He's a burden, but he's our burden ....
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He's a burden, but he's our burden ....
... not society's.
Sometimes I have this thought- he's my child/adult son. Is it fair to burden society if he steals or breaks other laws because we make him homeless? Should taxpayers have to pay for his care because we feel we've done all we can do? Or, should we take care of our troubled son forever-- if he doesn't ever get it together and take care of himself?
I imagine the other side is *he* is responsible for himself. I'm just wondering if families should share more of the burden rather than society? It doesn't seem fair to make others take on our responsibility. And, yes, even though he is an adult- I feel responsible for not getting him to the point of being a functioning member of society.
Just thinking out loud. I'm sure some of you will find some holes in my logic. I'm not even sure how I feel about it.
Sometimes I have this thought- he's my child/adult son. Is it fair to burden society if he steals or breaks other laws because we make him homeless? Should taxpayers have to pay for his care because we feel we've done all we can do? Or, should we take care of our troubled son forever-- if he doesn't ever get it together and take care of himself?
I imagine the other side is *he* is responsible for himself. I'm just wondering if families should share more of the burden rather than society? It doesn't seem fair to make others take on our responsibility. And, yes, even though he is an adult- I feel responsible for not getting him to the point of being a functioning member of society.
Just thinking out loud. I'm sure some of you will find some holes in my logic. I'm not even sure how I feel about it.
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Under the age of 18 he is your responsibility. After that he is legally no longer your responsibility so no, its not your burden.
I don't agree that childbirth and rearing should be punitive if it doesn't go smoothly after they are 18 - I wish our governments were better at helping children in poor living situations but I guess its not possible given the size of our population.
There are many sides to this argument and I get where you are coming from.
I don't agree that childbirth and rearing should be punitive if it doesn't go smoothly after they are 18 - I wish our governments were better at helping children in poor living situations but I guess its not possible given the size of our population.
There are many sides to this argument and I get where you are coming from.
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It's interesting that it is either the family or the government that has to be responsible - not the person themselves - they get a pass. I know this is just the "way it is," but it is not fair that someone else HAS to pick up the pieces because the person has abdicated their responsibilities.
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Originally Posted by seek 
It's interesting that it is either the family or the government that has to be responsible - not the person themselves - they get a pass. I know this is just the "way it is," but it is not fair that someone else HAS to pick up the pieces because the person has abdicated their responsibilities.
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Originally Posted by Katiekate
How old is he???
Society will catch up with him, you are allowing him to suffer the consequences of his actions.
That is how we learn.
Society will catch up with him, you are allowing him to suffer the consequences of his actions.
That is how we learn.
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Originally Posted by seek
It's interesting that it is either the family or the government that has to be responsible - not the person themselves - they get a pass. I know this is just the "way it is," but it is not fair that someone else HAS to pick up the pieces because the person has abdicated their responsibilities.
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
It must be horribly demoralizing to be characterized as a *burden* rather than a capable, independent adult.
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Yeah, problem kids happen to good parents. None of us is perfect, but unless you were abusive or indulged his every whim at all times, chances are nothing you did "made" him the way he is. I always feel bad for the parents of those mass murderers when the headlines hit and people are looking for someone to blame.
There are societies where the family takes care of everyone from cradle to grave. I don't know that it is necessarily "better"--there is a lot of suffering that goes along with that kind of enforced obligation--those same societies often insist that women stay with their abusive husbands, punish them for being raped, etc.
Anyway, it is not how things work in our society, which is where we live.
At some point, unless someone is developmentally disabled or suffers from a serious mental illness or brain injury, a person is responsible for his/her own actions. Sometimes people suffer as a result of those actions--loved ones, others they may victimize, or society in general. The laws are intended to allocate responsibility and punishment or rehabilitation in an equitable way. It doesn't always achieve that, obviously, but the effort is directed to the individual responsible, not the parents or family.
Very hard to let go, though, of someone you've nurtured for so many years. If it's any comfort I've heard many alcoholics and addicts say that it was only when they were forced to be responsible for themselves and their actions that any change finally happened.
There are societies where the family takes care of everyone from cradle to grave. I don't know that it is necessarily "better"--there is a lot of suffering that goes along with that kind of enforced obligation--those same societies often insist that women stay with their abusive husbands, punish them for being raped, etc.
Anyway, it is not how things work in our society, which is where we live.
At some point, unless someone is developmentally disabled or suffers from a serious mental illness or brain injury, a person is responsible for his/her own actions. Sometimes people suffer as a result of those actions--loved ones, others they may victimize, or society in general. The laws are intended to allocate responsibility and punishment or rehabilitation in an equitable way. It doesn't always achieve that, obviously, but the effort is directed to the individual responsible, not the parents or family.
Very hard to let go, though, of someone you've nurtured for so many years. If it's any comfort I've heard many alcoholics and addicts say that it was only when they were forced to be responsible for themselves and their actions that any change finally happened.
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I don't think it's my job to decide who is "flawed" and who is not. What I do know is that the more I treated my AH as incompetent and irresponsible, the more incompetent and irresponsible he became.
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Originally Posted by LexieCat
Yeah, problem kids happen to good parents. None of us is perfect, but unless you were abusive or indulged his every whim at all times, chances are nothing you did "made" him the way he is. I always feel bad for the parents of those mass murderers when the headlines hit and people are looking for someone to blame.
There are societies where the family takes care of everyone from cradle to grave. I don't know that it is necessarily "better"--there is a lot of suffering that goes along with that kind of enforced obligation--those same societies often insist that women stay with their abusive husbands, punish them for being raped, etc.
Anyway, it is not how things work in our society, which is where we live.
At some point, unless someone is developmentally disabled or suffers from a serious mental illness or brain injury, a person is responsible for his/her own actions. Sometimes people suffer as a result of those actions--loved ones, others they may victimize, or society in general. The laws are intended to allocate responsibility and punishment or rehabilitation in an equitable way. It doesn't always achieve that, obviously, but the effort is directed to the individual responsible, not the parents or family.
Very hard to let go, though, of someone you've nurtured for so many years. If it's any comfort I've heard many alcoholics and addicts say that it was only when they were forced to be responsible for themselves and their actions that any change finally happened.
There are societies where the family takes care of everyone from cradle to grave. I don't know that it is necessarily "better"--there is a lot of suffering that goes along with that kind of enforced obligation--those same societies often insist that women stay with their abusive husbands, punish them for being raped, etc.
Anyway, it is not how things work in our society, which is where we live.
At some point, unless someone is developmentally disabled or suffers from a serious mental illness or brain injury, a person is responsible for his/her own actions. Sometimes people suffer as a result of those actions--loved ones, others they may victimize, or society in general. The laws are intended to allocate responsibility and punishment or rehabilitation in an equitable way. It doesn't always achieve that, obviously, but the effort is directed to the individual responsible, not the parents or family.
Very hard to let go, though, of someone you've nurtured for so many years. If it's any comfort I've heard many alcoholics and addicts say that it was only when they were forced to be responsible for themselves and their actions that any change finally happened.
Thanks for the input.
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Originally Posted by LaTeeDa
I don't think it's my job to decide who is "flawed" and who is not. What I do know is that the more I treated my AH as incompetent and irresponsible, the more incompetent and irresponsible he became.
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Hello Hopeful!
When his mother was pregnant with my stepson, she drank. He may register on the spectrum of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He has also stated to us that he hears voices in his head, but has not been diagnosed with FAS or schizophrenia by any of the professionals he has seen in hospitals or rehab.
What my stepson has suffered from is the immaturity, moodiness, extraordinary low self esteem, twisted thought processes, and absence of motivation present in an active addict/alcoholic who was enabled most of his life by his guilt-ridden parents.
My stepson is living in an SLE for men in another state and is looking for work. If my stepson can make these changes and begin to take steps to turn his life around, I'm pretty confident that your son can, too.
I hope that you will soon be able to find the answers you seek.
When his mother was pregnant with my stepson, she drank. He may register on the spectrum of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome. He has also stated to us that he hears voices in his head, but has not been diagnosed with FAS or schizophrenia by any of the professionals he has seen in hospitals or rehab.
What my stepson has suffered from is the immaturity, moodiness, extraordinary low self esteem, twisted thought processes, and absence of motivation present in an active addict/alcoholic who was enabled most of his life by his guilt-ridden parents.
My stepson is living in an SLE for men in another state and is looking for work. If my stepson can make these changes and begin to take steps to turn his life around, I'm pretty confident that your son can, too.
I hope that you will soon be able to find the answers you seek.
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Even people with mental illness can recover--I know several sober alcoholics with diagnoses including learning disorders, OCD, major depression, Bipolar disorder, and even schizophrenia.
I'm in AA, and in "How It Works" (a chapter in the Big Book) it says, "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest." I've seen it work for those people.
Incidentally, I am not suggesting that you simply kick a 22-y/o to the curb and demand that he fend for himself. I AM suggesting that rather than your assuming responsibility for him and cleaning up his messes, you agree to support his OWN efforts to achieve sobriety. Sometimes that means helping, as long as he isn't "gaming" you or the system.
I'm in AA, and in "How It Works" (a chapter in the Big Book) it says, "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest." I've seen it work for those people.
Incidentally, I am not suggesting that you simply kick a 22-y/o to the curb and demand that he fend for himself. I AM suggesting that rather than your assuming responsibility for him and cleaning up his messes, you agree to support his OWN efforts to achieve sobriety. Sometimes that means helping, as long as he isn't "gaming" you or the system.
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Yeah, sometimes the tough part is figuring out when we are being manipulated. Just remember, addicts HAVE to manipulate--it's how the disease survives. If no one could be manipulated then most addicts would hit bottom a lot sooner. You simply take away the props that are supporting the disease.
I tend to think that most alcoholics/addicts, when cornered, default to manipulation. I assume it is manipulation until convinced otherwise. That doesn't mean we have to lose hope or tear down the alcoholic/addict who is desperately promising whatever. It simply means that we remain cordially skeptical and reserve judgment until we see some evidence that this isn't just another round.
The burden of proof is on the alcoholic/addict to show that he or she is making a sincere effort. Then we can support that effort. It also isn't unusual for them to become very touchy if we don't give them whatever they want even when they ARE making the effort. They may accuse us of not being supportive. But the fact is, the lion's share of the work is on them. Sometimes we can help with difficult obstacles they face, but not every problem is one we need to step in and solve.
It's especially tough with young adults, I think, because some of the bad judgment and poor decisions are just attributable to their age and lack of experience. But I think it's especially important, when they are alcoholics or addicts, to really let them feel the consequences of their decisions. Someone not in the grip of addiction might learn from an explanation and a warning. Addicts tend to be hard-headed and determined to do things their own way unless they experience for themselves how it turns out.
Like navigating a minefield, huh?
I tend to think that most alcoholics/addicts, when cornered, default to manipulation. I assume it is manipulation until convinced otherwise. That doesn't mean we have to lose hope or tear down the alcoholic/addict who is desperately promising whatever. It simply means that we remain cordially skeptical and reserve judgment until we see some evidence that this isn't just another round.
The burden of proof is on the alcoholic/addict to show that he or she is making a sincere effort. Then we can support that effort. It also isn't unusual for them to become very touchy if we don't give them whatever they want even when they ARE making the effort. They may accuse us of not being supportive. But the fact is, the lion's share of the work is on them. Sometimes we can help with difficult obstacles they face, but not every problem is one we need to step in and solve.
It's especially tough with young adults, I think, because some of the bad judgment and poor decisions are just attributable to their age and lack of experience. But I think it's especially important, when they are alcoholics or addicts, to really let them feel the consequences of their decisions. Someone not in the grip of addiction might learn from an explanation and a warning. Addicts tend to be hard-headed and determined to do things their own way unless they experience for themselves how it turns out.
Like navigating a minefield, huh?
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You might want to read this book..it is a free read on the internet by Arlene Harder
“Letting Go of Our Adult Children, When What We Do is Never Enough"
Also, cynical one has several blogs about parents letting go of their adult children, just click on blogs at the top of this page and insert cynical one
in the name search box. Lots of helpful information at your fingertips.
Sending support your way!
“Letting Go of Our Adult Children, When What We Do is Never Enough"
Also, cynical one has several blogs about parents letting go of their adult children, just click on blogs at the top of this page and insert cynical one
in the name search box. Lots of helpful information at your fingertips.
Sending support your way!
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