ziv2

Looking for some advice. I'm living with my Alcoholic boyfriend, and just don't know where else to get help.

1st off, I am a little discouraged in looking at forum postings and other online sources and I feel like I already know how my question is going to get answered: "You should leave."

Well I would agree with that statement - except my boyfriend is SO deep in his addiction, that I just know he will drink himself to death before he hits "rock bottom" in any other way. If I am not around, all he does is down multiple pints of vodka, and go to bed... wakes up barely able to walk, drinks more, and goes to bed. I can not bear the thought of leaving, not hearing from him for a couple of weeks, going to check up on him, and finding his corpse laying on the floor. (If you think I'm being dramatic, I'm not. I've already had an occurrence where I found him withdrawing from alcohol, and he would have died had I not called 911)

Is there any hope that I can find him some help? Is leaving the only answer? I know that he can not just "stop drinking" and go to AA meetings, as he is at a point where he needs to be medically detoxed. The last time he did not drink for an extended period of time was 2 days, and he had a seizure and had to be detoxed at the hospital (separate incident than the one described above, there have probably been 5 or so alcohol related hospital visits in the last 2-3 years).

Has anyone in here found success with having an intervention? I at least want to try this before I leave. The only problem, his family is scattered around the country. I'm not sure if they are aware of his problems, or don't know how bad it is, or if they just don't care. The only 2 friends he had left, recently told me they want nothing to do with him anymore, and they will only bear his presence so they don't lose my friendship. I have tried talking to him, but I am a broken record at this point in time. Sometimes he listens and agrees that he needs help... but I just can't get him to get help.

He doesn't have a job or insurance (he is living off of his 401k from his previous job) and I finally found out that our county has a program that allows addicts to get subsidized help - but I still have to get him to take the step himself Once, after an ugly drinking episode, he finally called to make an appointment to be evaluated for this program, but of course did not go to his appointment.

Anyways, I'm done rambling for now (I could go on, and on, and on...) But any advice would be much appreciated!

Rosiepetal

So sorry you're going through this.
I do know he is the only one that can change himself.
I'm not qualified to answer your
"Has anyone in here found success with having an intervention?" but I would be interested in the responses.
Hang in there & I'm sure there's others who will offer good advice shortly.
Hugs, I know it's hard.

Impurrfect

((ziv)) - Welcome to SR, though sorry for what has brought you here. I don't have any personal experience with interventions but a lot with addictions.

Sadly, there really isn't any way to make him stop drinking or even want to. That has to be his decision. As far as him drinking himself to death if you were to leave, it sounds like he's working on that while you are still there.

I'm a recovering addict and have/had loved ones who are addicts/alcoholics. When I chose recovery, I left my bf who shared my addiction. He was determined to keep using, nothing I said or did (even knowing the addiction inside/out) made any difference. He did die, a couple years later.

It took the great people here to help me accept that I didn't cause it, can't control it and can't change it. I still have loved ones who are active, others in recovery. The best thing I learned here is to focus on MY life, regardless of what they're doing. Doesn't mean it doesn't hurt or that I don't love them.

I hope you keep reading and posting. The permanent threads at the top of this forum ("stickie's") have some really good information.

Hugs and prayers,

Amy

Thepatman

Difficult one because I was on the ofher side of the fence. Make him read this. I had the most beautiful girlfriend, the love of my life. We had a house togheter, planning to have children. She gave me an ultimatum. I choosed the bottle over her. I was blind with the booze. She left, I lost her. She is now married, 2 children. We still speak and are friends, but I regret loosing her often. Might be to late for him to listen. ;-(

Tuffgirl

Welcome, ziv.

I understand the feeling of discouragement. However, the "just leave" sentiment is more related to you, not him. If you are unhappy, at your wits end, scared for your children, ruined financially, etc...maybe it is time to think about leaving. Because in our world, the only saving we can do is saving ourselves and our sanity. Your man is free to drink himself to death if he so desires. And your presence isn't going to stop him. He's a grown man...sure...you see he needs help, and probably desperately! But he has to be the one to want the help. After all, he is the one with the out-of-control addiction.

What we encourage everyone to do here is slow down and think about your situation carefully and methodically, unless, of course, someone is in immediate danger.

So what can you do right now? Today? I would suggest learning about alcoholism and reading about interventions. Some good books on the subject are written by Debra Jay - just Google or amazon search her name and you'll find them. Talk with his family about their ideas for an intervention. Are they even interested? Do they think its a worthwhile activity? If not, then you may need to re-strategize.

I would also recommend posting the question on interventions to the alcoholism forum. Ask them how they feel or have felt about interventions. Its great to hear straight from the source if this is something that would have meaning, or just push your man further into his bottle.

Lastly, be prepared to let go of the outcome. If you move forward with an intervention, or something of that nature, don't hang your hopes on a positive outcome. They work nicely on TV, but in reality, many interventions are epic failures.

I know you love him and its killing you to watch him slowly kill himself. We've all been in your shoes. There is no easy decision here. There is no right way, either. Well, except for one, and that's get to an Al-Anon meeting pronto. Get some face-to-face support right now. And take good care of yourself.

Prayers,
~T

marie1960

except my boyfriend is SO deep in his addiction, that I just know he will drink himself to death before he hits "rock bottom" in any other way. (Ziv2)

There was a time, I believed XA would certainly drink himself to death, if I was not an active presence in his life. In a sense, I was holding myself hostage. I put my life on hold and concentrated solely on him, I really believed I could help him. I was dead wrong. His out of control, unacceptable behavior was taking a toll on my health and wellbeing. (AND I wanted him to quit drinking, he never wanted to stop for himself, HE has to want it for himself. period.)

SR is a great place to educate yourself about addiction. Hope you take some time and read and learn all you can about this disease. ONLY when I accepted that change begins with ME was I able to come to terms with the nightmare I was living.

I now live a healthy life free of addiction. I could never have arrived at today without getting real honest with myself, and reaching out for help for MYSELF. You matter, time to focus on your needs. Please take care of you..

Please know we are here to support you

Jody675

my last bf was an alcoholic, and a drug user. i left him because he was drinking too much, his occasional drug use, and the fact that all of his friends were related to drinking and taking drugs. he promised he would quit drinking, as he had done it before, stop taking acid, and that he didnt need most of this friends. within a week on a boys night out he was drinking, the next night he had a glass of wine with me at dinner, and when questioned about it, his reply was, i dont want to be too hard on myself over it, lets just see what happens. when i pointed out we already knew what happens next he just ignored me. next morning i packed up my things and left. we havent spoken since, except a couple of nasty text messages. you can't MAKE him do anything. that includes quitting and to pick up the next drink. both of those come from him. if love was powerful enough to stop a loved one from addiction this site would not exist. you might want to check out the stickies to do with codependency as anyone who stays in a relationship because they think that they are the only ones who can save that person, needs to have a closer look at themselves. you might find that you too are an addict. but you are addicted to him.

start reading, and then i hope you pack up your bags and run. that was the advise i was given by the people in here. the people who have walked, lived, cried in your shoes year after year wishing, hoping, praying that their loved one would see the light and get help. but addiction is a life long disease. do you want that in your life? in the life of your children? i now am in a loving addiction free relationship. sure it isnt perfect, but its a lot less complicated than my last.

thislonelygirl

a intervention might work. never tried it but you would need someone who knows what to say what to do how to act etc to attend best bet is look for an interventionist. some rehabs offer interventions. other than that attending aa even if it means continuing to drink maybe being amongst others similiar to him will help him awaken to whats going on. aside from that there isnt much more YOU can do. as sad as that is. you can talk to him when he is sober and suggest to him treatment options inform him of your fears and that you will support him while seeking recovery.
your words will not be enough though....it might and thats a might get him to recognize a problem but like a temptress his addiction will beckon him back. he will drink again. dont take these "conversations" too serious and get your hopes down. it will take dedication, will power and the right tools to get him onto sobreity. Leaving as much as you do not want to hear this has been done by loved ones NOT only because theyve had enough BUT because they love them enough to allow them to fall onto themselves and see hopefully ...what addiction is doing to them. Leaving doesnt have to be gone for good. it can be about peace of mind for you and for him to realize and to hopefully seek help. People who have left have been in your same shoes tried EVERYTHING they could think of and many long talks...many ideas etc but that in the finally of it all....they had to make that last decision/approach.
good luck to you and I pray your boyfriend finds help....this is a terrible terrible problem that only gets worse left untreated. it will make you question yourself and his decisions but that you can write here even attend al anon or similiar groups for yourself.

DoubleBarrel

Personally I don't believe in interventions. All the best intentions of others cannot create the will inside someone else to change. I believe that even the best interventions with world class rehabs end in a small percentage of success at extreme cost.
This is extremely sad, but it is also extremely detrimental to you.
Perhaps it isn't that his family does care, but they cannot be there to see him do this, and don't want to enable him.
You don't know what leaving will do. Perhaps he still has the ability to carry on because you care for him.
I had a girlfriend that I thought would die without me. Found her face down passed out in a snowbank one time. If i hadnt picked her up she would have frozen to death. She's been through horrible experiences. She didn't die. She's still drinking, almost 20 years later. After multiple arrests, detox, crashed cars, prison, etc etc.
Disconnecting is so hard, but I think you need to think about taking care of yourself.
Im so sorry about your situation.

ziv2

Thank you all for the support and encouragement.

I guess I'm being led on by the (maybe false) hope that he will agree to go to rehab, and that it will actually work. He had gone to rehab about 7-8 years ago, and stayed sober for a couple of years. That is when I met him, when he was sober. He was on top of the world, had a pretty good job, and was greatly admired by everyone in our "social circle" for his sobriety. (I'm starting to wonder if he really stayed sober b/c he wanted to, or b/c he had an interlock device on his car tho).

But anyways, he managed to stay sober despite being married to an alcoholic... for a couple of years. Then she basically screwed up their finances big-time and caused them to have to go through bankruptcy and foreclosure (I'll admit he contributed to the problems by resorting back to alcohol during this time and ignoring it all). He was living in an apartment on his own, when a "hospital" incident occurred. The landlord basically said, go to rehab, or I am evicting you.. so he went to rehab. Once he got out of rehab, the landlord backpedaled and decided to evict him anyways, so fresh out of rehab, he was in the middle of bankruptcy, about to lose his house, and had to go back there to live with his alcoholic wife. Needless to say, I doubt the sobriety lasted a day after getting out of rehab.

I guess I'm just holding on to the idea that maybe if he were to go to rehab, and actually get support this time, that he could actually sober up. I know the drinking is an excuse.. but I imagine the last time he went to rehab, it was probably pretty difficult to stay sober, when he left rehab and had to face one of the most difficult situations of his life (the whole going through bankruptcy, foreclosure).

But, in what I am reading, guess the only thing I really can do, is look out for myself. I've heard it from my good friend who left her Alcoholic ex husband. Guess I really need to stop justifying, and saying "what if" or "but if", and just look after myself. Anyways, thank you all for the support... and for letting me vent about the situation.

redatlanta

The best thing you can do is go to al anon IMO. Here you will be given the tools to deal with this situation. Al anon is for YOU, not for him. I am on the fence on intervention - I am a believer that rehab helps those who want it not who are forced to go, certainly there have been people who have gone because of an intervention and it ended up working for them, I would guess the exception rather than the rule.

As for letting the family know I am also on the fence. It could blow up in your face. Often times families are in denial or they look for someone to blame - most likely you, or they can swoop in and make things far worse.

I remember when I first joined SR reading all the stories made me very depressed. The resounding advice was to get to al anon and read information on codependency. I went to al anon not feeling it was for me - I didn't see myself as co-dependent and certainly not an enabler. WRONG. I was dealing with a relapse and like you my AH was sober for 10 years when I met him and had been for the 2 years we were together. I am still working on myself, and he is currently near 3 weeks sober. His decision not to drink was not forced by me, but I do believe that stopping some of my behavior has contributed to a healthier household. Btw, his relapse came when our relationship and lives were wonderful, not during a time of crisis which is when I expected something like that. First thing I learned about alcoholism - there isn't an action or event that causes relapse rather lack of active recovery (in our case he hadn't been to AA in 5 years) which meant relapse was always around the corner I just didn't know.

Keep posting and educating yourself. So sorry for what you are going through.

thislonelygirl

interlock device might have helped his sobreity but it didnt write it out for him....you must understand alcoholics will surprise you....jump over a bear trap for a bottle kind of way and interlock or no interlock ....he would have been drinking if he wanted too. if dui's, inapropriate behavior, sleepless nights, health,relationships, and job couldnt get in their way....belive you me an interlock device wont either so he on some level took sobreity for himself .
yes your friend is right...i too have thought and sometimes still think what if and he can and it might be different. ive held onto that hope but trust me preparing yourself for the worst case is taking care of you. youde be surprise at how ok he will be without you or atleast how not different it will be. when i left finally it was hard at first very but then i ended up realizing that he was going ot or not going to with or without me there. i am no more a force of power over him as i am to anyone else but that giving my support and love while giving myself a break was the best .

Florence

We ran a couple of interventions on my AH, with all the members of the family. The reason it would never have worked or made a difference was that none of us had any idea what boundaries look like, or how to enforce them, or of what we were willing to do if boundaries were violated. My in-laws for example, had a long list of things they expressly weren't able to do: they couldn't see him on the street or living out of his car, they would always give him money even if they said they wouldn't, they would never turn him away. And me? During one such intervention we confronted him on his drinking, he denied he had relapsed, and I accepted it as truth, that maybe I was imagining things because I was so hypervigilant about the alcoholism. Of course he'd been drinking.

In my mind, interventions are less about the alcoholic and more about the family. They can only be helpful if the alternative to detox and rehab is the total withdrawal of meaningful financial and emotional support from an active addict. If everyone isn't on the same page, the addict just revises the addiction to fit the new space you give it.

Tuffgirl

This sentence above really speaks to how much you need to educate yourself on alcoholism. Have you read Under the Influence?

It's not an excuse for a lousy life...its an addiction to a substance that affects the brain in a variety of ways. And its common to find underneath the addiction are personality disorders like depression. It's much bigger than just an excuse.

I don't think its ever hopeless - but I do know that a person has to want to quit and be seriously committed to quitting before any miracles happen. He may have been physically sober for a while, but its obvious he wasn't emotionally sober.

Educate yourself to what you are really dealing with. Having hope is one thing, just don't let it cloud your judgment or warp your reality.

GoatGirl

Ziv2, your post was something I could've written. My boyfriend also downs vodka by the bottle, passes out, wakes and can barely walk, then stumbles his way to bed.

He's lived with me for over two years, ever since he came out of his first rehab stint. he's currently on his third and while not an intervention in the classic sense, I think you could classify it as such. After two years of repeated relapses, I had said that if he drank again that I'd ask him to leave. He drank and I asked him to leave. This was on a saturday. The following weekend we we're meant to be going to my parents, I stated that I wouldn't be taking him with me and that I would not let him stay in the flat by himself, due to the damage he causes when stumbling around and the risk when he forgets that he's started cooking. He was in denial about it up until the friday I was due to leave.

He was meant to be seeing his therapist that morning, but was too drunk to get off the couch. I let his therapist know and he called to discuss options, he knew of the weekend plans. He knew my choices were take him with me, leave him in the flat, dump him at the train station, or try to persuade him to go somewhere safe, ie rehab or detox facility.

The first two were not an option anymore. The third would be too harsh in the state he was in and the fourth, fortunately, was possible. I spoke to my partner about rehab, he agreed to go and I drove him there before heading to my parents. It all happened within about four hours.

Admittedly he was pretty confused, he knew where he was going but it seemed to take a while to sink in. I stayed for the check in and Drs check up, made sure that they were going to medically detox him, he suffers from severe withdrawals, and made it clear to the staff, and him, that while I would like a family meeting, I wouldn't be visiting otherwise or calling much and that when he left, he wasn't coming back to my flat. They said he would be allowed one call that week and would have his phone back after the first week.

That was a week and half ago. He did manage to persuade them to let him use the phone about three or four times in the first week.. The first call was on the sunday to see how an event I was running had gone and to say sorry, which is the first time he's done voluntarily said it. He managed to get flowers delivered by wednesday, with another sorry note, again a first. On the wednesday he called to ask a favour regarding some medication he takes, during that call he asked if I would be visiting that weekend, I said no and he asked me to think about it.

When he called back the next day, I said no and gave my reasons. He then begged me, which made me feel horrendous but I stayed firm. During previous stays I've visited as much as possible, spending twice the time allowed to see him on travelling. This time I wanted to take some time and space for me. I was fighting back the tears when I told him I wouldn't see him that weekend and I spent most of Saturday crying.

On Sunday he was allowed a longer call and this time he wanted to say thank you and sorry, again. The thanks was for putting him in the clinic, he said its very different to other places he's been and that he had a real moment of clarity in a workshop the day before.

What happens next remains to be seen.

Like you, I didn't think I could leave him as he would definitely drink himself to death, I spoke to his therapist at length about this and he agreed, that it was possible that he might, but he might not and the question was how long was I prepared to put up with his behaviour. He also recommended I go to al-anon, which I eventually did and I wish I had gone sooner.

I love him but I can't live with the alcoholic him and nothing changes if nothing changes. For whatever reason, he hasn't wanted to seek recovery for the past two years and so my choice was for him not to share my life while he drinks. If after rehab he can work his recovery and sobriety for another five months, then I said we could discuss what happens next but I'm making no promises.

I too am terrified that he will come out of rehab, go back to his home town a few hundred miles away and go back to drinking, however I don't know that will happen and if it does, there is nothing I can do to stop him. It's his choice and as I much as it will hurt to see him destroy himself, he might not, and it is his choice as as much as that will wrench my heart in two, I have to accept that.

ziv2

GoatGirl - wow this sounds very similar to my situation. Thanks for the response... that's great you were able to get your boyfriend into a rehab center... I hope everything works out with yourself, and hopefully your boyfriend will commit to treatment, and to living a sober life. I guess I need to follow in your footsteps, and need to start accepting that I can TRY to help my b/f, but if he does not want help, I can not force it upon him.

I also feel your pain of having to worry about weather or not he will start drinking again after rehab. I often worry about that very idea myself - if he were to get treatment - how agonizing it is going to be having to worry if he is going to give in and start drinking again?

First thing is first though... and I wish I could just drop my boyfriend off at a rehab center.. but I have inquired with the ones in my area, and it sounds like they have a pretty involved intake process, and require insurance or payment. Unfortunately b/f does not have insurance anymore, and I do not know if he has enough money to pay for it himself. Like I mentioned, our county has a subsidized treatment program that I would really like to get him in... but after calling to inquire about it, they indicate HE has to be the one to initiate the appointment; other than that, it was like pulling teeth trying to get these people to inform me about this program.

ziv2

Sorry, I misspoke on that statement. What I meant was that I think he used his situation as an excuse for his drinking.. not the other way around. He used his "situation" as an excuse for going back to the bottle, but in reality, he hadn't been fully treated for his alcoholism (as bad as he was.. I don't think that 2 weeks of rehab was nearly enough recovery time)

Anyways thank you for the book recommendation .. I have been reading since I got home from work today, and am most of the way through the book already! I had already held the belief that alcoholism is a disease... but it makes much more sense now, and it was also very interesting to hear the medical evidence behind it being a disease, Thanks again!

ziv2

After completing the book "Under the Influence".. one thing has been really bothering me. So I read that a large part of alcoholism being a disease... is the alcoholic processes alcohol differently than the non-alcoholics. They mentioned there were tests that proved alcoholics (even before they started drinking), had different reactions to acetaldehyde.

So I don't understand why Doctor's can't just test for this "reaction to acetaldehyde" at an early age, so people predisposed to alcoholism can learn to live a sober lifestyle before this addiction reaches later stages, and alcohol becomes more difficult to detach from. I'm sure it would be much easier to not drink to begin with.. than to have to reach the middle to late stages of alcohol before receiving treatment! (Not to say this would prevent all cases of alcholism from turning destructive and deadly.. but I think better societal awareness of the facts of the disease could greatly decrease the rate of alcoholism's problems in our society)

It just seems like alcoholism is such a big problem that is still being ignored and misconceived by society.

Florence

Ziv, from what I understand, the magic trifecta that usually has to happen for people to develop full blown addiction is the genetic component, an environment where getting high is acceptable and normal (a drug culture, a codependent household, a "bad neighborhood," a family of addicts), and access to drugs and alcohol.

My AH, for example, had all three. Alcoholism is on both sides of his family, he grew up in a highly codependent household, and he had access to his parents' alcohol and money while growing up, and because they were codependent, they turned a blind eye, denied he had a problem, chalked it up to "boys being boys." Even when he was getting out of rehab #2, they kind of doubted the seriousness of his problem.

TakingCharge999

Ziv2

I feel for you, I also had an active alcoholic as a boyfriend. Its heart-breaking.

I read in your posts a lot of "maybe if.. "

Is this a life that you want to live...? stuck in 'potentials" that might never become reality...?

When I was feeling this way I started going to AA meetings as a respectful visitor - the guys there welcomed me, hearing their stories was eye opening.. their comments to me were priceless. I went to AA because one was closer to home than Alanon. I did not know what to expect but it helped me a great deal, to know I was not alone. It helped me understand my helplessness towards the disease, but empowered me to make healthier decisions for myself. You have to start thinking about YOU and all you are losing out (I know I was losing my enthusiasm for living).

AA, Alanon, CODA, therapy, Melody Beatty books, SR, family and friends in real life helped me change my situation. I do not know what happened to the ex, went no contact, but I do remember seeing one older man at AA / he was yellow / his eyes were the saddest I have ever seen. The toll of addiction... he helped me understand, the toll is way too high; you pay with your very life. I did not want that future for myself.

((Hugs)) His fate is in HP's hands, not yours.