Dinner out and drinking
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Greenville, Sc
Posts: 4
Dinner out and drinking
I am new this site and Al-anon. I am finding both helpful, but I would like more concrete information. Four nights a week I get home too late from work for my retired husband to eat with me, he goes to a local bar has a few drinks and eats. He is drinking more and more. And driving, eek. The other three days a week we normally eat out because he prefers it, even if I have food to prepare. Some times I may have a drink, usually I do not as it is incompatable with my exercise/weight loss program. He always has a few and sometimes too many. It makes for an expensive and annoying meal. How have you guys handled it? Do you go out and eat with the drinker? If he drinks when I am not around, that is his choice, but if I go with him, knowing that he is going to drink does that make me complicit in some way?
Oh. And last week he got a DUI. But he only sees that they stopped him for speeding, not that they charged him for DUI. I was not with him.
Watching and waiting and not trying to control is HARD.
Opinions on sharing dinner with drinking spouse?
Oh. And last week he got a DUI. But he only sees that they stopped him for speeding, not that they charged him for DUI. I was not with him.
Watching and waiting and not trying to control is HARD.
Opinions on sharing dinner with drinking spouse?
Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 598
I have made a personal boundary to not have dinner with AH when he is drinking as he always drinks too much- this means we will probably not go out anymore as he does not like to eat anywhere where he cannot drink. So many dinners have been too stressful as he gets progressively more aggressive. It is your choice whatever you do. He does not have to like it - but it is your choice!
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
By definition, alcoholism is loss of control of drinking. This means that after the first drink, the alcoholic has no control over how many drinks will follow. As he becomes more intoxicated, he becomes more resistant to suggestion, more defensive, more aggressive, and more dangerous. If you sit there and take it, you are enabling him. If you allow him to drive you home, you are enabling him and abandoning yourself and your core values.
My suggestion is to set clear boundaries within yourself about how you will be treated on these dinners out. Keep a taxi service on your cell phone and use it. You don't need to announce your intentions as a "threat before dinner." Simply tell yourself that once his behavior turns and you start to feel sick inside, you are on your way home. Alone. There need be no drama. There need be even no conversation about it. In fact, if it were me, I'd excuse myself for the powder room and slip away home on my own.
This will make things worse with him, with the marriage. When the spouse starts making boundaries and holding them, things get worse. The alcoholic will try to dominate and control so those boundaries dissolve and things go the alcoholic's way.
But if you want to stay in the marriage long enough to see whether recovery in you evokes, eventually, recovery in him, then this is the bullet you will have to bite for awhile. You will have to be willing to no longer tolerate being disrespected by a drunk man, and making it very clear by your actions. No lectures, no threats. Removing yourself every time he's drunk is the action he will notice. Words out your mouth will have no effect.
It's tough. I wish you strength and support there.
My suggestion is to set clear boundaries within yourself about how you will be treated on these dinners out. Keep a taxi service on your cell phone and use it. You don't need to announce your intentions as a "threat before dinner." Simply tell yourself that once his behavior turns and you start to feel sick inside, you are on your way home. Alone. There need be no drama. There need be even no conversation about it. In fact, if it were me, I'd excuse myself for the powder room and slip away home on my own.
This will make things worse with him, with the marriage. When the spouse starts making boundaries and holding them, things get worse. The alcoholic will try to dominate and control so those boundaries dissolve and things go the alcoholic's way.
But if you want to stay in the marriage long enough to see whether recovery in you evokes, eventually, recovery in him, then this is the bullet you will have to bite for awhile. You will have to be willing to no longer tolerate being disrespected by a drunk man, and making it very clear by your actions. No lectures, no threats. Removing yourself every time he's drunk is the action he will notice. Words out your mouth will have no effect.
It's tough. I wish you strength and support there.
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hello Redroof, Welcome to SR!
I'm glad you found us, but really sorry for the reason! Please make yourself comfortable here. Read all you can about addiction and recovery, it helps!
I think learning about boundaries, what they are, how they can protect your peace will help. Boundaries in relationships are to protect us from unacceptable behavior--they are not ultimatums for the alcoholics in our lives.
As an example, my stepson would get very ugly and abusive on the phone with his father while drinking and using. My husband's boundary was that he would not continue the conversation if "jr." became hateful--and so sometimes the conversation would end abruptly with my husband hanging up the phone on "jr." mid-sentence.
Practically speaking, you may want to consider taking steps to protect yourself financially. Is the car he drives in both names? If so, you may want to consider changing it to be in his name only so that you are not liable if someone gets hurt.
Welcome, again! Post and vent or ask questions anytime
I'm glad you found us, but really sorry for the reason! Please make yourself comfortable here. Read all you can about addiction and recovery, it helps!
I think learning about boundaries, what they are, how they can protect your peace will help. Boundaries in relationships are to protect us from unacceptable behavior--they are not ultimatums for the alcoholics in our lives.
As an example, my stepson would get very ugly and abusive on the phone with his father while drinking and using. My husband's boundary was that he would not continue the conversation if "jr." became hateful--and so sometimes the conversation would end abruptly with my husband hanging up the phone on "jr." mid-sentence.
Practically speaking, you may want to consider taking steps to protect yourself financially. Is the car he drives in both names? If so, you may want to consider changing it to be in his name only so that you are not liable if someone gets hurt.
Welcome, again! Post and vent or ask questions anytime
box of chocolates
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,013
I havent drank in a year because of my ah even though he still has but i can tell you even if i did drink i wouldnt drink with him. i stopped playing his game and decided that i would make him Realize how bad his drinking was/is and how it isnt at all acceptable by stopping drinking myself. i can say its actually worked but no he hasnt actually gone past a few days sober...thats his problem but he does know it is a problem his problem he cant say as he had before that i drink and i enable and i have a problem (i never had a problem with alcohol....but boy alcoholics like to think everyone else does too) anyhow after thanksgiving me and ah went out to eat with friends and family whom some were drinking he said he wouldnt drink but then once we got to the restaurant that changed i cut the evening short and we left. I wont be going out to eat with him again with others...and if he drinks with just me and him at a restaurant that too will get cut.....i find that my STRESS and MY SANITY is more important than dinner out......i will not participate in something that will make an event displeasing for myself.
so now you know what i would do in your situation as i have in my own.
its not "controlling" the situation by putting boundaries on what you will and wont tolerate and its not controlling to say no to a situation that makes you uncomfortable.
My ah too got a dui and blamed it on cops trying to get him for something anything...i guess "conspiracy theory" lol its denial.....he has gotten better with that and owns up i like to think its because of the change ive done for me.
1.I wont go to a get together,restaurant etc as long as he is drinking.
2. I dont drink with him
3.I also Have not woken him up for work because he drank too much.
4. i have left longest i have before because of his drinking
so now you know what i would do in your situation as i have in my own.
its not "controlling" the situation by putting boundaries on what you will and wont tolerate and its not controlling to say no to a situation that makes you uncomfortable.
My ah too got a dui and blamed it on cops trying to get him for something anything...i guess "conspiracy theory" lol its denial.....he has gotten better with that and owns up i like to think its because of the change ive done for me.
1.I wont go to a get together,restaurant etc as long as he is drinking.
2. I dont drink with him
3.I also Have not woken him up for work because he drank too much.
4. i have left longest i have before because of his drinking
Member
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
I think the answer here varies from person to person for a simple reason: we each have to figure out what is acceptable to us and establish boundaries that protect us from other people.
In the case of an alcoholic spouse that is difficult.
There's an annoyingly sane and rational expression I remind myself of and for anyone struggling with someone who has an addiction issue it is especially poignant: Never complain about what you permit.
So I suppose we could extrapolate that out a little bit to say that you have to determine what is and is not acceptable to you and then set a boundary where that line is and be willing to enforce it. This can be very hard when it involves changing the rules on someone after many years and some joint counseling might be a good idea.
I can not put myself in your shoes obviously but I can tell you what my boundaries might be if I had the same scenario... err... well I guess I have to change it a little bit because a husband drinking would raise all sorts of awkward issues for me ...I'll pretend it's a wife, lol.
1. You have said you are in al-anon but not whether he is in AA or if he is aware of the problem or if he believes he is an alcoholic. In your shoes the DUI would scare me because it is an escalation - the degradation of your relationship and presumably his work performance is a slow process. It would be easy to miss that but the DUI is different - it is public, it has consequences. Wait til you see your next auto insurance premium and maybe see a cardiologist before you open it. My first boundary would be one of protection and safety: I will not tolerate drunken driving whether I am in the car with you or not. If you are with him he can give up the keys. If you are not with him it is trickier but I would go so far as to get the breathalyzer ignition device. I could not stand worrying if my spouse is going to make it home.
2. You believe he has an issue. Does he? If not, then Another boundary I would set is that he needs to take an honest look at the problem. That might be an assessment by a treatment counselor (it's just a meeting).
Some others that come to mind would be alcohol in the house... hard to say with so little info.
I can tell you what boundaries I have set and where they have been challenging. A few months after my wife dried out and got into AA she got pregnant so my boundaries had to be set differently - I had to protect our child. I also had seen what stage 4 alcoholism looked like in her and had seen her nearly die once and had kicked her out once because my first boundary was that I will not deal with an actively drinking alcoholic who refuses to get help. Instead, I made her leave and she did not return for a month and had attended around 20 AA meetings. Her continued sobriety and AA was a condition of return.
I caught one drinking episode while she was 7 months pregnant and I was less than happy about it. At that point I set a boundary: I will not tolerate drinking while you are pregnant or allow you to care for a child while you are drinking so I set a more well-defined boundary: If you drink, you go to rehab. I later found out she had drank again but it was two months after the drinking and to the best of my knowledge and the evidence it appeared that she had stopped (huge) and had started doing two AA meetings per day at that time but a deal is a deal. She drank, now she gets treatment (starts today, outpatient). Note that a boundary doesn't require a deal or consensus but I prefer to communicate those boundaries and explain the consequences and get a head nod... it makes the discussion easier later and it seems fair. You know that if you do X then Y happens, simple. If outpatient treatment results in another relapse then we move to inpatient treatment and repeat it until she either gets well or we reach a point where she gets sick of the rules and leaves or I lose hope and quit. I can't make her go to rehab or make her refrain from drinking because I can't control her actions or her will. I can control my own though - I can hold her accountable and off to rehab she goes. She could refuse and that would be one of those times when boundaries are tough - my two alternatives would be to accept it and basically admit that my boundaries are just for show and that breaking them just means I will be mad for a while, she will behave for a while, rinse, repeat.... or.... I can put my foot down hard and force her out of the house. That's icky - you can't make your spouse leave without the child without taking legal action like filing for divorce and custody or calling social services and getting mom removed. So I pray we never get there. My wife is not happy about the rehab thing but she gets it and she knows me well enough to know that I may tolerate a lot but my backbone turns to iron when my kids are involved and that I would follow through if she refused to go get help.... so her knowledge of the boundary supports her recovery. Note that I do not see consequences as punishment. She is not going to rehab because she drank and deceived me, she is going because drinking and deceiving me and hiding it from her AA sponsor and everyone else is proof that she needs more help. AA is for support, not treatment. She should have gotten treatment first but a year ago I did not know better and she was not on my insurance plan which is one of those plans that is now considered "Too good" and something to punish me for (lol). Now I have the ability to get ehr the best care money can buy and a vested interest in the outcome.
I went through a process. I took on this challenge with great trepidation and made a deal with myself and her before I agreed to get married and attempt to have a family and it was simple - I am not willing to live in chaos or in fear that I will come home and find her dead or allow my older child or our newborn to grow up around an actively using addict. My wife wants to get well and the first year of recovery has been imperfect. She drank a couple times but she's facing the consequences and continuing to seek help and she's working hard at it. Some said I should give her the boot now and take our child from her because she will never change... I ignored that because it doesn't fit me. I believe the best thing for us is if she gets well and as long as she continues to work toward that goal and make progress toward that goal then I am willing to support her and I have been able to get past the bumps in the road and am content that I am doing the best I can in a difficult situation. That 'peace' that I work on every day is contingent upon not compromising my principles as I would if I allowed her to drink. Even though she's broken that boundary I can live with the consequence of sending her for treatment rather than sending her packing because it meets MY need to stand firm regarding living with an actively drinking alcoholic. She is 1000 times better than a year ago and recovery is a process. I accept that she is likely to relapse in the future and that I am powerless to stop that. I am not powerless though if it does occur. If she relapses she has to go get treatment and she can't be around here - I will be too busy doing my job and hers and if I had to deal with someone drinking and in my way while I did their chores I would be hell to be around because I would be PISSED. If, however, she relapses and goes to a rehab facility I can manage just as I would if she were being treated for any other illness.
...one size fits one when it comes to boundaries. You have to figure out what you can and can't accept and consequences you are truly willing to enforce and that's something only you can know.
Best of luck, hope this helps some. Talk/write through your thoughts. Folks here are pretty good about spotting holes or unrealistic things that would be hard to implement. Good boundaries are those that are not nebulous. When I set the rehab one my wife first started to say that welllll, it depends on the situation - if she's drinking and can't stop that's one thing but if she had a drink and stopped then quack quack quack. I came down like a hammer on that one because another boundary is that i will not be put in the position of determining how bad the problem is because I am not qualified and someone could die. Thus: the choice to drink is hers but one drink = 1000 drinks and I make no distinction because for an alcoholic, every lapse could be the one they lose control of and that winds up killing them and I won't be responsible for that. She has to be so I left her in control of her choices and took control of the consequences should she choose poorly.
Sorry - long reply but kinda illustrates how hard it can be to set simple boundaries. Simple and easy are not the same thing.
In the case of an alcoholic spouse that is difficult.
There's an annoyingly sane and rational expression I remind myself of and for anyone struggling with someone who has an addiction issue it is especially poignant: Never complain about what you permit.
So I suppose we could extrapolate that out a little bit to say that you have to determine what is and is not acceptable to you and then set a boundary where that line is and be willing to enforce it. This can be very hard when it involves changing the rules on someone after many years and some joint counseling might be a good idea.
I can not put myself in your shoes obviously but I can tell you what my boundaries might be if I had the same scenario... err... well I guess I have to change it a little bit because a husband drinking would raise all sorts of awkward issues for me ...I'll pretend it's a wife, lol.
1. You have said you are in al-anon but not whether he is in AA or if he is aware of the problem or if he believes he is an alcoholic. In your shoes the DUI would scare me because it is an escalation - the degradation of your relationship and presumably his work performance is a slow process. It would be easy to miss that but the DUI is different - it is public, it has consequences. Wait til you see your next auto insurance premium and maybe see a cardiologist before you open it. My first boundary would be one of protection and safety: I will not tolerate drunken driving whether I am in the car with you or not. If you are with him he can give up the keys. If you are not with him it is trickier but I would go so far as to get the breathalyzer ignition device. I could not stand worrying if my spouse is going to make it home.
2. You believe he has an issue. Does he? If not, then Another boundary I would set is that he needs to take an honest look at the problem. That might be an assessment by a treatment counselor (it's just a meeting).
Some others that come to mind would be alcohol in the house... hard to say with so little info.
I can tell you what boundaries I have set and where they have been challenging. A few months after my wife dried out and got into AA she got pregnant so my boundaries had to be set differently - I had to protect our child. I also had seen what stage 4 alcoholism looked like in her and had seen her nearly die once and had kicked her out once because my first boundary was that I will not deal with an actively drinking alcoholic who refuses to get help. Instead, I made her leave and she did not return for a month and had attended around 20 AA meetings. Her continued sobriety and AA was a condition of return.
I caught one drinking episode while she was 7 months pregnant and I was less than happy about it. At that point I set a boundary: I will not tolerate drinking while you are pregnant or allow you to care for a child while you are drinking so I set a more well-defined boundary: If you drink, you go to rehab. I later found out she had drank again but it was two months after the drinking and to the best of my knowledge and the evidence it appeared that she had stopped (huge) and had started doing two AA meetings per day at that time but a deal is a deal. She drank, now she gets treatment (starts today, outpatient). Note that a boundary doesn't require a deal or consensus but I prefer to communicate those boundaries and explain the consequences and get a head nod... it makes the discussion easier later and it seems fair. You know that if you do X then Y happens, simple. If outpatient treatment results in another relapse then we move to inpatient treatment and repeat it until she either gets well or we reach a point where she gets sick of the rules and leaves or I lose hope and quit. I can't make her go to rehab or make her refrain from drinking because I can't control her actions or her will. I can control my own though - I can hold her accountable and off to rehab she goes. She could refuse and that would be one of those times when boundaries are tough - my two alternatives would be to accept it and basically admit that my boundaries are just for show and that breaking them just means I will be mad for a while, she will behave for a while, rinse, repeat.... or.... I can put my foot down hard and force her out of the house. That's icky - you can't make your spouse leave without the child without taking legal action like filing for divorce and custody or calling social services and getting mom removed. So I pray we never get there. My wife is not happy about the rehab thing but she gets it and she knows me well enough to know that I may tolerate a lot but my backbone turns to iron when my kids are involved and that I would follow through if she refused to go get help.... so her knowledge of the boundary supports her recovery. Note that I do not see consequences as punishment. She is not going to rehab because she drank and deceived me, she is going because drinking and deceiving me and hiding it from her AA sponsor and everyone else is proof that she needs more help. AA is for support, not treatment. She should have gotten treatment first but a year ago I did not know better and she was not on my insurance plan which is one of those plans that is now considered "Too good" and something to punish me for (lol). Now I have the ability to get ehr the best care money can buy and a vested interest in the outcome.
I went through a process. I took on this challenge with great trepidation and made a deal with myself and her before I agreed to get married and attempt to have a family and it was simple - I am not willing to live in chaos or in fear that I will come home and find her dead or allow my older child or our newborn to grow up around an actively using addict. My wife wants to get well and the first year of recovery has been imperfect. She drank a couple times but she's facing the consequences and continuing to seek help and she's working hard at it. Some said I should give her the boot now and take our child from her because she will never change... I ignored that because it doesn't fit me. I believe the best thing for us is if she gets well and as long as she continues to work toward that goal and make progress toward that goal then I am willing to support her and I have been able to get past the bumps in the road and am content that I am doing the best I can in a difficult situation. That 'peace' that I work on every day is contingent upon not compromising my principles as I would if I allowed her to drink. Even though she's broken that boundary I can live with the consequence of sending her for treatment rather than sending her packing because it meets MY need to stand firm regarding living with an actively drinking alcoholic. She is 1000 times better than a year ago and recovery is a process. I accept that she is likely to relapse in the future and that I am powerless to stop that. I am not powerless though if it does occur. If she relapses she has to go get treatment and she can't be around here - I will be too busy doing my job and hers and if I had to deal with someone drinking and in my way while I did their chores I would be hell to be around because I would be PISSED. If, however, she relapses and goes to a rehab facility I can manage just as I would if she were being treated for any other illness.
...one size fits one when it comes to boundaries. You have to figure out what you can and can't accept and consequences you are truly willing to enforce and that's something only you can know.
Best of luck, hope this helps some. Talk/write through your thoughts. Folks here are pretty good about spotting holes or unrealistic things that would be hard to implement. Good boundaries are those that are not nebulous. When I set the rehab one my wife first started to say that welllll, it depends on the situation - if she's drinking and can't stop that's one thing but if she had a drink and stopped then quack quack quack. I came down like a hammer on that one because another boundary is that i will not be put in the position of determining how bad the problem is because I am not qualified and someone could die. Thus: the choice to drink is hers but one drink = 1000 drinks and I make no distinction because for an alcoholic, every lapse could be the one they lose control of and that winds up killing them and I won't be responsible for that. She has to be so I left her in control of her choices and took control of the consequences should she choose poorly.
Sorry - long reply but kinda illustrates how hard it can be to set simple boundaries. Simple and easy are not the same thing.
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