Choice vs. helplessness
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 14
Choice vs. helplessness
Sorry in advance for asking this question; the answer may be obvious but not to me.
if we know alcoholism is a disease, and that the A is helpless, and powerless, then how is it a choice for them to be an A vs. an RA?
i've read many times here: it was the A's choice to drink, it was their choice to do this, that.
can someone please enlighten me, a clueless individual?
thanks!
if we know alcoholism is a disease, and that the A is helpless, and powerless, then how is it a choice for them to be an A vs. an RA?
i've read many times here: it was the A's choice to drink, it was their choice to do this, that.
can someone please enlighten me, a clueless individual?
thanks!
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 326
Diabetes is a disease, but it can be controlled with insulin, diet and exercise. The diabetic has the choice to monitor his blood sugar levels, eat right and exercise.
Or the diabetic can choose to play deny they are diabetic and play games with his diet and 'forget' to monitor his blood sugar, and can lie etc...
It's a disease with a choice.
And the powerless part is--they are powerless to prevent the alcohol from hurting them, not that they are powerless over the choice of whether to drink or not. Only that if they drink, they are powerless to stop the negative consequences. Alcohol's effects are stronger than their will. They have full power to choice not to drink, however.
Or the diabetic can choose to play deny they are diabetic and play games with his diet and 'forget' to monitor his blood sugar, and can lie etc...
It's a disease with a choice.
And the powerless part is--they are powerless to prevent the alcohol from hurting them, not that they are powerless over the choice of whether to drink or not. Only that if they drink, they are powerless to stop the negative consequences. Alcohol's effects are stronger than their will. They have full power to choice not to drink, however.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
When someone is addicted to alcohol, their mind and body craves alcohol. A craving is a craving. Alcohol is legal in the U.S. and other parts of the world. It is socialable acceptable. People often/will dismiss alcoholic behavior as having a good time, or too much fun. Addiction is addiction be it herion, or alcohol.
In my situation, the active alkie was too deep into his addiction to rationally see there was a problem. He could no longer control himself, he was out of control, his life was out of control, my life became unmananagable ,and spiraled out of control.
A wonderful member shared her story, and what I learned from her (and it made so much sense), she stated. "It's as if I crossed an invisible line." It was a near death experience that saved her life. It got me thinking, why would you seek help for a problem you don't even have........... and this is why I hate this effin disease........
P.S. Sadheart I felt the exact way you do, just CHOOSE to stop. But something was always missing from that scenerio, and when Laurie shared her story it was so similiar to what I had lived, it helped me gain additional insight to this disease.
In my situation, the active alkie was too deep into his addiction to rationally see there was a problem. He could no longer control himself, he was out of control, his life was out of control, my life became unmananagable ,and spiraled out of control.
A wonderful member shared her story, and what I learned from her (and it made so much sense), she stated. "It's as if I crossed an invisible line." It was a near death experience that saved her life. It got me thinking, why would you seek help for a problem you don't even have........... and this is why I hate this effin disease........
P.S. Sadheart I felt the exact way you do, just CHOOSE to stop. But something was always missing from that scenerio, and when Laurie shared her story it was so similiar to what I had lived, it helped me gain additional insight to this disease.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
I am an alcoholic/addict, albeit one in recovery. That is a fact. I can't change the fact that I have a disease.
What I do can do is accept responsibility to arrest that disease by being proactive in my own recovery.
The help available out there is vast. 12-step meetings are free. There are many resources such as rational recovery, therapists, counselors, all sorts of rehabs.
Now if I do choose to pick up that first drink again, all bets are off on what may happen. I know this because I drank again after 4 years in recovery. Once I pick that first one up, I have lost the power of choice. I had to hit a bottom for a second time in order to embrace recovery again.
What I do can do is accept responsibility to arrest that disease by being proactive in my own recovery.
The help available out there is vast. 12-step meetings are free. There are many resources such as rational recovery, therapists, counselors, all sorts of rehabs.
Now if I do choose to pick up that first drink again, all bets are off on what may happen. I know this because I drank again after 4 years in recovery. Once I pick that first one up, I have lost the power of choice. I had to hit a bottom for a second time in order to embrace recovery again.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Cleveland, OH
Posts: 1,191
Forgive me if it is not appropriate to chime in here. I am not a friend or family but am a recovered alcoholic myself.
I am a firm believer in what the Big Book of AA tells us regarding choice. An alcoholic of the type they describe in the book has a two fold illness. One side being the physical craving. When I have booze in my body I react differently than a normal drinker. The simplest way to explain it is that the more I drink the thirstier I get. The other side to the illness is the mental obsession. This causes me to take that first drink over and over again regardless of the fact that my history has proven that I cannot control my liqour consumption. THe memory of the suffering and humiliation caused by my last binge is not sufficient to keep me from justifying another drink. Without the help of a power greater than myself I am helpless. I do not have the choice to drink or not. I chose not to drink a million mornings and by 2 or 3 in the afternoon I was drinking again.
I am recovered. Sober for 4 years and I still do not have the power to choose not to drink. I do have many choices though. I have the choice to take the actions necessary for a power greater than me to keep me free from the obsession to drink. I had the choice over 4 years ago to take the actions suggested to me by men and women who had recovered.
An alcoholic needs to be held accountable for their actions and choices. THe illness is not an excuse. Part of the AA program is owning up to that fact and taking responsinility because ultimately it was my choice to not take action to have my problem removed sooner. So it is was not my choice to drink or not, but it was my choice to seek help.
Sorry for the rambling.
God bless all of you!
I am a firm believer in what the Big Book of AA tells us regarding choice. An alcoholic of the type they describe in the book has a two fold illness. One side being the physical craving. When I have booze in my body I react differently than a normal drinker. The simplest way to explain it is that the more I drink the thirstier I get. The other side to the illness is the mental obsession. This causes me to take that first drink over and over again regardless of the fact that my history has proven that I cannot control my liqour consumption. THe memory of the suffering and humiliation caused by my last binge is not sufficient to keep me from justifying another drink. Without the help of a power greater than myself I am helpless. I do not have the choice to drink or not. I chose not to drink a million mornings and by 2 or 3 in the afternoon I was drinking again.
I am recovered. Sober for 4 years and I still do not have the power to choose not to drink. I do have many choices though. I have the choice to take the actions necessary for a power greater than me to keep me free from the obsession to drink. I had the choice over 4 years ago to take the actions suggested to me by men and women who had recovered.
An alcoholic needs to be held accountable for their actions and choices. THe illness is not an excuse. Part of the AA program is owning up to that fact and taking responsinility because ultimately it was my choice to not take action to have my problem removed sooner. So it is was not my choice to drink or not, but it was my choice to seek help.
Sorry for the rambling.
God bless all of you!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
I believe we all have freedom of choice, including alcoholics. I am addicted to nicotine, and I continue to smoke despite consequences. That sure doesn't relieve me of the personal responsibility of my actions, and I alone am responsible should I find out that I have lung cancer because of it. I am not powerless, it is a choice to continue, albeit a very bad choice.
The alcoholic is not powerless, but they are powerless once they put the first sip to their lips on any given day. That's why they say --one day at a time. That's why they say one drink is too many, ten drinks isn't enough.
We all have freedom of choice. Being an alcoholic relieves nobody of the responsibility of their actions.
The alcoholic is not powerless, but they are powerless once they put the first sip to their lips on any given day. That's why they say --one day at a time. That's why they say one drink is too many, ten drinks isn't enough.
We all have freedom of choice. Being an alcoholic relieves nobody of the responsibility of their actions.
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: "I'm not lost for I know where I am. But however, where I am may be lost ..."
Posts: 5,273
xapodi,
There are some wonderful responses here. I respect all of them. I just wanted to add that not everyone subscribes to the disease model of addiction or to the concept of powerlessness. Many successfully recover without accepting this mindest in any way, shape, or form. In fact, in my case, I recovered only when I stopped accepting those concepts and focused solely on personal responsibility.
There are some wonderful responses here. I respect all of them. I just wanted to add that not everyone subscribes to the disease model of addiction or to the concept of powerlessness. Many successfully recover without accepting this mindest in any way, shape, or form. In fact, in my case, I recovered only when I stopped accepting those concepts and focused solely on personal responsibility.
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: In Today
Posts: 6,101
Sadheart said it very well.
You see I am a Diabetic. Given some tools to use DAILY and following the Doctor's orders, I have been able to keep my diabetes in 'check' and am almost to a point of have it in remission. That will NEVER CHANGE I am a diabetic and I will always be a diabetic. If I don't use the tools, the repercussions from the diabetes will kill me.
Now I am also an addict. Addicted to alcohol and drugs. There again, I have been given some tools to keep my addiction in 'check' as long as I make the choice to USE THOSE TOOLS DAILY. If I don't use the tools I will go back to 'using' and I will die.
Both of those options, to choose to work the tools or not, are VERY DEAR to me, because you see in order to get sober and clean, I DID DIE.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-my-story.html
I was given a second chance and I do not believe there are any more chances left for me.
I do believe that the 'choice' of the A is to LIVE or TO DIE. Whether one believes alcoholism is a disease or not. The final choice is to STOP USING and maybe have a pretty good life, what is left of it, or CONTINUE USING, have a crappy life and die in agony. If and when the 'addiction' brings the A to the point of being 'sick and tired of being sick and tired' is when the A can make that choice. However, while they stay in denial, their addiction will continue to keep them numb.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
You see I am a Diabetic. Given some tools to use DAILY and following the Doctor's orders, I have been able to keep my diabetes in 'check' and am almost to a point of have it in remission. That will NEVER CHANGE I am a diabetic and I will always be a diabetic. If I don't use the tools, the repercussions from the diabetes will kill me.
Now I am also an addict. Addicted to alcohol and drugs. There again, I have been given some tools to keep my addiction in 'check' as long as I make the choice to USE THOSE TOOLS DAILY. If I don't use the tools I will go back to 'using' and I will die.
Both of those options, to choose to work the tools or not, are VERY DEAR to me, because you see in order to get sober and clean, I DID DIE.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-my-story.html
I was given a second chance and I do not believe there are any more chances left for me.
I do believe that the 'choice' of the A is to LIVE or TO DIE. Whether one believes alcoholism is a disease or not. The final choice is to STOP USING and maybe have a pretty good life, what is left of it, or CONTINUE USING, have a crappy life and die in agony. If and when the 'addiction' brings the A to the point of being 'sick and tired of being sick and tired' is when the A can make that choice. However, while they stay in denial, their addiction will continue to keep them numb.
J M H O
Love and hugs,
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