Why must he use fear and guilt...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 6
Why must he use fear and guilt...
It was only 10 days ago that my husband pleaded with me to let him come home after a relapse. The agreement was if he slipped again, he would leave the house and go to my FIL's house. He relapsed again last night. He tried to tell it me it was just one drink, it is no big deal. I told him it was a broken agreement and he had to leave today. I got home, he had slept all day while I was at work. He proceeded to try to convince me to let him stay with guilt and fear to the point he tried to tell me it will be my fault if something awful happens to him behind the wheel. I gave him every chance to stay sober here in the house, he doesn't. Why must he resort to making me feel guilty and afraid of what may happen? My mind knows better, I know it is his choice to drink and whether he will get behind the wheel or not. I told him, this is not on me. These are your choices. But, my heart is afraid. I am afraid of what may happen to the man that I truly do love and the father of my children. I start to question myself. It is hard to be strong when you are afraid. I just don't understand, I guess I may never get it. I am heading to another Al anon meeting tomorrow and posting here to help myself stay strong.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 386
Sorry, hon. Glad you are taking care of yourself. Active alcoholics are great at distortion and confusion. But you can be clear: He admitted there was a problem. There is a problem. You set boundaries. He didn't stay within these boundaries. He made the the choice to drink. He must deal with decisions he has made.
A work in progress
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
It's manipulation, pure and simple. It isn't that he deviously has cooked up this plan to make you feel bad for the sake of making you feel bad. He simply knows where your buttons are and is pushing the ones that will let him do what he wants to do: drink while continuing to live under your roof.
Pretty effective, too, isn't it? I mean, he's got you second-guessing your perfectly reasonable conditions for allowing him to stay.
The meeting tomorrow is a good idea. Meantime, you are NOT responsible for his slip, nor for whatever happens to him when you hold him to what HE AGREED to.
Pretty effective, too, isn't it? I mean, he's got you second-guessing your perfectly reasonable conditions for allowing him to stay.
The meeting tomorrow is a good idea. Meantime, you are NOT responsible for his slip, nor for whatever happens to him when you hold him to what HE AGREED to.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 1,407
First, I am so sorry for the pain and confusion you are feeling right now.
He needs to be allowed to experience the natural consequences of his decisions. One drink = broken agreement. If you don't respect your boundaries you can't expect him to. He can't "make" you feel guilty or afraid. I understand being afraid, I felt that way every time my ABF left the house in the car while drunk. But I learned that it was his choice. I didn't Cause it, can't Control it, and can't Cure it.
He knew the rules, he didn't respect them. He needs to understand you are now taking care of you and your kids. I'm glad you're in AlAnon. I hope you stay firm. I was taught in AlAnon that I should not set boundaries I didn't keep.
He needs to be allowed to experience the natural consequences of his decisions. One drink = broken agreement. If you don't respect your boundaries you can't expect him to. He can't "make" you feel guilty or afraid. I understand being afraid, I felt that way every time my ABF left the house in the car while drunk. But I learned that it was his choice. I didn't Cause it, can't Control it, and can't Cure it.
He knew the rules, he didn't respect them. He needs to understand you are now taking care of you and your kids. I'm glad you're in AlAnon. I hope you stay firm. I was taught in AlAnon that I should not set boundaries I didn't keep.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Fear, Obligation, Guilt - FOG will make us codies make very unhealthy decisions. These 3 words will keep us in a FOG (feeling crazy). Whenever making a decision or boundary, I try to make sure I am not being controlled by these emotions.
Your husband is manipulating you. You are powerless over the choices he makes!!
Your husband is manipulating you. You are powerless over the choices he makes!!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 178
You know what, PENNYGIRL, I really think manipulation is one of the most infuriating alcoholic traits, because it plays on your inherant goodness and caring nature, and almost makes a mockery of it. It makes the line between how much you should naturally care for your partner's wellbeing and enabling his behaviour very, very blurry. Your husband knows you, and knows you will be torn up to think he could hurt himself or others, so he uses that to his advantage.
I have the same agreement with my RABF. I moved back in on the proviso that if he takes one drink I am leaving our relationship for good. Like your husband, he begged me to come home. When I first moved out, he even mumbled something a few times about how he might deliberately hurt himself if he couldn't be with me... under his breath so he could try to pass it off as something else if needed, but loud enough so he knew I knew what he really said.
But for us (as in you and I, and the other partners of AAs and RAs), the worry has always been there, hasn't it? It's nothing new. When he was drinking, I dealt with constant worry about him falling down the stairs (again) drunk, driving drunk, drowning in the bath drunk... All that nervous worrying which he hadn't deliberately caused meant I was always in a state of heightened awareness of every sound... constantly aware in bed waiting to hear a crash, or a nasty phonecall, or worse still... nothing. Of course, he was oblivious to this, but it is not a healthy way to live.
So when he pulled that little piece of manipulation on me to deliberately make me worry, pat him on the back, and want to come back and look after him, I got angry. Really angry. I ignored the fact that he was a snivelling mess that day and called him on it. I made it clear how manipulative and unfair it was for him to threaten such things. I told him that if he wanted me back then this wasn't the way to go about it, or to regain my respect. He was dumbfounded for the second time within a week - the first time being when I left him, and the second time being when I lost my softness and illuminated my knowledge of his games.
He has never tried that again because he knows I won't just let it slide anymore. And, hopefully, he doesn't feel right about using my love for him as a weapon anymore.
As LoveMeNow said, you are powerless over the choices he makes. If you weren't you would have been able to make him quit drinking.
I have the same agreement with my RABF. I moved back in on the proviso that if he takes one drink I am leaving our relationship for good. Like your husband, he begged me to come home. When I first moved out, he even mumbled something a few times about how he might deliberately hurt himself if he couldn't be with me... under his breath so he could try to pass it off as something else if needed, but loud enough so he knew I knew what he really said.
But for us (as in you and I, and the other partners of AAs and RAs), the worry has always been there, hasn't it? It's nothing new. When he was drinking, I dealt with constant worry about him falling down the stairs (again) drunk, driving drunk, drowning in the bath drunk... All that nervous worrying which he hadn't deliberately caused meant I was always in a state of heightened awareness of every sound... constantly aware in bed waiting to hear a crash, or a nasty phonecall, or worse still... nothing. Of course, he was oblivious to this, but it is not a healthy way to live.
So when he pulled that little piece of manipulation on me to deliberately make me worry, pat him on the back, and want to come back and look after him, I got angry. Really angry. I ignored the fact that he was a snivelling mess that day and called him on it. I made it clear how manipulative and unfair it was for him to threaten such things. I told him that if he wanted me back then this wasn't the way to go about it, or to regain my respect. He was dumbfounded for the second time within a week - the first time being when I left him, and the second time being when I lost my softness and illuminated my knowledge of his games.
He has never tried that again because he knows I won't just let it slide anymore. And, hopefully, he doesn't feel right about using my love for him as a weapon anymore.
As LoveMeNow said, you are powerless over the choices he makes. If you weren't you would have been able to make him quit drinking.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Short answer? Fear.
We went round and round and round before I hit my bottom and made Poh leave. Her bottom was the next day when she woke up with a fuzzy recollection of exactly what happened but knew it was bad and she was not in the home she loves surrounded by the people who meant everything to her.
She said that week was the worst of her life. She hated me, loved me, missed me, despised me, felt abandoned by me....and went to her first AA meeting.
12/26/2011 4:00 am I dropped her with family because she would not go to a hospital. She tried so hard to get me to make any other choice and for a few weeks it worked. She was never mean - Poh is a bunny rabbit. Guilt? Denial? Blame shifting? you bet. She was terrified and broken down and hurting and that alcoholic side of her brain knew it was game over. I cried the whole way home. We all have holes in us, hers is a fear of being abandoned and the person she most loved and trusted abandoned her. It may have saved her life but I still want to throw up in my mouth thinking about it.
It took exactly what it took, one hair less and maybe it wouldn't have taken.
We're 395 days into her recovery, 391 of those she did not drink and tonight her sponsor made her a 4 month sobriety chip since they don't come in 4 month denominations.
She fell asleep sober again tonight holding our baby after a few hours of us laughing and cuddling and playing with BBB (bouncing baby boy) and frankly I think she's more serene than me right now - I've been working hard on me and it's not easy even without that bitch Ethyl screaming in my ear like an alcoholic has to deal with.
Will we be OK? Who knows, so far so good. I have the next 24 hours figured out and that will do nicely but I am happy and grateful to the point that sometimes I think back to when I thought she might die and I cry a little bit. I don't tell her - she doesn't need to know. All she needs to know is that I love her and support her and believe in her and what's done is done. I am proud of who she is and is becoming, who she was is not relevant.
...but nothing I tried had any impact whatsoever until I held firm to the no drinking boundary and forced a change. It could have gone the other way but she chose to fight for herself. ...had she gone the other way I'd be on the "Somebody please shoot me" forum :-)
Hang in there. It's a cast iron bitch to be where you are right now but I'm glad you are standing firm, it may be what changes the equation.
We went round and round and round before I hit my bottom and made Poh leave. Her bottom was the next day when she woke up with a fuzzy recollection of exactly what happened but knew it was bad and she was not in the home she loves surrounded by the people who meant everything to her.
She said that week was the worst of her life. She hated me, loved me, missed me, despised me, felt abandoned by me....and went to her first AA meeting.
12/26/2011 4:00 am I dropped her with family because she would not go to a hospital. She tried so hard to get me to make any other choice and for a few weeks it worked. She was never mean - Poh is a bunny rabbit. Guilt? Denial? Blame shifting? you bet. She was terrified and broken down and hurting and that alcoholic side of her brain knew it was game over. I cried the whole way home. We all have holes in us, hers is a fear of being abandoned and the person she most loved and trusted abandoned her. It may have saved her life but I still want to throw up in my mouth thinking about it.
It took exactly what it took, one hair less and maybe it wouldn't have taken.
We're 395 days into her recovery, 391 of those she did not drink and tonight her sponsor made her a 4 month sobriety chip since they don't come in 4 month denominations.
She fell asleep sober again tonight holding our baby after a few hours of us laughing and cuddling and playing with BBB (bouncing baby boy) and frankly I think she's more serene than me right now - I've been working hard on me and it's not easy even without that bitch Ethyl screaming in my ear like an alcoholic has to deal with.
Will we be OK? Who knows, so far so good. I have the next 24 hours figured out and that will do nicely but I am happy and grateful to the point that sometimes I think back to when I thought she might die and I cry a little bit. I don't tell her - she doesn't need to know. All she needs to know is that I love her and support her and believe in her and what's done is done. I am proud of who she is and is becoming, who she was is not relevant.
...but nothing I tried had any impact whatsoever until I held firm to the no drinking boundary and forced a change. It could have gone the other way but she chose to fight for herself. ...had she gone the other way I'd be on the "Somebody please shoot me" forum :-)
Hang in there. It's a cast iron bitch to be where you are right now but I'm glad you are standing firm, it may be what changes the equation.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 10
This sounds so familiar, I really despise the manipulating of my emotions and love for someone.
My ex was famous for telling me he'd kill himself if I left. Dramatically too, crocodile tears...then one night, he crossed the line for the last time by hitting me in the face and breaking my nose. It knocked me unconscious, and when I came around he was holding me up and crying saying how sorry he was and blah blah blah. I had a moment of clarity right then and there and left. As I was leaving, out came the "if you leave I"ll kill myself".
That's when I felt the lowest of the low, I was so angry and hurt that I told him "go ahead" and walked out the door. I called the police and let them go deal with him. I had the police there while I got my stuff and I never went back.
The point of that horrible story? Manipulators suck, and they make you feel like suck when you finally hit a breaking point and tell them "you know what? I don't care" because when you don't care anymore you feel bad, but they know the ride is over and it's time to get off because their guilt trips and manipulations of your emotions don't work if you don't care. But, while that's a good thing that they realize this, it's hard on you. It has been almost 10 years since I said that, and I still feel guilty about saying something so cruel.
My ex was famous for telling me he'd kill himself if I left. Dramatically too, crocodile tears...then one night, he crossed the line for the last time by hitting me in the face and breaking my nose. It knocked me unconscious, and when I came around he was holding me up and crying saying how sorry he was and blah blah blah. I had a moment of clarity right then and there and left. As I was leaving, out came the "if you leave I"ll kill myself".
That's when I felt the lowest of the low, I was so angry and hurt that I told him "go ahead" and walked out the door. I called the police and let them go deal with him. I had the police there while I got my stuff and I never went back.
The point of that horrible story? Manipulators suck, and they make you feel like suck when you finally hit a breaking point and tell them "you know what? I don't care" because when you don't care anymore you feel bad, but they know the ride is over and it's time to get off because their guilt trips and manipulations of your emotions don't work if you don't care. But, while that's a good thing that they realize this, it's hard on you. It has been almost 10 years since I said that, and I still feel guilty about saying something so cruel.
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
Manipulation to get what he wants.............control.
Look at what he wants from you.....he'll say anything to get it.
Look at what he wants from you.....he'll say anything to get it.
Originally Posted by PENNYGIRL 
It was only 10 days ago that my husband pleaded with me to let him come home after a relapse. The agreement was if he slipped again, he would leave the house and go to my FIL's house. He relapsed again last night. He tried to tell it me it was just one drink, it is no big deal. I told him it was a broken agreement and he had to leave today. I got home, he had slept all day while I was at work. He proceeded to try to convince me to let him stay with guilt and fear to the point he tried to tell me it will be my fault if something awful happens to him behind the wheel. I gave him every chance to stay sober here in the house, he doesn't. Why must he resort to making me feel guilty and afraid of what may happen? My mind knows better, I know it is his choice to drink and whether he will get behind the wheel or not. I told him, this is not on me. These are your choices. But, my heart is afraid. I am afraid of what may happen to the man that I truly do love and the father of my children. I start to question myself. It is hard to be strong when you are afraid. I just don't understand, I guess I may never get it. I am heading to another Al anon meeting tomorrow and posting here to help myself stay strong.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 6
I wanted to thank you all for your words of encouragement and shared experience. They helped me get thru the day at work. I met with my Al Anon sponsor and went to a meeting after. I picked up my two little girls and came home to put them to bed. I thought I had made it safely thru the night, but the door opened and my husband walked in. He was drunk. He had taken a cab home. He said he left his car in the parking lot, I pray that is where his car is. I paid the cab and called my Father-in-law to come pick him up. It was so hard to see him like that, but I am sure it was inevitable. I am trying not to feel it is because I asked him to leave. But, I admit some doubt is creeping in. I am heading to bed thankful to know tonight he doesn't have his car and praying that tomorrow is a better day. Thank you again, your words have helped me get thru today.
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