wynter

Hi,
Just read a few of cynical one's blogs and it's saw myself smack dab in the middle of the one on codependents...

"It is said that codependents don't have relationships -- they take hostages. At the core of this behavior is the fear of losing control within themselves. THEY MUST CONTROL EVERYTHING OUTSIDE OF THEM IN ORDER TO FEEL SAFE.

The healing process for codependency begins with the person admitting that they are the other half of the problem within a dysfunctional relationship, that trying to control others and live their lives for them and save them is a formula for failure."

Ohhhh my, I have done this with my relationship with RA. I'm a classic codependent. Going to go to alanon this week. Absolutely have to start working on these concepts.

I need advice here, though...RA still not talking to me. I am getting it even more where he is coming from. I have not sent any more emails or texts or called since sunday. I do want him to see that I am working on this, though, for what its worth to our relationship. Was thinking of just simply sending him this quote and letting him know I am working on myself.

More codie controlling behavior? Or a good idea? I am feeling so very guilty of the mess I've made here also. See that it is not all him as I tried to paint it previously.

Any thoughts/advice much appreciated.

Pelican

I learned, through the members here, that I need to ask myself what my motivation is for taking such action.

Am I hoping to create a reaction?
What reaction am I hoping for?
What if I get a different reaction?

The last question also is known as *playing the tape forward*.

In this case, you are hoping to show that you are aware of your own negative actions in the relationship. But his reaction may not be what you want. It may have a negative effect. He may even think you are pointing out more of his flaws in a passive manner.

How about doing what we want from our addicts:

Show them with your actions, not your words.

Work the kind of recovery program that you hope they will work.

Wishing you success in your recovery!

Pelican

If you are interested in participating in a daily reading on Codependency; we have an active link here at SR.

The daily readings are from "Language of Letting Go" by Melody Beattie. Members then offer their victories/challenges based on the daily reading.

Click to the last page to get the current reading:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...part-25-a.html

Titanic

If it were me, I wouldn't send it. Believe me, they already know we care ... that we care too much ... and that we will go to great lengths for them.

Go to Al-Anon. Work and live your recovery. Do it for YOU. It's not selfishness; it's self-care. When you get healthy, the chances of others getting healthy improve.

wynter

Yes, realizing I have to do this for me, b/c it's a self-destructing behavior that I have been doing not just with him. Unfortunately, I am feeling he helps to bring it out in me b/c of his addiction.

I do want a reaction...and know that it may be still nothing at all. But, I am feeling very badly about how I have grasped onto him, and am willing to take my share of the blame for it. Thing is, he won't be able to see my actions if we don't see each other, and right now doesn't have a clue that I'm even looking at myself in this light -- i.e., alanon and codependency issues.

Re-reading the email I did send, it sounds controlling, and it's no wonder he is still staying away.

If I share it with him, just that quote and that I'm working on myself, is that too much?

Titanic

"Check your motives" is an Al-Anon saying.

It seems as though you are trying to evoke in him some change of attitude or action by sharing it. That is part of codependency - the obsession with affecting or controlling someone else's behavior or state.

Al-Anon is for YOU. Do it for YOU. Don't do it expecting to change him.

Steps 9 & 10 are a long way away yet ... too early in the program to say I had codependency issues ... especially as you haven't been to meetings yet.

IMHO.

wynter

I am doing it for ME. If I don't I won't be happy in any relationship. Yes, it sounds codie to want to let him know...motives, I'm guessing are that I feel very guilty on the part I played in our fight; I don't want him to think of me that way; I want to let him know so even if he still doesn't respond (good chance) I can then know that I've shown him something positive, and then move on knowing that he is not capable of understanding...again, lowering my expectations. A start, anyhow.

If I don't share with him this will gnaw at me that I destroyed this relationship with my behavior.

SadHeart

Yes, I think it's more codie controlling behavior. It's no different from when they say they want help and will go to treatment/start a program/cut down, etc.... We get all hopeful and are ready to put ourselves 'on hold' for this miracle.

What's better is they just do it and we notice for ourselves that they have changed. If it happens. Which usually it doesn't.

You want a reaction from him; what reactions do you want? That he get all hopeful about you? Or...?

You probably won't get the reaction you want. He's been blaming you for his problems, but it's just alkie quack-quack. Addicts don't really want their codie's to get better, they want their enablers to work harder to enable them. There's never enough enabling to suit a alcoholic.

So while he might start off with an "I told you so, you are so f'ed up, more than me even and the cause of all my problems" as soon as it hits him that your working on yourself means boundaries against him, less enabling, and more backbone from you--he will start undermining you. It's very common for the alkie to disparage Al-Anon and counseling for the codie.

Leave him out of your treatment. It's not a bargaining chip in your relationship with him. It's actually got nothing to do with your relationship with him. It has only to do with your relationship with yourself.

SadHeart

Taking responsibility for your behavior and making amends and all that comes later in the process for a reason. You have to understand what you did wrong and what your role in the relationship was. Can you honestly say you are at that point right now?

Also, if he isn't responding to your attempts to contact him, maybe you should respect that. He doesn't want to communicate with you right now, he wants his space. Maybe there's more dignity for both of you to leave him alone.

SadHeart

What's the point of him knowing? Are you under the illusion that he'll sleep easier at night knowing?

If you never see each other again, it won't matter, you can deal with the issue when you reach step 8 and 9 making amends.

If you do see each other, then he will notice a difference by your performance and may ask about it (or not care) or may be annoyed by it (big possibility, alkies do not like their codies getting healthy as a general rule).

There's no point in contacting him with this information when you suspect he's gone no contact with you.

ZiggyB

Wynter... I don't know.

I often found that when I would send emails like that to axbf they would backfire on me and he would say he didn't want to hear about my problems. Realizing what problems you caused in a relationship are good for you to take note of, but it generally takes two people to make a mess. I know I was struggling with feelings of guilt, I should have done this, I should have done that... but in the end it was not going to work no matter what I did.

Also I agree with SadHeart, if he doesn't want to talk to you I wouldn't press the issue.

mihgab

Hi wynter!
Once we start doubting ourselves, we are back wondering, questioning, all the ings there can be...
Make a decision and stick to it. See what happens.You are a grown up, you suffer the consequences good or bad. It is hard, but take it one step at a time .You are going to "fall", but stand up and try again...this is life anyway...with or without alcoholics...we have to make choices: good or bad.
Good Luck
Make it this time about you...see what happens
Peace

wynter

I think I was hoping someone would say ok... I just have a hard time wrapping myself around the logistics of the alcoholic/codependent relationship. Think what I'm doing right now is looking at it from a 'normie' perspective, in that if I was in the midst of a fight/argument with a good friend, I would want her to know how I felt, and try and smooth things over. It's not my nature to simply sit back (I know, controlling again), but I don't look at it that way, esp. when I know in my heart I was very wrong. I would want to try and mend the friendship, and then after exhausting my efforts I would say ok then that's that.

Just me. Yes, it still would hurt, but then I'd know that the impasse was too big to cross, and I'd let go.

Right now I really don't feel ok with myself about this. Maybe I should sit back another day or two tho...might be too early to send it anyway.

And, yes, he might still blame me, and now he has me agreeing with him that I did xy & z. That's what he did with his ex-wife...all her fault for the demise of his marriage.

It's all so very confusing. Im going to alanon on monday evening...wish I could find a meeting sooner.

mdkathy62

Good afternoon wynter,

Thank you for sharing. I've found in my experience, despite what anyone says, I tend to do what I want to do, and, ultimately, I had to learn on my own whether I should have or shouldn't have sent an email, text, or made a phone call. I don't know where you are in your recovery, but I can tell you about my experiences.

I can reiterate the quote I heard in an Al-Anon meeting "Expectations are premeditated resentments". When I started learning all these new character defects I had, I wanted to share it with my ex. My hope was that he would see that I, too, am open to addressing my problems and know that it's a two way street and hoped that it would motivate him to keep going to AA. That was my hope, my expectation, and when he reacted by going to AA less and less and ignoring me more and more, I resented him very much. I thought man, what an ungrateful man, here I am this wonderful person admitting I have flaws and he could care less about working on his. Yes, very self-centered of me. There was no actual altruism in what I was doing. I was rubbing it in his face that I'm willing to change and he is not, but looking back on that behavior, that was not any indication that I was willing to change. That was simply an indication that I wanted to want to change, and, therefore, use it to "win" the arguments with him, but my actions didn't fully support it. I kind of sort of went to Al-Anon and read SR. I was, yet again, being controlling and trying to control the outcome of HIS recovery, rather than my own.

Now that we are broken up, I know that he has stopped going to AA and I have started to really go to Al-Anon. Sometimes I think about broadcasting it via fb just so he can see it in his newsfeed that I'm going, or sometimes I think about texting him and such, but what will that do for ME really?? It will make me feel better that once again, I had to make him feel like I was better than him. I had to really reexamine why it's so important for me to put him down to make myself feel better, even if it seems like something as innocent as telling him that I'm in recovery. It's important for me because I have low self-esteem.

I've found that I exhibit a lot of the same behaviors that I accuse him of. I say he's manipulative, but telling him hey, I'm working on Al-Anon and expecting him to go back to AA or to react a certain way...really and truly, that IS manipulative too. It took me a long time to admit that, me manipulative?? Never! When I do something that is meant purely for me and I don't have the need to flaunt it, that's when it does not feel manipulative. That's when it's strictly for me. And that's when I know I'm building my self-esteem. I no longer need his stamp of approval of what I'm doing. That's when I know that slowly, but surely, I am not letting him control my life, how I communicate, what I do etc. My happiness does NOT depend on him giving me a pat on the back or giving me praise.

wynter

Hi Kathy,
I appreciate you sharing your story. It is very helpful. I'm tryin to understand myself here, my motives in why I want to let him know. Here's what I came up with, and hope I'm not deluding myself.

He is very active in his recovery. Very active in his spirituality. Donates his time, is working very hard. Yes, he has more to do on himself. I have been supportive of him with all of this, even attending church and church functions. They have been good for me also. We read a lot of books together, go to church book club groups also. Meditate together. Up until now I have never expressed an interest in getting help for myself. Yes, I've talked about therapy (which I did years ago), but that's about it. Looking back I think the message that was sent was it's him and his stuff, and yes, I'm angry at times, but that's just me and why can't you give me a break when I get like that?? Really think that's where we are at.

Of course he can't give me a break. Probably resents me for my anger, in that it usually is blamed on something he did or didn't do.

If he sees that I am looking at myself and wanting to do the work, I think he will be interested in it. I don't believe he will think I am pointing out more flaws in him, on the contrary. He will see it as a positive, and something concrete.

I'm basing this on our relationship, and the things we've done together to build our individual selves up to something more. He is very open in that regard...that's why I think he will be receptive.

Yes, unequivocally, I still need to do this for ME, even if he doesn't care.

SadHeart

Why unequivocally? It's not a healthy thing for you to do. And why does it have to be done now? Why not wait until you have worked up to step 8 and 9 and can do it right?

All codependent behavior is done NOT for the addict but for ourselves, to relieve ourselves of uncomfortable feelings or prop ourselves up. We tell ourselves, others, and the addict that we are doing it for them, but we are doing it for ourselves under the cloak of false nobility.

You say you want to do this for yourself. How is this any different from all the other codie things you've done? You asked if this is was more codie behavior? The answer is unanimously yes. The question is: why continue the codie behavior with this email? All you've done is changed the nobility cloak to one of a different color, instead of saying you are doing it for his good, you are saying you are doing it for your good. It's like exchanging the Jack Daniels for Vodka.

But it's still codie behavior. Isn't it codie behavior you want to get away from? Maybe make this be the first step.

And then there's still the other issue. He doesn't want to hear from you, and you know this and aren't respecting it. Normal healthy relationships are reciprocal. You write him, he writes you. If you write and he doesn't respond and you keep writing, you are out of bounds, you are being a pest and a nag--it doesn't matter what the message is. The overarching message becomes: I will not be ignored, whether that's your intention or not.

If you absolutely MUST write him this email, at least wait until after he contacts you again. Respect his distance.

ZiggyB

This is very true. I had written my axbf an email and he got angry at me for sending it because we had agreed to no contact. My intentions were good, but I definitely did not get the response I was hoping for and later I just regretted it. Felt like a pest. Letting go is hard, especially when there are more things you want to say (

fluffyflea

Just go about your business which is you and take care of you.

wynter

Thank you all for your responses. I admit I wish they would have been different!! Yes, more codie behavior. Struggling here. Reality is he hasn't responded...what he always does. Many, many times. No finality. No talk about no contact. It's just silence which is horrible.

I know he is processing it all, being judge and jury, deciding my fate. Doubtful sending another email will **** him off more than he already is. The email I sent was in retrospect not anything that he will respond to. I see that too late.

I wish I could get angry at him for being so cold hearted, it might be easier to cope.

fluffyflea

By changing our actions and ourselves situations around us change.