...and sometimes it's just because marriage is hard work.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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...and sometimes it's just because marriage is hard work.
Been thinkin'....
So obviously there are more than a few challenges when married to a recovering alcoholic. ....but sometimes we tend to just attribute everything to that and forget that alcoholics and their spouses are also human beings. If alcoholics are a 10 on the 'confounding pain in the ass' scale then human beings generally are around 5 on a good day and 9 on a bad one.
Kinda bummed tonight, figuring this one out. This has nothing to do with alcoholism and everything to do with Codie/conflict avoider issues (me).
So we've talked a bunch and I've thought much more about my tendency to avoid conflict and strife.
So long story short we've been doing really well and have been very happy. About the only real source of conflict is my beloved's reaction to my ex. We've had two arguments the past month. It used to be once/week over this and I have no interest in going back there.
This time, my ex sent a text last night just asking about a housekeeping item from our divorce. It was literally "hey, I just found a tray table - did you take the rest if the set? Thought you might want it?".
My reply was that I had taken them and they were a gift from twenty years ago, prior to me and ex meeting (ie, they're mine).
That's all. No chit chat, no pleasantries, nothing.
So wife explodes.... We are back to this ******** about how I CLEARLY value staying friendly with ex more than her feelings and we will NEVER have peace and serenity until that changes. We had a nice evening planned - she was short and unpleasant instead. She's been snappy all day....
Just to be clear - she agrees that I have given her zero reason to think I want to get back with the ex. When I could have I passed. I don't see her, we don't chat. My one 'crime' is that I don't want more strife with ex and have repeatedly asked my wife to just let it die out. We had 15 years together, numerous mutual friends, owned businesses.... I walked away from everything and it cost me plenty. Sometimes I want to look atmmynwife and ask her how much I have to give up..l how much more unnecessary emotional and financial harm before you will knock this off?
But I'm trying to avoid my unhealthy pattern. I did not apologize because I did not do anything. I made several attempts to be sweet and let it blw over - cold shoulder.
So now what? I used to write long notes explains my feelings, that's a disaster.
Ignoring her until she decides to be nice seems passive aggressive. Every attempt to discuss it backfires...
So part of my own journey is learning not to allow others to decide I will not have the peace and serenity I need in life. I'm more or less just stuck between withdrawing or rewarding bad behavior.
What has me really disgusted is that I opened up a lot lately about growing up with nervous stomach and all the habits I developed to try to keep peace and avoid getting deluged with abuse for things that we're not my fault. I'm feeling like I revealed the terrified ten year old and she used it, consciously or not, to hurt me.
That's me catastrophising a bit perhaps. I'm somewhere between 'Fine, be pissed off and nasty' and letting her know that I resent it and why.... Meanwhile I'm thinking that "don't just do something, stand there" applies. Pretty sure that I'm not in the mood to be the peacemaker and go try to cajole her into being sweet just because I hate the strife.
Anyone else had trouble with the "You have the right to be angry and upset, you don't have the right to treat me like **** if I don't do anything except adhere 100% to my commitments and promises to you" boundary? Still learning this one and stuffing down the urge to say something more like "this is crap. Nothing happened, I did nothing, my ex didn't even do anything -YOU CHOSE TO WRECK THE WEEKEND FOR BOTH OF US - so apologize or sulk all you want but drop the f--ing attitude and don't you dare pull this ******** on me again, I will not be beaten into placating and apologizing for doing nothing but be good to you under threat of drama and strife!"
..know we know how I really feel about it.
So obviously there are more than a few challenges when married to a recovering alcoholic. ....but sometimes we tend to just attribute everything to that and forget that alcoholics and their spouses are also human beings. If alcoholics are a 10 on the 'confounding pain in the ass' scale then human beings generally are around 5 on a good day and 9 on a bad one.
Kinda bummed tonight, figuring this one out. This has nothing to do with alcoholism and everything to do with Codie/conflict avoider issues (me).
So we've talked a bunch and I've thought much more about my tendency to avoid conflict and strife.
So long story short we've been doing really well and have been very happy. About the only real source of conflict is my beloved's reaction to my ex. We've had two arguments the past month. It used to be once/week over this and I have no interest in going back there.
This time, my ex sent a text last night just asking about a housekeeping item from our divorce. It was literally "hey, I just found a tray table - did you take the rest if the set? Thought you might want it?".
My reply was that I had taken them and they were a gift from twenty years ago, prior to me and ex meeting (ie, they're mine).
That's all. No chit chat, no pleasantries, nothing.
So wife explodes.... We are back to this ******** about how I CLEARLY value staying friendly with ex more than her feelings and we will NEVER have peace and serenity until that changes. We had a nice evening planned - she was short and unpleasant instead. She's been snappy all day....
Just to be clear - she agrees that I have given her zero reason to think I want to get back with the ex. When I could have I passed. I don't see her, we don't chat. My one 'crime' is that I don't want more strife with ex and have repeatedly asked my wife to just let it die out. We had 15 years together, numerous mutual friends, owned businesses.... I walked away from everything and it cost me plenty. Sometimes I want to look atmmynwife and ask her how much I have to give up..l how much more unnecessary emotional and financial harm before you will knock this off?
But I'm trying to avoid my unhealthy pattern. I did not apologize because I did not do anything. I made several attempts to be sweet and let it blw over - cold shoulder.
So now what? I used to write long notes explains my feelings, that's a disaster.
Ignoring her until she decides to be nice seems passive aggressive. Every attempt to discuss it backfires...
So part of my own journey is learning not to allow others to decide I will not have the peace and serenity I need in life. I'm more or less just stuck between withdrawing or rewarding bad behavior.
What has me really disgusted is that I opened up a lot lately about growing up with nervous stomach and all the habits I developed to try to keep peace and avoid getting deluged with abuse for things that we're not my fault. I'm feeling like I revealed the terrified ten year old and she used it, consciously or not, to hurt me.
That's me catastrophising a bit perhaps. I'm somewhere between 'Fine, be pissed off and nasty' and letting her know that I resent it and why.... Meanwhile I'm thinking that "don't just do something, stand there" applies. Pretty sure that I'm not in the mood to be the peacemaker and go try to cajole her into being sweet just because I hate the strife.
Anyone else had trouble with the "You have the right to be angry and upset, you don't have the right to treat me like **** if I don't do anything except adhere 100% to my commitments and promises to you" boundary? Still learning this one and stuffing down the urge to say something more like "this is crap. Nothing happened, I did nothing, my ex didn't even do anything -YOU CHOSE TO WRECK THE WEEKEND FOR BOTH OF US - so apologize or sulk all you want but drop the f--ing attitude and don't you dare pull this ******** on me again, I will not be beaten into placating and apologizing for doing nothing but be good to you under threat of drama and strife!"
..know we know how I really feel about it.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 47
Yea, I know
Before my wife left, one night I was frustrated, hurt, angry, etc, etc, just didn't know what to say or do. Man! This is a bad place to be. So like the good early AlaNon person I was I called my AlaNon sponsor (I had to go outside so she wouldn't know). Told him the story. He said, ok, pull out the AlaNon 12 step book, under line every suggested ACTION in the first three steps. I told him I don't believe in marking in books, he said at this point lots of change would be good for me. Ok cool whatever, I'll write in the book. I got to the second page of the first step under lining actions AlaNon suggested and found myself smiling. I had new tools I needed to make it through crazy days, rather I made the day crazy or not. What a relief!
I'd suggest calling your sponsor and ask him for suggestions. If you don't have one rush to the nearest AlaNon meeting and get one
!
I'd suggest calling your sponsor and ask him for suggestions. If you don't have one rush to the nearest AlaNon meeting and get one
!
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Join Date: Jul 2010
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If I had to guess, your wife is ticked because she feels that your ex is using trivial excuses to contact you, AND IT DOESN'T BOTHER YOU. I had an alcoholic ex who used to call me once a year or so to ask if I wanted a particular book back (which he knew perfectly well belonged to me). I'd patiently repeat yes, sure, you can send it to me. Nothing... until the next call asking me about the same book.
I found it mildly annoying and rather pitiful, but it certainly didn't enrage me.
You're absolutely right that she doesn't have the right to dictate how, or whether, you reply to a text from your ex. None of her business.
Seems to me that avoiding taking the bait is the best you can do. You have nothing to apologize for, and no amount of discussion will change how she feels about it. I've fallen back, at times, on the old, "Sorry you feel that way." It's her issue, and she's the one who has to deal with it. Being the recipient of the fallout from that is no fun, but ignoring the sulk is probably more productive (and less painful for you) than having the proverbial knock-down-drag-out.
This is one of those things that gets easier with practice, I think.
I found it mildly annoying and rather pitiful, but it certainly didn't enrage me.
You're absolutely right that she doesn't have the right to dictate how, or whether, you reply to a text from your ex. None of her business.
Seems to me that avoiding taking the bait is the best you can do. You have nothing to apologize for, and no amount of discussion will change how she feels about it. I've fallen back, at times, on the old, "Sorry you feel that way." It's her issue, and she's the one who has to deal with it. Being the recipient of the fallout from that is no fun, but ignoring the sulk is probably more productive (and less painful for you) than having the proverbial knock-down-drag-out.
This is one of those things that gets easier with practice, I think.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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She is being jealous and unreasonable, this has nothing to do with alcoholism and more to do with insecurity.
When I got divorced from my ex his new gf made all of our lives miserable. She was jealous, controlling, bossy and did not want him to have any dealings with me. If the two of you are still seeing a marriage counseler this would be a good one for you to talk about in therapy.
When I got divorced from my ex his new gf made all of our lives miserable. She was jealous, controlling, bossy and did not want him to have any dealings with me. If the two of you are still seeing a marriage counseler this would be a good one for you to talk about in therapy.
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Lol, the MC heard nothing else for months.
When I was upset about my wife having a small relapse she told me to go to alanon or talk to my therapist... She had her hands full dealing with her own guilt and shame. Despite the urge to scream at the time she was right and perhaps next time that's what my response should be - if I violate your trust, give you any reason to doubt my devotion or otherwise wrong you then hammer away. Meanwhile, if I did not and you are angry then talk to your sponsor or therapist or workout or whatever but being crappy to me is not acceptable. Now that I have learned to establish that boundary it isnt terribly flexible.
I was reading an interesting article on how a woman responds to different vocal patterns from her mate differently during different times of the month. Evidently, when ovulating a woman responds well to deeper tones and a firm, assertive tone. Just prior to menstruation, a woman prefers her man mute, preferably with duct tape over his mouth and a flaming spear protruding from his chest.
After checking the calendar, I'm thinking this should be discussed next week perhaps.
When I was upset about my wife having a small relapse she told me to go to alanon or talk to my therapist... She had her hands full dealing with her own guilt and shame. Despite the urge to scream at the time she was right and perhaps next time that's what my response should be - if I violate your trust, give you any reason to doubt my devotion or otherwise wrong you then hammer away. Meanwhile, if I did not and you are angry then talk to your sponsor or therapist or workout or whatever but being crappy to me is not acceptable. Now that I have learned to establish that boundary it isnt terribly flexible.
I was reading an interesting article on how a woman responds to different vocal patterns from her mate differently during different times of the month. Evidently, when ovulating a woman responds well to deeper tones and a firm, assertive tone. Just prior to menstruation, a woman prefers her man mute, preferably with duct tape over his mouth and a flaming spear protruding from his chest.
After checking the calendar, I'm thinking this should be discussed next week perhaps.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend 
Lol, the MC heard nothing else for months.
I was reading an interesting article on how a woman responds to different vocal patterns from her mate differently during different times of the month. Evidently, when ovulating a woman responds well to deeper tones and a firm, assertive tone. Just prior to menstruation, a woman prefers her man mute, preferably with duct tape over his mouth and a flaming spear protruding from his chest.
After checking the calendar, I'm thinking this should be discussed next week perhaps.
I was reading an interesting article on how a woman responds to different vocal patterns from her mate differently during different times of the month. Evidently, when ovulating a woman responds well to deeper tones and a firm, assertive tone. Just prior to menstruation, a woman prefers her man mute, preferably with duct tape over his mouth and a flaming spear protruding from his chest.
After checking the calendar, I'm thinking this should be discussed next week perhaps.
I am the jealous and controlling woman, born out of insecurity I think. Also simply cos relationships are so hard. Sometimes I think it would be easier to be single.
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 178
I have a similarly jealous partner, and have been wondering just how much jealousy is attributed to alcoholism? Alternatively, do those with addictive personalities tend also to be jealous? Alternatively, is it nothing to do with alcohol, and 100% to do with the person?
My partner is also a jealous person. When he was drunk, it was excruciating. He had no reason to be, but the ridiculous accusations would always be there. It was stifling. Interestingly, I only ever saw his ex, who was actively trying to get him back and create problems in our relationship, as anything more than a small annoyance.
Was your wife's jealousy worse when she was drinking, Poh'sFriend? My partner's jealousy is much better since he quit, but it is definitely still there. He just keeps his mouth shut about it more often, and rather than accusations it's little comments. We've spoken about it in these sober times, and it is much better, but I can see it will always be there... eating away at him.
It makes me wonder why he would want to be with me at all if he has such jealousy built up inside of him all the time. It must be awful. It's awful enough being on the receiving end.
My partner is also a jealous person. When he was drunk, it was excruciating. He had no reason to be, but the ridiculous accusations would always be there. It was stifling. Interestingly, I only ever saw his ex, who was actively trying to get him back and create problems in our relationship, as anything more than a small annoyance.
Was your wife's jealousy worse when she was drinking, Poh'sFriend? My partner's jealousy is much better since he quit, but it is definitely still there. He just keeps his mouth shut about it more often, and rather than accusations it's little comments. We've spoken about it in these sober times, and it is much better, but I can see it will always be there... eating away at him.
It makes me wonder why he would want to be with me at all if he has such jealousy built up inside of him all the time. It must be awful. It's awful enough being on the receiving end.
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if I violate your trust, give you any reason to doubt my devotion or otherwise wrong you then hammer away. Meanwhile, if I did not and you are angry then talk to your sponsor or therapist or workout or whatever but being crappy to me is not acceptable. Now that I have learned to establish that boundary it isnt terribly flexible.
In my humble opinion, sulking and the cold shoulder are forms of emotional abuse, and you did nothing wrong. I don't think it's passive-aggressive to avoid her until she decides to stop this game, it's just not tolerating her behavior.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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In my opinion, many people are alcoholics because they have emotional issues and alcohol is used to help them cope with those problems. (What's the saying, a disease of the head, not the elbow?) Alcoholics seem to suffer from poor self esteem, insecurity, poor communication, immaturity- at least this is what I've seen with my son and other alcoholics that I've spent time with.
Your wife is very early in recovery, but if she doesn't work hard on herself and getting emotionally healthy, then I fear these sorts of problems won't improve and will probably get worse.
Your wife is very early in recovery, but if she doesn't work hard on herself and getting emotionally healthy, then I fear these sorts of problems won't improve and will probably get worse.
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 16,633
Originally Posted by PohsFriend
I was reading an interesting article on how a woman responds to different vocal patterns from her mate differently during different times of the month. Evidently, when ovulating a woman responds well to deeper tones and a firm, assertive tone. Just prior to menstruation, a woman prefers her man mute, preferably with duct tape over his mouth and a flaming spear protruding from his chest.
After checking the calendar, I'm thinking this should be discussed next week perhaps.
After checking the calendar, I'm thinking this should be discussed next week perhaps.
There's an AA story about "Rule 62" ("Don't take yourself so damn seriously!"), the lesson being that it is not good to try to control everything and everybody, even when it feels necessary.
As Audrey pointed out, it must feel awful to feel that jealous and threatened all the time. One other suggestion, recommended in the Big Book (and also in Buddhist practice): try praying for her to find peace. Don't tell her you're doing it, just do it. And instead of concentrating on how her behavior is upsetting you, try focusing on how unhappy she must feel to behave that way. This isn't intended to excuse unacceptable behavior, but rather to recognize that other people's bad behavior means that, just like us, their internal pain is often manifested by acting in ways that can be frustrating and upsetting to others.
I have a feeling that if you both stick with your recovery work, this particular situation will get a LOT better.
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Pohs - yes I dealt with this but it was about my CATS. Yes my cats. AH was not a cat lover though claimed it would not be an issue and that was the biggest lie ever told. What he really thought or planned once he moved in was that he would get me to get rid of them. His plans took all kind of turns from asking nicely to making my life f'ing miserable about the "cats". I refused to get rid of them he turned that into "you love them more than me" prove to me how much you love me get rid of them. OMG the arguments we have had over the cats.
So finally I told him - if I have to give up things that I love to be with you then I don't want to be with you are not healthy for me. Its as simple as that. Cat issue ended because I refused to discuss it any further and also because I was telling like it was. I am not causing my own self serious grief and pain to allieviate your ridiculous, unfounded grief and pain.
Your situation is similar but different you are not in love with your ex - simply maintaining a friendly relationship which seems a necessity though I may have read that incorrectly. My response to RAW would be - if I have to end this situation in order to appease YOU and make YOU happy while bringing further grief and hardship on myself to do so then perhaps I need to reevaluate if I need to be in this relationship.
The whole 'punished for the weekend" behavior would not go over well at all.
So finally I told him - if I have to give up things that I love to be with you then I don't want to be with you are not healthy for me. Its as simple as that. Cat issue ended because I refused to discuss it any further and also because I was telling like it was. I am not causing my own self serious grief and pain to allieviate your ridiculous, unfounded grief and pain.
Your situation is similar but different you are not in love with your ex - simply maintaining a friendly relationship which seems a necessity though I may have read that incorrectly. My response to RAW would be - if I have to end this situation in order to appease YOU and make YOU happy while bringing further grief and hardship on myself to do so then perhaps I need to reevaluate if I need to be in this relationship.
The whole 'punished for the weekend" behavior would not go over well at all.
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We had a good talk last night. I get her feelings about my ex. When Poh was bottoming out and I made her leave, ex was trying very hard to pull me back and the fact is that I handled it in a cowardly fashion - I left both doors open while I tried to figure out what the hell to do and I deserved the anger from both of them that resulted.
BUT...
I've made up for that as best I can and once I committed to making this work I have never wobbled even slightly and when we married we agreed - new beginning, the past is just that.
She reacts viscerally wrt my ex. I told her that I understand the emotions and she can't choose her emotions but she can choose how she deals with them. I was very honest last night and told her that I can handle little things (wink) like alcoholism but I am so absolutely unwilling to EVER live my life holding my breath while wondering when I will next get pounded on when I haven't done anything that its literally a make up your mind now, knock that **** off or do not be part of my life. I am THAT committed to never living that way again. Once she saw that it helped and we fell asleep snuggled up and happy.
It's still something to work on. A coupled the ago she sent my ex an Amends letter in which she was pretty disingenuous and blamed me for things and said I hadn't let her write the note sooner which is ********. What I have asked 100 times is that she not do anything to stir my ex up or add insult to injury. I heard about the note from a friend and wife was instantly furious with me because she thought I heard about it from ex. Once she learned that I heard from a friend she wasn't mad at me but her logic was still way off - she said if my ex HAD discussed it with meter shed have been right to be mad.
Frankly I think that's just irrational as all hell. Things were quiet, everyone moving along and ten she stirs something up and is going to get pissed at me if she gets my ex rules up enough to call me about it? Nope. That's not ok. ...and rule one of making amends is that you skip the note if it would cause anyone harm.
I'm glad I didn't just let this one be. I need her to understand that I value peace and tranquility in my home and need a partner who is committed to working with me to ensure it by not letting outside influences get between us. After an NPD mom and 14 years with someone who was fully capable of hurting me for sport it isn't the hurtful things someone does that I can't tolerate - its hurtful intent. If someone hurts me badly unintentionally I can forgive that much more easily than a mild hurt that was intended to cause harm.
Anyhow we will see. She still says that if she is upset and gets mad at me then I need to understand. I said that if she gets upset and I did nothing to cause it then she can be upset but not with me. This is a choice.
One thing I did wrong here - a couple weeks ago ex sent one of those innocent texts around midnight and I told her that upsets my wife so please respect that. Wife said that knowing that would have helped and she just wants to know that I'm willing to tell ex that.
...but this is a pretty normal problem for a couple to have, time and consistent behavior should ease her fears. Wife is upset because there was a time when I wanted off the roller coaster and back to the safety of my old predictable if not happy life.... I can't change that and can only keep doing what I'm doing and make sure I can look in the mirror every night knowing that I have held up my end of the deal and haven't let fear of conflict cause me to manipulate, lie or mislead in order to avoid hurting anyone's feelings.
...I just have to know that as long as I do that then I needn't worry about getting the same sort of reaction I would expect and deserve if I HAD done something wrong. Kinda like what I said about dealing with an alcoholic in recovery. You can't punish them for the past or reject every good action because they might relapse because then you are toxic to them and they probably need to get away from you if they want to recover. I deal with what my wife is doing now and I won't get upset with her because one of the girls in her group relapses.
Today is a good day. Couples argue, people do irrational things based in fear or insecurity and we are working through those things rather than me withdrawing and pulling away. That's not fun but it is healthy.
Wife made what I thought was a ridiculous comparison - what if she got involved with some guy in AA some day and then we worked it out but he texted her about simple things - would that be ok with me? I thought that was pretty manipulative - my ex as I were together for 14 years and wife and I got together after I seperated but before it was legally over and since wife and I married I have given no room for worry... Hardly the same as her having an affair in the future then stayin in contact. It was petty and manipulative and I said so. In the end I let her know that I hate to see her sad and will work as hard as I can never to cause her pain and expect the same from her. She agreed. His will come up again but hopefully with time and evidence and consistency it will lessen
Progress, not perfection. We continue to progress individually and as a couple to go back and build a foundation. For the future
Today is a good day. Wife is sober and despite pms did not slam a flaming spear into my chest...
BUT...
I've made up for that as best I can and once I committed to making this work I have never wobbled even slightly and when we married we agreed - new beginning, the past is just that.
She reacts viscerally wrt my ex. I told her that I understand the emotions and she can't choose her emotions but she can choose how she deals with them. I was very honest last night and told her that I can handle little things (wink) like alcoholism but I am so absolutely unwilling to EVER live my life holding my breath while wondering when I will next get pounded on when I haven't done anything that its literally a make up your mind now, knock that **** off or do not be part of my life. I am THAT committed to never living that way again. Once she saw that it helped and we fell asleep snuggled up and happy.
It's still something to work on. A coupled the ago she sent my ex an Amends letter in which she was pretty disingenuous and blamed me for things and said I hadn't let her write the note sooner which is ********. What I have asked 100 times is that she not do anything to stir my ex up or add insult to injury. I heard about the note from a friend and wife was instantly furious with me because she thought I heard about it from ex. Once she learned that I heard from a friend she wasn't mad at me but her logic was still way off - she said if my ex HAD discussed it with meter shed have been right to be mad.
Frankly I think that's just irrational as all hell. Things were quiet, everyone moving along and ten she stirs something up and is going to get pissed at me if she gets my ex rules up enough to call me about it? Nope. That's not ok. ...and rule one of making amends is that you skip the note if it would cause anyone harm.
I'm glad I didn't just let this one be. I need her to understand that I value peace and tranquility in my home and need a partner who is committed to working with me to ensure it by not letting outside influences get between us. After an NPD mom and 14 years with someone who was fully capable of hurting me for sport it isn't the hurtful things someone does that I can't tolerate - its hurtful intent. If someone hurts me badly unintentionally I can forgive that much more easily than a mild hurt that was intended to cause harm.
Anyhow we will see. She still says that if she is upset and gets mad at me then I need to understand. I said that if she gets upset and I did nothing to cause it then she can be upset but not with me. This is a choice.
One thing I did wrong here - a couple weeks ago ex sent one of those innocent texts around midnight and I told her that upsets my wife so please respect that. Wife said that knowing that would have helped and she just wants to know that I'm willing to tell ex that.
...but this is a pretty normal problem for a couple to have, time and consistent behavior should ease her fears. Wife is upset because there was a time when I wanted off the roller coaster and back to the safety of my old predictable if not happy life.... I can't change that and can only keep doing what I'm doing and make sure I can look in the mirror every night knowing that I have held up my end of the deal and haven't let fear of conflict cause me to manipulate, lie or mislead in order to avoid hurting anyone's feelings.
...I just have to know that as long as I do that then I needn't worry about getting the same sort of reaction I would expect and deserve if I HAD done something wrong. Kinda like what I said about dealing with an alcoholic in recovery. You can't punish them for the past or reject every good action because they might relapse because then you are toxic to them and they probably need to get away from you if they want to recover. I deal with what my wife is doing now and I won't get upset with her because one of the girls in her group relapses.
Today is a good day. Couples argue, people do irrational things based in fear or insecurity and we are working through those things rather than me withdrawing and pulling away. That's not fun but it is healthy.
Wife made what I thought was a ridiculous comparison - what if she got involved with some guy in AA some day and then we worked it out but he texted her about simple things - would that be ok with me? I thought that was pretty manipulative - my ex as I were together for 14 years and wife and I got together after I seperated but before it was legally over and since wife and I married I have given no room for worry... Hardly the same as her having an affair in the future then stayin in contact. It was petty and manipulative and I said so. In the end I let her know that I hate to see her sad and will work as hard as I can never to cause her pain and expect the same from her. She agreed. His will come up again but hopefully with time and evidence and consistency it will lessen
Progress, not perfection. We continue to progress individually and as a couple to go back and build a foundation. For the future
Today is a good day. Wife is sober and despite pms did not slam a flaming spear into my chest...
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
Hi!! Although I think your wife is acting immature in the way she is handling the conflict, I am left with many thoughts and questions for you. Of course, you do not have to answer here, if you don't want to.
I questioned your ex's motives especially since you already asked her not to do this. Really?? A 20 year old card table??
I questioned your need to hang on to the relationship with your ex? Wasn't it a toxic relationship?
Has this become a power struggle that often occurs in a fairly young marriage still navigating through unresolved resentments or issues?
I am not a jealous woman at all however, I am not sure I would like all the dynamics that have transpired and possibly still are. I could be very wrong but it sounds like your ex is playing a game at the expense of your marriage.
Just something to think about!!
I questioned your ex's motives especially since you already asked her not to do this. Really?? A 20 year old card table??
I questioned your need to hang on to the relationship with your ex? Wasn't it a toxic relationship?
Has this become a power struggle that often occurs in a fairly young marriage still navigating through unresolved resentments or issues?
I am not a jealous woman at all however, I am not sure I would like all the dynamics that have transpired and possibly still are. I could be very wrong but it sounds like your ex is playing a game at the expense of your marriage.
Just something to think about!!
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Thanks guys...
Ex was very toxic relationship and Poh has recently said that a big part of it is that she's sees that ex can still get to me - not in a make me want her back way but I. An unhealthy way.
We just differ on approach.
I'd prefer to have a civil but limited relationship. We can't be buddies, we can't easily ignore the other completely as we need and have usually gotten cooperation on some things.
Poh thinks that by not being harsher I am encouraging ex and ex is finding reasons to text when she's lonely. May or may not be true - my argument is that I can't control ex, just me response. And Poh is right, ex can get a few drinks into her and lash out publicly knowing that I fear that. When push comes to shove I have and would fight back but is rather just have peace. Also, if we have problems I want those private - if we are having a tough day then the only people we should talk to are the people who SUPPORT our marriage and wish us well, never someone who would like to see us fail.
We are getting there, fortunately I am learning to react less quickly and with more empathy and she's changing dramatically through her AA work and motherhood.
I think part of it has to do with her fear of relapsing some day... What if she goes on a year and by the time she hits te wall and gets sober I've given up and let someone else in? We all have our pet fear, hers is abandonment, mine is getting screamed at.
I just need her to see that I've changed. When ex and I split Poh and I digits out pretty quickly that our long friendship was a denial fest - by that time I hadn't admitted it to myself but I was nuts about her and when ex put on the full press to change and apologize and wanted me back there was no chance.
The irony here is that Poh would be jealous at all. Can't tell you how many times we've been out and I've seen some poor guy get kicked by his wife for watching her walk across the room. Ex got mad when I asked her to respect that Poh wasn't comfortable with her asking me to help her with things and said something like "oh for crying out loud, she has my family, is pregnant with your baby and she's ten years younger and a f--Ing bikini model and she's jealous?".
It's a mess... I figure the best way to put it in the past is to keep proper boundaries and give Poh no reason to worry. Meanwhile I will not allow ex to interfere but there is no need to respond to her little digs or the tales of all the rich studs courting her by spiking the ball. She can have the last word, the friends, the businesses... I decided to start over and build a new life with Poh and I don't regret it. Time and consistency and transparency build trust and confidence. I've got time. No need to disrespect ANYONE but I'm hyper aware of not placating anyone to avoid conflict either - that's when I get myself in trouble and working in me is my job ;-)
Ex was very toxic relationship and Poh has recently said that a big part of it is that she's sees that ex can still get to me - not in a make me want her back way but I. An unhealthy way.
We just differ on approach.
I'd prefer to have a civil but limited relationship. We can't be buddies, we can't easily ignore the other completely as we need and have usually gotten cooperation on some things.
Poh thinks that by not being harsher I am encouraging ex and ex is finding reasons to text when she's lonely. May or may not be true - my argument is that I can't control ex, just me response. And Poh is right, ex can get a few drinks into her and lash out publicly knowing that I fear that. When push comes to shove I have and would fight back but is rather just have peace. Also, if we have problems I want those private - if we are having a tough day then the only people we should talk to are the people who SUPPORT our marriage and wish us well, never someone who would like to see us fail.
We are getting there, fortunately I am learning to react less quickly and with more empathy and she's changing dramatically through her AA work and motherhood.
I think part of it has to do with her fear of relapsing some day... What if she goes on a year and by the time she hits te wall and gets sober I've given up and let someone else in? We all have our pet fear, hers is abandonment, mine is getting screamed at.
I just need her to see that I've changed. When ex and I split Poh and I digits out pretty quickly that our long friendship was a denial fest - by that time I hadn't admitted it to myself but I was nuts about her and when ex put on the full press to change and apologize and wanted me back there was no chance.
The irony here is that Poh would be jealous at all. Can't tell you how many times we've been out and I've seen some poor guy get kicked by his wife for watching her walk across the room. Ex got mad when I asked her to respect that Poh wasn't comfortable with her asking me to help her with things and said something like "oh for crying out loud, she has my family, is pregnant with your baby and she's ten years younger and a f--Ing bikini model and she's jealous?".
It's a mess... I figure the best way to put it in the past is to keep proper boundaries and give Poh no reason to worry. Meanwhile I will not allow ex to interfere but there is no need to respond to her little digs or the tales of all the rich studs courting her by spiking the ball. She can have the last word, the friends, the businesses... I decided to start over and build a new life with Poh and I don't regret it. Time and consistency and transparency build trust and confidence. I've got time. No need to disrespect ANYONE but I'm hyper aware of not placating anyone to avoid conflict either - that's when I get myself in trouble and working in me is my job ;-)
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I am struggling to learn that another's emotions should not impact my own...and what to do with it when another is mad (regardless of if it is legitimate or not) when I am feeling okay. I am having to learn about how to take it on or not.
I realize this is not a straightforward issue in your case, but I am "challenging" you on is that is playing a role in this....
I realize this is not a straightforward issue in your case, but I am "challenging" you on is that is playing a role in this....
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Pohsfriend - Is the ex the mother of your child? I thought she was therefore that would be the reason you still have contact.
I work with models and actresses - some of the most beautiful women you have ever seen and have seen I am sure - and not all, but more often than not, are quite insecure. Looks, really don't have everything to do with confidence or jealously.
I work with models and actresses - some of the most beautiful women you have ever seen and have seen I am sure - and not all, but more often than not, are quite insecure. Looks, really don't have everything to do with confidence or jealously.
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Originally Posted by LifeRecovery
I am struggling to learn that another's emotions should not impact my own...and what to do with it when another is mad (regardless of if it is legitimate or not) when I am feeling okay. I am having to learn about how to take it on or not.
I realize this is not a straightforward issue in your case, but I am "challenging" you on is that is playing a role in this....
I realize this is not a straightforward issue in your case, but I am "challenging" you on is that is playing a role in this....
...clearly I just new to learn to enjoy getting spanked on the ass... No wait, that's not it... Must stop reading wife's fifty shades books.
It's a work in progress and this last time I wa just determined that I would have a happy day and another and another til she decided to join in but it did not work.
Simple and easy... If only they were the same. Getting better at owning my mood but not there yet. I've always said that someone else can't make ya happy but they can sure as hell make you miserable... Funny but should not be true. Need to learn to be happy if I lived the day in a way I am proud of and not be concerned about others approval as long as I am doing no harm.
....oh, and a proud day involves good friend, good husband, good daddy and not the type of day Charlie Sheen would be proud of.
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend
You are dead on. I am terrible about this and it's really a challenge. I'm like a puppy sometimes, pat my head and I am happy as can be, spank my ass and I am devastated.
I am seriously bent out of shape when someone I love is angry at me, I wonder if you had an unstable childhood like I did? Or do you just think people need to approve of you at all times?
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Zig - no I'm pretty much a basket case lol.
Mom, bless her heart, was a bipolar npd and I grew up walking on eggshells. Captain of sports teams and debate team, decorated student, scholarships to college and grad school.... Not good enough, her friend's kid got HIS MBA at a top 3 school, not a top 20 school after all. Lol.
XW was gifted at finding what I was most insecure of and tweaking it or most proud of and casting doubt on it.
It's a Codie trait.
My childhood gave me several quirks that are either devastatingly good tools when applied right or major character flaws when applied under duress.
World sees successful (whatever that means) guy with confidence who fears nothing and laughs off everything.... I see the 9 year old with nervous stomached hiding in the basement til mom calms down after he tried to clean up after thanksgiving dinner but loaded the plates wrong and got a few thrown at him while getting screamed at.
Poh is the first person I told about that, figure I prolly oughtta work this **** out before fifty :-)
So I'm a little nuts, could be worse, coulda been bald.... Dumb.... Ugly.... Minor nuttiness ain't so bad once you learn to find the humor in it.
Mom, bless her heart, was a bipolar npd and I grew up walking on eggshells. Captain of sports teams and debate team, decorated student, scholarships to college and grad school.... Not good enough, her friend's kid got HIS MBA at a top 3 school, not a top 20 school after all. Lol.
XW was gifted at finding what I was most insecure of and tweaking it or most proud of and casting doubt on it.
It's a Codie trait.
My childhood gave me several quirks that are either devastatingly good tools when applied right or major character flaws when applied under duress.
World sees successful (whatever that means) guy with confidence who fears nothing and laughs off everything.... I see the 9 year old with nervous stomached hiding in the basement til mom calms down after he tried to clean up after thanksgiving dinner but loaded the plates wrong and got a few thrown at him while getting screamed at.
Poh is the first person I told about that, figure I prolly oughtta work this **** out before fifty :-)
So I'm a little nuts, could be worse, coulda been bald.... Dumb.... Ugly.... Minor nuttiness ain't so bad once you learn to find the humor in it.
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