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For Parents Divorcing an A Won't Admit they have a Problem......



For Parents Divorcing an A Won't Admit they have a Problem......

Old 12-07-2012, 10:20 AM
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For Parents Divorcing an A Won't Admit they have a Problem......

So, I have been busy with court stuff recently. I went to the first day or trial this week. It feels so good to finally be really heard! I was having panic attacks for about a week leading up to it but feel so much better now.

So I am finally getting some real protections for my kids. They are going to continue to see their Dad (reminder, he is an A not admitting he has a problem, who happens to also be a police officer). He lost all his weekday visiting rights. I was able to show that he cancelled on at least one scheduled days a week. (Always Thursdays, I think that is the day he meets with his work buddy for drinks)

We are going to go slow and he will get to try a weekend overnight visist every other week for December and if he can do it without drinking he will get everyother weekend, Friday to Sunday afternoon. Get this though, they are requiring him to use a device called Soberlink. He will have to blow in a handheld device 3 (yeah three!) times a day to see if he has been drinking. It takes a picture of him and sends all the info to a monitoring service. I will get a text immediately if he has had anything to drink. It also has a GPS so I will know exactly where he is. They compile reports for the courts.

Yeah!!!! Hopefully this will help either have drink free visits for the boys or give me some real ammunition against him! This will make him furious because it is the same system parolees have to use. Haha!

Plus he cannot call or text my phone anymore. All contact has to be through email! This is huge for me!

I go to court today to sign it in as a court order. Hopefully he doesnt panic and not agree at the 11th hour. If he does, I think this will make him look really bad though.....

Finally, I think the boys and I may start to be able to move on to a more normal day to day life.....There is a light at the end of the tunnel. My advice, don't give up the fight, and document, document, document! I know this will not be the end for me but it is a huge step forward.

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Old 12-07-2012, 10:32 AM
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"This will make him furious because it is the same system parolees have to use."

I have to say, I really love the irony here LOL.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:11 AM
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Just got a call from my attorney. They are wanting me to do the breathalizer also! What! Do they make people who get hit by a drunk driver do the jail time also!

I told my attorney I want to fight it today but if push comes to shove that I will do it to avoid a trial and keep my kids safe. Just seems wrong they are even asking.......

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Old 12-07-2012, 11:22 AM
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It would look a lot better if you agreed, even though his lawyer is requesting it out of spite. What's more important to you? Winning an argument over this or your kids safety?
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:28 AM
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YAY! I can imagine what a huge leap forward this is for you!

I am in the midst of documenting like crazy, and although he only sees his children once a month (at best) I would love this sober link device. It would give me a bit if peace of mind.
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Old 12-07-2012, 11:35 AM
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DO NOT FIGHT THAT FOR CRYING OUT LOUD!

You have got to understand family court. If you ask for ANYTHING you should assume it is mutual. The difference is why the hell do you care? You are not going to fail the test so why the hell would you introduce the thought that you have anything to hide???

Family. Piet is not where you resolve feelings, that is therapy. Family court is where you get protection and it will always be mutual, if you ask for it then expect to be held to it and lose the pride and righteous indignation because it is not about you being insulted by having to do the same things a 'lesser' person who 'deserves it' had to do.

They want it mutual - say "you betcha, I'll do it as much as you like if that's what it takes to ensure that he had to remain sober around OUR babies"

Another hint - get off your high horse in court. If me saying that offends you then get over yourself - I'm trying to get your back up so that you will be pissed at ME instead of screwing yourself in court. Judges don't care about why you are pissed. If you sound sanctimonious they discount you. If you say "your honor, I am not here to badmouth my husband or embarass him, I just need to ensure that he stays sober with OUR children and I'm asking for your help". If you volunteer to undergo the same things you ask for it is almost a lock that you will get it, if you ask for him to be subjected to something but you are offended by the suggestion that you do the same the judge will think "vengeful bitch/*******" and not concerned patent.

Want to effectively attack him? Pull in the horns and start with "I believe he means well but I have some concerns". Instead of "listen to what this ******* did".

Judges have a HUGE criterium they rarely explain- they prefer to put the parent most likely to share and be respectful of the OTHER parent in charge. Your job is to appear reasonable and fair and willing to bend, it is not your job to be right and judges could give a damn about right.

Seriously, get off your high horse and lose the indignation and beg to do whatever you ask of him if you want to be taken seriously
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:28 PM
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Pohsfriend makes good points above. Now is the time to act with grace and dignity and be completely transparent.

I compare it to the saying "give them enough rope and they will hang themselves".
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:20 PM
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I totally understand what you guys are saying. And my initial reaction when asked was, "No problem." I want to keep my kids safe.

And I have already told my attorney to please try to get around it, but I will do it before I have to go to trial. The issue I have is that he is a total control freak. He has done this every step of the way. Any time I have change the dance with him, he has lashed out to try to get control again. Tons of counceling to get to this understanding....

But, would you ask a domestic violance victim to do jail time along side with their perpetrator just to get some protection?
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by 4MyBoys View Post
But, would you ask a domestic violance victim to do jail time along side with their perpetrator just to get some protection?
Absolutely not, I see your point. When I divorced M I had a pit bull on crack type of a lawyer. It was more effort to keep her reigned in than my STB ex wife and I'm not making that up. She wanted to file for this and motion for that.. it was exhausting not to mention expensive. Everything we asked for Ms lawyer asked for the exact same thing right back, no matter how ridiculous. It's a negotiations game billable at $350/hr. Sad to say, but it's a game.

M had been abusing prescription drugs for years and we asked for a transcript form the pharmacy, well they asked me for the same thing right back. We pulled M's perps as well and she had like 30 perps for ADs over 5 yrs and my transcript had like two perps for Antibiotics over the same period. Just stupid crap like that.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:26 PM
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Agree with Pohsfriend. In my experience, they also go to great lengths to vet the parent that the kids are most likely to go to, so they don't pull any punches. Be a good sport and do what they ask. Your STBXAH will fail. Hand him the rope to hang himself with.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:30 PM
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Patience and caution are critical in court. 15 years ago my crazy ex took my baby to another state and accused me of everything from molestation to abuse. I was in more pain than I could ever describe to you. Six weeks without holding my baby girl while her miter dumped her at grandmas and went out clubbing.

I wanted to drive to grannies, kick the door down, dismantle whatever was suicidal enough to get between us and take my daughter home after burning the house down on my way out. Angry? Try seething.

But a man is not allowed to be angry in a courtroom. The system is run by too many people who see men as the villain.

Six weeks of patient documentation and calmly luring crazy ex and her crazy mom into taped confessions and taunts, admissions of perjury and mockingly laughing about how I was the most devoted parent imaginable but if I did not cough up x amount of money and allow them primary custody they would claim I was a molester and I'd never see my baby again except through a window.

By the time I risked giving the other state a valid claim by appearing and winning a return to my home state I was living in a dark house - lawyer wanted money and so did the electric company but candles are fine for studying the family code by.

By the time it got home I was pro-se. Mom and three of her witnesses wound up facing contempt and/or perjury charges, their rent a shrink lost her license and my baby came home and never left again.

At that point my boot was on moms throat in the legal battle and my friends never understood why I didn't lean into it and let her get what she deserved, why I never pursued the unpaid child support etcetera.

Simple - I wanted her to use her money to keep a nicer place, I wanted her to know that if she deviated from my daughters best interests even once then all 200 pounds would be in that foot. Controlling? Manipulative? Ok - I can live with that.

My daughter is fine though and nothing else was relevant. This is chess not checkers so be strategic ad think ahead
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:54 PM
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I just contacted my attorney and told her that my kids safety was my biggest concern. So I was willing to do it just the same as my STBXAH. Every other weekend. Same as him. That, as the person never accused of having a drinking problem before today, (six months into this) I should not have to take it to work or be tested 26 days a month, when he will only be tested four days a month.

The hearing was supposed to be him trying to show the court he can do longer visits after having all visitation taken away for a month and then only suppervised for a couple months. He now has only a couple hours a week and never overnights. This hearing was to get him longer more meaningful visits. He is supposed to be proving himself to the court.

I am just mad, that this somehow got turned around on me. I have been abused by this man for years, my kids have been hurt, it is bullsh!t.
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Old 12-07-2012, 01:56 PM
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Pohsfriend,

If you ever need backup, I got your back......Wait can you get my back?

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Old 12-07-2012, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 4MyBoys View Post
I am just mad, that this somehow got turned around on me. I have been abused by this man for years, my kids have been hurt, it is bullsh!t.
Of course you are. Of COURSE you are! From an outsider's perspective, I don't interpret this as an accusation or personal attack as much as a legal gambit that is very likely common practice. It is sending a message that anything you ask of him probably will be asked of you. Since you have nothing to be ashamed of, it does not have to be of any consequence. And ultimately it will either make him look bad (and you look stellar) or make him comply, both of which are in your best interests.

All that being said, it makes my stomach crawl and I am seriously PO'd you are asked to do this. Deep breaths and big sighs. You are doing great.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:38 PM
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What if her cop husband was driving under the influence ... would she also be precluded from driving the kids around to their activities, merely because she asked the judge that he be precluded from doing so by a protective order?

In general, PohsFriend makes a valid point. However, judges ought to make an exception to that kind of thinking whenever there is a risk of exposing the kids to proven active alcoholism/addiction by a spouse and, certainly, by that spouse's cohorts (who have no parenting rights).

Isn't the ultimate test "in the best interests of the children" after all?

In the criminal system, judges often throw the book at alcoholics/addicts whose disease contributed to their crimes. Those judges don't hesitate to throw the book at child molesters and abusers. All* in the sake of protecting the public and especially children. And rightfully so. * (Getting votes and publicity also factors in for some of those judges). In the probation system, the criminals are right back in jail if they fail a drug and alcohol test.

Simply because one addict/alcoholic parent happens to be in divorce court with a clean parent doesn't mean this is a matter of mere he said/she said. Proof. DUI's, repeated relapses, rehabs, not following treatment/recovery program, accidents, etc.

Nor is the clean parent being sanctimonious or less respectful by asking for protection for the kids. We spouses of alcoholics/addicts with kids have been through hell. If any judge has lived it, he or she would know. If the judge grew up to be an adult child of alcoholics/addicts, he or she would know.

If the judge forces her to submit merely to make it mutual, she's going to do that because (and demonstrating that) her "best interests" are in the kids. But she shouldn't have to. She shouldn't be humiliated or affected at work. It shouldn't be tit for tat when the issue affecting the matter at hand in family court IS the alcoholism/addiction.

Haven't we learned that an anti-drug/alcohol stance and example by parents (peers, schools and community too) is critical in raising non-addict/alcoholic kids? Yet, it's more important for family court judges to be "fair" to each parent than to protect the kids? The parents won't be in each others' hair that long. The kids will be affected for life by their upbringing.

We need a paradigm shift in family court. Reform the family law system when it comes to parental alcoholism/addiction. That would protect the kids AND send another message to the alcoholics/addicts about what they have to lose. IMHO.
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:23 PM
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4MyBoys,
I for one call Bulls$#@!!!!!!
This is unbelievable and I think it is really just a way for him to continue his abuse of you. And his lawyer is going right along with it. It's ridiculously childish. I am angry about it.
But I understand the concept of protecting your kids over being "right."
I'm just wondering - is this part of mediation or is the judge ordering this? Maybe this is an interim order about visitation? It seems to me a judge would want some sort of real sense that alcohol is a problem for you before he/she would order this.
On the bright side, there have been steps forward with regard to recognizing his problem and adjusting the visitation accordingly.
Hang in there 4MyBoys - you are doing great and I'm pulling for you.
Hugs
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Old 12-07-2012, 03:33 PM
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4MyBoys,
I for one call Bulls$#@!!!!!!
This is unbelievable and I think it is really just a way for him to continue his abuse of you. And his lawyer is going right along with it. It's ridiculously childish. I am angry about it.
But I understand the concept of protecting your kids over being "right."
Yes. That.

Part of my divorce agreement was similar. His attorney came back and demanded I make the same concessions I had requested he make. And I was furious. I didn't drink. I didn't drive drunk. I hadn't physically threatened him. I hadn't kicked in his front door.

And my attorney gave me the same advice Pohsfriend did: Just go with it, and tell them "since I have no problems in these areas, it is no sacrifice for me to agree to these terms; my only concern is safety."

So question -- what will happen if he fails one of these tests?
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Old 12-08-2012, 01:00 AM
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My lawyer tried to prepare me for the same thing: if we ask for testing, you'll probably have to do the same. I felt, and still do, the same indignation, disbelief, almost a sense of betrayal. I am NOT the one with a problem. I hadn't had a drink in years, because just the sound of a bottle opening made me nauseous and scared. I wasn't the one stumbling back to the bedroom to berate, intimidate, torture his wife... And then the realization set in that I had and have nothing to hide. (Stilllllll.... *sigh*)

The only additional advice I have would be these 2 pieces:

Tell the cold, hard truth. Hide nothing. Even if it doesn't paint you in the most flattering light. And,

When dealing with an abusive partner, do not sugar coat anything when asked to explain why you felt you and the children were/are in danger. Do not use euphemisms; the court will most likely do that for the transcript any way. Do not minimize. Lay it out, flat, unquestioned, factual. Doing so is not getting on a high horse; it is not trying to denigrate the STX partner. It is giving the courts all the details they need in order to weigh the case.

I struggled with letting go of my need to protect my AXH, which he had ingrained in me over the years. That habit made presenting why DS and I both needed some level of protection from AXH very difficult.
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Old 12-10-2012, 01:00 PM
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Ok, so I had court on Friday.

I thought I would give the outcome of my day in court. So my attorney was being pretty wishy washy about the whole thing. I let her know that I really wanted to fight it on principal but that if it came down to going to full trial that I would happily do the daily tests.

My STBXAH and his attorney were both present via phone call. Which was kind of nice because the judge and the recorder were both free to make faces at some of the items brought up.

Anyway my husband's attorney actually had the balls to tell the judge that my husband had found me passed out on multiple occassions during our marriage. And that is why he wanted me to do the testing. That hurt because it was an outright lie. My attorney was quick to point out that in the six months we have been going to court, it was not brought up once.

The judge said she thought that it was insane because in her words, I had primary custoday and shouldn't I be able to have one glass of wine in the evening during the month? Heehee!

Anyway, I told the judge that I have not been drinking since the divorce started and said I would be happy to do the tests on the weekends I had the boys in order to get him to agree to it. Everyone agreed.

Get this though! Ha! The judge decided that if my STBXAH breaths point anything he gets a secondary blow within 30 minutes. If it is positive, I am to be notified by SoberLink, and I get to pick up the kids with the sherriffs office and we all come back to court.

If I blow positive on my weekend with the boys, it has to be .08 or above. He does not get to pick up the kids, (it would be a weekend off of testing for him and they don't want a drinking parent picking up the kids.) he can call the police and have them come to the house for a child welfare check, not take the kids. And we would discuss it at our next court date at the end of February.

I think they wanted him to agree to it without going through a trial but put all the other conditions on it to show him it is assinine.

As I keep getting told by people who have been through child custody hearings recently, ask for more than you want so that you can conceed some items. And who knows you might get it. I think as the partner of an A, I have learned that I have to back down to avoid the next fight, just to survive some days. It becomes what we know and what we are comfortable with. I'll tell you, it feels good to ask for what you want, stick to your guns and get it. I am all done with being bullied.

Fight for what it right and fair for your kids to keep them safe. Maybe they will get to see some of the man I married during A free visits......

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Old 12-10-2012, 06:49 PM
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My AH and I were going to divorce, but we've reconciled.

However, his atty had asked/demanded the same things that I demanded. I was fine with that since I had nothing to hide.

For instance, my AH was supposed to answer questions about whether he had wrongly taken other people's pain Rxs without their permission. AH knew that I had proof of that he had done so (including photos of the Rx bottles) and the sworn testimony of the people he had taken the Rxs from. While I was asked the same question, my AH knew that I wasn't guilty of doing the same and therefore he had no proof of anything. He didn't want to be exposed (because of his job), so he folded like a "cheap tent".

If you're innocent, then you have nothing to be afraid of. I had photos, texts, testimonies, recorded phone calls, etc. I had hard evidence and AH knew it. I played hardball and that shocked him.


In the end, MY DEMANDS were too much for my AH to take and he cried, "uncle". He knew that I had proof of his infractions, while I had no infractions to be exposed.
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