BlueSkiesAgain

Redapples - I am not an alcoholic but my father and son are both recovering. My son is only 21. I never ever learned anything about alcoholics as a child. Since I found out my 21yo is an alcoholic I have had many of the same questions. I really wanted to understand the alcoholic. I read lots of stuff on here. Much of what is on this thread was for me to help me. I spent a lot of time reading the threads for the newly recovering. Those that only had a day, a week, a month sober. These are the people who helped me understand my son. They were willing to answer my questions and gave advice on how to help my son. I read a lot on this families of alcoholics thread to help me and teach me how to take care of myself. I read a lot on the alcoholics thread to understand what makes my son tick. I will say learning to understand the things my son is feeling and the hardships that come along with being an alcoholic has helped me tremendously. My son is not drinking now and is in early recovery. Knowing what he is thinking and feeling helps me talk to him and lets him know that I am trying to understand.

As far the meetings, I just found an Al-Anon meeting here so haven't been yet. But my son attends AA daily. He has tried about 8-10 different groups because not all meet everyday. He has found 3 that he is comfortable with - 2 are closed and 1 is open. I think the meetings vary widely.

I don't know what it is like to have a spouse or SO that is an alcoholic but I have learned a lot from people who have. Also, having a child that is an alcoholic I often find myself thinking the advice doesn't apply to me because I'm dealing with a child and not a spouse but the truth is most of it does just the players are different.

I'm new to all of this but I'm willing to share any information I have learned.

BlueSkies1

Redapples,
I may be able to shed some light on understanding these meetings.

First, in the AA meetings, you will find different personalities just like everywhere in life. Some people may actually stand up and air their dirty laundry or express their remorse, and others may never reveal openly in a meeting anything they have done. But, for most alcoholics to stop drinking, I assume that they have to not focus on the bad they created, but focus on a new way forward. Imagine if you had lived a miserable life and wanted to change it. You would need to keep a positive outlook to move forward. You couldn't dwell on every mistake you had made, or else you would feel so horrible about yourself that you couldn't make progress to a better future. I assume this is true for alcoholics. They do however follow steps, and step 4 states that they are to take personal inventory, which is to examine their faults as well as good traits. Later they are to atone to all those they can. If you read the steps you will see this. I think it is probably for most alcoholics a private matter between them, their sponsor, and those they have to make amends to, and most more than likely don't speak about that during meetings, although I know that a few do share their personal failings in their past, once they have grown past the guilt and amended their ways.

I too was very confused when I first went to some Alanon meetings. I couldn't understand why they were telling me that I had to work the program steps and get better. I was not the alcoholic! I wasn't sick, he was!
But the truth is that most people closely associated with alcoholics also get sick. The drama, dysfunction, and all the rest of it takes a toll. A few people may enter a relationship with an alcoholic and leave soon enough to avoid this, but nobody who stays in said relationship for very long stays well and unscathed. That is why the focus is on improving the thinking and life of the alanon member. It is also because we can't control alcoholics, so we focus on what we can control, which is ourselves.
As for you personally--you mentioned you should have left the relationship. I think by reading good books on the subject, coming here, and attending meetings if you so choose, and individual therapy if you can, you will be able to make the right decision for you over time. You may leave, or you may not. Nobody here will tell you to leave a relationship with an alcoholic (unless you are in danger) because it is your decision, and you are not to be told what to do. You are an adult able to make your own choice.
The one other thing I want to mention is that in theory, if the alanon person gets help with their issues that have arisen, or the alcoholic does, that if one person starts getting well, it will affect the relationship in positive ways for both parties.
Think of these meetings as group therapy for you. Not to cure the alcoholic, which is solely their decision whether to stop drinking or not. These meetings are to examine yourself, why you are in a relationship with an alcoholic, what drew you to that relationship, what personal shortcomings and negative thinking you have that can be improved upon, and to make progress with all of your emotions so that you can move forward in life and not stay in limbo. To unravel your confusion. To learn what your anger really means.
You may decide these meetings aren't for you. That's your choice. Just find the path that works for you--to improve your life if you are miserable or in pain.

redatlanta

Sounds like to me that you aren't connecting with the people in your Al-anon group at all. I live in a big city - our group is comprised of both sexes, all races, gay, straight and in between, and different religions (or none).

Try some different meetings or look and see if you can pinpoint some particular interest groups with your al-anon meetings I know here they do that.

The stepford wife would be hard for me to relate to as would a group of women only that have kids - I don't.

DesertEyes

Hello Redapples, and pleased to "meet" you

Well of course. We _all_ have a hard time dealing with this, that's why there are so many programs, and websites, and books, and therapists. The difficulty with answers is that they are different for every person. It's all fine for peeps to tell me I am "co-dependent", and my ex-wife is a "prescription pill addict", but those are just labels, not answers for my needs.

Actually, no. Think of meetings like courses in college. There's different career tracks, and in each one there are introductory courses leading all the way up to advaced studies.

Each of the different 12 step programs have their own specialty. Last I looked there are over 100. They are broadly divided into the "chemical" programs, for people with chemical disorders like AA, NA, OA, etc. The other programs are the "collateral" ones, for people who have been injured by the addictions of the people in the "chemical" programs.

hmmm.... It seems to me that somebody forgot to tell you an important word in that suggestion. That would be 8 _different_ meeting of al-anon. Not the same meeting 8 times.

ummm... no. Somebody directed you the wrong way. _Why_ they drink is a medical / chemical issue. They give classes on that at the larger, hospital-based, recovery centers. Not at AA.

Within the program of AA there are meetings refered to as "Speaker" meetings. These are open to the community and they have one person share the story of their _recovery_ for the duration of the meeting. Now, some of these are very small, and the person speaking doesn't have much recovery at all. At the other end there are huge ones with a couple hundred members and they invite internationally renown peeps who have a lot more recovery to share.

The purpose of these meetings is to see that it is possible for peeps to live without addiction. You also get to see that some people are just not all that different without addiction, while others have an almost magical change of personality.

You won't see that at a regular meeting. Peeps only get a few minutes to share, so you are not going to get much depth.

You are correct. That is exactly how it looks if you only hear them talk for 5 minutes. If they are fairly new to recovery they are likely still a bit pickled in the brain and don't really have a grasp on reality quite yet.

The differnces between the programs can be very subtle. They all are based on the same "12 steps". Even though the _cause_ of their pain is different, the path to recovery is the same. Unless you take a little time to study the fundamentals of recovery in general, and the details of each program, it really is very confusing.

Yes, that would be wonderful, wouldn't it? I never heard it from my parents either. Haven't heard it from my ex.

You might want to take a moment to examine that whole concept of "remorse". If you browse around SR you will see that many people do, in fact, express remorse. Volumes of it. Especially when they are in jail. But nothing else changes. Remorse is just words about the past. Recovery is about the present. When a person _really_ is in recovery they do a whole lot more than say nice words. They _show_ you that they have changed by their actions.

Suppose your partner, or your father, did actually say all the words you wanted to hear. But nothing else changed?

That is one of the "lessons", if you will, from recovery for friends and family. The lesson is that words are usseless. It's only _actions_ that matter.

I think that is another case of somebody giving you incorrect directions. The answers are not in the meetings, of _any_ program. What you will find in meetings is _examples_ of how people are dealing with addiction and what answers _they_ are finding for their own needs. Some of those peeps are good examples, some are bad, and many are just lost. None of _their_ answers will be of benefit to you.

The answers are found by studying all the written material, examining those portions that apply to you, observing how other people put that to use in their own lives, and then _you_ deciding what specific actions you are going to take based on your observations.

That is why it is so frustrating. There is no quick and easy solution. It takes a lot of work and perseverance. That is also why so many addicts do _not_ recover, why so many spouses keep getting in the same relationship with different people, and on and on.

If I may be so bold as to make a suggestion? And if I am completely incorrect please disregard. Perhaps if you took a step back for just a moment and consider a day off from your search? I think you may be missing the forest for the trees. I think you are so deep into the details of meetings and programs and people that you have not been able to see the big picture. Am I making sense with that?

Mike
Moderator, SR

sugarbear1

Remorse is real, but staying stopped requires me to live in a new solution. It's not about telling others the stuff I did when drinking, that is for my 4th and 5th steps with my sponsor.

AA meetings exist so that a newcomer can find us and find a sponsor to work on the steps; to work on themselves.

Of course we regret our actions. Some of that is why we continued to drink, to push aside our bad feelings of shame, guilt and remorse. Those feelings only grew inside of us.

Maybe find an Al Anon group, find your own sponsor, and work your own 12 steps.

We can't control others, we can work on ourselves.

Meetings help us find others like us, but it's in doing work on self where we find the relief and freedom. Trying to hear the words we want, well, that's playing a power greater than ourselves.

Try moving forward with your own recovery. And yes, alcoholics do feel horrible for their actions.

PaperDolls

I'm an alcoholic and an ACOA.

I attend AA as my main support.

Alanon is for Friends and Family of Alcoholics.
ACOA is for Adult Children of Alcoholics.
AA is for alcoholics.

I have attended Alanon and ACOA as well, but not on a regular basis. To me, alanon and acoa are not much different except that the acoa group probably won't include spouses and parents of alcoholics. The fact is, we're all trying to deal with the same feelings.

I suggest focusing on the similarities, not the differences. It's not always easy to do but it helps me.

Hopefully, you'll find the ACOA meeting a better fit for you.

Either way, keep posting and reading here. You'll find a ton of support.

m1k3

Mike, thanks for that great post. I was doing some soul searching trying to come up with something to say but I feel like you covered it all.

Redapples, as an ACOA and Spouse of an Alcoholic, this is path of growth, understanding and healing for myself, it is about becoming sane and even content and learning to live my life for me. It is a long road but so rewarding. As others have said it doesn't have to be in the rooms of recovery (Al-Anon, ACOA) and that there are other paths and in my experience this forum has been been a huge one.

Read the stickies (permanent posts) at the top of the friends and family home page and you will find a lot of useful information that directly applies to the types of questions you are asking now.

Your friend,

SoaringSpirits

You may be waiting a long time. My experience is that this kind of resolution does not come with alcoholism. The only closure I've been able to get is what I can gain on my own.

I tried several different Al Anon meetings and found them all to be a little different. I finally landed on one that felt like a good fit. Also have read tons of books and gone to counseling with an addiction specialist. Very helpful.

We even have AA and Al Anon on horseback in my county --- there is something for everyone, LOL.

As tough as all this has been, I feel like I have grown so much as a person and I'm ultimately quite grateful for having walked this path. Taking responsibility for my own life, setting boundaries, walking away from toxic people -- all good stuff.

BlueSkies1

We will never get the type of remorse we are looking for. Not some kind of remorse that balances out what was imbalanced. Not some type of remorse that makes up for the damage done. It will never happen.
Instead, what we can get, is a happiness within ourselves, about ourselves. This is the only way to balance out and cure the past damage. This making up for damage done--is not what we at first hope it will be--on their knees atonement...instead, it comes from within us, as a gift to ourselves. We cure ourselves, they do not give us a gift of curing ourselves, they are unable to give that gift--no person on the earth can give us that gift, we can only give it to ourselves.

Hopeworks

Ady,

That is the core of the program is accepting others right where they are and they are sharing out of their own belief system, their own experience and they and we only know what we know what we know.

We cannot know what we do not know.

The miracle is when we can go into a meeting and when someone is rubbing us the wrong way (usually a broken soul) we can address our own level of intolerance and judgement as a character defect we need to deal with.

We all have different ideas about a lot of things and we are all on a path of change and growth. What I believed a few years ago is radically different in many areas now.

I used to be the worst judge and jury on shares! How wrong is that? I have to constantly remind myself that I am there to be a blessing and to see what the HP of my understanding has for me that day to learn or to share. Just going is a surrender sometimes.

I have come a long way and am much better. Patience is a virtue that I have not had enough growth in. If I were a vulture I would be one that kills its victims instead of waiting it out.

The old eat the hay and spit out the straw is my motto. Sometimes I have to admit that what I thought was straw was really hay and I just thought in my own understanding it was straw!

fourmaggie

"I" go because 'I' do get "something" out of these Al anon/AA/NA meetings...and I take what i want and leave the rest....

it helps me put the dysfunction of what i lived with and society together in a HEALTHY way for me....