AV talking again
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
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AV talking again
3 weeks to the day of no booze.
The AV is back - I suppose never went away.
Not back to AA yet. Talks about it. Fighting with himself. Been two hours back and forth over whether to have a drink tonight. Keeps asking my opinion keeps trying to talk me into agreeing that having a drink every once in a while is ok.
Yes it is ok, if you aren't an alcoholic with pancreatitis.
However, my only response has been - you are a grown man who can make your own decisions I am not going to make them for you. You know if its right or wrong. Stop trying to manipulate me into agreeing with you.
Anf then I couldn't resist saying "just so you know "normal" people don't take two hours to decide if they should or shouldn't have a drink. That should be a red flag don't you think"?
Probably shouldn't have said that but I believe I was reading in Pohsdad thread today a mention about sarcasm......sometimes I can't help it.
Good news is I expected this as he hasn't gotten back into a program and I am not upset or disappointed.
Still hate to watch the struggle.
The AV is back - I suppose never went away.
Not back to AA yet. Talks about it. Fighting with himself. Been two hours back and forth over whether to have a drink tonight. Keeps asking my opinion keeps trying to talk me into agreeing that having a drink every once in a while is ok.
Yes it is ok, if you aren't an alcoholic with pancreatitis.
However, my only response has been - you are a grown man who can make your own decisions I am not going to make them for you. You know if its right or wrong. Stop trying to manipulate me into agreeing with you.
Anf then I couldn't resist saying "just so you know "normal" people don't take two hours to decide if they should or shouldn't have a drink. That should be a red flag don't you think"?
Probably shouldn't have said that but I believe I was reading in Pohsdad thread today a mention about sarcasm......sometimes I can't help it.
Good news is I expected this as he hasn't gotten back into a program and I am not upset or disappointed.
Still hate to watch the struggle.
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Here is what happened...he decided to drink. He said I just want to have a couple - I said I keep telling you the same thing stop asking me to agree or make the decision for you its your decision you know my opinion I have voiced it many times.
So he came back from liquor store with vodka. Made a drink. Sat in the chair and drank it. Got up poured the vodka down the sink. Said he made the wrong decision went to bed.
I am torn whether to feel positive or manipulated. I am not sure if that's how he really feels or if it was another "example" of how he can now control his drinking and is not an alcoholic anymore ( his most often said point of trying to convince me this is ok).
My gut feeling is he isn't going back to AA because he doesn't want to "officially" lose 10 years sobriety. I have thought to myself about saying just go and don't say anything with the thought if he just gets in there under any circumstance then that's what matters. I don't know if that's right or wrong it feels wrong because its a lie.
Hydro - yes I have places to go but I was working. I was also curious to see what the decision would be.
So he came back from liquor store with vodka. Made a drink. Sat in the chair and drank it. Got up poured the vodka down the sink. Said he made the wrong decision went to bed.
I am torn whether to feel positive or manipulated. I am not sure if that's how he really feels or if it was another "example" of how he can now control his drinking and is not an alcoholic anymore ( his most often said point of trying to convince me this is ok).
My gut feeling is he isn't going back to AA because he doesn't want to "officially" lose 10 years sobriety. I have thought to myself about saying just go and don't say anything with the thought if he just gets in there under any circumstance then that's what matters. I don't know if that's right or wrong it feels wrong because its a lie.
Hydro - yes I have places to go but I was working. I was also curious to see what the decision would be.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
It is so hard to watch them struggle and not be able to impose the result. Especially when you know, as with your AH with pancreatitis that more alcohol will have severe consequencs.
What does AV mean?
Take care,
ShootingStar1
What does AV mean?
Take care,
ShootingStar1
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Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 239
I'm so sorry for the struggle - the AV is powerful, seductive and convincing. That is the main reason it should be ignored and not interacted with (easier said than done).
My AV has been very quite for the last month (stopped drinking 50 days ago). Really scary though, because I know he's there, waiting to fill any empty void he can.
You are right, you have expressed your opinion and he has to make the decision.
Great thougths your way,
Toss
My AV has been very quite for the last month (stopped drinking 50 days ago). Really scary though, because I know he's there, waiting to fill any empty void he can.
You are right, you have expressed your opinion and he has to make the decision.
Great thougths your way,
Toss
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Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 63
redatlanta,
What about an alternative activities list? Instead of engaging about whether or not to drink what about totally changing the subject? Suggesting an activity that you would both enjoy doing together? Movies, dinner - better yet dancing - something phyical.
Believe it or not I actually find it a positive step that he was engaging with you instead of isolating.
Vicki
What about an alternative activities list? Instead of engaging about whether or not to drink what about totally changing the subject? Suggesting an activity that you would both enjoy doing together? Movies, dinner - better yet dancing - something phyical.
Believe it or not I actually find it a positive step that he was engaging with you instead of isolating.
Vicki
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Location: Gatineau, QC, CA
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Probably he is having a hard time for the 10 years. Don't think he needs guilt right now from ..
Time dosent matter, as long as he gets back up and keeps going, Without the shame. Shame will make him drink more. As for the AV sometimes you have to just not ignore but acknowledge it's presence. Having and endless discussion with IT is like having and argument with a 4 year old...
Time dosent matter, as long as he gets back up and keeps going, Without the shame. Shame will make him drink more. As for the AV sometimes you have to just not ignore but acknowledge it's presence. Having and endless discussion with IT is like having and argument with a 4 year old...
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Location: New York, NY
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Some people are too self-destructive to stay sober. I'm so very sorry you have to be there to witness. If there's another place you can go I hope you do that. With active alcoholism there is nothing anyone can do or so to keep someone from drinking.
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
I would tell the man go to AA, hold your head high for the ten years of sobriety you achieved, don't discount those ten years, and don't feel badly about yourself that you relapsed.
As a non-alcoholic, I am alarmed to read that alcoholics feel that much pressure coming from within about having slipped.
Put it behind you already! Get back to and on with the program! I wish I could tell them all that. Who cares if you slipped...just get back into it!
That they feel internal guilt is a horrible roadblock to attending meetings again. It is self-sabotage.
I would not have hesitated to say those words to my X if ONLY he had embraced AA or sobriety at all !
As a non-alcoholic, I am alarmed to read that alcoholics feel that much pressure coming from within about having slipped.
Put it behind you already! Get back to and on with the program! I wish I could tell them all that. Who cares if you slipped...just get back into it!
That they feel internal guilt is a horrible roadblock to attending meetings again. It is self-sabotage.
I would not have hesitated to say those words to my X if ONLY he had embraced AA or sobriety at all !
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
I so relate to you!
My husband was 3 years sober, last year has relapsed. He stopped because a detox almost killed him 4 years ago. He relapsed when his grandmother died. A wise person told me to WATCH OUT because now that he's had a drink again and realizes it won't kill him (yet) he's more apt to try it again. True. The last relapse he did the same as your man, bought a small bottle, took some drinks - decided he didn't need/want it, stopped. I've left his sobriety to HIM. He's living in our guest house as he figures this out. I do see that as growth. He goes to AA and we go to therapy together.
My mind bounces all over the place. Last night I re-read "No More Letting Go: The Spirituality of Taking Action Against Alcoholism and Drug Addiction by Debra Jay". She explains all the family emotions so well without out any of the guilt crap. Yes, we want to help. Yes, we need to help them find treatment. Yes, this is our life too so of course we're invested. Always fresh to hear again that we aren't nuts for feeling like we do -
My husband is smart, talented, kind, successful, thoughtful, generous, no bars, no affairs - just a sad lonely disease that eats up a good man.
I have a question for you - I keep thinking - "What if I just fully accept this and quit fighting so hard against coming to peace with the reality?" He's an alcoholic. He might relapse and when he does, he'll pull himself back up. There is no controlling this - so why worry about it so much. Why be shocked when he falls? I can always decided to leave at some time, but I'm not there today.
I have many friends with very hard marriages that have nothing to do with addiction - at what point do we just accept their disease for what it is? Their human. I feel that if I don't, I'm setting MYSELF up for a life of misery. If I do fully accept the truth - stop the constant expectations - I step off off the rollercoaster. As a codependent I know that sometimes accepting that WE can't fix something is our biggest challenge. Why not choose peace?
If not, then I should leave. As Einstein says - Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
My husband was 3 years sober, last year has relapsed. He stopped because a detox almost killed him 4 years ago. He relapsed when his grandmother died. A wise person told me to WATCH OUT because now that he's had a drink again and realizes it won't kill him (yet) he's more apt to try it again. True. The last relapse he did the same as your man, bought a small bottle, took some drinks - decided he didn't need/want it, stopped. I've left his sobriety to HIM. He's living in our guest house as he figures this out. I do see that as growth. He goes to AA and we go to therapy together.
My mind bounces all over the place. Last night I re-read "No More Letting Go: The Spirituality of Taking Action Against Alcoholism and Drug Addiction by Debra Jay". She explains all the family emotions so well without out any of the guilt crap. Yes, we want to help. Yes, we need to help them find treatment. Yes, this is our life too so of course we're invested. Always fresh to hear again that we aren't nuts for feeling like we do -
My husband is smart, talented, kind, successful, thoughtful, generous, no bars, no affairs - just a sad lonely disease that eats up a good man.
I have a question for you - I keep thinking - "What if I just fully accept this and quit fighting so hard against coming to peace with the reality?" He's an alcoholic. He might relapse and when he does, he'll pull himself back up. There is no controlling this - so why worry about it so much. Why be shocked when he falls? I can always decided to leave at some time, but I'm not there today.
I have many friends with very hard marriages that have nothing to do with addiction - at what point do we just accept their disease for what it is? Their human. I feel that if I don't, I'm setting MYSELF up for a life of misery. If I do fully accept the truth - stop the constant expectations - I step off off the rollercoaster. As a codependent I know that sometimes accepting that WE can't fix something is our biggest challenge. Why not choose peace?
If not, then I should leave. As Einstein says - Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
As I re-read the book, I've just posted an excerpt in a thread, the path becomes clearer. Detachment in a whole new light. My bottom line has always been - he must be actively in treatment. He is. It's painful none-the-less, confusing most times and perhaps will always be on some level. Perhaps that's the acceptance?
I like this quote from the book -
The healthy people I know, the ones I respect seem to allow themselves to be less than fully certain without being paralyzed. They're honest about having their fears but they also face into them without having to run away. They debate within themselves and with others the right course of conduct, neither jumping for the simple answer nor being frozen into inaction. They haven't got the easy answers, but they're willing to go ahead as best they can. . . They are prepared to put a lot of effort and pain into making decisions, while paradoxically really trusting that God's hands and in God's time it will all come around right.
by Molly Wolf
I like this quote from the book -
The healthy people I know, the ones I respect seem to allow themselves to be less than fully certain without being paralyzed. They're honest about having their fears but they also face into them without having to run away. They debate within themselves and with others the right course of conduct, neither jumping for the simple answer nor being frozen into inaction. They haven't got the easy answers, but they're willing to go ahead as best they can. . . They are prepared to put a lot of effort and pain into making decisions, while paradoxically really trusting that God's hands and in God's time it will all come around right.
by Molly Wolf
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This is the situation I am in with my ABF, or whatever he is.
We were going to meetings together, he still knows whatever nights I go, and I have been asking him if he wanted to go, so he would go.
The first night I had something to do, he did not go on his own. That's a big warning sign. If you aren't willing to take the initiative and go alone, then it's not going to work.
So I don't know if he relapsed or not, and I don't care. He has not gone with me to meetings in a week. I have gone, I go to both AA and Al-Anon, and even though I was kind of embarrassed that he wasn't going, and I would have to explain it to everyone, I went anyway.
It's his problem, not mine. All I can do is be sure that I don't start the downward spiral of drinking myself because I have all these resentments toward him.
It's a shame, but I really do enjoy all the meetings I go to, so I am not upset about it or anything. And no one has asked me where he is, because, come to find out, they already knew he was slipping away, just like I did.
We were going to meetings together, he still knows whatever nights I go, and I have been asking him if he wanted to go, so he would go.
The first night I had something to do, he did not go on his own. That's a big warning sign. If you aren't willing to take the initiative and go alone, then it's not going to work.
So I don't know if he relapsed or not, and I don't care. He has not gone with me to meetings in a week. I have gone, I go to both AA and Al-Anon, and even though I was kind of embarrassed that he wasn't going, and I would have to explain it to everyone, I went anyway.
It's his problem, not mine. All I can do is be sure that I don't start the downward spiral of drinking myself because I have all these resentments toward him.
It's a shame, but I really do enjoy all the meetings I go to, so I am not upset about it or anything. And no one has asked me where he is, because, come to find out, they already knew he was slipping away, just like I did.
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Wishingwell - Some very good points. My husband is wonderful, he really is. he is the most loving, faithful, loyal partner and absolutely my best friend.
I was shocked when he relapsed simply because of his health issues. I was not shocked as I mentioned that it visited us again last night.
We have talked about it today. He just wants to be able to sometimes have a drink. Go out with his wife and have a glass of wine. Relax. Ok I get that. My response was if we knew that YOU could, forever, no problem then I wouldn't have a single issue with it even with your health problems. But we don't know. You don't know and statistically everything says this isn't a possibility. So for me its not risk worthy. You got sober 100% on your own and stayed that way. You don't want to go that route then its all yours 100% as well and when it blows up in your face then its your problem.
We did have a very scary night in October where he became enraged while drinking. If that happens again we are done. Absolutely finished.
Clearly he isn't finished with his "research".
WW I did accept his health issues when we got together and honestly the hospital visits the days of feeling crappy, they don't bother me. I signed up for it I knew what I was getting into. I didn't sign up for a relapse but I guess hell, I could go through menopause and go crazy, I could get cancer or some other sickness. My dad used to tell me when you get married you never know what you will end up with.
What bugs the me the most is not be a party to it. I have said what I said but I still question whether or not it clears me of contributing. I guess that is the codie in me. So hey, last night no issue. Today I have made cinnamon rolls, made a batch of skin care, we are watching the game - dinner soon and we have planned a movie tomorrow. There is a lot about our relationship that is wonderful.
I don't know the answer to what you said. I guess the answer is if it works for you/me then that's your answer.
I was shocked when he relapsed simply because of his health issues. I was not shocked as I mentioned that it visited us again last night.
We have talked about it today. He just wants to be able to sometimes have a drink. Go out with his wife and have a glass of wine. Relax. Ok I get that. My response was if we knew that YOU could, forever, no problem then I wouldn't have a single issue with it even with your health problems. But we don't know. You don't know and statistically everything says this isn't a possibility. So for me its not risk worthy. You got sober 100% on your own and stayed that way. You don't want to go that route then its all yours 100% as well and when it blows up in your face then its your problem.
We did have a very scary night in October where he became enraged while drinking. If that happens again we are done. Absolutely finished.
Clearly he isn't finished with his "research".
WW I did accept his health issues when we got together and honestly the hospital visits the days of feeling crappy, they don't bother me. I signed up for it I knew what I was getting into. I didn't sign up for a relapse but I guess hell, I could go through menopause and go crazy, I could get cancer or some other sickness. My dad used to tell me when you get married you never know what you will end up with.
What bugs the me the most is not be a party to it. I have said what I said but I still question whether or not it clears me of contributing. I guess that is the codie in me. So hey, last night no issue. Today I have made cinnamon rolls, made a batch of skin care, we are watching the game - dinner soon and we have planned a movie tomorrow. There is a lot about our relationship that is wonderful.
I don't know the answer to what you said. I guess the answer is if it works for you/me then that's your answer.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
As I just said on another thread, it's a delicate dance. I will not be party to it either and that is a dilemma for you that I don't have. I don't know how I'd handle that. Perhaps just as you are, knowing that he'll see the truth soon enough for himself.
My mind bounces back and forth between hope, facts, knowledge vs fears, worry, negative experiences. I have a friend whose husband has clinical depression. It's much the same, but I have to say in this case - I'll take our dilemma anyday. We never know what dysfunction we'll get in a marriage or in our children. There is no B & W answer.
Sometimes reading on this forum, it feels like I'm the only human being on earth married to a really decent, smart, hardworking, reliable and basically good person who is an alcoholic. It makes the choice to stay, I think, more difficult. Reading that some spouses are losing jobs, constantly raging, staying out all night, not coming home, insulting, missing birthdays, ruining holidays - the laundry list from hell, I get why people run! While I've certainly had our share of hard times during those 3-4 years, 20 years of my marriage has been good. Solid.
There is no clear answer and maybe that's were trust in a Higher Power comes in. I believe in treatment, if he's getting it - there is hope. Living in the moment.
Very happy to have you here and hear your thoughts!
My mind bounces back and forth between hope, facts, knowledge vs fears, worry, negative experiences. I have a friend whose husband has clinical depression. It's much the same, but I have to say in this case - I'll take our dilemma anyday. We never know what dysfunction we'll get in a marriage or in our children. There is no B & W answer.
Sometimes reading on this forum, it feels like I'm the only human being on earth married to a really decent, smart, hardworking, reliable and basically good person who is an alcoholic. It makes the choice to stay, I think, more difficult. Reading that some spouses are losing jobs, constantly raging, staying out all night, not coming home, insulting, missing birthdays, ruining holidays - the laundry list from hell, I get why people run! While I've certainly had our share of hard times during those 3-4 years, 20 years of my marriage has been good. Solid.
There is no clear answer and maybe that's were trust in a Higher Power comes in. I believe in treatment, if he's getting it - there is hope. Living in the moment.
Very happy to have you here and hear your thoughts!
Linkin Park Enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 548
You don't have to leave him just because he is drinking.
I had this issue last night in an Al-Anon meeting. They said I don't have to make the decision to stay or go. When it is time, I will know what to do. It makes sense, and made me feel better.
I had this issue last night in an Al-Anon meeting. They said I don't have to make the decision to stay or go. When it is time, I will know what to do. It makes sense, and made me feel better.
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