Guess what I came home to?
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Guess what I came home to?
My AXBF left us a bag of gifts...a collection really of our favorite snacks, a Christmas card and a letter for me. The letter was probebly the most thoughtful, introspective letter he's ever written me, the gifts were incredibly thoughtful. What was my first thought when I finished reading? Too little too late buddy...where was this the past 3 years? What happened to my year? What is he trying to achieve with this...to get me back?
He hits his 1 month sober tomorrow, and i'm proud of him for that...but he's got a lot of work to do before he can even TRY to get me back. The actions I need to see involve more than a gift bag in my door.
He hits his 1 month sober tomorrow, and i'm proud of him for that...but he's got a lot of work to do before he can even TRY to get me back. The actions I need to see involve more than a gift bag in my door.
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Originally Posted by Titanic 
Maybe a year from now? Are you going to Al-Anon or working another recovery program in the meantime?
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I think its wonderful. i know i know where was it 3 years ago right? he was taken hold by addiction...that is where he was. NOW he is sober, "normal" right minded healthy minded and he did something he probably would have done 3 years ago had he not been drinking.
so i mahappy to hear this post....happy because he an addict is clean and sober and because he no matter what happened or not is making amends and reaching out in a normal non alchy way.
so i mahappy to hear this post....happy because he an addict is clean and sober and because he no matter what happened or not is making amends and reaching out in a normal non alchy way.
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Good afternoon Loveblossom79,
I'm right there with you, where was all that 3 years ago? I always hated that part of being with my ex. We were on and off 3-4 times in 3 years and whenever he won me back, the effort stopped, but whenever I kicked him to the curb, he was always so thoughtful. Each speech became more and more passionate. What started with simply I love you became you are my life blah blah blah. Glad you are hanging strong with keeping distance from him and recognizing that this could be another manipulation tactic to win you back. While being sober one month is no easy feat, my ex relapsed after six months of sobriety so I would be cautious just like you are being. Great for you! Stay strong!
I'm right there with you, where was all that 3 years ago? I always hated that part of being with my ex. We were on and off 3-4 times in 3 years and whenever he won me back, the effort stopped, but whenever I kicked him to the curb, he was always so thoughtful. Each speech became more and more passionate. What started with simply I love you became you are my life blah blah blah. Glad you are hanging strong with keeping distance from him and recognizing that this could be another manipulation tactic to win you back. While being sober one month is no easy feat, my ex relapsed after six months of sobriety so I would be cautious just like you are being. Great for you! Stay strong!
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This is an all too familiar scenario for me... yes it could very well be manipulation. In the case of axbf, good behavior would only last for a couple of months before he started doing crappy things all over again. If he left me a gift now, I would probably throw it in the garbage.
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Hmmmm....
So take a step back for a second and think about this. Its entirely reasonable and quite sensible to withhold your forgiveness.
However, while his gesture doesn't change anything that happened he did all that he could do at this time to make it right. Take yourself out ofthe picture for a second and put yourself in his shoes. The things he did while drunk he is certainly accountable for but not not entirely responsible for, he did not choose to be an alcoholic and when he was drinking he was incapable of rational thought.
This, he did choose. With a clearer head and the ability to make decisions he did something great. If you withhold your appreciation until the 'debt is paid' then it is all but certain that it never will be, he will quit.
We need to remember that it's easy to feel and act superior to our alcoholic. It is easy to judge and resent and feel justly entitled to balance the scales but that is just foolhardy.
An alcoholic who is thirty days sober is just starting to deal with the world and their emotions without that shield. On top of the wounds that led them to the bottle they are dealing with the guilt and shame we can't imagine.
So I think we need to realize that we have a choice and WE are accountable for our actions. No matter what they've done, if we decide to stick around then we are obliged to own our decision and give them a chance. Telling someone that their best effort doesn't matter is telling them not to try. Honestly, that's just cruel and selfish and it is counter to your goals unless your goal is revenge. If our goal is revenge then we are worse than the addict who did awful things that were counter to their real feelings.
We can bask in the smug knowledge that we are right or we can look at the alcoholic and say 'but for the grace of God, there go I'
I have to let go of the things my wife did when the alcohol was in control and let her be on equal footing every day. Being the f---up alongside the 'good person' would drive anyone to despair and depression and the bottle.
It's entirely valid to decide you are done with a person but until you do you have a responsibility to accept attempts to make amends with an open heart and be appreciative and grateful. Otherwise we are torturing an already hurting soul. Our beloved alcoholic may have done some horrific things when under the control of the booze and incapable of making the right choices. If we presume to be sane and decent then we have no good excuse for meeting attempts at remorse with derision and scorn. If all we have for that person is scorn then we are obliged to break all contact or else we are likely to keep them from getting better.
Not calling any one poster out here but more of a general message to all. Many here have ample reason to feel angry but we all need to take a breath before damning an alcoholic who does the right thing. Meet kind with kind and enforce your boundaries when they don't do the right thing but don't kick someone in the teeth when they try or they won't try.
Being right was hollow and empty, I'm going for happy and whole
So take a step back for a second and think about this. Its entirely reasonable and quite sensible to withhold your forgiveness.
However, while his gesture doesn't change anything that happened he did all that he could do at this time to make it right. Take yourself out ofthe picture for a second and put yourself in his shoes. The things he did while drunk he is certainly accountable for but not not entirely responsible for, he did not choose to be an alcoholic and when he was drinking he was incapable of rational thought.
This, he did choose. With a clearer head and the ability to make decisions he did something great. If you withhold your appreciation until the 'debt is paid' then it is all but certain that it never will be, he will quit.
We need to remember that it's easy to feel and act superior to our alcoholic. It is easy to judge and resent and feel justly entitled to balance the scales but that is just foolhardy.
An alcoholic who is thirty days sober is just starting to deal with the world and their emotions without that shield. On top of the wounds that led them to the bottle they are dealing with the guilt and shame we can't imagine.
So I think we need to realize that we have a choice and WE are accountable for our actions. No matter what they've done, if we decide to stick around then we are obliged to own our decision and give them a chance. Telling someone that their best effort doesn't matter is telling them not to try. Honestly, that's just cruel and selfish and it is counter to your goals unless your goal is revenge. If our goal is revenge then we are worse than the addict who did awful things that were counter to their real feelings.
We can bask in the smug knowledge that we are right or we can look at the alcoholic and say 'but for the grace of God, there go I'
I have to let go of the things my wife did when the alcohol was in control and let her be on equal footing every day. Being the f---up alongside the 'good person' would drive anyone to despair and depression and the bottle.
It's entirely valid to decide you are done with a person but until you do you have a responsibility to accept attempts to make amends with an open heart and be appreciative and grateful. Otherwise we are torturing an already hurting soul. Our beloved alcoholic may have done some horrific things when under the control of the booze and incapable of making the right choices. If we presume to be sane and decent then we have no good excuse for meeting attempts at remorse with derision and scorn. If all we have for that person is scorn then we are obliged to break all contact or else we are likely to keep them from getting better.
Not calling any one poster out here but more of a general message to all. Many here have ample reason to feel angry but we all need to take a breath before damning an alcoholic who does the right thing. Meet kind with kind and enforce your boundaries when they don't do the right thing but don't kick someone in the teeth when they try or they won't try.
Being right was hollow and empty, I'm going for happy and whole
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CONGRATS to this man, a year sober is a beautiful accomplish, as is reaching out with kindness! So wonderful to see that success. He's more than likely saving his life and it's a brutal struggle. In the predicament, I may not want to go back I hope I can lend at least my support, my encouragement.
POH - I really like this sentence > No matter what they've done, if we decide to stick around then we are obliged to own our decision and give them a chance. Telling someone that their best effort doesn't matter is telling them not to try.
Living in pain from someone's addiction is so hard and healing is understanding, but I know I've needed to look at my need to be "right" is a waste of life. Been there . . .
POH - I really like this sentence > No matter what they've done, if we decide to stick around then we are obliged to own our decision and give them a chance. Telling someone that their best effort doesn't matter is telling them not to try.
Living in pain from someone's addiction is so hard and healing is understanding, but I know I've needed to look at my need to be "right" is a waste of life. Been there . . .
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend
Not calling any one poster out here but more of a general message to all. Many here have ample reason to feel angry but we all need to take a breath before damning an alcoholic who does the right thing. Meet kind with kind and enforce your boundaries when they don't do the right thing but don't kick someone in the teeth when they try or they won't try.
Being right was hollow and empty, I'm going for happy and whole
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Originally Posted by ZiggyB
This is a very nice sentiment, but for myself I can say after spending 5 months and thousands of dollars in psychotherapy trying to get over the verbal abuse and damage done to my self-esteem I would have no intention of letting my ex anywhere near me even if he did quit drinking. I do forgive him and I know it isn't his fault for being an alcoholic but he will never be a part of my life. Sometimes too much damage has been done to the other person and it has nothing to do with being "right."
Now if you are done and nothing can change your mind but you allowed someone to keep trying and did not tell them it was futile while they grovel that would be pure evil because it would be intentionally inflicting pain.
Me? I promised to keep fighting for my wife as long as she keeps fighting to get well. If she quit fighting for herself I would walk away. If she got better later and tried to patch things I would either agree to try or tell her there was no chance but I would not let her beat her head against a wall of futility.
Whatever any of us endures is partly out responsibility. Are you to blame for what someone else did? No. ...but if my wife fails and can't beat this thing and it causes me pain and sorrow then I can't plead ignorance, I weighed the risks and the potential good and I made a choice to take this on with her so I have no business whinIng if there are excruciatingly painful bumps in the road. I am crushed when we have a setback but I have to look at things objectively and acknowledge that she has come MILES from where she was a year ago and has made tremendous progress. I have faults too, I have not become perfect over the last year and need to remember that expecting her to flip a switch and never look back is not reasonable. I'm not saying I didn't lose my mind when the unthinkable happened - I did. I'm saying that I took a step back and praised the progress, forgave the failures and am doing my best to help her regain her self confidence and self respect by pointing out the good.
Make sense? I would never blame or criticize anyone for calling it quits. I may be forced to call it quits one day but until then my decision to keep fighting carries an obligation to forgive and move forward and appreciate progress without expecting perfection.
I love my wife. She has come a million miles this year and her journey is far from complete. I chose to walk alongside her and carry whatever portion of te load that I can.
I guess the cliff notes version is that nobody is obliged to stay on te roller coaster but once we climb in and buckle up we can't pretend that we thought it was the teacups - the seatbelt isn't there just for show. I need to own my decision and that means I need to make 'winning' possible for her.
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Originally Posted by PohsFriend
That's being done and there is nothing wrong with being done. If you tell someone you are done with them and they try to change your mind it's their problem. I'm talking about those of us who are NOT done - we have an obligation to own our decision and deal in the present.
Now if you are done and nothing can change your mind but you allowed someone to keep trying and did not tell them it was futile while they grovel that would be pure evil because it would be intentionally inflicting pain.
Me? I promised to keep fighting for my wife as long as she keeps fighting to get well. If she quit fighting for herself I would walk away. If she got better later and tried to patch things I would either agree to try or tell her there was no chance but I would not let her beat her head against a wall of futility.
Now if you are done and nothing can change your mind but you allowed someone to keep trying and did not tell them it was futile while they grovel that would be pure evil because it would be intentionally inflicting pain.
Me? I promised to keep fighting for my wife as long as she keeps fighting to get well. If she quit fighting for herself I would walk away. If she got better later and tried to patch things I would either agree to try or tell her there was no chance but I would not let her beat her head against a wall of futility.
As for me I am done with this conversation but it has been very nice chatting with you and I wish you lots of luck!
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Originally Posted by ZiggyB
Poh's Friend, I know how you feel about your wife but this post isn't about you, it's about someone whose ex boyfriend has been sober for 30 days and left a gift on her doorstep. They're not even in a relationship anymore... lol. I could be wrong but I assumed they were done and she has no obligation to give him the time of day at this point.
As for me I am done with this conversation but it has been very nice chatting with you and I wish you lots of luck!
As for me I am done with this conversation but it has been very nice chatting with you and I wish you lots of luck!
It's about this being a hard and painful process for all involved.
My point is not that the OP should run to his arms and forgive him, my point is that an alcoholic who has made innumerable mistakes in the past has managed to say no to drinking for thirty days and took the time to do something thoughtful for people he had hurt.
Sometimes that sort of event provokes comments around here like "he just wants sex" or "it doesn't matter what he's doing, it can never make up for the past" or "he's just lying".
Instead, is it so wrong to suggest that we simply stop at "an alcoholic entered recovery, has thirty days in and is trying to make amends and that is something that every friend or family member of an alcoholic can be thankful for".
Friends and family. Not enemies of. When something good happens I tend to be too hopeful and thus am too disappointed when the pendulum swings. Some people advise "that's great and I hope it continues but don't be too upset if there are setbacks". That's supportive. "it doesn't matter what she said or did because she is an alcoholic and they are all the same (as mine) so reject the good" is less so.
A healthy dose of reality is a good thing, if we get to the point where we can't appreciate the good things and take some comfort in them then why get out of bed in the morning?
Three years ago I was told I had 3-6 months to get my affairs in order and when the oncologist scratched his head and said they got it all he laughed and said he shouldn't be too surprised - I was too hard headed to die.
So maybe I'm annoyingly optimistic. I get why they call today 'the present' and I unwrap it like a kid diving into the pile on Christmas morning. I am unabashedly and annoyingly optimistic and stubborn and it's working for me.
I'm sad that you were hurt so badly Zig - I mean that. I'm glad that you are away from it now and working toward finding your smile again and I hope next time I make you laugh a bit. Take good care my friend. Take what you like, leave the rest as always. For me the bad days would be insufferable if I ignored the good days or allowed fear of the future keep me from enjoying today.
Tomorrow may suck - I will build up the smiles as they come along for those rainy days.
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Pohs Friend, I'd follow President Reagan's policy here: trust but verify.
Sober one month and making gestures such as a present is nice, but I wouldn't believe it is real until I'd seen a good long positive stretch of sobriety, recovery, working the program, a year, 3 years, whatever it takes.
I've seen my STBXAH use every tactic in the book. Over time I learned not to believe any of them, and in my case, nothing good came of his attempts to frame my experience of his behavior.
Reminds me of when one of my kids was just about three years old. This child was - and grew up to be -precociously cognizant of other people's emotions and how to move them to various feelings. This child, good for them, grew up to be a honorable person and does not manipulate people. Translated this capacity into lots of leads on the stage.
However, at 3, when the cunning was not yet underground, this child told my father, when they wanted something from me, "Granpa, I have all sorts of faces. This is my happy face. This is my sad face. This is my mad face." And used those faces to get what they wanted.
It is all too easy to be fooled.
This is a nice gesture for early sobriety, and it gives some modest amount of hope. But it doesn't change anything. All it does it confirm the current intent of the alcoholic. Unless, that is, it is just more manipulation.
Trust but verify.
The alcoholic needs to be able to commit to their path of recovery without help from anyone else and in the face of great obstacles. How the other harmed parties respond or don't respond cannot be a motivator or a de-motivator in their behavior or they will never make it.
ShootingStar1
Sober one month and making gestures such as a present is nice, but I wouldn't believe it is real until I'd seen a good long positive stretch of sobriety, recovery, working the program, a year, 3 years, whatever it takes.
I've seen my STBXAH use every tactic in the book. Over time I learned not to believe any of them, and in my case, nothing good came of his attempts to frame my experience of his behavior.
Reminds me of when one of my kids was just about three years old. This child was - and grew up to be -precociously cognizant of other people's emotions and how to move them to various feelings. This child, good for them, grew up to be a honorable person and does not manipulate people. Translated this capacity into lots of leads on the stage.
However, at 3, when the cunning was not yet underground, this child told my father, when they wanted something from me, "Granpa, I have all sorts of faces. This is my happy face. This is my sad face. This is my mad face." And used those faces to get what they wanted.
It is all too easy to be fooled.
This is a nice gesture for early sobriety, and it gives some modest amount of hope. But it doesn't change anything. All it does it confirm the current intent of the alcoholic. Unless, that is, it is just more manipulation.
Trust but verify.
The alcoholic needs to be able to commit to their path of recovery without help from anyone else and in the face of great obstacles. How the other harmed parties respond or don't respond cannot be a motivator or a de-motivator in their behavior or they will never make it.
ShootingStar1
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A couple of things to think about while we wait:
Yesterday was December 6th. He left the gift bag with a card and a letter. A Christmas card.
Today, December 7th, was his 30th day sober. He's in all likelihood going to get his first month chip at the inpatient facility's "AA" meeting with his inside group/cd counselor. What will he talk about?
December 8
December 9
December 10
December 11
December 12
December 13
December 14
December 15
December 16
December 17
December 18
December 19
December 20
December 21
December 22
December 23
December 24
Christmas.
Yesterday was December 6th. He left the gift bag with a card and a letter. A Christmas card.
Today, December 7th, was his 30th day sober. He's in all likelihood going to get his first month chip at the inpatient facility's "AA" meeting with his inside group/cd counselor. What will he talk about?
December 8
December 9
December 10
December 11
December 12
December 13
December 14
December 15
December 16
December 17
December 18
December 19
December 20
December 21
December 22
December 23
December 24
Christmas.
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He's not in an inpatient program, he was originally supposed to be, but decided not to go. I spoke with him today and he's doing well, stated that he doesn't even feel the desire to drink, that he has felt it during the past month, but that it's always accompanied by the memories of what it's done to his life, and then he isn't tempted. He's taking the money that he's been saving from NOT buying alcohol and started a 401K (this is a man that never thought of the future at all). He told me that he found an AA meeting near his house that meets on Mondays, and he's planning on going, he's also trying a new church this Sunday.
PohsFriend, I took your advice to heart...I do think he needs my support and I really did appreciate the thought behind his gift. He said it meant alot to him that I remembered today was his 30 days and that I liked the gifts. He said he just had alot that he wanted to say to me, and that was how he said it (it was a long letter with the gifts)...he's holding alot of guilt and shame for his addiction and what it's done to us. He told me today that he understands now how we got to this point and that he's just trying to take this a day at a time (I told him I am too) and how grateful he is that we are even talking.
I don't know if his sobriety will hold (he was sober 6 mo the last time before the relapse from hell...but it was different because it wasn't his choice and he resented me for making him go to rehab, I got to know "dry drunk" really well), but i'm seeing alot of positive changes in him that I never would have thought possible before. New part-time job, no soda and ice anymore (just drinking water now), planning for retirement. Looking back on him a year ago and today is like 2 different people...he's come a long way. I'm sticking by my year decision with him, but at the same time I really am enjoying becoming friends again...I missed my friend.
PohsFriend, I took your advice to heart...I do think he needs my support and I really did appreciate the thought behind his gift. He said it meant alot to him that I remembered today was his 30 days and that I liked the gifts. He said he just had alot that he wanted to say to me, and that was how he said it (it was a long letter with the gifts)...he's holding alot of guilt and shame for his addiction and what it's done to us. He told me today that he understands now how we got to this point and that he's just trying to take this a day at a time (I told him I am too) and how grateful he is that we are even talking.
I don't know if his sobriety will hold (he was sober 6 mo the last time before the relapse from hell...but it was different because it wasn't his choice and he resented me for making him go to rehab, I got to know "dry drunk" really well), but i'm seeing alot of positive changes in him that I never would have thought possible before. New part-time job, no soda and ice anymore (just drinking water now), planning for retirement. Looking back on him a year ago and today is like 2 different people...he's come a long way. I'm sticking by my year decision with him, but at the same time I really am enjoying becoming friends again...I missed my friend.
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I'm happy for you - both. I am all for trust but verify and like all of us I need to work on not letting the inevitable bad days bite my ass like they do.
The worry and uncertainty sometimes can suck the joy right out of good days. I've allowed it to wreck entire weeks and drive me to distraction and I missed out on some food stuff as a result.
Tomorrow? Hell if I know :-). Today was a good day, he's made progress and it sounds like you accepted it for what it was and let yourself enjoy it. Whatever happens next, I'm glad he wrote down some of what you needed to hear and that you know he's doing better for now. Sounds like a good day to me - hope you sleep a little more peacefully and wake a little happier as a result.
The worry and uncertainty sometimes can suck the joy right out of good days. I've allowed it to wreck entire weeks and drive me to distraction and I missed out on some food stuff as a result.
Tomorrow? Hell if I know :-). Today was a good day, he's made progress and it sounds like you accepted it for what it was and let yourself enjoy it. Whatever happens next, I'm glad he wrote down some of what you needed to hear and that you know he's doing better for now. Sounds like a good day to me - hope you sleep a little more peacefully and wake a little happier as a result.
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