ForeverOptimist

Why is it all so confusing??? I am entering this weekend after a very rough weekend last week when AH was drunk most of the time -- including holiday family time. He's been moping around the house this week and says he's embarrassed about how much he drank. But he stops short at ever apologizing for his behavior and how he treated me and the kids. Our attempt at discussing it yesterday led to typical quacking about how hard it is for him to be out of work... You get the picture.

Fast forward to tonight. AH went up to bed to watch TV. I was tired so I decided to go up, too. Well, he took that to be an invitation that we were going to get intimate. He kept getting in my face and trying to get me to kiss him. I'll go as far as a quick kiss but my heart is too guarded right now to give anything else. I told him I could only kiss him and he kept pushing for a more passionate kiss. I started to get uncomfortable at being asked to do something that I had just said "no" to. He was clearly not respecting my boundaries. So I got out of bed and went downstairs. He followed me down asking what my problem was and we are husband and wife and it's been 3 months (try 2 weeks) and he's trying to take the high road and I'm just shut off ... Blah blah. I tried to explain that he was asking for something that I wasn't ready for and I still have trust issues. He starts saying that he's been wanting to go to MC but when he brings it up, I don't say anything. He wants to go out on a date night, and I don't say anything. So now he's DONE. Went upstairs and slammed the door.

So here I am feeling bad again. I don't have a problem sticking to my boundaries, bu in some ways he is right - I've shut down. I'm withdrawn. I know I'm not supposed to be like that but I don't know how else to protect my heart. Just because he hasn't been drinking since last Sunday and he's really trying I'm supposed to trust that and our marriage should be normal again??? I know I need time to heal but I wish I didn't feel so horrible about myself right now.

lillamy

Don't. Don't beat yourself up.
One of the things my alcoholic marriage did to me was that it wore down my sense of what was healthy boundaries for my body. You are sticking to yours, as well you should.

In a healthy relationship, if one spouse refuses intimacy, a normal reaction from the other spouse would be to a) respect that and b) work on whatever issues are creating a situation where the first spouse feels that way.

In my marriage, my AXH was under the impression that as long as we were having sex, everything was fine. So if he could hold me down and do it to me, that was good enough for him, then our marriage was hunky dory. I stopped fighting it and just let him. It took me a very long time to even be able to touch my own body in the shower without nausea. And I'm telling you this only because I wish in retrospect I had had the strength to stick to my boundaries.

There is nothing wrong with you. There is something wrong with a person who thinks another human being owes him sex. Something seriously, seriously wrong.

Kimmieh

He has really been trying for a week and all your trust is supposed to be back? and things are back to normal. In what world?

You have every right to heal from the damage on your own terms and if sex is not part of that healing process, he will have to deal. Don't feel horrible!

Redheadsusie

I completely understand how you feel and am so sorry. My Ah does the same thing and I am so not ready to be intimate. After all of the hurt and lies for me about alcohol - my trust in him is gone and I am emotionally shut down. He doesn't drink 1 day and wants me to reward him - it doesn't work that way. You can't just make yourself get that back- it has to be earned imho. I am not a woman who is gonna just do it to make him happy - not gonna happen - Not being spiteful but if I am not feeling it - you can kiss my ass and leave me alone - sending support and sorry he was not nice. I wish you peace!

thislonelygirl

Its a battle forever optomist..within ourselves and for them to understand. Yes he hasnt drank and perhapse trying but clearly still in a bit of denial how much you have been through.
Battle scars dont heal emotionally just because he says they should perhapse further into sobreity he will find empathy inside recovery to understand the impact it had on yalls relationship.

Redheadsusie

thislonelygirl- Very well written and so true- once mean mean things are said and hurtful things are done- you can't take them back. You can't unring a bell!

BlueSkies1

I'm sorry Foreveroptimist.
I could have written your post many times over, over many years.
It kind of made me sick to my stomach to read it, it struck so close to my past.
It's not right that he puts the pressure on you, when he is a full-blown alcoholic. He refuses to look in the mirror. I know that sick feeling that he gives to you by guilting you on sex, or anything else he decides to put the heat on you about.
When he tries to turn it back on you, the only suggestion I have is to throw it back at him, right where it belongs.
Tell him again that he has a serious drinking problem, that he needs help, that everything else is conditional upon him taking care of his drinking problem. That MC, and date nights, don't fix the damage caused by alcohol, and it is not possible to barter mc, or date nights, to repair damage done by alcohol abuse.
He is trying to barter, see? It can't be done. You have to tell him that. He is going to vehemently fight it--anything to take the heat off him and put it back on you. A drinking problem is NOT fixed by trying to make up for it in other ways. A drinking problem's path of destruction is not cleaned up by diverting attention in other ways. A drinking problem is only fixed by addressing the drinking problem. If you haven't said these things, it is time to do so.
If you've said those things already, or if he blows you off when you do say them, then it is time to focus on yourself, and put him aside, at least emotionally if not more.
I believe these are the steps necessary. 1) Say your version of what I said above-to put the focus back on the alcohol abuse where it belongs. It has to be said because at least you will know you stated your peace and that you tried to rationalize and get him to see the damage he creates. You will be able to check that off the list of must-dos...you did state the facts.
2) If he doesn't listen, then you go to your version of plan B.
Your version of plan B might include things such as alanon, therapy for yourself, and whatever is necessary from then on, to find your peace and serenity in this life. Whether you stay or leave is your decision. I can only say that for me, the stress, guilt, and pain of staying became too much. At some point I said to myself--My days on this planet are numbered and I can't spend them in misery.
When someone else has the ability to destroy our self-esteem with a few words--then it is time to look at how we can rebuild it, and how we are ultimately in control of our self-esteem, and have a responsibility to ourselves and the quality of our life, to protect it.
I hope you find your way, whatever actions are necessary, to find that place inside yourself where you decide that your self-esteem is absolutely necessary to enjoy your life. It's a long way back from diminished self-esteem. Please do for yourself anything you can to find the road back. If he won't listen to reason and get help, sometimes we have only the hard choice of choosing ourselves, or diminishing ourselves to their madness. Remember this--an active alcoholic will bulldoze right over your self-esteem if you let them. Protect it.

Tuffgirl

Who says you "aren't supposed to be like that" when you have been hurt and disappointed repeatedly? Where is that rule written anywhere?

How else do we protect ourselves but by withdrawing from the thing that hurts us? Why is your reaction not a "normal" one in your mind?

Last night, I built a fire in the fireplace. The log shifted after I put it in and lit it, so (stupidly) I reached in to bump it back into place with my hand, and it was HOT! It burned the side of my hand, so I yanked my hand away. I withdrew from what hurt me. It is what we do, physically and emotionally.

Don't feel bad for meeting your own needs and not someone else's.

dandylion

Dear ForeverOptimist---You are not crazy!!!!

I must say that I agree 100% with what MadeOfGlass has posted to you---especially, the part of making your position clear--VERY clear---and exactly why. You need (for yourself) to express to him what damage the alcoholism has done to the very fabric of your marriage--which includes your intimate feelings about him. His actions are not without consequences--and he doesn't get to define those consequences!!

As MadeOfglass pointed out---he may not "get" it--but it will help your self-esteem to voice it clearly.

I am so sorry that you are going through this. You must stand for yourself. You can't expect an active alcoholic to.

sincerely, dandylion

PohsFriend

Ditto the other responses so I'll comment on a different aspect.

Withdrawal is a step away from divorce. Intimacy is where we want to be, conflict is where we go when that intimacy is disrupted by "little" things like what he's been doing and withdrawal is where we go when conflicts never resolve. The next step for most people is divorce, an affair or both.

Males equate sex with more than just fun believe it or not, rejection stings and makes us feel rejected and unwanted and not accepted and I. This case all those apply so that a accurate but also dangerous. You are feeling withdrawn, he is having a pity party with his being out of work and cut off as party guests. That situation is REALLY vulnerable for both of you.

Rejecting sex until you are ready for intimacy is perfectly rational but you mentioned no desire for marriage counseling. That's the one I'd gently suggest you look hard at. It might be cathartic to sit down with a counselor, let him whine for a couple minutes and then just unburden yourself and lay out what his behavior has been and how it makes you feel. You want MC? Great, let's do that. Pick I e who knows all about addiction and is willing to call ********.

That might bring things back to conflict but that's the only path back to intimacy, door number two is divorce and withdrawal is a temporary state - it leads back to conflict or to the exit because nobody can stay there forever.

redatlanta

I second marriage counseling. You have communication issues - he tries, he fails, - a reason to drink again??? (aka stinkin thinkin).

This doesn't mean you are wrong in the way you feel you feel what you feel, can't fake what he is wanting anyway and why should you?

Its hard to rebuild trust. Very hard. A week sober pfffff I am sure there have been other weeks and other days of sobriety that this isn't completely new. What about getting into a program - treatment, AA, rehab - things that point toward trying that would establish a foundation for possibly being able to trust him again?

Sorry this is happening and glad to hear you stood your ground.

dandylion

I would like to add that couples therapy is generally not recommended until there has been a period of sustained sobriety---and, even then, it should be with someone who also has experience with alcoholism. However, individual therapy in the meantime can be invaluable.

sincerely, dandylion

Loopydays

IMHO that marriage counselling can be problematic unless both parties are willing and have sustained sobriety, as Dandylion says.
We went to MC on the advice of my RAH rehab counsellor when he came out- not a good idea. He might have seemed to be compliant in Rehab- but MC was a disaster for us. He could not 'deal' with being told the truth, would lie throughout the sessions - after 6 sessions I called it a halt. The counsellor was good, but not used to dealing with alcoholics- ahe would sympathise with him, and he would turn the atttention to how difficult he found recovery.
We are still together - its not easy, but at least I do not have unralistic expectations, that had been fuelled by his lies.
Active alcoholics, and those in early recovery have difficulties with communication- those that are active are listening to the addictive voice constantly, and those in early recovery are hopefully trying not to.

ZiggyB

You are not crazy and... I am sorry for what you are going through.

The scenario is very familiar to me... axbf got laid off from work, began drinking like a fool, back to being abusive, rude, obnoxious and totally unreliable. This is for sure gonna turn a woman, on, right? I think withdrawing and feeling shut down is perfectly normal when you don't feel very happy with the other person for whatever reason.

He even yelled at me "you don't even want to f*ck me anymore, do you?" Such a charming man. Anyway we weren't married so I didn't have much to lose by moving on.

Please don't feel horrible about yourself. The A. is excellent at laying guilt trips on other people, I know mine was... You are doing the best job you can, keep reminding yourself of that.

I agree marriage counseling would work but does he have a plan for extended sobriety? Does he think it's okay to be an abusive drunk whenever he wants and this will be fine? We all know it's difficult to be out of work but perhaps he could find some other ways of coping?

ForeverOptimist

Thank you all for your posts. We have been to MC before but last time stopped going because AH refused to talk about the drinking -- just wanted to talk about our other issues. Huh? The drinking is an issue. Maybe it isn't our only issue but we can't work on anything else until that is addressed. I've been going to individual therapy which has been good, but I'm always amazed that I can feel so good about myself, and the A's have a way of finding that one weakness to get you with.

So after last night the first thing he says to me is "Are you having an affair? You must be having an affair." I actually laughed out loud and said, "Really? You are so unwilling to look at yourself that the reason I don't want to be intimate must be because there is someone else???" After that I heard a lot about how men have needs, etc. and I stood my ground that I'm not going to do anything out of obligation and it won't happen until I can trust him again. Anyway, after that he did express that he is really trying and that he would like to start going to MC again. I don't have high expectations after the last time, but I figure it can't hurt. I know I'm at the point where I can be cautiously hopeful, but know also that he may still refuse to see drinking as a major problem. But he did acknowledge today that he knows he has triggers for drinking. That is a self awareness that I haven't seen before. But all remains to be seen. It is nice to hear but I know that gaining my trust means I need to see actions in place.

I just also want to say that I am not only grateful for all of you who care enough to post on SR, but so grateful for the technology that exists these days. Even 10 years ago I would have sat there last night and cried all night. Instead I was able to "cry out" here and receive some support in return. I know it makes me feel less alone -- I"m sure many of you feel the same way.

Live

You know what popped into my mind first?

I have a pretty superficial scratch from our pet Tom the cat. It hasn't completely healed in a week, I can still see it.

So if something so small and minor takes a couple of weeks, how much moreso the problems of alcoholism.

In this light I saw one week of sobriety as being almost insignificant.

How insane to expect you to heal in a week!

Besides, who hands out points for what is merely "normal". His drinking is abnormal, he quits..then he is moving to normal. And you are supposed to reward that?

What is your reward for not drinking alcoholically????eh? You don't expect one, do you?

TakingCharge999

ForeverOptimist,

You are not crazy.

Hugs,
Tc999

dandylion

Dear Forever, I was just thinking about the times that the actively using or recently dry alcoholic behaves with the sense of entitlement of "KING BABIES".

Kind of an arrested emotional maturity and a feeling of being the center of their own universe. "I want what I want, and I want it now. I want everything MY way, and, I want it NOW". Also, the slightest effort on their part should be rewarded with showers of praise and adulation.

I know that I have observed this kind of behavior. Many others on this forum have also posted about it.

Perhaps you have some of the impatient "KING BABY" going on in your household?
If so, it still noes not make it one bit excusable!! (in my opinion).

sincerely, dandylion