Titanic

"The physician can then refer the family to a family therapist with skills in addiction or to an interventionist who may help the family to engage their addicted member and the whole family in treatment and recovery (36,37,48-52).

It should be noted that the traditional approach often mentioned by members of Alcoholics Anonymous, Narcotics Anonymous, and Al-Anon of waiting until the addicted person hits rock bottom before accepting treatment and beginning recovery is suboptimal for several reasons: 1) hitting rock bottom can be very damaging to self and others or, in the worst case, fatal; family is the first to notice the addiction because of all the trouble it causes for the family; 2) it may take a very long time for the individual with addiction disorder to lose enough to accept treatment, successfully complete treatment, and remain sober; 3) significant others may have given up on this person by the time stable and lasting recovery is established; 4) losses that accumulate to eventually motivate engagement in recovery also diminish the resources that person has apply to recovery; 5) family members who give up on the addicted person often do not address their own issues before or after the addicted person does recover; and 6) resentments or termination of relationships may interfere with willingness to volunteer for family treatment when the addicted person engages in recovery." Principles of Addiction Medicine, Fourth Edition (2009 American Society of Addiction Medicine), page 862 (numbers in parentheses are the footnote numbers).

Seren

Well, I agree that it would be better than 'suboptimal' if someone who struggles with addiction would decide to enter treatment prior to losing everything--job, home, family, health, life.

My experience with the addicts and alcoholics in my life and with Al-Anon has not been one of 'waiting' for the addict to hit bottom before 'accepting' treatment. I have been involved in and watched others in my family offer help, encourage recovery, offer assurances of love once we realized a family member was struggling with alcohol--only to be ridiculed, mocked, and treated with utter contempt and disrespect by the alcoholic.

This reading also seems to suggest that all one has to do is bring up someone's drinking to them, either indivdually or in some sort of guided group setting, and the person will immediately enter treatment and be healed. This, in my experience and in the experiences I have read here, is not something that happens very often.

It also assumes that Al-Anon teaches its members to not ever try to talk to a loved one about their drinking, and that is also not at all my experience. The assumption that Al-Anon = Do Not Encourage Recovery is not at all true in my experience.

Just my 0.02.
Peace in the valley, HG

Titanic

Well put, hydrogirl!

As for the "suggestion" issue, the text does not suggest that, and its context is that a crisis, last straw or intervention is often what gets them to approach some form of treatment or addiction care.

Seren

Hmmmm....like a consequence or dare I say 'bottom'? Because to my way of thinking--that's all that a 'bottom' is. It is a consequence of one's own actions because of or while drinking.

onlythetruth

I think the term "rock bottom" is itself the problem. The term suggests that the addicted person must experience something abysmal in order to get better and my experience is that many addicted people take this to mean that they literally can't or shouldn't quit their addiction until something sufficiently awful has happened.

I have watched many people die, chasing the idea of "rock bottom"...and lots of newbies on the forums come in swirling for a long time thinking they aren't bad enough to get better. (Add to that the idea of the "real alcoholic"...and it's the perfect storm.)

I think this is a terrible shame and completely unnecessary. I wish the term could simply be deleted from the lexicon of recovery.

choublak

This.

And so many enter the newcomers forums creating topics about why haven't they hit their bottom yet and when will they hit their bottom.

On the flip side, there are also those who haven't necessarily "hit bottom" but have decided they don't want to live the way they've been living, anymore.

Tuffgirl

Peacegirl

Onlythetruth, I'm with you. When I hear people say "they haven't hit rock bottom yet", it gets me. Maybe this is necessary for some but I can't help but think if someone seeks recovery before they hit 'bottom', that's less of a climb to the top they will have!

Seren

I wish more alcoholics would decide to seek treatment before they lose everything or nearly everything. Unfortunately, I have seen so many who just never decide to give up drinking. I just don't think that calling it a 'bottom' is going to cause someone to continue to drink because they don't think they are 'bad enough' yet. Frankly, it seems to me to be another excuse to continue drinking. No matter how many times my husband tried to get his son to go into some sort of treatment program--any treatment program, he always had some excuse or another.

I'm pleased and happy to say that my stepson recently finished 30 days in a rehab facility and is now in a sober living environment looking for a job. He finally asked for this on his own after years of efforts to get him to do so before.

He has lost jobs, apartments, job opportunities, educational opportunities, and his liver is pretty much one drink away from permanent damage. We hope and pray that this time recovery will 'stick' for him. We don't know exactly what made him decide to do so this time, but we know that we had nothing to do with that decision because we certainly never had to power to get him to enter treatment before.

NYCDoglvr

Back in the 1930's when Bill Wilson wrote the Big Book, there was the belief that nobody would get sober until they hit rock bottom. I know people who got sober when they almost died and plenty of others who just realized their life was on a bad course and the problem was drinking. Or, their marriage was in jeopardy so they got sober. There are no hard and fast rules. Each person, each situation, is different.

onlythetruth

Come visit us on the newbie forums. There's a consistent stream of people writing in who are having this exact issue. Knowing that they are in trouble, but telling themselves, "it's not bad enough yet...I haven't hit rock bottom."

Is this a form of denial? Probably so, yes. But it's a form of denial that is perpetuated by the language we use....language we don't NEED to use.

It would really be so much more helpful to speak in positive terms. For myself, the moment of decision and the start of my recovery occurred when I came to understand that my drinking was extracting a price I was no longer willing to pay. At that point the balance shifted, and I wanted to get better more than I wanted to continue to drink. It was not "hitting bottom", it was "waking up".

I am glad I did not really know about the concept of hitting bottom at that point. It might well have driven me back into the arms of my addiction. After all, I still had a house, a car, a family and some money in the bank.

dandylion

W0W. Thought provoking discussion. All that I can offer is my opinion based on my experiences with this life-destroying disease.

I read the experiences of the suffering friends and family on this forum as their loved ones spiral downward in self-destruction and destroying those they touch on the way. These friends and families describe doing every action possible in order to implore the alcoholic to reach for sobriety. I don't really hear anyone waiting PASSIVELY until the "bottom" is reached. They may "wait", but , it is while hurting, praying, or trying to detach enough to prevent more damage to themselves or their children.

If using the term "rock bottom" is a problem or THE problem---I say: H***, then, lets call it "Arriving at the Light"----meaning the point when one finally comes out of denial and connects alcohol to the unraveling of his/her life and chooses sobriety as the alternative.

I will try anything that will help.

sincerely, dandylion

PaperDolls

Great thread.

I hit MY bottom.....to me, "rock" bottom is death.

onlythetruth

And helping is what we're all after, of course. There are so many ways to express the thing we're all really trying to say.....

Arriving at the light.

Waking up.

Tilting the balance.

Shade going up.

Blinders coming off.

There's lots of ways to express the concept without suggesting that a catastrophe has to be part of the picture.

Seren

I actually read all of the forums here, with the exception of the Men's forum.

Titanic

Whatever term any individual alcoholic/addict honestly wishes to call that which triggered in him or her the "desire to be sober" is all good with me.

onlythetruth

Then you've clearly seen what I mean....not to beat a dead horse, but it's definitely an issue!

Certainly people should refer to their OWN experience in whatever terms they want, but the continual insistence that we must all "hit rock bottom" does way more harm than good.

Over and out.

DesertEyes

If I may toss in my .02 worth

My personal experience with the term "rock bottom" comes from a little over 30 years work in the field of addictions and recovery. About half as a professional in the field, the other half as a volunter and member of various 12 step programs.

The reason I state my experience is to follow the guidelines of SoberRecovery which highlight the power of speaking in the first person.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ease-read.html

I am not going to give my professional advice because I am not here as a professional, nor is SoberRecovery a forum for such advice. There are abundant professionals in the world where such advice can be obtained. SR is a place where people can "connect" with each other at a personal level.

I have found that "rock bottom", as well as most other terms in the world of recovery, are taken out of context and then analyzed into ridicule. "Rock bottom", in the context of the Big Book of AA, refers to the motivating factors that drive a person to seek change in their life. The best definition I have found for "rock bottom" is the definition given in the Big Book; Chapter 3, pg 30.

"All of us felt at times that we were regaining control, but such intervals-usually brief-were inevitably followed by still less control, which led in time to pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization."

Taken in the context of the progression of an addiction, (and the preceding paragraphs in Chapter 3) I see "rock bottom" as an emotional state. It has nothing to do with material loss, health, family, or any such. To me, it means an intellectual awareness of the loss of control over my ability to manage my life. In turn, I see that as leading directly into Step 1 of the 12 steps.

It is clear to me that addiction is not a simple, mechanical, condition that can be dissected and analyzed with a bit of logic. Attempting to do so, such as by studying individual buzz words, has never brought me any resolution, deeper understanding, or even a glimmer of relief. It is only when I step back from rational analysis and examine the entire zeitgeist, if you will, of my life do I truly understand what is happening and where I am heading.

In the area of my relationship with my ex, which is the subject of this forum, I found that I was in deep denial regarding my ex-wife's behavior. I was attempting to manage her life and her choices, as described in the al-anon literature. It wasn't until I had several conversations with the wives of the men with whom my wife was having an affair that I hit my own "pitiful and incomprehensible demoralization." That is when I could no longer maintain the fantasy of the "perfect marriage" and was forced to face the reality of my situation. That is when I sought help from powers greater than myself; a marriage therapist, a sponsor, and the program of al-anon.

To me, "rock bottom" means to pierce through my denial, nothing more.

Mike

WishingWell

This is all a WOW!

I have watched many people die, chasing the idea of "rock bottom"...and lots of newbies on the forums come in swirling for a long time thinking they aren't bad enough to get better. (Add to that the idea of the "real alcoholic"...and it's the perfect storm.)

I think this is a terrible shame and completely unnecessary. I wish the term could simply be deleted from the lexicon of recovery.

This is TRUTH, IMO!

Seren

How about 'watershed' if you like?

There were many occasions that could have been 'watershed' events for my stepson. My husband and I never, ever used the dreaded "B" word around his son.

Not during all the conversations his dad had with him about his drinking and his health when his face would occasionally start bleeding spontaeously.
Not when his brothers, sister and father got together (in a parking lot no less) for a meeting and then met with thim to convince him to go to the emergency room.
Not while he was having hallucinations in the hospital, not while liters of ascites fluid were drained off of his abdomen.
Not when he was told by the doctors that he would die from liver failure if he began drinking again.
Not when his skin was the color of grey poupon mustard for weeks after his hospitalization, his belly was still swollen, and his arms and legs were skinny as twigs.
Not when he turned to crack cocaine because he was told by the doctors not to drink.
Not when he threatened to kill his father, his sister, and one of his brothers while on crack.
Not when he was in the hospital again for a raging case of cellulitis in his legs.
Not when he was in jail for writing fraudulent checks, the first, second, third, fourth, fifth, or sixth times.
Not when he was wandering the streets where he lives this past October and was found by his friends and taken to the hospital.
Not even when Mr. HG and I flew to see him in the hospital--again.

In my opinion, it does not matter at all what you call it. We never used that word around my stepson, and yet he was still in deep denial about how bad his life had become.

He even glamorized his lifestyle at one point as he talked about how cool he thought it would be to become involved in the 'crack trade'--until the day he had one of his car windows broken out and was tazered by a crack dealer. Another potential watershed moment that did not come to fruition.

I am very, very happy and relieved that there are people on these boards who have not needed such extreme events to occur over and over again in order to turn their lives around.

I am also happy when I hear stories of family members whose situation did not become so unmanageable that a break was needed. My stepson, sadly, was not one of those people.

Mr. HG and I are finally entertaining a bit of hope for this young man's future now that he has been the one to initiate a treatment plan for himself.