying to focus on me, so when I think about him I try to steer my thoughts to ME and what I need to do in that moment. It is helping, but requires a lot of mental energy; I'm still not very good at it. But dammit, it seems like sometimes I forget to think about him so then I remember and he consumes my thoughts.

Sometimes when he emails me about home affairs, I respond politely. Then I remember I want "reject" him somehow with a curt response but don't want to appear petty. I want him to give me an opening, per se, so I can unleash on him what I really think/thought about our marriage and separation. He already knows I think his alcoholism was at the root of most, if not all, of our marital problems.

I'm so frustrated that he is on my mind. How am I really moving on when I think so much about him and our past? My final divorce decree is imminent, perhaps that will get me over the mental hump and I'll think about him less and less. I have so much to let go of, I just don't know how.

I continue to read Al-Anon lit, Codependent No More, and about addiction. I'm attending a DivorceCare support group. I see a counselor. I'm on anti-depressents for depression and anxiety. I journal. I read and write here. (seeing all this in writing makes me laugh) I wonder if I'm distracting myself too much and not really focusing on healing emotionally.

I feel like my recovery, healing, and moving on looks good on paper only: I have a new house; I am working out; I stay busy with two jobs. I still have much joy with my friends, family, and felines; I really enjoy being alone in a peaceful, anxiety- and alcoholism-free home.

So why can't I stop thinking about him?

How have you all gotten to a place where you don't think about your XA?

Sorry for the rant :/

seek

I have a major problem with obsessive thinking. I sometimes feel I am possessed.

One time, I got to see how my mind works. I had a new boyfriend, and I caught myself fantasizing about our wonderful relationship - I used this kind of like a drug to take me out of my "painful reality." I think Pia Mellody talked about that syndrome - so I found out I have a habit of thinking as a way to escape . . .

On the other hand, I also obsess about negative things - I am a big worrier - etc.

I have been traumatized by alcoholism and some of the stuff that has happened to me.

I have found that EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique) is helpful in resolving some of the PTSD . . .

Cognitive Behavioral Therapy might be helpful . . .

I personally feel I need a lobotomy - but as a compromise, I am going to try to do some customized hypnosis . . .in the meantime, I try to "change the channel," and bodywork helps a lot.

Good luck.

iamthird

Youre not crazy. Give it time...keep doing what you are doing!!

deeker

I have found a good way to not obsess is get busy helping someone else. Get involved in service work. Pray and ask God to take the thoughts from you. Step out of your comfort zone and find new friends in the program. Walk thru your fear and call someone and ask them for coffee. It's a start. I could be obsessing about a lot but I choose to obsess about God. I spend a lot of time in prayer and meditation. That is where I find my peace. I reach out to new people in AA.

mmk11

Seek,

My obsessive thinking can be really disruptive at times. Possessed is a good way to put it!

No matter how much I anxiously anticipated the next crisis, my AH walking out on our marriage was truly a shock. Part of my anger was the fact that I tried to convince him to stay with the same arguments (minus the BS guilt tripping and shame) he used on me when I wanted to separate the 2-3 times in our marriage. Anger was all-consuming for months on end, but now has somewhat faded, it is less intense, but there is an undercurrent of anger in my thoughts. It is just less physiologically disturbing. I remember the morning I wasn't consumed with anger, when I woke up and truly felt an overwhelming sense of hopelessness. I was in a fog. I've never felt like that before in my life until that morning. I have my fears and anxiety about my future, sure, but had never felt HOPELESS before. I will keep going, focusing my thoughts on one day at a time.

thanks everyone for reading.

LexieCat

Keep doing what you're doing, and try to let go of him and the marriage. It takes time, it really does. I would spend every waking moment during my separation from my second husband worrying about the same stuff you are. The divorce itself did give some relief. He was literally no longer my problem. I still care about him, wish him well, but if I never hear from him again I will be happy.

redatlanta

I obsessed this way over my last relationship. He ended it - and I should have. It was a very, very destructive sick relationship not having a thing to do with alcoholism or drugs.

I obsessed for 10 months. Everyday just like you and certainly over those ten months it waned then morphed from extreme anger to sadness and hopelessness that I would never get over. The obsession became and obsession - why can't I stop thinking about the a**hole?????

On to a therapist. She nailed it (for me) in the first session. My problem was not him rather my inability to forgive myself for allowing someone to hurt me so terribly and staying for more. Self flagellation is the way I think about it.

Pointed questions from her like why did you stay, why did you put up with this, why why why - and forcing me to answer was what got me over it. I went to the therapist not for myself really but to describe him and his actions and for her to analyze him and tell me what was wrong with him - I felt that would help me get over it. Btw her analyzes of him was three words 'he's and *******".

It didn't take long once I started seeing her. One day it clicked. It is what it is, I f****d up. Move on.

Been ok ever since.

h00ped

An interesting field of science is neuroplasticity. Think of our neural pathways as cords of string or bands of muscle. When your thoughts continually go down a certain path, your brain pathways actually get thicker and thicker.

My mum left her native country 45 years ago, and she can hardly understand her native language any more. English has carved new pathways in her brain, and going down the old-established language paths are very difficult, because they are very thin now.

Same with our thinking patterns. In the beginning, you'll have to very actively think in new ways, and keep doing it daily over and over to strengthen the new paths, and let the other ones unravel.

It will take work, conscious work, but if you keep at it and use the mental tools, you can break out of the obsessive rut. Read and go over and over again any time of positive affirmation, truth, joyful thought, hopeful thought, and let your brain remap itself into a new thought life! Practice deflecting thoughts of STBAXH. And, science is also showing that this will bring more health and wellbeing to your body. Every thought carries a specific chemical messenger that our cells receive, and over time can become addicted to. Ever start craving fight or flight chemicals after you leave your A and the drama dies down?? That's your body talking. In a way we have to detox our bodies from craving the junk food of negative thought chemical messengers. Better immune system, better sleep, etc. awaits.

ZiggyB

I have done a lot of the same obsessing myself as anyone on SR can attest to... :-P

It has been very difficult to let go. I loved him dearly and was in total shock about the extremely poor and verbally abusive behavior I ended up suffering through. How could someone who say they loved you turn around and hurt you so much? I think my anger is perhaps keeping me more attached than anything.

I agree with redatlanta that some of it stems from wondering why we put up with such horrible treatment, it's almost a humilation of sorts.

I have gotten some relief from the obsessing by reading more about narcissistic devaluation. They are great at playing mind games that leave people feeling confused and depressed and have absolutely no compassion for anyone, especially the people they profess to love the most.

In my case the ex went and took a job right across the street from me and I have to see him constantly, it is like torture

I got this from: Narcissists Suck
Devalued and Thrown on the Junk Heap
Many of you have been baffled by the sudden devaluation you've experienced in your relationship with a narcissist. You had reason to believe you were important to them as they have been to you. You've been supportive, loving, taken the heat, hung in there--only to find yourself one day treated with inexplicable coldness, cruel disdain. What the hell happened?

It will be helpful to ask a narcissist what the deal is. Sam Vaknin can describe in almost clinical terms how this all works.

"The narcissist mistakenly interprets his narcissistic needs as emotions."

The absolute driving need for the narcissist is seeking sources of attention, i.e. narcissistic supply. What he said in the above sentence is important to remember because we all make the mistake of thinking the narcissist is motivated by what motivates us. For example, we pursue a relationship with a person of the opposite sex for many reasons. We're looking for shared dreams, companionship, love and passion, family, etc. While the narcissist appears to be pursuing these objectives, hopes and dreams along with us, they are actually motivated by something quite different. They are simply looking for a teat. A place to suckle on the milk of human kindness. You have been assessed to be a source of supply. That is your purpose and function. Period. They mistake their narcissistic drives to be emotions. And so do you. They dance the relationship dance with you which has all the appearance of being motivated with the same motives you have. They mouth words of love and fidelity which confirm to you that you both are on the same page. Meanwhile, they feel complete aversion to real intimacy. They are not truly connecting with you on an emotional level. You are not aware of this distance. Not yet. No, they are after something very different than what you're after.

They have this addictive need for supply, for a certain quality of attention that you've been determined by them to be a rich source of. They groom and pet you so you will continue to release the sweet nectar of life for them. Once you are hooked, then it is your job to groom and pet them. You are there for them to fall back on when the more important and impersonal sources of outside supply are in scant availability. You regurgitate all the past remembrances you have of their moments of glory. This will keep them going in those times of famine when the most delicious sources of supply are not forthcoming.

I find it interesting that Vaknin calls the grand outside sources of impersonal moments of glory as being Primary sources of supply, while the poor schlub back at home who kisses their ass and picks up after them is designated a Secondary source. Isn't that just like a narcissist? In Vaknin's classification of the quality of supply sources he puts us beneath the less available and less predictable sources of supply and gives us the role of second fiddle. The truth is, without these so-called secondary sources the narcissist would be in a fair fix most of the time. That observation aside, we'll operate from his paradigm for the length of this post so we can see how the narcissist views us rather than how it really is. Because in this context how the narcissist views us is really the point. When you are in a relationship with a narcissist you have entered the narcissist's "Pathological Space" and therefore his/her rules apply. In their space they are the ones defining reality for you.

"But then, often abruptly and inexplicably, it is all over. The narcissist is cold, uninterested and remote."

Vaknin then describes some of the reasons for the sudden devaluation of you. First of all, the qualities that made you attractive as a source of supply are also reasons for the narcissist to look down on you and see you as inferior. He lists some of the qualities the narcissist finds attractive in a supply source:

"...sufficiently intelligent, sufficiently gullible, submissive, reasonably (but not overly) inferior to the narcissist, in possession of a good memory (with which to regulate the flow of Narcissistic Supply), available but not imposing, not explicitly or overtly manipulative, undemanding, attractive (if the narcissist is somatic)."

Ahhh, but the cruel catch is that these qualities insure that the narcissist can perceive you as inferior to them; at some point, they will hate you for your inferiority.

This is also experienced by children of narcissists. The child will conform and strive to be as the parent demands. This requires submissiveness and fear. There will be times when the child is despised for the very fear and submissiveness that was demanded of them. Why? Oh, who the hell knows. From what I've seen it is because there are times when the fear and submission is inconvenient to the narcissist. Or they simply need an outlet for hate and they suddenly choose to see the child as a coward instead of a well-trained slave. The child is confused and despairing because the more they try to be what they thought was expected of them, the more they are devalued and despised. It is a horrifying experience for a child and probably has caused more than one suicide. You as an adult have been nearly shattered by your sudden devaluation; multiply your reaction ten fold to get a sense of the child's pain and confusion.

Vaknin gives a few more reasons for the sudden devaluation.

"...the narcissist resents his dependency. He realizes that he is hopelessly and helplessly addicted to Narcissistic Supply and is in hock to its sources."

"...the narcissist perceives intimacy and sex as a threat to his uniqueness. Everyone needs sex and intimacy - it is the great equaliser. The narcissist resents this commonness."

Last, and certainly not least:

"...narcissists simply get tired of their sources. They get bored. There is no mathematical formula which governs this. It depends on numerous variables. Usually, the relationship lasts until the narcissist "gets used" to the source and its stimulating effects wear off or until a better Source of Supply presents itself."

There ya have it. It hurts like hell to suddenly find yourself reduced to being **** on the bottom of some narcissist's shoe, but, if you can wrap your head around this, it's not personal.

Yeah, it was never, ever about you. It was always about them. All about their relentless and all-consuming pursuit of the nectar of supply. You simply made yourself available for feeding upon. You were an means to an end. Nothing more. Yeah, that smarts. Hopefully, though, you can force yourself to realize they didn't set out to hurt you. They don't see you. It's not about you. It will never be about you. You didn't exist for them as a fully feeling and sentient human being. They can not properly assess your value as a person. You are only as good as the nectar of attention you can give them. No matter how great the quality, at some point they get bored. All you'll get for thanks is a door in your face and a big kiss off. They are nothing more than big children who play with their toy for days, weeks, months. Then one day they lose all interest in the toy and kick it aside for another. Like the toys in Andy's room that sit in the toy box ignored and devalued by the newest toy...you've been drastically and catastrophically demoted. All in a moment, a twinkling of the narcissist's eye.

They've moved on to another source and leave you to the licking of your wounds. Lick your wounds, but don't work on that too long. You have reason to be thankful. You are no longer being used. You are no longer someone's sycophant, slave or fall-back supply source. Been dumped by a narcissist? Thank the God in Heaven for your new lease on life and resolve to not again be taken in by a parasitic narcissist. They are not worth the tears you're shedding for them. You are weeping over the relationship you thought you had, but never did.

Life is too short.

TakingCharge999

Thanks for your post Ziggy, yes indeed, they are like vampires.

Then I feel that I could be a vampire too, you know, I wanted XABF and only him, I wanted HIS attention, HIS love, HIS time, HIS everything. It has also been a narcissist (perhaps a milder form, but still) attitude to feel he is the only one and to obsess way too much about one person. In some sense it has also been all about ME.

TakingCharge999

I too am tired of obsessing, in my opinion, I got MDD, OCD, paranoia...

My trick has been to keep busy. I just read the Dalai Lama's biography. Reading is wonderful and I am glad I have time for this now...

ReflectingOnMe

"...the narcissist perceives intimacy and sex as a threat to his uniqueness. Everyone needs sex and intimacy - it is the great equaliser. The narcissist resents this commonness."

Dear God, An Alcoholic Narcissist is what I was involved with. This is right on how our relationship was. Not just the intimacy part either - but he always acted like physical intimacy wasn't necessary and I PUT UP WITH THAT SH*$.

This entire passage is him, him, him. I found it amusing that he always needed stroking of his ego constantly, I kept thinking ok you were a baseball star IN HIGH SCHOOL, you were a STUD in HIGH SCHOOL. You are 47 and busted up from all your drunken 'adventures'. I didn't know him in HS and I sure as h&## didn't care that he was 'superior' back in the day. I loved the him now.

Within this past year; I started telling him to get over it. That yes his hand was forever ruined (he punched through glass and cut every tendon and muscle there was to cut; it is at about 58% and will not get better, it was his old 'pitching' arm/hand) and reminded him that some people can't walk, some people can't talk, and I was sick of him whining about it when we have a friend that is paralyzed from the neck down; and one that has some awful form of menengitis and lives all curled up in a bed and only has control of his eye movement. That I'm sure they would have loved to have their only physical problem be that they can't work one hand correctly. Oops..wonder if that was the first nail in my coffin...or the last?

I am so glad that he became bored with me and found someone else to pet and play; thankful I only put in 4 yrs and not 14. Thankful I got several loving friends out of knowing him.

This article may have been a final turning point for me.
Thank you Ziggy.

ilovehim1104

thank yo thank you...my xabf did all.those thing mant of yoy mentioned above and more. he has moved on and i so wana wish her the same s*** he put me thru but thats not ok either.no one deserves treatment in such ways...but in my sick conscience i do hope he gives her a taste..he is almost a year clean so im sure he plays the "im better" card and i was the co dpendent problem not him but in a nutshell i am so happy for this site ans your posts...especially "Seek"

PohsFriend

Ziggy - was your ex NPD or did your ex exhibit NPD traits when addiction was talking?

There are commonalities between an addict's behavior when using and a Narcissist's - primarily the lack of empathy and anger toward the person who is expressing very reasonable hurt/anger over their actions....

But there are some very significant differences... NPD mixed with alcoholism would be one hell of a nasty dual diagnosis but true NPD is enough by itself.

There are several telltale traits of someone who truly has NPD and it is a poorly diagnosed and controversial disorder. While many traits MIGHT be there the truly defining one is an absense of empathy. They can't conceive of what you are feeling and since it seems to be negative and directed toward them it makes them very angry.

I had acknowledged being the child of an NPD mom some time back but never really dug into it until my relationship with my ex came to an end. I think she may be an alcoholic - certainly was on the path when we split but it was when she was drunk and on the offensive and managed to rattle me that I saw it. The smile. The cruel, savoring, vicious smile when she saw that she'd gotten through my armor and hit me dead in the chest. She just turned it up a notch and kept twisting the knife after that and with all this recent self examinationa nd growth **** it brought back a lot of things from childhood that I'd have just as soon left blocked out but now I am dealing with them.

There's a book called Trapped in the Mirror - it's for adult children of an NPD parent. NPDs partners are typically highly codependent which is another commonality.

It kinda kicked me a few months back when I read someone say that there therapist had said they did not wind up with an alcoholic by accident and that quite often an alcoholic's partner is 'sicker' than the alcoholic in some ways.

Here's a short description of the book, it's accurate: "In this compelling book, Elan Golomb identifies the crux of the emotional and psychological problems of millions of adults. Simply put, the children of narcissist -- offspring of parents whose interest always towered above the most basic needs of their sons and daughters -- share a common belief: They believe they do not have the right to exist. "

I'm kinda dealing with it in small doses. I thought I'd scraped the effects off my shoe and moved on some time ago but lately I've been confronting some things that have taken a lot of energy.

I'm hypersensitive to it... a while back a poster here described how much he enjoyed 'messing with' his ex and torturing him and Hydrogirl had to take down my post because a little bit of that deeply buried rage came out and my response was pretty vicious... I hope that most here would find that uncharacteristic of me.

Some signs to look for in yourself if you think you may have been dealing with someone who truly has NPD rather than some of the tendencies:
- Lying over really stupid stuff to avoid getting punished
- Feeling that whatever you do is not good enough... the goalpost just moves. Think Lucy pulling out the football on Charlie Brown and laughing as he fell on his ass.
- Disproportionate response to praise/criticism.... you are flying when you get a pat on the head and devastated when you get kicked.
- You make few or no demands, allow your boundaries to be trampled and accept treatment from the N that you know would NEVER fly if you did it to them.


It's not pretty. I was a Stepford kid - every manner of sports and academic accolades, I'm reasonably good looking and charming and have been called a terrific leader by people who do or have worked for me...

...and I still have trouble believing it when someone looks me in the eye and says I'm not a bad person because none of those things make a bit of difference to the N. They brag about you to others because you are their camoflage but belittle and demean you and dominate you in private because you don't give them ENOUGH reason to brag about you.

I'm gonna stop now :-) This can get under my skin and get me thinking too hard. Good news is that before I knew what it was I knew my kids would be protected from it and my daughter has been.. son will be.

NPD is not something an amateur, myself included, should 'diagnose' someone with as it requires not only evidence of certain traits but also some serious delving by a trained professional. Oh - and here's a funny. That ex told me her therapist said she did not need any therapy because she is perfectly healthy but that her therapist said I need help because I have NPD. I started reading and was terrified - when I discussed it with my therapist I broke down because I was terrified that maybe I WAS such a monster but was too sick to realize it - how could I protect my children from myself if that were the case. ...My therapist just shook his head sadly and said "If you had NPD you wouldn't care about any of that, you're not remotely NPD".

In case anyone wonders... his diagnosis is a little OCD and (a couple months ago) exhaustion and a smidge of depression due to a tough year emotionally and physically (chronic pain fixed by recent surgery). ...but he disagreed with my self diagnosis of being pretty f'd up, lol. Honestly that helped.

Last thought: Most experts deem NPD to be untreatable and the prognosis far worse than something minor (cough) like alcoholism which can be treated and beaten. Poh is a piece of cake, lol.

PohsFriend

LOL - so I was going to keep that short - ...anyone having trouble spotting that smidge of OCD?

PohsFriend

Well, the obsessive is driving, why not one more thought.....

My Ex lost all interest in sex (Cerebral Narcissist) for many years. My fault because I told her early on that there were two things I would never want to deal with again in a relationship - being rejected sexually on a regular basis and someone INTENTIONALLY going for my soft spots with the intention of hurting me. ...I was clear on both.. everyone can have a headache or be tired and that's OK. Everyone is going to hurt their spouse's feelings sometimes... I get over that... what I don't get over are words calculated to injure intentionally, that scares the **** out of the terrified ten year old in the back of my head.

Ironically, when Ex realized that a switch had flipped in me and all of a sudden I had boundaries and could say "too f--ing bad if you don't agree with how I feel on that subject... I will feel what I feel, decide how, when and if I will resolve it and you don't have a say".

Funny - After a few months of MC toward the end the therapist did not mention NPD but he said our issues were primarily due to her alcoholism and of course Ex had a fit over that so the next week I 'prepped him' not to say that and to be sure to be tougher on me so she would not get angry. I'm still having trouble admitting that yes, she probably is an alcoholic. Will probably lay that out in a post at some point and get opinions on whether she's alcoholic or just a vicious drunk.

LOL... I guess it makes it easier for me to put the challenges of being with someone recovering from alcoholism into perspective. Sexual fulfillment is not everything (look - I STILL can't admit this next part without feeling a little ashamed) but it an important part of a marriage and that it's OK to go through a pack of condoms before the expiration date!

...Ex even told Poh I was a horrible lover and she was surprised that Poh would have me with so many other options out there. When Ex made a snide remark wondering how we'd slipped and gotten pregnant it was a little bit fun to recall that over the course of that weekend there were 15 or so potential 'culprits'.

Thank God that's not a problem in my life any longer... it's hard to be stressed or angry when that's working.

LexieCat

Umm...

Nope.

Delve deep enough and we're all a little neurotic. Doesn't make us bad people.

PohsFriend

PS. Good thing I'm completely over that and don't let it get to me, huh?

PohsFriend

Yeah... I keep reminding myself. I was trying to make a point to my ex once and asked her to take an online test to see if she was a perfectionist. My goal was to get her to give herself a break sometimes and enjoy small victories.

The THIRD time she took it the results came in to say she had high but reasonable expectations or whatever... wouldn't discuss what the first honest result was or the second (first attempt to rig the results).

LOL. I'd rather know I am a little twisted than be unaware of a bigger issue.

ZiggyB

I have to say I had all of the signs that you posted above...

I don't know whether or not he is truly has NPD because he would never go to therapy but the signs are certainly there. Most of the time everything would be fine but then I'd do something trivial and he would fly off into a rage and be utterly offended. It was mind blowingly confusing to know if I was the greatest thing on Earth or a complete incompetent moron.

Lack of empathy was definitely present at times; but then again because he had a drinking problem it's difficult to know how much of his problems are caused by booze.

I definitely needed stronger boundaries with this guy but that's (evidently) something I still need to work on.