Question for people who choose to stay............
 

I have decided for the 5th time - I am tired of the roller coaster. As you have read I found a place - it seemed ok - I panicked last night - thought I was having heart attack with a heavy chest - the fellow told me I had to pay today - and move by Jan 1 or I lost place. It didn't feel right - something in me put up red flags so I backed out. AH stopped by today to get something for work and I told him crying hysterically I could not do it- I needed to stay here for a while - could he stay at his parents for a while longer and I figure it out. He said fine and tried to be sympathetic - told me he was working on himself - getting pot out of system and working on the drinking and being more spiritual - of course told me he loved me - I was more than guarded - he told me to take as long as I need here - we will talk about us if there is an us or what I want to do in 30 days . AH would never leave me - he loves me. He told me to work on me and I need to.

I am the one who always says enough. He of course says he will be better - he is for a while then the drinking comes back and sometimes the pot and that is when he is super ugly. Ok - well my sons are freaking out - they think I am doing the dance again and weakening- they only want me to be happy - they are young men - 23 on his own and 20 year old here leaving in Fall for 4 year college. I told them I just can't put so much pressure on myself right now with my folks passing away - my dog being old and sick - being 100% commission - my oldest said I am making excuses and maybe I am. I am just not strong right now . My one son rolled his eyes and when he saw I looked so upset he said it was ok- but I don't blame him for rolling eyes really.

Ok here is my question - it is 2 fold - what if my kids lose respect for me is the first? I raised them - they love me alot and are proud of me as I am them - why do I worry they won't love me anymore from me not being strong right now. As my one son said if they keep trying to support my decision to leave AH when he is an ass - and I backtrack it is frustrating and disapponting to them. I hate to upset anyone- major childhood issue. They have never judged me - are super grateful kids and I adore them - I guess that is some whacked mental thinking of mine - but I am really worried about it.

Secondly- you people that stay with your spouse - how do you do it - how do you not let the same issues just **** you off - weigh you down again- how do you live with an A who is good and loving and nice and then relapses some and becomes that evil A - how do you leave someone you love - even though they are not perfect - they are perfect in Gods eyes- I am not perfect I am messed up- but I really think he loves me in his own way for who I am -now he is self centered - I may not be an A but I am so codependent. It is like we can love each other when we are not together but when we live together we are not respectful of each other - me included. I don't love him as he is - I put conditions on it.

Ok- with that being said my friends today told to be easy on myself - I don't have to decide this today or tomorrow- I need to turn it over to my HP - I just want to know how others do it - what made you decide to stay ? Why didn't you leave even though you know the road will be rough. I am so lost and I just want to hug my Daddy and tell him I love him! Thank you for listening - I am grateful for any ideas. So messed up right now.

Hi Susie

Our kids are so honest.

They see the flaws but they want us to be happy.

My 12 yr old said to me at one stage "Mum, you keep hoping he'll change but he's not going to". She was dead right.

My 9 yr old said lastnight "I'll never forget the time xabf did ......

There is some truth in what in our kids say & they too have a right to say but they want us to be happy so they won't enforce it.

It will have to be your decision.

Sorry can't offer any more advice than that sweetie.

Hugs to you, your wonderful kids & old dog.
:ghug3

Hi Susie I stayed for a long time. I used to feel so guilty cos of our kids and I remember my daughter saying once - don't stay because of us, you are more affected than we are!
Years later she said - "look mummy you need to get it into your head that daddy doesn't care - he doesn't care about you or me, or anybody else all he wants to do is drink!"
The kids see things that we can't .

I eventually left so sorry I can't say how the ones who stay do it. I think you have to really just listen to/follow your instincts. ((Hugs))

Susie, staying or going is a very personal thing to decide. ANd if you are not ready, then you are not ready. I knew when it was time. I knew I could not go on one more day with things as they were at that moment. The pain and inconvenience of leaving didn't seem near as bad as staying to put up with more cruelty and abuse, and like you, I was concerned about the influence on my daughters. I didn't want them to think this is how relationships looked like or how men treat women. It was simply not acceptable behavior.

I was scared and definitely unsure. But my sponsor said give it a year - yes a full year - and see what happens during that year. Do nothing but focus on my own life and my kids. Let the A figure our recovery on his own. I also thought it would be interesting to see who he'd be mad at without me around.

About 15 months later, after some serious craziness, he decided I would "never live with him again as husband and wife" and proceeded with a divorce. Didn't matter what I had to say about that - his mind was made up. And because I was enjoying living away from him anyway - divorcing wasn't near as bad as I thought.

I had to let go of the fear of the unknown to really move on. I had to have faith in myself and my higher power that I was going to be ok. And sure enough, I am better than ok! I am great! I love my life, my little house, my freedom, my entire bed to myself (sometimes shared with dogs!). I love knowing that I am coming home to possibly some teenage hormonal drama but certainly not a drunk angry and shouting at me. I know I won't be woken up in the middle of the night to a drunken tantrum.

So for me - I felt it was costing me more to stay in that relationship than it would to be on my own again. And that made the decision to leave that much easier.

If you are not there yet - that's ok. Take more time. You'll know, one way or another. Because the right path for you is the path that just works, and you will know when you are on it!

Peace, enjoy your holidays regardless!
~T

What happened to you sounds like a panic attack. I had a few of them myself. I think it's really important not to make any decisions when you are in panic mode. (That goes for any overly emotional state, BTW.) I made the decision to leave when I was angry. I made the decision to take him back when I was lonely and scared. In both cases, it was not my inner wisdom I was listening to. It was my emotions.

If you can ride out the emotions and wait to make big decisions when you are calm and centered, there is less chance of regretting them later. Just a little ESH from me.

L

Maybe this thing has beaten you up enough without you joining in :-)

First, your sons are behaving normally, they aren't disappointed in you, they are disappointed in him and worried for you. If they were ambivalent, then worry.

My 17 yo and I are fortunate, we have always stuck together and talk about everything. I put up with a lot from my ex but when she went after my baby girl (verbally) that was it. Later she told me how much she hated seeing me walking on eggshells for years.

I've had a rough year and she got annoyed with me because I wasn't paying attention to her needs, I saw that eye roll a time or two. I sat down and gave her a filtered rundown of everything and since then she's back to being her cuddly self. It's ok to let your boys know that you are scared and that you need their patience and support. Mama is doing her best and is making changes. Here's a secret about us boys, we are suckers for vulnerability :-)

So this place did not work, maybe the next one will be a much better fit. You said you guys are separated so you are not sliding backward, you just refrained from pushing ahead recklessly because your gut said no.

So how about not kicking your own butt for a couple weeks, enjoy the holiday and look at your pace for a solution that DOES feel right? You may be there for a while so why not wait and see? When DD and I moved out from my ex it took us three weeks to find the right place but moving is a PITA so I'm glad we took an extra couple weeks.

Some of those corny slogans come in handy when you start getting down on yourself...

My favorite is progress, not perfection. The first is achievable, the second is not and besides, if you were perfect and hung around here you would really be kind of annoying to those of us already dealing with self doubt.

Tomorrow is another day.

IMO, for most to stay without going "insane" means we have to work the program we wished they would.

As I got healthier and healthier, my kids saw a difference in me. They could still learn from us - even as young adults. As we grow stronger and healthier, so does their new respect.

Its really a no lose situation to work a program with all our energy. We get healthier and stronger......to live our lives with or without them. Also, itt makes difficult decisions much easier when we are restored back to sanity. :)

I am where you are right now. Trying to decide if I stay or leave. You know the old saying..."Don't just stand there, do something"? Well, in a meeting recently I heard it said "Don't just do something, stand there"!! Meaning, if you're conflicted or in crisis, sometimes it's best to do nothing in that moment. Give yourself the time to think it through, and let go of the guilt.

Redheadedsuzie,

A couple of things to consider.

You have a lot more rights and possibilities than you are taking advantage of and maybe that is why you are still where are you.

More will be revealed.

If you are upside down in your mortgage then I would find an expert in foreclosure (If you pm me I will try to find an expert near you to refer you to) to determine if your mortgage was one of the MANY that were full of fraud. It is too complicated to go into here but trust me... this could change your entire picture in a hurry.

I don't know what state you are in but foreclosures take time... a lot of time. Plenty of time for you to live in the house that you are entitled to live in if that is the direction you go in.

If he has moved out then you have possession. Document it. Talk to a lawyer about this. Usually you can get free consultations.

It sounds as if you are creating boundaries and your situation is somewhat stable. Are you in counseling or alanon? Both are even better... :)

Take care of you. Learn all you can about your legal options.

Time is your friend. More will be revealed... it always shines a light on the right path.

I stay because I am genuinely happy. I have been through periods where I wasn't happy and did consider leaving our relationship. This had more to do with me allowing bad behavior - avoiding the issues and fights because I preferred they just go away rather than erupt into an argument.

I don't do that anymore. He relapsed this past summer. First time for me. The secrecy and denial was terrifying but overall it was not a bad one. I found SR and Al Anon and started working on me and my behavior and just let him do his thing. I started firing back for a change, I put my foot down on behavior that was unacceptable in the house and this had nothing to do with his drinking. It had much more to do with how he deals with problems, conflict and moods - the things he says and a seeming belief that he could say whatever he wanted to without repercussion.

We aren't perfect but we are better. We genuinely love each other - its great most of the time. We do still have our arguments which are few and I stand up to him and say my peace. His behavior is changing. If the changes aren't permanent and we slide back into the old ways its over I don't care how much I love him. Rollercoaster living is not for me.

As for your sons I do understand this very well. RAH parents have a horrific relationship. I love his mom, I love his Dad I despise them together they bring out the worst in each other. RAH is too often caught in the middle. He and his mom are very close - she tells him everything. While his father's behavior is often inexcusable I can't deny that his mom is just as much at fault but its never presented this way. By the time their argument has reached its pinnacle and RAH's ears his father has said something really horrible - the lead up to that it never addressed his mother who is OCD and very manipulative and wants and will get everything her way never feels she did a think to deserve the outcome. Regardless of who did what the situation is toxic for all involved. Just last week was one of their bigger blow ups with her (once again) threatening divorce. My RAH literally got caught in the middle with dad yelling at him when he did nothing other than walk in in the middle of their fight. It was 3 days of Mom telling and reliving ever horrible thing Dad ever did to her and how she is leaving "this is IT" "I am DONE" "I won't put up with this ANYMORE' "Your father is a horrible man!!!". Now guess what? They are on their way together for vacation for Christmas. A vacation she canceled last week so he would hear her loud and clear that she will NOT be treated like this. She has spent the past 2 days back pedaling and coming to the defense of Dad She is now quoting scripture about forgiveness and is irritated with my husband, her son, because he is not letting it go. She says part of the reason is because it is Christmas and she is doing it for us. We could give a rats ass.....

With all that fighting they do they consistently proclaim that they love each other. They never waiver on that. Hmmm.

This has been going on for 49 years. Its a wonder my RAH wasn't an alcoholic living and being nurtured in such a toxic sick environment. My biggest issues with his behavior is when he acts like his parents - and why wouldn't he? That is learned behavior and it can be UNLEARNED and it is being unlearned - or he can hit the pavement.

My RAH has a poor relationship with his father and it has scarred him terribly. IMO his dad, while quirky and not always amiable, is actually a pretty good guy. The resentments from hearing mom relay their fights and talk about what a horrible man he is prevents RAH from being able to connect with his dad. They are a house divided and he is equally disgusted with his mother for all her talk and NO action. We have finally said to her to stop involving us (she won't). What goes on between them shouldn't be dumped in my husband's lap then expected that he should dismiss it then support them when THEY have decided to call a truce. I call it the honeymoon - we are in that phase now. In a week, maybe a month it will be back to the way it was last week.

I am very sympathetic to your fears about moving. Please consider your children and what they have had to watch and hear and how it will affect them long term in their own relationships.

If you want things to change with AH and give it another go then you must change (as you have pointed out). Keep doing what you are doing and you will keep getting what you are getting.

You had a panic attack - not a good time to make a major decision. You are trying and you WILL figure it out - I would advise to leave your children out of it in as much is possible and rely on friends, SR, and any other support outside of them.

I am overcome with gratitude for your words of wisdom and support. I can't tell you how much it means- I hope that one day I can return the wisdom and advice but don't feel capable of that now. Time will tell - I absolutely love the saying Don't just do something stand there- thank you Recovering2 - and again thank you all from the bottom of my heart. I don't feel so alone.

Does your AH refuse to quit drinking? If so, that's a whole 'nuther issue.

Or, is he quitting, relapsing, quitting, relapsing, etc?

Does he want to quit drinking? Does he recognize that he behaves badly while drinking? If not, have you considered secretly recording him and then showing him later?

Does your H have a personality disorder? (Many A's have some kind of mental issue, and I think the "drunk evil ones" are more likely to have a personality disorder, etc.)

As someone who spent years (nearly a decade?) trying to shame my AH into quitting drinking, I advise against this. Yes, I did it, and I'm not proud of it. It only p!ssed him off. So much so, that he broke the video camera........

In my experience, shaming an alcoholic only adds to their self-loathing and makes things worse instead of better. It also started to change me into someone I didn't like very much.

Much better to spend that energy on self-awareness and transform your own life.

L

Seeking recovery is inside job. It is something he has to want and need for himself. Nothing you do can change him. Only he has that power. Any attempts to control, fix, humiliate or manipulate are feeding into the sickness of codependency and doesn't help the addict.

You can not cause it!
You can not control it!
You can nor cure it!

I guess we were posting at the same time but I like your post much better. Thank you! :)

He has refused to quit drinking- says he can control it -says I want to take everything from him - he says he has given up weed and put it on calendar - 2.5 weeks. I am happy for him about that but pissed at the same time because we went through this last year and he told me when we reconciled he was done with weed - he can lose his job because of it - I knew he was doing it though - he changes completely. He will more than likely never give up drinking - as for mental disorders - probably - he has been depressed on and off his whole life- and the drinking makes that so much better - right - wth? Anyway- he is extremely self centered - has anger issues even when not drinking . He has lost his first wife - his 3 bio kids rarely speak to him or see him and are all super messed up from not having a Dad and the damage he has done by blaming their Mom for everything wrong in his life and he really doesn't pursue relationships with them - he is losing us - myself and my 2 sons - his parents are major enablers and I guess I have been to when I keep taking him back . Anyway- I need to just get through each day and deal with myself- I have tried to fix him for over 10 years and I can't - he has good qualities in there - I know that - but truly as my 23 year old said - he is damaged goods and he can probably never be there for me as a husband should be. One day at a time...........

It,s just really stressful. You really need your own life if you stay.

Some people react badly to seeing themselves acting badly in recordings, but some actually are so shocked that it actually makes a difference. Some people truly have no idea that they "look that way" when drunk.

My Ah was "scared $hitless" that my recordings of him would get shown to the judge during our divorce. lol He knew that I had literally over 100 of such recordings...both audio and video...including voice mails.

I wouldn't have the recording device around when the person is shown the recording so that he can break it.