Pebbles2012

I absolutely love this forum. I havent been here in months but unfortunately my AW says some of the exact same things. She justifies her drinking with the fact that other people do it, it helps me sleep, it calms me down, I should be able to drink in my own house. Biggest bunch of BS. Her mom died of alcoholism and her parents split up because of it and yet she still drinks. Our marriage is in ruins and she says Ive changed. Lol. How can they not see life being so sh*tty? Good luck and stand your ground. Take care of yourself and Merry Christmas.

BrokenHeartWife

Good heavens, no. I do not justify his behaviors. What he was talking about was wrong, just plain wrong. No exceptions.

I don't agree that a person can't have a reasonable discussion with an A when they are sober and calm. If that weren't true, then a sponsor could never have a reasonable discussion with his sponsee.

m1k3

A sponsor can only have that discussion when the sponsoee when they have committed to the program of sobriety. From my years of experience with my wife having a responsible discussion with a active alcoholic, sober our not, is about as useful as trying to teach a horse to sing. It only frustrates you and pisses off the horse.

If they are committed to the program you don't have to say anything and if they aren't it doesn't matter what you say.

Your friend,

LoveMeNow

I have been told that in the old days of AA, if someone talked like your AH is talking, often times the group chipped in and/or even a sponsor would bring them to a bar for a few drinks. If they aren't done, then nothing anyone can say will help, especially a family member. AA is about alcoholics helping other alcoholics.

Also, I have to laugh at myself about all the times I "tried" to help my husband. My own ego was so big that I actually thought I had some kind of knowledge or valuable input about HIS addiction. Now I think - it would be like me telling a pilot how to fly a plane, I would never because I am not a pilot. Or telling a diabetic how to manage their diabetes, when I am not a diabetic. Just doesn't make any sense now when I think about it.

BrokenHeartWife

I am concerned. I wish more doctors were concerned. Patients think as long as they have a Rx, then they SHOULD take these meds.

YVRguy

IMHO no alcoholic who is truly ready to face the fact they are alcoholic and want to recover would ever suggest they could drink any amount ever again. I know because I am an alcoholic and it took a lot of grief for a lot of people till I , yes myself , not anyone else , to get to the acceptance of Step 1 of AA but I think it would hold true to any other method of abstinence and recovery. I am powerless over alcohol ; my life was unmanageable.

Powerless over alcohol means what people have already posted ....one drink is too may and 10000 not enough. It isn't even how much an alcoholic drinks but its what usually happens when they do drink. It never gets better , only worse and it can take people to the gates of jail , insanity or the grave before they see things clearly. An active alcoholic is suffering from a disease and often their sanity especially around drinking is at best spurious.

My sanity began to come back after being sober over a month and realizing Step 2 deeply , that I truly need something much bigger than myself to get my sanity back and for me that was the rooms of AA.

I have but a daily reprieve from alcohol and must do the work that a simple spiritual program provides. Note its simple , not easy.

I was crushed with all my defeats of the past based on self will and knew part of the toll it was taking on others as that fueled guilt and shame. I had to surrender and admit total defeat at the hands of alcohol , a lifelong defeat , done one day at a time , before I had a chance for any kind of life.

Your AH may not be done his drinking if he is trying these tactics. I sure did and soon I was back to it and progressively worse. There is help be it here on SR , the rooms of AA or other places when he feels he is finally licked and defeated. I pray it comes soon .

BrokenHeartWife

Since alcoholism is a progressive disease, it just doesn't make sense to "occasionally drink"...you're only going to get worse...not better or even the same.

If you think you only have a minor case of lung cancer (as if a "minor case" could exist), why would you think that you can still occasionally smoke?


I think one problem that spouses have is that with any other disease, we would be "involved" with the recovery. But with alcoholism, we're supposed to be almost disinterested partners...praying and hoping from afar. It's counter-intuitive for some of us.

If AH were diabetic, I would expect him to be in charge of his meds and checking his blood, but as a wife, I would "be involved" by making sure that I was purchasing and cooking the right kinds of foods. But, if he wasn't doing the med thing correctly, I would likely speak up. I wouldn't just think...oh well...it's his life...if he leaves his insulin in a hot car and it's ruined, that's ok. (my niece nearly died from using insulin that she had left in her hot car.)

Jody675

my exAbf told me he could stop drinking any time. he said that it wasnt that big a deal. he knew he COULD have a problem, but was completely in control. like the fact he would have 8 or so beers in the 4 hours he was home and we went to bed. he would even open a beer on the way up to bed (thats when i really noticed his problem). after he decided to quit, or lose me, he stopped for a couple of weeks. then went out partying with his mate and a had a few. then the next night had a couple of wines, becaue he could handle it and he liked to unwind. end of the day, what i learned in here, if you are an alcoholic then ANY alcohol means you are an alcoholic. but i knew i couldnt control his drinking, and nor did i want to. you are an active participant in his recovery. you are supportive, and loving, and wanting to create an environment that helps recovery of him and you. you just dont see or realise all the things you do do to help him recover for it isnt as concrete as buying or not buy certain foods. tell him your concerns and opinions, but at the end of the day, whether he drinks or doesnt is up to him. you just need to remember your boundaries and stick to them.

Fathom

I agree with you, BHW. It is counter-intuitive, confusing as he!!, and completely abnormal behavior in a loving relationship. What I came to realize was that he cut me out of his life, and our loving relationship when he chose to include alcohol. I thought I had a role to play as his devoted life partner, but I hadn't yet received the memo. He wasn't interested in my help unless it was enabling. This wasn't really obvious to me until it was OBVIOUS. That was when I started actually trying to learn something about alcoholism (after 10 years!).

I also tried having many calm and reasonable sober discussions with him. For the last 6 months that I was with him, this just wasn't possible since he was not remotely sober at any time day or night. Prior to that, I can now see that those sober conversations that we had were just opportunities for him to manipulate me by calmly quacking at me. I always finished those conversations feeling confused and doubting myself. They did neither of us any good.

When I left him, I struggled a lot with the feeling that I was abandoning him, and that I should honor my commitment to him by sticking by him and showing him a path through the brambles. What I realize now is that HE abandoned me, HE dishonored the commitment we made to each other. This was HIS choice, not mine. And, it hurts. It's painful and frustrating.

Many hugs, BHW. You are obviously a very caring and supportive person. That makes it all the harder to detach from his alcoholic behaviors. For me, I never want to find myself in a relationship that requires so much detachment as I needed with my XAH. I can see that some detachment might be good, but all things in moderation, right?

Take good care,
Fathom

LaTeeDa

Been there, done that, got the T-shirt. I rode that merry-go-round for 5 or 6 years. I would coerce him into quitting drinking (usually by threatening to leave) and he would quit--for a while. The longest was four months. Then, things would calm down, I would calm down, and he would start drinking again. A little at first, then back to the full blown, out of control, alcoholic husband. Then, I would get fed up, threaten to leave again, and the whole cycle would start over.

It's a power struggle. You want him to stop, he doesn't want to stop. There is no winning this battle. You can reason with him, threaten him, coerce, blackmail, shame, beg, cry....I did it all. The only thing that ultimately worked was taking my hands off his addiction. It was never my battle to fight.

L

LoveMeNow

BHW - you are going to do what you think is best, just like we all did at one time or another. Most of us found out that trying our best wasn't the answer. Heck, if I told you some of the crazy things I did, you would really question my sanity, as you should.

I spent so much wasted energy and time trying to control my husband and his addiction. I became a great detective and warden. I had all the answers without knowing anything. I had completely lost my self in his addiction. It wasn't until I made him move out, started working a program, found a therapist that I could see things more clearly.

Nothing I did were attempts to control him, it was for me and my emotional health. During this time, he was spirally down and it was hard to watch. But I had no choice to let go and let God. He sunk so low that he finally said "I need help." He knew I wasn't trying to help/enable him anymore and got sick and tired of being sick and tired. (that's not always the outcome though, he was just ready).

Today, he is clean and working a strong recovery program. I couldn't even tell you how long he has been clean for because I am more concerned about my recovery time.

He loves the expression I learned here "hands of the addict" - and really appreciates that I follow it. His recovery is his, he has people to call if he chooses to when his addict voice is messing with him and we both know that I am not his solution nor is he mine.

However, we are working hard on rebuilding our marriage, enjoying each others company and spending quality time together. I also support his recovery by attending some events, parties, or get togethers...I support him as his wife not his sponsor or therapist.

P.S. Early in his recovery, one day I noticed he was very angry and talking "stupid." It was like he was sitting on the fence with an angel on one side and the devil on the other. His addiction was calling him and I wasn't sure who would win out. I could visibly see the struggle he was in. But I stayed detached, said nothing and stayed on my side of the street. He later thanked me for not giving him an excuse and allowing him to figure it out using the tools he has learned. The angel won!

m1k3

LoveMeNow, just to clarify for those not familiar with the saying, it's "hands OFF the addict".

Your friend,

TakingCharge999

Hi BHW

First of all, I am sad just reading your nickname. I am sorry you have gone through so much.

I read that you plan to stay with this person, who is not prepared -definitely not now, and only God knows if he will ever be- to be honest with himself and recover from his addictions.

Is this the life you imagined for yourself? is this why you think God (HP) put you on Earth.. to worry about someone who is NOT worried about himself? someone who is NOT caring about you either (for reasons only he knows...)?

I do not mean to sound blunt, but I have learned addictions are like an abyss, consuming everything around them. We F&F have to realize we matter, too, we have to take care of ourselves, we have to define how taking care of ourselves looks like.

CentralOhioDad

And I'm still trying to figure out that part - of how/what it feels like to take care of me.

JMFburns

For us, the family or friends of addicts/alcoholics, Step 1:

We admitted we were powerless over the addict/alcoholic, that our lives had become unmanageable.

Pretty simple, we can't control them, we have no business even trying.

TakingCharge999

Me too, CentralOhioDad..
After leaving the XABF I thought I was 'cured'. LOL

It turned out I had lived my life so far -30 years- thinking suffering, worry, chaos, depression was all there was to life.... and what a better way to avoid taking a good look at myself, than hanging out with apparently more dysfunctional people?

I have felt ashamed lately just remembering how I let myself down so often. OMG - all the times I have treated myself as if I had no worth.

Tuffgirl

I don't know about others here, but this p'ed me off big time at first, because I agree, it is counter-intuitive to marriage in my mind. I'll be totally and bluntly honest, too. This is not the kind of marriage I want. Ever again. But after several years in Al-Anon and working with a personal therapist who is a specialist in addictions, I recognize the "hands off the addict" is the only way to handle it, for our own sanity. If not, like TC says above, we get sucked into the abyss of addictions too, and that is not a fun place to live one's life.

BHW, more will be revealed here. Have some patience and wait and see what he does with this. So far, it is only words.

m1k3

If nothing else, this journey toward recovery has taught me patience. My life has gotten so much better since I don't feel the need to immediately jump into a situation and try to fix it.....



most of the time.

Your friend,

TakingCharge999

Addiction, Lies and Relationships

LoveMeNow

oops, another typo! I suffer from typoitisis (and poor proofreading skills). My apologies for the confusion.

Thank you Mike for clarifying.