Struggling...AH Sobering Up and Leaving?!?
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Struggling...AH Sobering Up and Leaving?!?
Hi all,
I'm married almost 20 years to a super high functioning alcoholic who can work, etc. without anyone knowing, who never gets sick, etc., but can down a fifth of gin in no time, and has for years. I knew he chose alcohol over me for years, but thought it was a choice for a long time because he didn't have issues other than anger toward me. Only recently did I realize how deep it went, even though he's had several failed attempts to quit. He's so successful, it kills him that this is the ONE THING he can't control in his life. We moved a year ago to an entirely new state, left friends and family, because he thought it would be good for him and we agreed to work on our marriage, which had become distant emotionally. Two kids in the mix.
Fast forward-- no effort on his part, same behavior patterns and anger/resentment toward me, new addition of complete physical withdrawal as well. I tried several times to break out of it, but the hurt just turned me off again. Finally, with God's help several months ago I was able to truly work through the steps myself and face the ways I've continued to prolong this "anger/resentment dance" by not breaking out of it myself. After soul-searching and working through it, I gave him a letter explaining all the ways I had failed through the years and how I was going to change. All me-messages, nothing about him.
His response was in a long hurtful letter, focused on "that's nice, but I've moved on emotionally and don't have feelings for you". Painful! But the new me didn't fall back into the old ways and kept at my changes. VERY hard few months, prayed constantly and learned to forgive constantly to stay on my path...all along with comments like "if you can do this, where was it for the last x years?" I have remained gracious, journaling and saving my negative responses for myself.
He has recognized that I'm a different woman...and it just seems to have pushed him further away...he is angry with me for stuff from a decade ago. If it was so bad, why didn't he leave me then? He says he's not ready to change the way I want him to, and I remind him I'm not asking him to change, but he doesn't believe it. I think it's internal pressure.
He has grown increasingly uncomfortable around me, and even though he hasn't had a drop to drink in 16 weeks, and is in constant contact with God, he doesn't seem to be recovering. He isn't working steps, and is afraid to go to AA because someone might find out and he'd get hurt professionally. He plans to do this through a counselor. (One question--does that work? I really think he needs the steps, as his anger/resentment/fear go way deeper than me, even though he pins most of it on me.) His mind is clear in a way it hasn't been before, but he has been trying to leave me now. We could both be financially independent, so that's not an issue. But I know this man is a good man, and his actions are confusing. He has done so much in the last two months to hurt me, and I continue to forgive him. (I never would have imagined I could be like this.)
This week when I left town on a business trip he sent me an email saying he rented a place, opened his own checking account, and was moving out. Yet he says he doesn't want to lose me as his best friend and doesn't want a divorce-- just needs space to work on himself. Then he told the kids before I came home, assuming they'd spend 50% time with each of us. Even though I know how this alcoholism thing works, it still floors me. Where is his mind? Seems all over. I recognize he's a dry drunk right now, but I don't think he realizes he is, or that he's contradicting himself.
Sometimes I think he's just jerking me around because he really is done with our marriage, but mostly I think he really is lost and just trying to act on his feelings toward me too soon, which are conflicting. But every time he says he's being honest with me, another shoe drops and he hits me with something else incredibly hurtful. Then says he's sorry-- but never clarifies what for, and the behavior doesn't change.
For whatever reason, God is giving me patience to stay in this and I think telling me to let it ride for a while... but if he wants me to be a part of his life I feel I need to set some boundaries. However, that's really hard with someone who is all over the place and whose word I no longer trust (which is very sad, as he's very trustworthy). Any advice or experiences to share?
I'm married almost 20 years to a super high functioning alcoholic who can work, etc. without anyone knowing, who never gets sick, etc., but can down a fifth of gin in no time, and has for years. I knew he chose alcohol over me for years, but thought it was a choice for a long time because he didn't have issues other than anger toward me. Only recently did I realize how deep it went, even though he's had several failed attempts to quit. He's so successful, it kills him that this is the ONE THING he can't control in his life. We moved a year ago to an entirely new state, left friends and family, because he thought it would be good for him and we agreed to work on our marriage, which had become distant emotionally. Two kids in the mix.
Fast forward-- no effort on his part, same behavior patterns and anger/resentment toward me, new addition of complete physical withdrawal as well. I tried several times to break out of it, but the hurt just turned me off again. Finally, with God's help several months ago I was able to truly work through the steps myself and face the ways I've continued to prolong this "anger/resentment dance" by not breaking out of it myself. After soul-searching and working through it, I gave him a letter explaining all the ways I had failed through the years and how I was going to change. All me-messages, nothing about him.
His response was in a long hurtful letter, focused on "that's nice, but I've moved on emotionally and don't have feelings for you". Painful! But the new me didn't fall back into the old ways and kept at my changes. VERY hard few months, prayed constantly and learned to forgive constantly to stay on my path...all along with comments like "if you can do this, where was it for the last x years?" I have remained gracious, journaling and saving my negative responses for myself.
He has recognized that I'm a different woman...and it just seems to have pushed him further away...he is angry with me for stuff from a decade ago. If it was so bad, why didn't he leave me then? He says he's not ready to change the way I want him to, and I remind him I'm not asking him to change, but he doesn't believe it. I think it's internal pressure.
He has grown increasingly uncomfortable around me, and even though he hasn't had a drop to drink in 16 weeks, and is in constant contact with God, he doesn't seem to be recovering. He isn't working steps, and is afraid to go to AA because someone might find out and he'd get hurt professionally. He plans to do this through a counselor. (One question--does that work? I really think he needs the steps, as his anger/resentment/fear go way deeper than me, even though he pins most of it on me.) His mind is clear in a way it hasn't been before, but he has been trying to leave me now. We could both be financially independent, so that's not an issue. But I know this man is a good man, and his actions are confusing. He has done so much in the last two months to hurt me, and I continue to forgive him. (I never would have imagined I could be like this.)
This week when I left town on a business trip he sent me an email saying he rented a place, opened his own checking account, and was moving out. Yet he says he doesn't want to lose me as his best friend and doesn't want a divorce-- just needs space to work on himself. Then he told the kids before I came home, assuming they'd spend 50% time with each of us. Even though I know how this alcoholism thing works, it still floors me. Where is his mind? Seems all over. I recognize he's a dry drunk right now, but I don't think he realizes he is, or that he's contradicting himself.
Sometimes I think he's just jerking me around because he really is done with our marriage, but mostly I think he really is lost and just trying to act on his feelings toward me too soon, which are conflicting. But every time he says he's being honest with me, another shoe drops and he hits me with something else incredibly hurtful. Then says he's sorry-- but never clarifies what for, and the behavior doesn't change.
For whatever reason, God is giving me patience to stay in this and I think telling me to let it ride for a while... but if he wants me to be a part of his life I feel I need to set some boundaries. However, that's really hard with someone who is all over the place and whose word I no longer trust (which is very sad, as he's very trustworthy). Any advice or experiences to share?
Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
Welcome to SR. I hope the forum can offer you much needed insight and support.
My first thought is, have you attended any Al-Anon meetings? In the opening to Al-Anon meetings there is a passage that includes the words "living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us. Our thinking becomes distorted...and we.... try to force solutions."
Many newcomers to Al-Anon do not understand that their thinking has become distorted and at first many do not believe it. They think it is the alcoholic who cannot think rationally and make rational choices. But the spouse also is handicapped in this way from living with the insanity and unpredictability and mind-twisting chaos of alcoholism in the home.
I very much hope you will begin attending Al-Anon, find a group you feel comfortable with, and sit and learn. Read the free materials which are excellent. And accept that you need help because in the isolation of your marriage, your emotional and mental health has suffered. This is so for every wife of an alcoholic.
I also very much recommend you begin working one on one with a counselor, and for many months, as your marriage situation is going to be a tremendous challenge for you in the days and months ahead, and alone, you will be quite lost and unable to make good decisions. This is the way it is for all spouses.
It is futile to attempt to analyze why an alcoholic behaves in a certain manner, why he shifts from mood to mood, why he is one person one day and an entirely different person the next. It is self-defeating to attempt to influence him by assuming that he just needs to experience this change or that change. It is degrading to constantly anticipate what he might demand, what might make him change his mind, what might create feelings of love or loyalty in him, what might coerce him to stay in a marriage he finds constricting and controlling (and all alcoholics find their spouses constricting and controlling, for the alcoholic is King or Queen, and all must bow to the alcoholic's demands).
You are currently at his mercy, and so many of us here know the desperation of that. We know the searing pain of the alcoholic's coldness and distance and eventual abandonment of what was once a tender union. We know what it is to defend the alcoholic as a "good person" underneath, as someone who is lost and conflicted and in shame. We know the many ways we rationalize what is really a situation of domination and submission, of the wearing of false masks, and of the betrayal of oneself when we try to maneuver the alcoholic into sobering up, or staying, or at the least, being kind. It is all for naught.
What we learn in recovery is to find our self-worth again, our dignity, and our value. And we learn to be self-focused rather than focused exclusively and obsessively on the alcoholic. We find our core principles for relationship and life again, and we find our strength which has been depleted in defending ourselves against the selfish and bitter and grandiose accusations of the alcoholic.
So I hope you will go to Al-Anon and counseling and begin a journey toward a better understanding of what has happened in your marriage, how that has changed you, and how to find the ground beneath your feet again. If you try to handle this crisis in your marriage and family alone, it is very unlikely the outcome will be a positive one for you. The spouse needs recovery. And she cannot find it alone.
My first thought is, have you attended any Al-Anon meetings? In the opening to Al-Anon meetings there is a passage that includes the words "living with an alcoholic is too much for most of us. Our thinking becomes distorted...and we.... try to force solutions."
Many newcomers to Al-Anon do not understand that their thinking has become distorted and at first many do not believe it. They think it is the alcoholic who cannot think rationally and make rational choices. But the spouse also is handicapped in this way from living with the insanity and unpredictability and mind-twisting chaos of alcoholism in the home.
I very much hope you will begin attending Al-Anon, find a group you feel comfortable with, and sit and learn. Read the free materials which are excellent. And accept that you need help because in the isolation of your marriage, your emotional and mental health has suffered. This is so for every wife of an alcoholic.
I also very much recommend you begin working one on one with a counselor, and for many months, as your marriage situation is going to be a tremendous challenge for you in the days and months ahead, and alone, you will be quite lost and unable to make good decisions. This is the way it is for all spouses.
It is futile to attempt to analyze why an alcoholic behaves in a certain manner, why he shifts from mood to mood, why he is one person one day and an entirely different person the next. It is self-defeating to attempt to influence him by assuming that he just needs to experience this change or that change. It is degrading to constantly anticipate what he might demand, what might make him change his mind, what might create feelings of love or loyalty in him, what might coerce him to stay in a marriage he finds constricting and controlling (and all alcoholics find their spouses constricting and controlling, for the alcoholic is King or Queen, and all must bow to the alcoholic's demands).
You are currently at his mercy, and so many of us here know the desperation of that. We know the searing pain of the alcoholic's coldness and distance and eventual abandonment of what was once a tender union. We know what it is to defend the alcoholic as a "good person" underneath, as someone who is lost and conflicted and in shame. We know the many ways we rationalize what is really a situation of domination and submission, of the wearing of false masks, and of the betrayal of oneself when we try to maneuver the alcoholic into sobering up, or staying, or at the least, being kind. It is all for naught.
What we learn in recovery is to find our self-worth again, our dignity, and our value. And we learn to be self-focused rather than focused exclusively and obsessively on the alcoholic. We find our core principles for relationship and life again, and we find our strength which has been depleted in defending ourselves against the selfish and bitter and grandiose accusations of the alcoholic.
So I hope you will go to Al-Anon and counseling and begin a journey toward a better understanding of what has happened in your marriage, how that has changed you, and how to find the ground beneath your feet again. If you try to handle this crisis in your marriage and family alone, it is very unlikely the outcome will be a positive one for you. The spouse needs recovery. And she cannot find it alone.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
Welcome to the SR family!
Thank you for sharing some of your story with us. Some of our personal stories are in the Stickies. Stickies are the older, permanent posts located at the top of this main forum page. The stickies have been preserved for the wisdom, experience and strength they contain.
Please make yourself at home by reading and posting as often as needed. We are here to support you.
In your post you said this:
IMHO, the behavior does not change because he really is not sorry. When I say I am sorry, I also state what behavior I am sorry for having committed, and then I state what I plan to do to correct said behavior. It is the reasonable way a mature adult handles inappropriate actions that harm others.
Expecting reasonable, sane behaviors from an alcoholic is like going to the hardware store and asking for bread.
You didn't cause this behavior, you can't control it and you won't be able to cure it. The one person's behavior you can control and cure is your own.
So, why are you accepting unacceptable behavior from your life partner?
Thank you for sharing some of your story with us. Some of our personal stories are in the Stickies. Stickies are the older, permanent posts located at the top of this main forum page. The stickies have been preserved for the wisdom, experience and strength they contain.
Please make yourself at home by reading and posting as often as needed. We are here to support you.
In your post you said this:
Originally Posted by Praying 
Sometimes I think he's just jerking me around because he really is done with our marriage, but mostly I think he really is lost and just trying to act on his feelings toward me too soon, which are conflicting. But every time he says he's being honest with me, another shoe drops and he hits me with something else incredibly hurtful. Then says he's sorry-- but never clarifies what for, and the behavior doesn't change.
Expecting reasonable, sane behaviors from an alcoholic is like going to the hardware store and asking for bread.
You didn't cause this behavior, you can't control it and you won't be able to cure it. The one person's behavior you can control and cure is your own.
So, why are you accepting unacceptable behavior from your life partner?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Thanks so much for your post, I recognize so much of what you're saying as being true. I am starting official meetings this week, but to date have just been reading massive amounts of material and seeing a counselor (alone and together). He's dropped hints of an issue with me being controlling over the last week.
I guess the high-functioning part allowed denial for so long, that it's still hard for me to allow that many of our marriage issues to be attributed to this (and of course, HE doesn't think so!) However, the more I read, the more I see us on the pages and our dysfunctional alcoholic dance.
I am struggling because if we didn't have kids I'm at the point where I could cut off communication and take care of only me while he figures himself out. The thing is that he's not drinking, which is different than most posts...so I find it confusing. With the kids, he thinks he's healthy enough to co-parent, and he wants us to be "friends". As I'm working on my boundaries I struggle with both of those. The kids are afraid they'll never see dad and I don't want to hurt them with this-- he's never been abusive to them, though he has patches of hyper-critical verbal attacks.
I'm thinking about standing firm that if he knows he needs to work on him, he needs to truly focus on only that right now...and maybe he can see the kids occasionally, but no long-term visits until he's in a better space...but then we get back to the "control" issues. I need some sort of boundaries so he's not taking advantage of me and causing me to stay too connected to his issues.
No idea how he'll react to that. I don't want to fight. I don't want to hurt my kids. I don't want to be vindictive. I don't want to under react.
I guess the high-functioning part allowed denial for so long, that it's still hard for me to allow that many of our marriage issues to be attributed to this (and of course, HE doesn't think so!) However, the more I read, the more I see us on the pages and our dysfunctional alcoholic dance.
I am struggling because if we didn't have kids I'm at the point where I could cut off communication and take care of only me while he figures himself out. The thing is that he's not drinking, which is different than most posts...so I find it confusing. With the kids, he thinks he's healthy enough to co-parent, and he wants us to be "friends". As I'm working on my boundaries I struggle with both of those. The kids are afraid they'll never see dad and I don't want to hurt them with this-- he's never been abusive to them, though he has patches of hyper-critical verbal attacks.
I'm thinking about standing firm that if he knows he needs to work on him, he needs to truly focus on only that right now...and maybe he can see the kids occasionally, but no long-term visits until he's in a better space...but then we get back to the "control" issues. I need some sort of boundaries so he's not taking advantage of me and causing me to stay too connected to his issues.
No idea how he'll react to that. I don't want to fight. I don't want to hurt my kids. I don't want to be vindictive. I don't want to under react.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 696
You wrote: I guess the high-functioning part allowed denial for so long
I wrote: My XAH was high functioning also for many years. I was in denial and found every excuse, reason for his drinking. Like you, I had kids to manage, a home to keep and a job to tend to. So it was easy to over look alot of abuse (verbal) and his (action)
abuse.....As the years passed, high functioning, became fallen down flat face intoxicated...Alcoholism progresses over time. Yours being no different than mine.
(hope you read that last sentence again, it gets worse, it does not get better)
Sounds like it time for you, to make choices for you and the kids
With the kids, safety would be my main concern, if he moves out
Nope, my XAH didnt like it either, when I began to pull the wool off of my eyes
YOU ARE NOT hurting your kids!!!!!! Get that thru your head now!
HE is making those choices, HE is the alcoholic hurting his entire family!!!!!!!!!!
NOT YOU!!!!!!!
Oh, I hope you continue to seek help for you, get stronger and see the light!!!
When your on that side of the street, (where you are) its foggy, you cant see the light
but if you continue to educate yourself on alcoholism, follow a alanon program, gain new
friends in here........trust me, one of these days...your bell is gonna ring
and you will see daylight
You might even get to the point.you help him pack his bags
or maybe you will support him thru his recovery
and maybe you will just sit still, follow your recovery program, let go and let God
When the time is right and youve had enough of him jerking on your chain
you will know what and when to do it...
I wrote: My XAH was high functioning also for many years. I was in denial and found every excuse, reason for his drinking. Like you, I had kids to manage, a home to keep and a job to tend to. So it was easy to over look alot of abuse (verbal) and his (action)
abuse.....As the years passed, high functioning, became fallen down flat face intoxicated...Alcoholism progresses over time. Yours being no different than mine.
(hope you read that last sentence again, it gets worse, it does not get better)
Sounds like it time for you, to make choices for you and the kids
With the kids, safety would be my main concern, if he moves out
Nope, my XAH didnt like it either, when I began to pull the wool off of my eyes
YOU ARE NOT hurting your kids!!!!!! Get that thru your head now!
HE is making those choices, HE is the alcoholic hurting his entire family!!!!!!!!!!
NOT YOU!!!!!!!
Oh, I hope you continue to seek help for you, get stronger and see the light!!!
When your on that side of the street, (where you are) its foggy, you cant see the light
but if you continue to educate yourself on alcoholism, follow a alanon program, gain new
friends in here........trust me, one of these days...your bell is gonna ring
and you will see daylight
You might even get to the point.you help him pack his bags
or maybe you will support him thru his recovery
and maybe you will just sit still, follow your recovery program, let go and let God
When the time is right and youve had enough of him jerking on your chain
you will know what and when to do it...
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Thanks to all of you for responding. It's so helpful to have perspective from people who have been there. I realized this morning that I think I'm still in a bit of denial over this (again, the high-functioning mask really helped hide it). I have been saying "he's an alcoholic, but he's still sort of got it together". The reality is that both can't really be true. And I don't want to believe that he's given up on our marriage either, though realistically it's very low on his list right now.
This is his first real attempt at getting sober, since during the others I don't think he had truly admitted he was an alcoholic, and he's never made it this long. I truly believe I should be gracious here and understand why he's reacting the way he is, and give him space to heal if he's willing to really work it. It wasn't unbearable to live with him, since he was at work so much anyhow and had times of being really fun and nice. However, the fact that he feels he needs to leave but wants to be friends, and split off his own checking account, makes me feel like I may not be able to allow him that time and be supportive (i.e., patient, and in communication with him during his ups/downs). Do healing spouses continue to put themselves in the situation? It doesn't feel like a healthy arrangement, but I'm open to it...just don't want to be an enabler.
He hasn't told ANYONE about his move, and he wants the kids to keep it quiet at school so rumors don't start (again, concern about his job)...at first I was okay with this since our kids had other outlets to vent with other friends. Now I'm thinking it's just another enabling activity allowing him to not face the reality he is choosing. Does anyone have thoughts on that?
Lastly, I have concluded that when we reconvene to discuss our "arrangement", I need to let him know that since he recognizes he is not well, he needs to take every free moment to work on himself and work a program, and that he can't expect to have the kids with him through it. That he can see them some to do fun things, but no responsibility with them. He will view this as me trying to take control and will likely get very angry (especially because "I'm not drinking and I'm seeing more clearly than ever before--I am a good father").
That leads to my last fear--right now he has a separate checking account, but everything else we have is joint. I no longer trust him and wonder if in anger he would do something that hurts me financially. I don't think he'll go quietly when it comes to the kids, so I will need to fight, but this is a place I don't think I should budge. It makes me sad, because I'm going to contact a lawyer this week to find out my options/rights...but I don't want a divorce, I just want to control my half of our lives.
This is his first real attempt at getting sober, since during the others I don't think he had truly admitted he was an alcoholic, and he's never made it this long. I truly believe I should be gracious here and understand why he's reacting the way he is, and give him space to heal if he's willing to really work it. It wasn't unbearable to live with him, since he was at work so much anyhow and had times of being really fun and nice. However, the fact that he feels he needs to leave but wants to be friends, and split off his own checking account, makes me feel like I may not be able to allow him that time and be supportive (i.e., patient, and in communication with him during his ups/downs). Do healing spouses continue to put themselves in the situation? It doesn't feel like a healthy arrangement, but I'm open to it...just don't want to be an enabler.
He hasn't told ANYONE about his move, and he wants the kids to keep it quiet at school so rumors don't start (again, concern about his job)...at first I was okay with this since our kids had other outlets to vent with other friends. Now I'm thinking it's just another enabling activity allowing him to not face the reality he is choosing. Does anyone have thoughts on that?
Lastly, I have concluded that when we reconvene to discuss our "arrangement", I need to let him know that since he recognizes he is not well, he needs to take every free moment to work on himself and work a program, and that he can't expect to have the kids with him through it. That he can see them some to do fun things, but no responsibility with them. He will view this as me trying to take control and will likely get very angry (especially because "I'm not drinking and I'm seeing more clearly than ever before--I am a good father").
That leads to my last fear--right now he has a separate checking account, but everything else we have is joint. I no longer trust him and wonder if in anger he would do something that hurts me financially. I don't think he'll go quietly when it comes to the kids, so I will need to fight, but this is a place I don't think I should budge. It makes me sad, because I'm going to contact a lawyer this week to find out my options/rights...but I don't want a divorce, I just want to control my half of our lives.
peaceful seabird
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: floating
Posts: 4,822
I think meeting with a lawyer is a good idea.
I had a lot of questions about my rights as the wife of an alcoholic. I had two free consultations with two different lawyers. I got two different outcomes from those consultations.
Getting the information about the laws, guidelines, and common rulings for my area helped me to make healthy decisions for myself and my children.
Do your research to get the information you need. Even if you do not get divorced, it will help you understand your rights. Understanding your rights can protect you from being bullied or manipulated into an arrangement that is not in your best interest.
I had a lot of questions about my rights as the wife of an alcoholic. I had two free consultations with two different lawyers. I got two different outcomes from those consultations.
Getting the information about the laws, guidelines, and common rulings for my area helped me to make healthy decisions for myself and my children.
Do your research to get the information you need. Even if you do not get divorced, it will help you understand your rights. Understanding your rights can protect you from being bullied or manipulated into an arrangement that is not in your best interest.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Talking with a lawyer is great - you don't have to do anything but listen. It does give peace of mind, too, to know your rights.
He hasn't been sober long. Sure, he may see "more clearly" now, but he still has a long way to go. If you've been reading a lot, have you read about the physiology of alcohol on the brain? It could be a few years before he is truly thinking clearly and the brain has healed.
Unfortunately, if he wants to go, he can go. But the keeping things secret is part of the addiction. You see it - he thinks its a protective thing but its not, it's shame.
Since he is playing the "you're controlling!" card, I'd suggest backing off as far as possible and staying out of target range. Trust me - having gotten that same crap flung at me multiple times - it is not something you can overcome until he chooses to give it up. It's a tactic people use to manipulate others, and it works. Truth is, its all a projection on his part - he's the controlling one - and no amount of arguing, debating, or rational conversation will change his perspective until he comes to his own conclusion, if ever.
Sorry to sound hopeless...I don't think its ever hopeless, but my experience over the last few years is that once they are rooted in the blame-game with us, it rarely ends on a positive note.
Keep taking care of yourself. I know it sounds trite right now, but it is very important.
~T
He hasn't been sober long. Sure, he may see "more clearly" now, but he still has a long way to go. If you've been reading a lot, have you read about the physiology of alcohol on the brain? It could be a few years before he is truly thinking clearly and the brain has healed.
Unfortunately, if he wants to go, he can go. But the keeping things secret is part of the addiction. You see it - he thinks its a protective thing but its not, it's shame.
Since he is playing the "you're controlling!" card, I'd suggest backing off as far as possible and staying out of target range. Trust me - having gotten that same crap flung at me multiple times - it is not something you can overcome until he chooses to give it up. It's a tactic people use to manipulate others, and it works. Truth is, its all a projection on his part - he's the controlling one - and no amount of arguing, debating, or rational conversation will change his perspective until he comes to his own conclusion, if ever.
Sorry to sound hopeless...I don't think its ever hopeless, but my experience over the last few years is that once they are rooted in the blame-game with us, it rarely ends on a positive note.
Keep taking care of yourself. I know it sounds trite right now, but it is very important.
~T
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
I would only add that being hyper critical verbally IS abuse. It's effects are long lasting and very difficult to heal from.
I used to blame the abuse on the alcohol. I was wrong. Please look into verbal abuse.
I used to blame the abuse on the alcohol. I was wrong. Please look into verbal abuse.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 696
Well. Im not going to say your's is exactly like mine. But listen to mine and take what you want and leave the rest...
My XAH. went to a 28 day rehab center. Yep, he got sober. Yep, he loved me and wanted our marriage, family to work out
He came home from the rehab, went to AA a couple of times a day/night
Less than 3 weeks later. He packed up and moved 2000 miles away
Said he had too, because of a job. But yet....we owned a business together
He left with a suitcase of clothes
As he drove off he cried and called me the entire way there, telling me how much
he loved me
Within weeks, I could hear his drinking voice. The credit card bills began to
roll in like wild fire. He began to break stocks/bonds. He opened up a new check book
He went on buying sprees online
*It took my accountant to literally yank my arm, to wake me up,to reality of what
was really going on........"My husband would of never done that!!!!!"
The amount of damage that he did on paper including $.....Would blow your mind!!
........"My husband would of never done that!!!!!"
As time went on, it got worse. He began to drink more and more. By the end
of the year, he was drinking 1 gallon of whiskey/vodka every 2 days
I filed for divorce with 2 months of him leaving. At first, I did it to protect my
financial matters, my home and etc.....Had too!! ....He was so out of control!!
*which, i didnt do soon enough, because im now paying for some of it*
I should of done it the day he left....*Ugh!
Now, 2 years later...
I asked him early on "Why did you leave me?"
He said, "I had to have/take that job"
Now,.......I ask him Why did you leave me? and when he repeated his answer to me...
I now reply with, "B.S You left, because you were NOT done drinking!!!!"
Now, he replies with, "yeah, your probably right"
Take what you want and leave the rest
My XAH. went to a 28 day rehab center. Yep, he got sober. Yep, he loved me and wanted our marriage, family to work out
He came home from the rehab, went to AA a couple of times a day/night
Less than 3 weeks later. He packed up and moved 2000 miles away
Said he had too, because of a job. But yet....we owned a business together
He left with a suitcase of clothes
As he drove off he cried and called me the entire way there, telling me how much
he loved me
Within weeks, I could hear his drinking voice. The credit card bills began to
roll in like wild fire. He began to break stocks/bonds. He opened up a new check book
He went on buying sprees online
*It took my accountant to literally yank my arm, to wake me up,to reality of what
was really going on........"My husband would of never done that!!!!!"
The amount of damage that he did on paper including $.....Would blow your mind!!
........"My husband would of never done that!!!!!"
As time went on, it got worse. He began to drink more and more. By the end
of the year, he was drinking 1 gallon of whiskey/vodka every 2 days
I filed for divorce with 2 months of him leaving. At first, I did it to protect my
financial matters, my home and etc.....Had too!! ....He was so out of control!!
*which, i didnt do soon enough, because im now paying for some of it*
I should of done it the day he left....*Ugh!
Now, 2 years later...
I asked him early on "Why did you leave me?"
He said, "I had to have/take that job"
Now,.......I ask him Why did you leave me? and when he repeated his answer to me...
I now reply with, "B.S You left, because you were NOT done drinking!!!!"
Now, he replies with, "yeah, your probably right"
Take what you want and leave the rest
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 696
Remember....They cant take care of themselves
let alone make good financial decisions
If anyone in this world is going to look out for you...and your best interest
It's going to be you!!!.........Not, him or anyone else
That's how I ended up in the mess that I am in.....I thought HE was going to do that for me.........Buzzz...wrong answer
let alone make good financial decisions
If anyone in this world is going to look out for you...and your best interest
It's going to be you!!!.........Not, him or anyone else
That's how I ended up in the mess that I am in.....I thought HE was going to do that for me.........Buzzz...wrong answer
Member
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 696
One more question: Why are you allowing to hide this from his family/friends?
Rumors:? - To me, that sounds like his problem not yours!!!!!
I know for me, once the truth come out and I was done protecting/hiding
his rumors/stories.....It helped free me, It helped in so many ways I cant even
describe it. I found truth in me....
I let him lay in those rumor piles....They werent mine to lay in.
You know the story, pee in your bed, you can lay in your bed
Some where...it has to be about YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The sneaky lies, manlipulation....makes me vomit to this day!!!
Ummm, have you checked to see if there is another woman in this story?
Not to freak you, but you might want to keep your mouth shut and do some
investigating......He's hiding something...drinking, woman, gambling, porn
Im not married to your husband...but I sure in the heck dont buy his story!
Rumors:? - To me, that sounds like his problem not yours!!!!!
I know for me, once the truth come out and I was done protecting/hiding
his rumors/stories.....It helped free me, It helped in so many ways I cant even
describe it. I found truth in me....
I let him lay in those rumor piles....They werent mine to lay in.
You know the story, pee in your bed, you can lay in your bed
Some where...it has to be about YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The sneaky lies, manlipulation....makes me vomit to this day!!!
Ummm, have you checked to see if there is another woman in this story?
Not to freak you, but you might want to keep your mouth shut and do some
investigating......He's hiding something...drinking, woman, gambling, porn
Im not married to your husband...but I sure in the heck dont buy his story!
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 78
I think I'm married to your AH's twin brother, right down to the separate checking account.
I found the Getting Them Sober book to be really helpful. Have you gone to an Alanon meeting yet? There is a place where you can tell people and get support for what has happened to you and your kids. I'm planning on getting counseling for myself and kids and then I'll have a counselor in place if/when my AH actually makes it through recovery. It's always helpful to have a Plan B in place in case your marriage doesn't survive.
There are also a bunch a great articles by Peggy Ferguson about marriage and recovery.
I found the Getting Them Sober book to be really helpful. Have you gone to an Alanon meeting yet? There is a place where you can tell people and get support for what has happened to you and your kids. I'm planning on getting counseling for myself and kids and then I'll have a counselor in place if/when my AH actually makes it through recovery. It's always helpful to have a Plan B in place in case your marriage doesn't survive.
There are also a bunch a great articles by Peggy Ferguson about marriage and recovery.
Last edited by Seren; 12-01-2012 at 02:01 PM. Reason: Link removed, SR Rule One.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New England
Posts: 350
I very much agree that seeing a lawyer is a good idea. You can learn your rights and obligations (not the ones you put on yourself, but the actual ones), financially and with regard to the children. I think (and this is why you should talk to a lawyer!) that you might want to consider opening a separate account in your name only so that if something really bad happens, you are not wiped out financially.
Have you heard of a book called 'The Gaslight Effect: How to Spot and Survive the Hidden Manipulation Others Use to Control Your Life?' It's by a Dr. Robin Stern, and I found it very helpful in learning to act differently in response to verbal abuse and emotional manipulation. And make no mistake about it, hyper-critical verbal attacks ARE verbal abuse. It almost doesn't matter what the reasons are for his behavior. What really matters is how you take care of yourself and your kids.
Keep coming back - people here truly understand and support you.
Take care.
Have you heard of a book called 'The Gaslight Effect: How to Spot and Survive the Hidden Manipulation Others Use to Control Your Life?' It's by a Dr. Robin Stern, and I found it very helpful in learning to act differently in response to verbal abuse and emotional manipulation. And make no mistake about it, hyper-critical verbal attacks ARE verbal abuse. It almost doesn't matter what the reasons are for his behavior. What really matters is how you take care of yourself and your kids.
Keep coming back - people here truly understand and support you.
Take care.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
No other woman...though believe me at times I've wondered, because they say a man never leaves a relationship unless he has someone else. He's not really leaving though, just halfway leaving since he wants me to remain his best friend. (confusing) He is a good Christian man (and an sobering alcoholic, yes I hear myself).
I'd love to hear if there are any good stories of people pulling through this? I firmly believe in sticking with it if there's a chance, and I know he likely cannot make sense right now so early in sobriety...so I choose to forgive and let the comments he makes slide to push me away right now. I have not been that forgiving in our 20 years, which has led to bitterness on both sides. The difference is that we both found our HP a couple of years ago, and I've realized how to forgive, let it go, and change my behavior to stop the game (which he notices). He is using his HP to help finally become sober, which is the most important thing...but I struggle to understand how he can hold so much bitterness and anger in his heart for me while connecting so much with HP to change himself.
He is away now, so maybe we can both heal. Hopefully he's working on it. He says he's trying to learn to be joyous and gracious, and isn't sure if he'll ever get there.
I'm hanging out with my kids today. I know it's typical, but even as I'm thinking this may be the end I still miss AH. However, I've done things with the kids that I haven't in a while out of the energy I was focusing on avoiding his anger...and we're having fun. I am realizing how on edge I became at the end as I tried to be the best to him...and that in some ways my kids suffered because it took too much energy. I am a very optimistic, happy go lucky person and always had lots of laughs...today I let the kids know that their happy mom would be back. I lost it last week over a minor food spill...so this week I created a plate for each of us and we dumped them all together and laughed. Then we made our real plates and my son mistakenly dumped it again...it was hilarious!
Whether I leave him now or later, or he leaves me later (unless of course there's a financial blow-up), I don't think it matters. 20 years in says I can afford a little more to see if he makes it. It sounds like I'll know when I can't do it anymore...though I admit I have some moments like that.
We meet Monday evening to discuss our "arrangement" and how it might work. If he blindsides me there with things he said he'd do and won't... hopefully that's not an issue, but I'm setting my heart up for it as a possibility.
I'd love to hear if there are any good stories of people pulling through this? I firmly believe in sticking with it if there's a chance, and I know he likely cannot make sense right now so early in sobriety...so I choose to forgive and let the comments he makes slide to push me away right now. I have not been that forgiving in our 20 years, which has led to bitterness on both sides. The difference is that we both found our HP a couple of years ago, and I've realized how to forgive, let it go, and change my behavior to stop the game (which he notices). He is using his HP to help finally become sober, which is the most important thing...but I struggle to understand how he can hold so much bitterness and anger in his heart for me while connecting so much with HP to change himself.
He is away now, so maybe we can both heal. Hopefully he's working on it. He says he's trying to learn to be joyous and gracious, and isn't sure if he'll ever get there.
I'm hanging out with my kids today. I know it's typical, but even as I'm thinking this may be the end I still miss AH. However, I've done things with the kids that I haven't in a while out of the energy I was focusing on avoiding his anger...and we're having fun. I am realizing how on edge I became at the end as I tried to be the best to him...and that in some ways my kids suffered because it took too much energy. I am a very optimistic, happy go lucky person and always had lots of laughs...today I let the kids know that their happy mom would be back. I lost it last week over a minor food spill...so this week I created a plate for each of us and we dumped them all together and laughed. Then we made our real plates and my son mistakenly dumped it again...it was hilarious!
Whether I leave him now or later, or he leaves me later (unless of course there's a financial blow-up), I don't think it matters. 20 years in says I can afford a little more to see if he makes it. It sounds like I'll know when I can't do it anymore...though I admit I have some moments like that.
We meet Monday evening to discuss our "arrangement" and how it might work. If he blindsides me there with things he said he'd do and won't... hopefully that's not an issue, but I'm setting my heart up for it as a possibility.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
Praying, as I've read and re-read your posts, I am confused.
I hear a lot of ambivalence about what is the meaning of his different behaviors. In some instances, you see him as behaving in contradictory ways.
For example "he's never been abusive to the kids, though he has patches of hyper-critical verbal attacks." (This IS verbal abuse, and often the consequences of verbal abuse are worse than physical abuse.) Also, he is someone "whose word I no longer trust (which is very sad, as he's very trustworthy)."
Your most recent post is different. You are observing and talking about actual behavior. When your AH is away, you and your kids are free, laughing, joking, and happy. You are all playing! With joy!
This is very different than the atmosphere you describe when your AH is home.
Perhaps instead of continuing to try to interpret your AH's behavior and label it, it would be more helpful to just look at the facts. Forget thinking about why anyone did anything, what their motive was, all of that.
Just who did what, and what was the result?
The first one is that when your AH leaves for several days or more, you and your kids get happy.
Alcoholics say all kinds of things; they create environments of chaos and turmoil and drama. I think you have been very caught up in being part of that, analyzing it, assigning meaning to each up and down; in short, you have been whirling about emotionally within the turbulence of the alcoholic hurricane.
What I would love to hear more about is what YOU want. For you. For your kids. Forget him. He's toast in this exercise. What do YOU want your life to look like, feel like? What do you want to be? What environment do you need to be who you are? And the same thought process as the mother of your kids. What do they need? What environment will best nurture them?
Then, when you've really sorted this out, you'll know the basis on which to make the next right decision. Not the final decision, just the next right decision.
Without the grounding of thinking through who we are and who we want and need to be, (and the same for our kids), we're just straws blown hither and thither by the power of the alcoholic's emotional hurricane.
HE doesn't get to control what happens to all of you; he's an alcoholic and not capable of comprehending what anyone else needs. It isn't even clear to me that he is actually sober, let alone in recovery.
He wants you to keep actions within the alcoholic boundary of denial. For example, he "needs" time alone and "needs" his own place, but you must not tell anyone to "protect" his job. None of that is open, honest, rational behavior. If he needs it, he has to own his decision to get it.
Decisions need to be made based on what is reasonable and best and just and nurturing. Setting boundaries means making your best choice, your best decision now, the next right step, and sticking to it. He can't do that, so either it won't get done, or you'll have to take it on.
ShootingStar1
I hear a lot of ambivalence about what is the meaning of his different behaviors. In some instances, you see him as behaving in contradictory ways.
For example "he's never been abusive to the kids, though he has patches of hyper-critical verbal attacks." (This IS verbal abuse, and often the consequences of verbal abuse are worse than physical abuse.) Also, he is someone "whose word I no longer trust (which is very sad, as he's very trustworthy)."
Your most recent post is different. You are observing and talking about actual behavior. When your AH is away, you and your kids are free, laughing, joking, and happy. You are all playing! With joy!
This is very different than the atmosphere you describe when your AH is home.
Perhaps instead of continuing to try to interpret your AH's behavior and label it, it would be more helpful to just look at the facts. Forget thinking about why anyone did anything, what their motive was, all of that.
Just who did what, and what was the result?
The first one is that when your AH leaves for several days or more, you and your kids get happy.
Alcoholics say all kinds of things; they create environments of chaos and turmoil and drama. I think you have been very caught up in being part of that, analyzing it, assigning meaning to each up and down; in short, you have been whirling about emotionally within the turbulence of the alcoholic hurricane.
What I would love to hear more about is what YOU want. For you. For your kids. Forget him. He's toast in this exercise. What do YOU want your life to look like, feel like? What do you want to be? What environment do you need to be who you are? And the same thought process as the mother of your kids. What do they need? What environment will best nurture them?
Then, when you've really sorted this out, you'll know the basis on which to make the next right decision. Not the final decision, just the next right decision.
Without the grounding of thinking through who we are and who we want and need to be, (and the same for our kids), we're just straws blown hither and thither by the power of the alcoholic's emotional hurricane.
HE doesn't get to control what happens to all of you; he's an alcoholic and not capable of comprehending what anyone else needs. It isn't even clear to me that he is actually sober, let alone in recovery.
He wants you to keep actions within the alcoholic boundary of denial. For example, he "needs" time alone and "needs" his own place, but you must not tell anyone to "protect" his job. None of that is open, honest, rational behavior. If he needs it, he has to own his decision to get it.
Decisions need to be made based on what is reasonable and best and just and nurturing. Setting boundaries means making your best choice, your best decision now, the next right step, and sticking to it. He can't do that, so either it won't get done, or you'll have to take it on.
ShootingStar1
Guest
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,826
I say tell him to take the time to get himself together and YOU take the time to get yourself together. Why do you want to be with someone you don/t trust
Originally Posted by Praying
Hi all,
I'm married almost 20 years to a super high functioning alcoholic who can work, etc. without anyone knowing, who never gets sick, etc., but can down a fifth of gin in no time, and has for years. I knew he chose alcohol over me for years, but thought it was a choice for a long time because he didn't have issues other than anger toward me. Only recently did I realize how deep it went, even though he's had several failed attempts to quit. He's so successful, it kills him that this is the ONE THING he can't control in his life. We moved a year ago to an entirely new state, left friends and family, because he thought it would be good for him and we agreed to work on our marriage, which had become distant emotionally. Two kids in the mix.
Fast forward-- no effort on his part, same behavior patterns and anger/resentment toward me, new addition of complete physical withdrawal as well. I tried several times to break out of it, but the hurt just turned me off again. Finally, with God's help several months ago I was able to truly work through the steps myself and face the ways I've continued to prolong this "anger/resentment dance" by not breaking out of it myself. After soul-searching and working through it, I gave him a letter explaining all the ways I had failed through the years and how I was going to change. All me-messages, nothing about him.
His response was in a long hurtful letter, focused on "that's nice, but I've moved on emotionally and don't have feelings for you". Painful! But the new me didn't fall back into the old ways and kept at my changes. VERY hard few months, prayed constantly and learned to forgive constantly to stay on my path...all along with comments like "if you can do this, where was it for the last x years?" I have remained gracious, journaling and saving my negative responses for myself.
He has recognized that I'm a different woman...and it just seems to have pushed him further away...he is angry with me for stuff from a decade ago. If it was so bad, why didn't he leave me then? He says he's not ready to change the way I want him to, and I remind him I'm not asking him to change, but he doesn't believe it. I think it's internal pressure.
He has grown increasingly uncomfortable around me, and even though he hasn't had a drop to drink in 16 weeks, and is in constant contact with God, he doesn't seem to be recovering. He isn't working steps, and is afraid to go to AA because someone might find out and he'd get hurt professionally. He plans to do this through a counselor. (One question--does that work? I really think he needs the steps, as his anger/resentment/fear go way deeper than me, even though he pins most of it on me.) His mind is clear in a way it hasn't been before, but he has been trying to leave me now. We could both be financially independent, so that's not an issue. But I know this man is a good man, and his actions are confusing. He has done so much in the last two months to hurt me, and I continue to forgive him. (I never would have imagined I could be like this.)
This week when I left town on a business trip he sent me an email saying he rented a place, opened his own checking account, and was moving out. Yet he says he doesn't want to lose me as his best friend and doesn't want a divorce-- just needs space to work on himself. Then he told the kids before I came home, assuming they'd spend 50% time with each of us. Even though I know how this alcoholism thing works, it still floors me. Where is his mind? Seems all over. I recognize he's a dry drunk right now, but I don't think he realizes he is, or that he's contradicting himself.
Sometimes I think he's just jerking me around because he really is done with our marriage, but mostly I think he really is lost and just trying to act on his feelings toward me too soon, which are conflicting. But every time he says he's being honest with me, another shoe drops and he hits me with something else incredibly hurtful. Then says he's sorry-- but never clarifies what for, and the behavior doesn't change.
For whatever reason, God is giving me patience to stay in this and I think telling me to let it ride for a while... but if he wants me to be a part of his life I feel I need to set some boundaries. However, that's really hard with someone who is all over the place and whose word I no longer trust (which is very sad, as he's very trustworthy). Any advice or experiences to share?
I'm married almost 20 years to a super high functioning alcoholic who can work, etc. without anyone knowing, who never gets sick, etc., but can down a fifth of gin in no time, and has for years. I knew he chose alcohol over me for years, but thought it was a choice for a long time because he didn't have issues other than anger toward me. Only recently did I realize how deep it went, even though he's had several failed attempts to quit. He's so successful, it kills him that this is the ONE THING he can't control in his life. We moved a year ago to an entirely new state, left friends and family, because he thought it would be good for him and we agreed to work on our marriage, which had become distant emotionally. Two kids in the mix.
Fast forward-- no effort on his part, same behavior patterns and anger/resentment toward me, new addition of complete physical withdrawal as well. I tried several times to break out of it, but the hurt just turned me off again. Finally, with God's help several months ago I was able to truly work through the steps myself and face the ways I've continued to prolong this "anger/resentment dance" by not breaking out of it myself. After soul-searching and working through it, I gave him a letter explaining all the ways I had failed through the years and how I was going to change. All me-messages, nothing about him.
His response was in a long hurtful letter, focused on "that's nice, but I've moved on emotionally and don't have feelings for you". Painful! But the new me didn't fall back into the old ways and kept at my changes. VERY hard few months, prayed constantly and learned to forgive constantly to stay on my path...all along with comments like "if you can do this, where was it for the last x years?" I have remained gracious, journaling and saving my negative responses for myself.
He has recognized that I'm a different woman...and it just seems to have pushed him further away...he is angry with me for stuff from a decade ago. If it was so bad, why didn't he leave me then? He says he's not ready to change the way I want him to, and I remind him I'm not asking him to change, but he doesn't believe it. I think it's internal pressure.
He has grown increasingly uncomfortable around me, and even though he hasn't had a drop to drink in 16 weeks, and is in constant contact with God, he doesn't seem to be recovering. He isn't working steps, and is afraid to go to AA because someone might find out and he'd get hurt professionally. He plans to do this through a counselor. (One question--does that work? I really think he needs the steps, as his anger/resentment/fear go way deeper than me, even though he pins most of it on me.) His mind is clear in a way it hasn't been before, but he has been trying to leave me now. We could both be financially independent, so that's not an issue. But I know this man is a good man, and his actions are confusing. He has done so much in the last two months to hurt me, and I continue to forgive him. (I never would have imagined I could be like this.)
This week when I left town on a business trip he sent me an email saying he rented a place, opened his own checking account, and was moving out. Yet he says he doesn't want to lose me as his best friend and doesn't want a divorce-- just needs space to work on himself. Then he told the kids before I came home, assuming they'd spend 50% time with each of us. Even though I know how this alcoholism thing works, it still floors me. Where is his mind? Seems all over. I recognize he's a dry drunk right now, but I don't think he realizes he is, or that he's contradicting himself.
Sometimes I think he's just jerking me around because he really is done with our marriage, but mostly I think he really is lost and just trying to act on his feelings toward me too soon, which are conflicting. But every time he says he's being honest with me, another shoe drops and he hits me with something else incredibly hurtful. Then says he's sorry-- but never clarifies what for, and the behavior doesn't change.
For whatever reason, God is giving me patience to stay in this and I think telling me to let it ride for a while... but if he wants me to be a part of his life I feel I need to set some boundaries. However, that's really hard with someone who is all over the place and whose word I no longer trust (which is very sad, as he's very trustworthy). Any advice or experiences to share?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 786
Thanks all. I did think long and hard 6 months ago about whether to leave or stay, realized that I don't want separate lives and need to change some things in me to help break our cycle. Same time he started changing things in him, but for some reason, even though he knows I've been "gracious, patient, generous, and forgiving" (his words), he said being around me stresses him out and he needs space. Sometimes he says because of his "imminent failures" he can't afford to bring his family down with him. He says I deserve better.
I asked him if he no longer wanted a relationship with me, and he said no, he doesn't want that. Interestingly, his "leaving" behaviors all come via email and sting (frustrating after 20 years), and when I talk to him he says he is confused and just needs space, but doesn't want a divorce. He seems truthful. I've asked the counselor if she believes him. He'll tear up and say "I never said I didn't want to spend time with you", "you're my best friend" and things like that. He loves our family and wants to have family game nights, etc. This is where the trust issue arises-- it's been one thing after the other over the last six weeks as he's been trying to leave. Say one thing, blindside with email or actions that don't match up, many very, very hurtful. He wasn't this way as an active alcoholic, which is why it's so confusing after 16 weeks sobriety.
I have told him I don't feel like he's even my friend right now, because friends are supportive, emotionally connected, etc...my best friend answers the phone at 1am when I call crying. Perhaps I'm his comfort zone or best companion. He doesn't really have "friends".
What do I want? I want him to come back, to be whole, and to have the family life we enjoyed, understandably changed because he'll be a different person (who I guess I don't even know). I know that's unrealistic right now. But if he'll become ready for a real relationship, I want it to be with me.
Selfishly, I don't want to lose time with my kids either...I'm thinking, this is HIS issue, and if he refuses to fix it or be with me, why should my life with my kids change?
But I think it's unhealthy to keep them from him either (for them). My 10 year old is very emotional today (rightly so). He just doesn't understand it. It breaks my heart to watch them hurt. Makes me wish that if the outcome is separation, one of us (I guess me) had done something years ago when they wouldn't have noticed so much. I recognize I can't look back like that.
If I can't have what I want, then I know I'll be happy without him someday as I am emotionally well except for this relationship's effects on my life. I know I will make it, and I know I deserve better. I can imagine a future life with someone else at some point, though MILES down the road. It would be easier if I were still self-righteous and hadn't worked through that...because the "me" of a year ago would have been eager to see him go and moved on...though with a heart full of anger and resentment (not the best scenario).
Am I supposed to not make any major decisions until I've figured myself out more? (Am going to a live meeting Monday. He has been afraid of me going because someone might recognize me and got really mad when I talked to someone about attending a few weeks ago. I am going anyway now, because it doesn't matter if I try to keep him happy.)
The hard part for me is the waiting. I recognize fully that I'm waiting on at least...
1) an alcoholic who is 16 weeks dry to continue on a path of sobriety
2) him to achieve true healing and release his anger/resentment, achieve joy/gratitude
3) him to be strong enough to enter any relationship
4) him to be strong enough for that to be with me
5) him to decide to WANT it with me
6) me to be in the right space if that time ever comes
That's a stack of expectations that takes a lot of time to find out. I know I can't have expectations either, as I'm learning that these only make me disappointed and sad...so the key is to let them go.
Please keep your thoughts coming, they are VERY helpful. Sometimes we need to be told that we're idiots.
I asked him if he no longer wanted a relationship with me, and he said no, he doesn't want that. Interestingly, his "leaving" behaviors all come via email and sting (frustrating after 20 years), and when I talk to him he says he is confused and just needs space, but doesn't want a divorce. He seems truthful. I've asked the counselor if she believes him. He'll tear up and say "I never said I didn't want to spend time with you", "you're my best friend" and things like that. He loves our family and wants to have family game nights, etc. This is where the trust issue arises-- it's been one thing after the other over the last six weeks as he's been trying to leave. Say one thing, blindside with email or actions that don't match up, many very, very hurtful. He wasn't this way as an active alcoholic, which is why it's so confusing after 16 weeks sobriety.
I have told him I don't feel like he's even my friend right now, because friends are supportive, emotionally connected, etc...my best friend answers the phone at 1am when I call crying. Perhaps I'm his comfort zone or best companion. He doesn't really have "friends".
What do I want? I want him to come back, to be whole, and to have the family life we enjoyed, understandably changed because he'll be a different person (who I guess I don't even know). I know that's unrealistic right now. But if he'll become ready for a real relationship, I want it to be with me.
Selfishly, I don't want to lose time with my kids either...I'm thinking, this is HIS issue, and if he refuses to fix it or be with me, why should my life with my kids change?
But I think it's unhealthy to keep them from him either (for them). My 10 year old is very emotional today (rightly so). He just doesn't understand it. It breaks my heart to watch them hurt. Makes me wish that if the outcome is separation, one of us (I guess me) had done something years ago when they wouldn't have noticed so much. I recognize I can't look back like that.
If I can't have what I want, then I know I'll be happy without him someday as I am emotionally well except for this relationship's effects on my life. I know I will make it, and I know I deserve better. I can imagine a future life with someone else at some point, though MILES down the road. It would be easier if I were still self-righteous and hadn't worked through that...because the "me" of a year ago would have been eager to see him go and moved on...though with a heart full of anger and resentment (not the best scenario).
Am I supposed to not make any major decisions until I've figured myself out more? (Am going to a live meeting Monday. He has been afraid of me going because someone might recognize me and got really mad when I talked to someone about attending a few weeks ago. I am going anyway now, because it doesn't matter if I try to keep him happy.)
The hard part for me is the waiting. I recognize fully that I'm waiting on at least...
1) an alcoholic who is 16 weeks dry to continue on a path of sobriety
2) him to achieve true healing and release his anger/resentment, achieve joy/gratitude
3) him to be strong enough to enter any relationship
4) him to be strong enough for that to be with me
5) him to decide to WANT it with me
6) me to be in the right space if that time ever comes
That's a stack of expectations that takes a lot of time to find out. I know I can't have expectations either, as I'm learning that these only make me disappointed and sad...so the key is to let them go.
Please keep your thoughts coming, they are VERY helpful. Sometimes we need to be told that we're idiots.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: New England
Posts: 350
You're not an idiot. Delete that thought from your mental file!!
It's entirely possible that he's blowing hot-and-cold because he's trying to deal with his own feelings of guilt. He could also still be totally in the delusional alcoholic frame of mind. You know what, though? That's HIS stuff - let's leave him to it.
I hear you about how hard it is to see your son in pain and confusion. I absolutely understand wanting to remove pain from people I love, but please remember that the best thing you can do for him is not to remove that pain but to help him learn to respond to it in a healthy way. Pain is part of life. I hate that it is so, but it is.
Nothing has to be decided today.
We're here for you!
It's entirely possible that he's blowing hot-and-cold because he's trying to deal with his own feelings of guilt. He could also still be totally in the delusional alcoholic frame of mind. You know what, though? That's HIS stuff - let's leave him to it.
I hear you about how hard it is to see your son in pain and confusion. I absolutely understand wanting to remove pain from people I love, but please remember that the best thing you can do for him is not to remove that pain but to help him learn to respond to it in a healthy way. Pain is part of life. I hate that it is so, but it is.
Nothing has to be decided today.
We're here for you!
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