seek

Thank you. May all reading have the happiest, healthiest of New Year's - wishing peace, health, happiness, wisdom, joy, and love for all beings.

TakingCharge999

I tend to agree with seek. Its an essential tool to have - to realize who is living according to your set of values, and who is not. Trying to understand the why's is another story though.. I prefer to understand where I am coming from, how I might be failing to my own standards, instead.. Anyone who has hurt me will have to deal with HP, you know? 'No one heals by hurting another'

Seek, I love the sea icon! ((Hugs))

choublak

"I honestly just don't understand how people can destroy themselves and others so easily . . ."

Stop trying to understand something that isn't meant to be understood.

There will always be people who do things that make no sense whatsoever. Maybe they're an alcoholic or a drug addict, or maybe that's just how they "roll"...trying to figure it out just puts a lot of stress on the brain. I used to try to figure everything out, but if I kept on doing so I would've given myself a brain aneurism.

Mightyqueen801

I agree with you, seek, and I do understand that you aren't just trying to trash the alcoholic. I have thought about, tried to understand, and struggled with this mystery for a long time--there is something very basic missing in the alcoholic personality--an inability to understand that their actions harm other people--and it does not seem to be something they can easily learn even when they get sober. I wouldn't say it's impossible. I have known a couple of people in long-time recovery who may have come to understand it--but I think it took them years and possibly being on the receiving end of another alcoholic's behavior to grasp the concept.

It's not even exactly that they don't understand that their actions harm other people--it's that they cannot care that it does. Another person cannot come first in their life--the concept is just not something they can grasp--and I think when that hit home was when I realized that it's even that way with their own children.

It's not a nice thing, and I don't think it's something people want to hear, but I do believe it to be true, again, after many years of experience and observation. I never thought of it as "values" before, however, but I suppose it could be.

seek

I guess the reason I am calling it "values" is because when we ascribe to certain values, we make choices consistent with those values.

I just assumed that some alcoholics would have similar core values (caring about their health, for instance - caring when they hurt someone's feelings, caring when they inconvenience someone, etc.) I know it is "just me," but it's hard for me to grasp that there are people of all kinds out there - even those who are raised in the same families - and not everyone has your best interests at heart.

I personally cannot handle hurting anyone else - it hurts me to hurt others. If I feel I have done something careless or hurtful, it pains me. I thought all people were basically this way and am just realizing that is not the case.

It's hard for me to "understand" and yes, I do have to make sense of life for myself . . .AND I am beginning to realize how complex people can be and that I will never be able to understand or comprehend certain things or people . . .

This thread isn't the "end all and be all" - it's just a realization I had that gives me a way to view things.

I am sure I will have additional insights as time goes on.

choublak

Do YOU have your best interests at heart?

Mightyqueen801

I understand this. Silly me--I also thought things when I first lived with/loved/married my husband that I assumed were universal. I thought that if a man cried to me about how badly he was abused and treated by his brutal, drunk-ass father, he would want to do anything in the world to be different from that father. Instead, he became him.

I thought that going to bars and partying was a temporary stage in life, and that eventually we all grow up and become adults. For some, party-time never ends.

I thought that the overwhelming, unconditional love I felt for our child was something that her father shared and that he, like me, would do anything in the world for her. I was dead wrong, and 21 years later, this is still one that I cannot wrap my heart around.

And worst of all--I thought that if I loved someone enough--if I did everything I could to help them and to make their life better and easier--they would appreciate this love and come to the realization that love is the best way and that what I had done would come back to me. That belief was ground into the dirt like the heel of a giant boot on my soul.

seek

I guess I am on the idealistic and moralistic side.

I used to also think the corporations I worked for would want win/win scenarios for themselves and clients . . . I tend to project my values on others.

As a child, I took my fairy tales very seriously, apparently!

I also assumed everyone who had been "trained" in church as I was, would know right from wrong.

Yes, idealistic and moralistic but I am not going to apologize for it.

My dad was like that too so it's not just me.

The other issue I have is related to common sense: If you drink poison, you're going to get sick. Most people don't like to be sick, so ergo, I don't understand why they knowingly poison themselves. Back to the idealism!

P.S. If these weren't preferred values, people would teach their children to be drunks and liars - but most parents try to teach their children to be healthy and moral.