Update and progress...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
First of all let me express my empathy for this impossible situation you are in.
Your posts are incredibly thoughtful and detailed, and it is clear that you are struggling with acceptance. You are fighting a good fight. However, and I say this with love and care, it seems like part you still believes there is something you can do to control her drinking and her behavioir, and that you are still just trying to work out the right formula.
That is an unsolvable mystery, my friend. There is no formula. There is no missing puzzle piece that will make the jigsaw come together the way you want it to. I hope you can find a way to relieve yourself of the burden of trying to figure it out, and move forward one day at a time with just the pieces you have in front of you.
I wish you the best and have every confidence you will find a way to navigate this troubling time.
Your posts are incredibly thoughtful and detailed, and it is clear that you are struggling with acceptance. You are fighting a good fight. However, and I say this with love and care, it seems like part you still believes there is something you can do to control her drinking and her behavioir, and that you are still just trying to work out the right formula.
That is an unsolvable mystery, my friend. There is no formula. There is no missing puzzle piece that will make the jigsaw come together the way you want it to. I hope you can find a way to relieve yourself of the burden of trying to figure it out, and move forward one day at a time with just the pieces you have in front of you.
I wish you the best and have every confidence you will find a way to navigate this troubling time.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
I would suggest reading the book "No More Letting Go: The Spirituality of Taking Action Against Alcoholism and Drug Addiction" by Debra Jay. See if it resonates with you and perhaps you'll take away some new thoughts.
I posted an excerpt on a new thread called "No More Letting Go". See what you think . . .
I posted an excerpt on a new thread called "No More Letting Go". See what you think . . .
Member
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Bristol TN/VA
Posts: 12,431
Here are 2 things that red flagged an eye roll from me:
You need medication but will not fill it or take it so that your wife will not get into them. You are not treating your physical condition in the manner your physician wants you to.
You are compromising your finances by not doing the business things you planned and need to. Will you be able to pick up this opportunity again at any time you need to or choose to. Money isn't everything. I tend to underestimate it's importance and sadly have and am reaping the consequences of that. You are doing this to police your wife or buy time. I suggest you look into finding caregivers for your son and daughter so that you have a backup plan in place.
Eye rolls from here just usually indicate a deja vu.
You need medication but will not fill it or take it so that your wife will not get into them. You are not treating your physical condition in the manner your physician wants you to.
You are compromising your finances by not doing the business things you planned and need to. Will you be able to pick up this opportunity again at any time you need to or choose to. Money isn't everything. I tend to underestimate it's importance and sadly have and am reaping the consequences of that. You are doing this to police your wife or buy time. I suggest you look into finding caregivers for your son and daughter so that you have a backup plan in place.
Eye rolls from here just usually indicate a deja vu.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
I read your wife's responses to you as being the most manipulative sh** I have ever heard.
Wait, I have heard that sh** before! Right here in my house except here in my house its accompanied by imaginary violins playing.
Perhaps its time to call the bluff friend. Yes she knows how much you care and love her because she is still there and you have had every reason in the world to boot her out.
Wait, I have heard that sh** before! Right here in my house except here in my house its accompanied by imaginary violins playing.
Perhaps its time to call the bluff friend. Yes she knows how much you care and love her because she is still there and you have had every reason in the world to boot her out.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest, USA
Posts: 2,899
It's so confusing, especially when you're nose deep in it. That's why everyone advocates that we find a way to get some psychic space between us and the problem, because with the distance comes clarity.
Re: magical thinking. I was thinking of you all and SR last night because a friend that I'd long long touch with came to sleep on my couch after her husband got physical with her in a very explosive and scary way. It wasn't the first time. In fact, it had been brewing over a couple of years and each time is scarier and more violent than the last. My friend is smart, capable, a ******* warrior if you ask me, but she can't see the steps between where she is now and where she needs to be. Because she can't see what she can't see, she's back and forth between leaving him altogether and filing for divorce immediately, and this belief that if he just gets the right meds and a good counselor everything will be fine. Her choices are unimaginable change amidst a disappointing and scary situation she never wanted and didn't plan for, and hope. With hope, someone is going to get hurt. With action, she is saving herself and her child.
You just don't see what you don't see. When I read back through my own posts here (I have no prior experience with addiction either, mind you) I see a lot of denial, confusion, and magical thinking. I trusted my AH -- why wouldn't you trust your husband, after all?
The problem is that *my* husband was lying to me and using me as a beard for respectability and a roof over his head while he drank himself into a stupor. I did everything because I likened his disease to a bodily illness and wouldn't reckon with his alcoholic behavior and its consequences on my life in a straightforward and meaningful way. I was killing myself with my attempts at kindness and understanding, and my need to keep this together despite all the deep wounds. My expectations of what a marriage *should* be were screwing with my ability to understand what the reality of what my marriage actually was. It took a lot of time, a lot of hurt, and so many discovered lies and "slips" for me to deeply understand what people were saying to me here, and once I did, it was very clear what I had to do, even if it wasn't what I wanted and even if I had no idea how I was going to live after this.
I feel you. I'm in a similar situation. I have two kids by two dads who are in my custody, one of whom is under 2. I had to formula feed the baby because I didn't have the time and space to breastfeed. I had to recover from my C-section alone. I did the night feedings and the eventual return from maternity leave by myself. I relied on emotionally stunted family who I'd love to be rid of to help me make ends meet and make the logistics of two kids figure out. I had so many resentments around these things -- I still do to some degree -- but the reality now that my AH is not living here anymore is that our home life is stable, predictable, and much more relaxed without him here. I couldn't trust him, and that was the absolute fundamental piece of the whole marriage in the first place.
Re: magical thinking. I was thinking of you all and SR last night because a friend that I'd long long touch with came to sleep on my couch after her husband got physical with her in a very explosive and scary way. It wasn't the first time. In fact, it had been brewing over a couple of years and each time is scarier and more violent than the last. My friend is smart, capable, a ******* warrior if you ask me, but she can't see the steps between where she is now and where she needs to be. Because she can't see what she can't see, she's back and forth between leaving him altogether and filing for divorce immediately, and this belief that if he just gets the right meds and a good counselor everything will be fine. Her choices are unimaginable change amidst a disappointing and scary situation she never wanted and didn't plan for, and hope. With hope, someone is going to get hurt. With action, she is saving herself and her child.
You just don't see what you don't see. When I read back through my own posts here (I have no prior experience with addiction either, mind you) I see a lot of denial, confusion, and magical thinking. I trusted my AH -- why wouldn't you trust your husband, after all?
The problem is that *my* husband was lying to me and using me as a beard for respectability and a roof over his head while he drank himself into a stupor. I did everything because I likened his disease to a bodily illness and wouldn't reckon with his alcoholic behavior and its consequences on my life in a straightforward and meaningful way. I was killing myself with my attempts at kindness and understanding, and my need to keep this together despite all the deep wounds. My expectations of what a marriage *should* be were screwing with my ability to understand what the reality of what my marriage actually was. It took a lot of time, a lot of hurt, and so many discovered lies and "slips" for me to deeply understand what people were saying to me here, and once I did, it was very clear what I had to do, even if it wasn't what I wanted and even if I had no idea how I was going to live after this.
I feel you. I'm in a similar situation. I have two kids by two dads who are in my custody, one of whom is under 2. I had to formula feed the baby because I didn't have the time and space to breastfeed. I had to recover from my C-section alone. I did the night feedings and the eventual return from maternity leave by myself. I relied on emotionally stunted family who I'd love to be rid of to help me make ends meet and make the logistics of two kids figure out. I had so many resentments around these things -- I still do to some degree -- but the reality now that my AH is not living here anymore is that our home life is stable, predictable, and much more relaxed without him here. I couldn't trust him, and that was the absolute fundamental piece of the whole marriage in the first place.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
There's a saying that is carved on my heart: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. I suggest getting to many Alanon meetings, doing the Steps and getting a sponsor. God bless.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Thanks guys.
Bad day but one that reinforces my concerns. I sent her an email - I do that when I want to make sure I articulate exactly what I mean and don't leave any room for someone to misquote me not that it matters.
I went out of my way to tell her that I am not putting her down but it has been a month and she has not done anything about looking into rehab so I am setting an appointment for tomorrow. I asked a few things. I asked her to acknowledge that she knows I love her and just want to help. I asked her to tell me anything else I don't know and that it just doesn't seem plausible that I know it all. I promised no anger or judgment.
Mostly I told her that I am sad and worried and I don't like it when she talks about leaving or how someone with the disease would understand her better. I told her I know she is a good person and not a monster. I avoided blame but was clear that if she was deceiving me and her sponsor as therapist then nothing is going to help - she needs to be honest.
I guess it should not shock me but her response really did. She said she did not like getting beaten down - discussing it in any form is beating her down. After about a minute she turned to "I could bring up the things I am mad about from 8 months ago like x y and z but I don't. That one always makes me shake my head. She has said more than once that she could blame it on things I did 6 months ago buy she wouldn't do that! That is just so comical - getting in the guilt and shame shots to deflect.
It was nothing but guilt and retribution and criticism and contempt
She does not think rehab is needed but will go because I insist to make me feel better.
Bottom line is simple and she summed it up well - I can't believe anything she says because she can't promise she won't drink or tell the truth. Well, now there's a problem.
I might be able to live with that problem of she followed it by saying something that showed some semblance of remorse or concern but I got none, none whatsoever. She said she is sick of hearing that she is causing problems and I'm sad and how she has broken every promise she's made and crossed every boundary we agreed to... Then more guilt for my poor behavior more than 6 months ago despite her acknowledgment that once I committed I have not wavered or given her one reason to worry about my commitment.
Bottom line is that she have me no indication that she cares about what she has done or will do except that she doesn't like to be reminded. I was a thousand times more forgiving and understanding than she was when I made mistakes but no matter - I deserved it and guess still do whereas she should not have to address what she has done and make up for it.
So the question for the counselor is simple - she says she can't promise a different result yet she doesn't think she needs more help and I can't accept that because if I do then I am putting my son at risk and I made a choice to go throug this, he did not.
She said I should have just said we have an appointment and shut up. As much as her lack of regard for feelings other than her own infuriates me she has a point. She can't promise to be responsible or reasonable yet I am trying to reason with her.
It's about time I realize the obvious and treat this objectively before my feelings for her get someone hurt. The deflecting and blame/guilt nonsense used to really shame me into compliance and silence - now I just get annoyed because it is so predictable. I just pointed out the difference - I did not mke excuses or blame my bad behavior on her and I made amends and stuck to my commitment and she just won't take any accountability or show any remorse or even acknowledge that she's asking me to forget that she put our sons life in danger and accept her doing not one thing differently in the future when she can't promise it won't repeat and doesn't see any need for a different approach.
I've been really hurt that she doesn't seem to think I deserve the same things she expected and that no matter how many times we agree to put the past behind us she uses it as a shield and club every time she breaks a promise or does something damaging or otherwise does harm through her words or actions.
If she just could have shown a trace of remorse or regret instad of defiance as a determination to make this about me rather than accept my plea to work with me and face this together....
I know. If I was reading someone else write this I'd say don't take it personally, you won't get anything but attacked and blamed for expressing genuine concern no matter how kind or understanding or supportive you are. Ironically she says everything is all about me and that I'm too tough on her. Q-wahhhhh-k
Voices were getting louder and I was getting angry so I called timeout and went to work in the garage for a while, now she's at her meeting and I'm snuggling the munchkin.
I'm out of ideas and emotional energy. Will just tell the counselor I can't say whether she is telling the truth and I can't risk leaving her with the baby without some assurance that she's sober. So I will ask for drug testing and get a breathalyzer I guess and of I have to leave for work or go out of town then she'll get calls over FaceTime to test. If she won't take my offer to work together then I just have to treat her as an adversary I guess. This sucks
Fortunately little guy is the only concern, my dd is 17 and completely reliable and trustworthy.
Why oh why do they so hate the one person who loves them enough to forgive everything and keep trying to make thier life better?
Just disappointed right now, really hoped for some sign that she's sorry and appreciates the patience and concern. Nope ...I got eff you and a good beating instead. I'm glad I called timeout and walked away. This is not ok any more. How do you forgive someone who all but promises to do it again and blames you for it
Venting over- little man waking up.
I love my wife. I don't love feeling like a rug
Bad day but one that reinforces my concerns. I sent her an email - I do that when I want to make sure I articulate exactly what I mean and don't leave any room for someone to misquote me not that it matters.
I went out of my way to tell her that I am not putting her down but it has been a month and she has not done anything about looking into rehab so I am setting an appointment for tomorrow. I asked a few things. I asked her to acknowledge that she knows I love her and just want to help. I asked her to tell me anything else I don't know and that it just doesn't seem plausible that I know it all. I promised no anger or judgment.
Mostly I told her that I am sad and worried and I don't like it when she talks about leaving or how someone with the disease would understand her better. I told her I know she is a good person and not a monster. I avoided blame but was clear that if she was deceiving me and her sponsor as therapist then nothing is going to help - she needs to be honest.
I guess it should not shock me but her response really did. She said she did not like getting beaten down - discussing it in any form is beating her down. After about a minute she turned to "I could bring up the things I am mad about from 8 months ago like x y and z but I don't. That one always makes me shake my head. She has said more than once that she could blame it on things I did 6 months ago buy she wouldn't do that! That is just so comical - getting in the guilt and shame shots to deflect.
It was nothing but guilt and retribution and criticism and contempt
She does not think rehab is needed but will go because I insist to make me feel better.
Bottom line is simple and she summed it up well - I can't believe anything she says because she can't promise she won't drink or tell the truth. Well, now there's a problem.
I might be able to live with that problem of she followed it by saying something that showed some semblance of remorse or concern but I got none, none whatsoever. She said she is sick of hearing that she is causing problems and I'm sad and how she has broken every promise she's made and crossed every boundary we agreed to... Then more guilt for my poor behavior more than 6 months ago despite her acknowledgment that once I committed I have not wavered or given her one reason to worry about my commitment.
Bottom line is that she have me no indication that she cares about what she has done or will do except that she doesn't like to be reminded. I was a thousand times more forgiving and understanding than she was when I made mistakes but no matter - I deserved it and guess still do whereas she should not have to address what she has done and make up for it.
So the question for the counselor is simple - she says she can't promise a different result yet she doesn't think she needs more help and I can't accept that because if I do then I am putting my son at risk and I made a choice to go throug this, he did not.
She said I should have just said we have an appointment and shut up. As much as her lack of regard for feelings other than her own infuriates me she has a point. She can't promise to be responsible or reasonable yet I am trying to reason with her.
It's about time I realize the obvious and treat this objectively before my feelings for her get someone hurt. The deflecting and blame/guilt nonsense used to really shame me into compliance and silence - now I just get annoyed because it is so predictable. I just pointed out the difference - I did not mke excuses or blame my bad behavior on her and I made amends and stuck to my commitment and she just won't take any accountability or show any remorse or even acknowledge that she's asking me to forget that she put our sons life in danger and accept her doing not one thing differently in the future when she can't promise it won't repeat and doesn't see any need for a different approach.
I've been really hurt that she doesn't seem to think I deserve the same things she expected and that no matter how many times we agree to put the past behind us she uses it as a shield and club every time she breaks a promise or does something damaging or otherwise does harm through her words or actions.
If she just could have shown a trace of remorse or regret instad of defiance as a determination to make this about me rather than accept my plea to work with me and face this together....
I know. If I was reading someone else write this I'd say don't take it personally, you won't get anything but attacked and blamed for expressing genuine concern no matter how kind or understanding or supportive you are. Ironically she says everything is all about me and that I'm too tough on her. Q-wahhhhh-k
Voices were getting louder and I was getting angry so I called timeout and went to work in the garage for a while, now she's at her meeting and I'm snuggling the munchkin.
I'm out of ideas and emotional energy. Will just tell the counselor I can't say whether she is telling the truth and I can't risk leaving her with the baby without some assurance that she's sober. So I will ask for drug testing and get a breathalyzer I guess and of I have to leave for work or go out of town then she'll get calls over FaceTime to test. If she won't take my offer to work together then I just have to treat her as an adversary I guess. This sucks
Fortunately little guy is the only concern, my dd is 17 and completely reliable and trustworthy.
Why oh why do they so hate the one person who loves them enough to forgive everything and keep trying to make thier life better?
Just disappointed right now, really hoped for some sign that she's sorry and appreciates the patience and concern. Nope ...I got eff you and a good beating instead. I'm glad I called timeout and walked away. This is not ok any more. How do you forgive someone who all but promises to do it again and blames you for it
Venting over- little man waking up.
I love my wife. I don't love feeling like a rug
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 137
It's not that they hate us- it's just that their first love is alcohol. As it has been said before, when we threaten to stop enabling their defences go up.
Your wife's defences are up- what worries me is her seemingly lack of concern for your son- did she mention him at all in her retort to your email.
Simply put - if she is drinking when breastfeeding, so is he; and as a child of an alcoholic this may have huge repercussions in the future. I would advocate formula feeding for safety- at least that is one thing that can be controlled.
I understand that you have received harsh replies, but your baby's safety is at risk- and I cannot put it any plainer. I am so sorry got you and your family's predicament and pain
Your wife's defences are up- what worries me is her seemingly lack of concern for your son- did she mention him at all in her retort to your email.
Simply put - if she is drinking when breastfeeding, so is he; and as a child of an alcoholic this may have huge repercussions in the future. I would advocate formula feeding for safety- at least that is one thing that can be controlled.
I understand that you have received harsh replies, but your baby's safety is at risk- and I cannot put it any plainer. I am so sorry got you and your family's predicament and pain
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
You have an appointment tomorrow correct?
This is said in no defense or support of anyone but sometimes things get to communication breakdown - that's where you are.
Go tomorrow - let someone else who is unbiased look at it with fresh eyes and guide you. It sounds like there is so much going on here with passed problems and current ones. Emotions are high, defenses are up its not a good situation to accomplish anything.
Sorry for what you are going through will keep you and your family in my prayers tonight.
This is said in no defense or support of anyone but sometimes things get to communication breakdown - that's where you are.
Go tomorrow - let someone else who is unbiased look at it with fresh eyes and guide you. It sounds like there is so much going on here with passed problems and current ones. Emotions are high, defenses are up its not a good situation to accomplish anything.
Sorry for what you are going through will keep you and your family in my prayers tonight.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Thanks - yes, appointment tomorrow.
MC on Friday
Communication is non-existent if it has to do with anything she has done - instant retaliation and attack.
No, she did not mention our son in her response. I have not seemed to made any dent whatsoever in explaining that it isn't just that I can't allow her to drink while breastfeeding or caring for him, it is that I can't allow for the possibility of it.
I will explain that to the counselor at the rehab center and see what they think. It will be a hassle for her to go three times per week from 6-9 but I'll figure it out. She has to be alive to hate my guts for it and maybe after 6 weeks of it she will stop hating me for making her go and be glad that I did.
I dunno any longer but the rollercoaster has to stop and I can't take a vote around here on this any longer. If she is sober and responsible and hates my guts and leaves me then so be it - that's her call. Meanwhile, until she proves to the greatest extent possible that she can be trusted there is such a thing as a minimum standard of care and if I cave on the rehab thing because I am afraid she will feel attacked and get angry then I am not providing it to my son.
I don't believe any parent can function if they have to worry about what may happen to thier child.
...She has been a devoted and loving mother and I have zero doubt that she loves our son more than she has ever loved anyone or anything and I love her dearly... but it's time to be honest - she drank while pregnant, isn't worried enough about it to make any changes or show any remorse or regret and she can't promise she won't drink tomorrow. I have to go out of town soon, I can't lose my job so for everyone's sake we need a bandaid to get us through right now - a solution will take much longer.
I've calmed down a bit. I am not angry and I am reminding myself not to resent her for putting me in this position. She's pissed off and not speaking to me much but relenting because I hurt her feelings is why she did not have this appointment after the first catch. If I teach someone that they can make me accept anything as long as they make me feel badly enough for raising an objection then I pretty well deserve to get attacked :-)
Deep breaths. One day at a time, today was a bad one.
I love my wife.
MC on Friday
Communication is non-existent if it has to do with anything she has done - instant retaliation and attack.
No, she did not mention our son in her response. I have not seemed to made any dent whatsoever in explaining that it isn't just that I can't allow her to drink while breastfeeding or caring for him, it is that I can't allow for the possibility of it.
I will explain that to the counselor at the rehab center and see what they think. It will be a hassle for her to go three times per week from 6-9 but I'll figure it out. She has to be alive to hate my guts for it and maybe after 6 weeks of it she will stop hating me for making her go and be glad that I did.
I dunno any longer but the rollercoaster has to stop and I can't take a vote around here on this any longer. If she is sober and responsible and hates my guts and leaves me then so be it - that's her call. Meanwhile, until she proves to the greatest extent possible that she can be trusted there is such a thing as a minimum standard of care and if I cave on the rehab thing because I am afraid she will feel attacked and get angry then I am not providing it to my son.
I don't believe any parent can function if they have to worry about what may happen to thier child.
...She has been a devoted and loving mother and I have zero doubt that she loves our son more than she has ever loved anyone or anything and I love her dearly... but it's time to be honest - she drank while pregnant, isn't worried enough about it to make any changes or show any remorse or regret and she can't promise she won't drink tomorrow. I have to go out of town soon, I can't lose my job so for everyone's sake we need a bandaid to get us through right now - a solution will take much longer.
I've calmed down a bit. I am not angry and I am reminding myself not to resent her for putting me in this position. She's pissed off and not speaking to me much but relenting because I hurt her feelings is why she did not have this appointment after the first catch. If I teach someone that they can make me accept anything as long as they make me feel badly enough for raising an objection then I pretty well deserve to get attacked :-)
Deep breaths. One day at a time, today was a bad one.
I love my wife.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 284
Originally Posted by PohsFriend 
I have not seemed to made any dent whatsoever in explaining that it isn't just that I can't allow her to drink while breastfeeding or caring for him, it is that I can't allow for the possibility of it.
In your case, I think that the suggestion of feeding your son formula is wise. Is it ideal? Maybe not, but it is not disastrous either. It is still possible to nurture a strong bond while feeding formula. Also, hiring additional help to assist your wife while you are not there seems reasonable. This is not a personal attack to her, but this is you protecting everyone from the very real possibility that she might choose to not be sober at some point. Then, if she does drink or use drugs (or eat some "tiramisu"), you will only be concerned with HER consequences of HER actions. In my mind, these protective measures are personal boundaries for you, to ensure your sanity when dealing with someone you obviously can't trust 100%. These are decisions you make for yourself and your kids that allow her the freedom to make her own choices. Those choices may end up crossing additional boundaries or she may slowly earn your trust back again. At which point, you are free to re-evaluate your own decisions / behaviors to fit the new situation.
What I'm trying to say is that boundaries don't always have the form "if you do X then I do Y." That's a very reactive way of dealing with people and will end up leaving you feeling powerless because you never know when they might do X. And, you really don't want to do Y. So, you end up saying, "Just don't do X, okay?" Try to think up a more proactive boundary that says, "if you do X, you wont like the consequences, but then it won't upset my entire world because I am taking these measures now to protect myself from that possibility."
Take care,
Fathom
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: PA
Posts: 2,728
What she needs to understand is, that she didn't break the trust down over night and she certainly isn't going to rebuild it over night. There is no trust here at all because she has lied, drank, popped pills and whatever else while pregnant. I'll tell you, I wouldn't trust that sexy, beautiful wife as far as I could throw her even if she does love that baby and I'm sure she does BUT she still drank and popped a few pills while pregnant and put him at risk so who's to say she won't do something while he's napping and you're away? You have no idea and she knows that she can pull some wool and 
I think you know this.
I keep hearing you say *rehab rehab*. We all know that's what she needs but you can't force her to go. She has to want it! She has to seize the moment and say, Honey... It's time! I need help! I'm a mess! I can't do it alone! and I have not seen you post that. All I have read is what YOU want (completely understand you!!!) and she wants to sweep it under the rug.
My AH would get into this tissey sometimes when he'd get drunk. I think my fool doesn't know how to process life because he's been an alcoholic for more than 30 years so his coping mechinism is screwed and he turns to alcohol which really screws him but anyways... He does what your wife does. Well, YOU did this and you did that and blah, blah, blah! Blame, blame, blame. You know why he is pissed at me? Cuz I talked him into a prostate exam and instead of going with him I went hunting and he has held that against me for over a year now. His last drunken diatribe revolved around him getting his a$$ poked and me hunting! I swear, I wanted to hand him a tissue to wipe his vagina. At the end of his very personal conversation of him going between anger and sadness and not knowing which one was working best for him, I asked him if he was going to throw that in my face for the rest of my life because- You being drunk and putting me through this ******** far outweighs getting a finger up the a$$! Hello Dolly! One finger or 2?
I must have made myself clear in that he was acting like such a fool because the next day, he said, I will never bring that **** up again. We will see.
And one more thing before I go cuz my shift is almost over. I won't hang around for another day and watch him get drunk AND I won't leave my dogs there either because he won't take care of them. I went on a bear hunt a couple weeks ago. I had a blast!!! I left on a Friday afternoon and the hunt was on a Saturday. I fed the Girls like a good Mummy and I left. Now he knows they live there. He knows they need to eat, $hit and pi$$! Do you think he fed them? NO! So they come with me because I know he won't take care of them and when I tell him what I will do if he drinks, he gets mad and tells me I can't take our Rottweiler. Um... so honey... YOU can't keep our rottweiler.
What I'm getting at is, I can't trust him. And I wouldn't trust him if I had to go away on business even if he is sobering up. I'd have to call in reinforcement to make sure they ate and their beds were clean and dry. Why? Because I owe it to them to make sure they are provided for even if it pi$$es him off because HE (not me) has proven he's not responsible nor reliable to give them basic care when I'm away and he wants to play. I would NEVER leave him incharge of an infant unsupervised before his first year of sobriety. NO WAY IN HELL! The dogs, yeah, I can get away with a day but a baby? I don't think so. Not when she's been lying and sneaking and drinking and popping pills when she was pregnant. I would also take the baby off of breast milk and this is why... it comes down to trust and there is none and I'd be a dirty SOB if I let her breast feed a baby and not trust that that milk is clean and SO WHAT if she is hurt! Who put herself in that position? Are you saving face for her or are you going to do the right thing and protect that boy? Cuz I would pi$$ in her Cheerios every morning to protect him from tainted milk. It's not my problem, it's hers and these are consequences to lying, drinking, and pill popping while pregnant.
See, now I'm rambling.
I think you know this.I keep hearing you say *rehab rehab*. We all know that's what she needs but you can't force her to go. She has to want it! She has to seize the moment and say, Honey... It's time! I need help! I'm a mess! I can't do it alone! and I have not seen you post that. All I have read is what YOU want (completely understand you!!!) and she wants to sweep it under the rug.
My AH would get into this tissey sometimes when he'd get drunk. I think my fool doesn't know how to process life because he's been an alcoholic for more than 30 years so his coping mechinism is screwed and he turns to alcohol which really screws him but anyways... He does what your wife does. Well, YOU did this and you did that and blah, blah, blah! Blame, blame, blame. You know why he is pissed at me? Cuz I talked him into a prostate exam and instead of going with him I went hunting and he has held that against me for over a year now. His last drunken diatribe revolved around him getting his a$$ poked and me hunting! I swear, I wanted to hand him a tissue to wipe his vagina. At the end of his very personal conversation of him going between anger and sadness and not knowing which one was working best for him, I asked him if he was going to throw that in my face for the rest of my life because- You being drunk and putting me through this ******** far outweighs getting a finger up the a$$! Hello Dolly! One finger or 2?
I must have made myself clear in that he was acting like such a fool because the next day, he said, I will never bring that **** up again. We will see. And one more thing before I go cuz my shift is almost over. I won't hang around for another day and watch him get drunk AND I won't leave my dogs there either because he won't take care of them. I went on a bear hunt a couple weeks ago. I had a blast!!! I left on a Friday afternoon and the hunt was on a Saturday. I fed the Girls like a good Mummy and I left. Now he knows they live there. He knows they need to eat, $hit and pi$$! Do you think he fed them? NO! So they come with me because I know he won't take care of them and when I tell him what I will do if he drinks, he gets mad and tells me I can't take our Rottweiler. Um... so honey... YOU can't keep our rottweiler.
What I'm getting at is, I can't trust him. And I wouldn't trust him if I had to go away on business even if he is sobering up. I'd have to call in reinforcement to make sure they ate and their beds were clean and dry. Why? Because I owe it to them to make sure they are provided for even if it pi$$es him off because HE (not me) has proven he's not responsible nor reliable to give them basic care when I'm away and he wants to play. I would NEVER leave him incharge of an infant unsupervised before his first year of sobriety. NO WAY IN HELL! The dogs, yeah, I can get away with a day but a baby? I don't think so. Not when she's been lying and sneaking and drinking and popping pills when she was pregnant. I would also take the baby off of breast milk and this is why... it comes down to trust and there is none and I'd be a dirty SOB if I let her breast feed a baby and not trust that that milk is clean and SO WHAT if she is hurt! Who put herself in that position? Are you saving face for her or are you going to do the right thing and protect that boy? Cuz I would pi$$ in her Cheerios every morning to protect him from tainted milk. It's not my problem, it's hers and these are consequences to lying, drinking, and pill popping while pregnant.
See, now I'm rambling.
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
Hi, been in the situation (mentally) you are now, so couple of things: you really, really want this to work, I can see that, and you want to be fair, and you want to have a normal, trusting relationship. I really get that.
you can enforce your boundary about rehab now, it wouldn't be punishment, it may be delayed, b ut you can do it, because the boundary is for you. you found out she drank and took drugs and because you are finding it so hard to process thoughts and get a handle on this (basically because of the lies/manipulation/chaos that living with an active drinking brings) plus new baby etc, it has taken til now for you to come to that conclusion. which is FINE.
rehab for a non-drinker should be a walk in the park, should help her solidify her sobriety, give her tools to choose from. It would also help you trust that this is done with, that she is serious. If she is in danger of being "counselled out" (poor dear
) drop the MC until after she has completed rehab and have your own individual therapy to cope with all this stress.
get childcare, being scared that your son's care-giver may be drunk or high is not condusive to any sanity.
you can enforce your boundary about rehab now, it wouldn't be punishment, it may be delayed, b ut you can do it, because the boundary is for you. you found out she drank and took drugs and because you are finding it so hard to process thoughts and get a handle on this (basically because of the lies/manipulation/chaos that living with an active drinking brings) plus new baby etc, it has taken til now for you to come to that conclusion. which is FINE.
rehab for a non-drinker should be a walk in the park, should help her solidify her sobriety, give her tools to choose from. It would also help you trust that this is done with, that she is serious. If she is in danger of being "counselled out" (poor dear
) drop the MC until after she has completed rehab and have your own individual therapy to cope with all this stress. get childcare, being scared that your son's care-giver may be drunk or high is not condusive to any sanity.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Real World
Posts: 729
Again lots of good feedback.
She stayed mad for a whole last night then wrote me an email back and says she feels awful already and I am beating her down by talking about it.
Also said several times that her sobriety and our son is all she should be focusing on which is fine.
Also said several times that she may need to do this on her own if our relationship stresses her to want to drink. That one I addressed and reminded her that we agreed not to bring that up unless she truly wants a divorce. It's a veiled threat and manipulative whether intended to be or not so we both know where the door is but unless someone has their **** packed and is ready to move out you don't open that door.
Also said that the rehab is a waste of her time since she has five Aa meetings each week and one with her counselor and our marriage counseling.
Said she wants to stop the marriage counseling - it is not producing results and has turned into a weekly gripe session. I concur that it is not moving us forward or driving better conflict resolution. I disagreed that it should go away. She tends to engage in splitting behavior. If something isn't good it's bad so I said we can discuss that with the MC and find a different approach or different MC but that I am not for giving that up. I think it is needed and one of the things we discussed prior to marriage was that if one party thinks we need that then we need that.
So... Short version is that I think she's embarrassed, she's been riding me really hard over really trivial things and she's been doing some really big things that ate now in the open and so she wants to forget everything in the past and focus forward. That's good thinking regardless of whether she decided it only once the focus was on her.
She also wants me to work alanon harder and I am willing to do that. I have a feeling she thinks the alanon group will tell me to just accept everything and that's not the case at all - most of the veterans here are alanon folks and like me they don't blame the alcoholic but they don't suffer quacking gladly.
So... Peace restored for now but I stood my ground. Rehab is going to happen. If the assessment says her plan is good that's fine but we tried her plan and now we will try a professionals plan.
I'm not agreeing to give up MC. Again I think after all of the stuff she hammered at me for only to come in there and have it revealed that she was lying and deceiving and using so now she is embarrassed. I get that, I felt beat up for a while but I am not there to say ah-hah! Now I get to beat you up!
My issues are around boundaries. I have set about 5 and she broke each one outside of te no drinking one exactly one time. That's an amazing coincidence else there is a subconscious "you can't tell me what to do!" petulance behind that.
So we have an intake assessment with the rehab center on Wednesday and she doesn't like it but I did not backpedal when she dropped the hints about leaving and told her that WE need that because WE failed to protect our son with the current plan.
She later took back the stuff about leaving and made it clear she does not want that and is not planning that and she does love me. I'm glad because it angered me and I saw it as manipulation and almost blurted out some things.
So Wednesday we go to rehab intake appointment, Friday MC. The explosive response to me seemed to have a couple purposes - avoid rehab and avoid MC. Neither of those is going anywhere. She also wants to focus forward and not be rinsed of her past failures and neither do I so that's fine and she wants me in alanon more which benefits me and us so that's fine.
I'm getting better at standing my ground and calmly repeating things like "no, I did not say x y or z, read my note. I said a b and c and said them because fact fact fact. She ignores that and goes on the defensive and then lashes out but I'm ignoring a lot of it now.
So I get that rehab would be much better if she wanted it but I can't make her want it. We agreed that if she drank she would go, period. She drank, she goes. I'm guessing most people who go to rehab don't want to be there but at least this is outpatient. If she were wet right now it would be inpatient. My boundary is that I won't live with an addict who is using and that's largely because I won't allow that behavior around my children and that's that.
So I'm a little numb today but I feel better because while her attitude has not changed and she's still defiant and resisting a more thorough plan I am moving out of the role of approving the plan and gauging whether it works and handing that off to psychiatric professionals. I am not controlling her, her actions are resulting in less freedom and and more structure to her recovery plan and she has the ability to control that once this rehab is complete. If the assessment is that she's doing fine and I worry too much that's peachy but I am not going to take advice on how to handle this from her.
So... We will see. I think a lot of the anger and defiance is really just fear. She knows that if she drinks and gets caught then the next rock bottom will be a lot worse than the last one. She's mad at me because I'm not buying it and for all the bravado and Hirt feelings over my questioning whether I caught everything I think she scared because it's easy to fool someone who is out of their depth on this stuff but a rehab intake counselor is probably pretty hard to quack at.
I'm not mad or frustrated. I was.. But I am looking at why she is lashing out at me because of her own actions and I feel sad for her. She's feeling like she wrecked the honeymoon and then wrecked the day our son was born and she sees that I'm hurt by it and I know she really wanted something different and better and she feels like she keeps screwing up.
As I step back I'm a lot less mad now because those days were awful for her too and she has the added joy of feeling guilty and embarrassed and ashamed.
Sometimes when we get mad it helps to remember that they don't drink to drown out the pride and happiness in their heart, it's guilt, shame, humiliation and it sucks worse for them regardless of whether they did it to themselves. I told her I am in this with her and her partner in this - I have to hold firm on not ignoring things and following through on what we agree to but I can also let her know this is our problem
And I guess that's the important thing. As much as we want to jump up and down and call a foul sometimes because it is not fair and we want to make the other person admit that it is their fault not ours... That might make us feel better for the moment but I'm not a judge I am a husband and this one is covered under the better/worse, sickness/health paragraph. I can hold firm to boundaries that are needed to protect the family including her while letting her know that it's ok, I'm here and on your side as long as you are committed to getting well. As long as she is committed to that or at least doing the right things like Aa meetings and rehab then I can suck it up and be forgiving and patient and meet her where she is - early in recovery and scared and confused and struggling. I can't expect her to be where a person five years into recovery would be for another 4 years.
ODAT.
She stayed mad for a whole last night then wrote me an email back and says she feels awful already and I am beating her down by talking about it.
Also said several times that her sobriety and our son is all she should be focusing on which is fine.
Also said several times that she may need to do this on her own if our relationship stresses her to want to drink. That one I addressed and reminded her that we agreed not to bring that up unless she truly wants a divorce. It's a veiled threat and manipulative whether intended to be or not so we both know where the door is but unless someone has their **** packed and is ready to move out you don't open that door.
Also said that the rehab is a waste of her time since she has five Aa meetings each week and one with her counselor and our marriage counseling.
Said she wants to stop the marriage counseling - it is not producing results and has turned into a weekly gripe session. I concur that it is not moving us forward or driving better conflict resolution. I disagreed that it should go away. She tends to engage in splitting behavior. If something isn't good it's bad so I said we can discuss that with the MC and find a different approach or different MC but that I am not for giving that up. I think it is needed and one of the things we discussed prior to marriage was that if one party thinks we need that then we need that.
So... Short version is that I think she's embarrassed, she's been riding me really hard over really trivial things and she's been doing some really big things that ate now in the open and so she wants to forget everything in the past and focus forward. That's good thinking regardless of whether she decided it only once the focus was on her.
She also wants me to work alanon harder and I am willing to do that. I have a feeling she thinks the alanon group will tell me to just accept everything and that's not the case at all - most of the veterans here are alanon folks and like me they don't blame the alcoholic but they don't suffer quacking gladly.
So... Peace restored for now but I stood my ground. Rehab is going to happen. If the assessment says her plan is good that's fine but we tried her plan and now we will try a professionals plan.
I'm not agreeing to give up MC. Again I think after all of the stuff she hammered at me for only to come in there and have it revealed that she was lying and deceiving and using so now she is embarrassed. I get that, I felt beat up for a while but I am not there to say ah-hah! Now I get to beat you up!
My issues are around boundaries. I have set about 5 and she broke each one outside of te no drinking one exactly one time. That's an amazing coincidence else there is a subconscious "you can't tell me what to do!" petulance behind that.
So we have an intake assessment with the rehab center on Wednesday and she doesn't like it but I did not backpedal when she dropped the hints about leaving and told her that WE need that because WE failed to protect our son with the current plan.
She later took back the stuff about leaving and made it clear she does not want that and is not planning that and she does love me. I'm glad because it angered me and I saw it as manipulation and almost blurted out some things.
So Wednesday we go to rehab intake appointment, Friday MC. The explosive response to me seemed to have a couple purposes - avoid rehab and avoid MC. Neither of those is going anywhere. She also wants to focus forward and not be rinsed of her past failures and neither do I so that's fine and she wants me in alanon more which benefits me and us so that's fine.
I'm getting better at standing my ground and calmly repeating things like "no, I did not say x y or z, read my note. I said a b and c and said them because fact fact fact. She ignores that and goes on the defensive and then lashes out but I'm ignoring a lot of it now.
So I get that rehab would be much better if she wanted it but I can't make her want it. We agreed that if she drank she would go, period. She drank, she goes. I'm guessing most people who go to rehab don't want to be there but at least this is outpatient. If she were wet right now it would be inpatient. My boundary is that I won't live with an addict who is using and that's largely because I won't allow that behavior around my children and that's that.
So I'm a little numb today but I feel better because while her attitude has not changed and she's still defiant and resisting a more thorough plan I am moving out of the role of approving the plan and gauging whether it works and handing that off to psychiatric professionals. I am not controlling her, her actions are resulting in less freedom and and more structure to her recovery plan and she has the ability to control that once this rehab is complete. If the assessment is that she's doing fine and I worry too much that's peachy but I am not going to take advice on how to handle this from her.
So... We will see. I think a lot of the anger and defiance is really just fear. She knows that if she drinks and gets caught then the next rock bottom will be a lot worse than the last one. She's mad at me because I'm not buying it and for all the bravado and Hirt feelings over my questioning whether I caught everything I think she scared because it's easy to fool someone who is out of their depth on this stuff but a rehab intake counselor is probably pretty hard to quack at.
I'm not mad or frustrated. I was.. But I am looking at why she is lashing out at me because of her own actions and I feel sad for her. She's feeling like she wrecked the honeymoon and then wrecked the day our son was born and she sees that I'm hurt by it and I know she really wanted something different and better and she feels like she keeps screwing up.
As I step back I'm a lot less mad now because those days were awful for her too and she has the added joy of feeling guilty and embarrassed and ashamed.
Sometimes when we get mad it helps to remember that they don't drink to drown out the pride and happiness in their heart, it's guilt, shame, humiliation and it sucks worse for them regardless of whether they did it to themselves. I told her I am in this with her and her partner in this - I have to hold firm on not ignoring things and following through on what we agree to but I can also let her know this is our problem
And I guess that's the important thing. As much as we want to jump up and down and call a foul sometimes because it is not fair and we want to make the other person admit that it is their fault not ours... That might make us feel better for the moment but I'm not a judge I am a husband and this one is covered under the better/worse, sickness/health paragraph. I can hold firm to boundaries that are needed to protect the family including her while letting her know that it's ok, I'm here and on your side as long as you are committed to getting well. As long as she is committed to that or at least doing the right things like Aa meetings and rehab then I can suck it up and be forgiving and patient and meet her where she is - early in recovery and scared and confused and struggling. I can't expect her to be where a person five years into recovery would be for another 4 years.
ODAT.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Sounds like you got some resolve today.
Perhaps putting MC on hold right now wouldn't be such a bad idea. These are both huge issues her sobriety #1 and the effects on your marriage #2. Care of infant falling in with #1. If her recovery is where it should be, then I would expect that SOME of the issues in the marriage would resolve themselves.
Sounds like MC isn't really getting results anyway - could this be because of the issues with sobriety?
Throughout all that you have written I am on your side. I am also realistic that one can only do so much - expend so much energy and emotion before the tank is empty. If she is going into outpatient treatment and going to meetings - perhaps resuming MC might be more effective once you are through outpatient treatment.
Just food for thought.
Perhaps putting MC on hold right now wouldn't be such a bad idea. These are both huge issues her sobriety #1 and the effects on your marriage #2. Care of infant falling in with #1. If her recovery is where it should be, then I would expect that SOME of the issues in the marriage would resolve themselves.
Sounds like MC isn't really getting results anyway - could this be because of the issues with sobriety?
Throughout all that you have written I am on your side. I am also realistic that one can only do so much - expend so much energy and emotion before the tank is empty. If she is going into outpatient treatment and going to meetings - perhaps resuming MC might be more effective once you are through outpatient treatment.
Just food for thought.
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
