Do I stay?

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Old 11-13-2012, 07:51 PM
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Exclamation Do I stay?

I have a 9 year relationship with my now ex boyfriend who is an alcoholic. He went into outpatient rehab to keep me, and then relapsed in a huge way 6 months later...leading to a very emotional night where I almost called the police to ensure my safety (he is a mean drunk). That was a month ago and the end of our relationship and our living together. We've been talking and have spent time together in the past week or so...I am completely still in love with this man and torn by what I should do. He decided (on his own this time) to put himself into an inpatient rehab for the next 6-12months, he's quitting his job (he was a very functional alchoholic and held it 10 yrs), having his car repossessed, everything...stating that he wants to get his life better, that he doesn't want to drink anymore...that he wants to be the man I deserve. He wants to stay in contact while he's there and get married in the future...and he's scared that he'll lose me and our family (I have a daughter from a previous relationship and he's been the only father she's ever known). I don't know what to do...my heart says wait for him and support him through treatment. I've been going to Al-Anon meetings since he toppled from his wagon and they felt I should let him go and not continue to have him in my life...i'm completely torn...advice please?
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:07 PM
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Read Chapter 32 of the Al-Anon book How Al-Anon Works. Consider working the Al-Anon program 6-9 months before making any major decisions (unless there's domestic violence or abuse - See the section right after the book's "Preface" titled "A Special Word to Anyone Confronted with Violence"). That will give your recovery a chance while he spends it in inpatient rehab (i.e., away from you given his "mean drunk" past behavior).

Give the program, and time, time to work.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:32 PM
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Do you have to decide today?

Could you just work on you (and taking care of your daughter) and let him work on him and, take everything one day at a time and see where the recovery journey takes you all?
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:35 PM
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We are asked not to give advice on this forum, but since you ask for it I'll give you my two cents--take it for what's it's worth, it's just the opinion of one very flawed person.

I don't think people should ever be in a relationship with an active alcoholic. I think association with alcoholics are so toxic that they poison the people around them. They destroy lives and don't care or even notice. They damage they do is so comprehensive it can take years or even a lifetime to recovery. I don't care what anyone says, even if the relationship ultimately works out, staying changes the partner. And the damage is so insidious that you often don't see it until it's too late. And for children to be around it--I consider it child abuse (my children were around it for 5, 4, and 2 years).

And here's the thing: staying doesn't help one bit. The very best you can hope for, the very BEST, is that your staying has no effect. Usually your staying--no matter how much they beg--hurts them.

You say he's a mean drunk? You say you were scared of him? You have a child? He's only going to rehab to 'keep you' (meaning he will ultimately fail at recovery)? He says he wants to be the man YOU deserve rather than the man he wants and deserves to be for himself? This is all bad news.

You say your heart tells you to wait for him and support him? Well, it was your heart that got you in this predicament.

He's going to go into treatment for 6-12 months and is going to come out unemployed and needy.

You want to 'wait' for him? Put your life on hold, let other opportunities disappear, for what? Read through this forum, how many relationships break up when the alkie decides he doesn't want it any more while he's away. Read how many threads by how disappointing the relationship is for the codie when the alkie finally sobers up and stays sobered up. Read about the relapse rates and the 20 year success rates. Understand that they don't come back 'fixed', they come back sober--sometimes--but with all the problems and character flaws they went in with. That meanness, in the mean drunk stuff, will still be there somewhere, after he comes back sober. It's not the alcohol that created it, it's only the alcohol that unleashed it.

Are RAs loveable? Of course. Are there people who will write that they are so glad they stuck with their RA throughout the whole ordeal? Of course, and their stories are valid (altho I suspect pretty rare)? Are their adult children of alcoholics who will tell you how much they loved their alkie parent and think they were better off living with him/her? There has to be some. Is there hope? Yep. But....

People win the lottery too. Some actually beat the odds at the casino.

Truly--and of course this is just my worthless opinion, so disregard if you want--but I think the best thing is to kiss him good bye, wish him luck, make no promises or commitments, not even to call once a week or answer emails, and move on, work on yourself, improve your life independently of him, completely independently of him....and when he's out, when he's got a job, a home, a life, and a lot of time of sobriety and successful living under his belt--then, and only then, can you consider bringing him back into your life.

It's not healthy for him to depend or rely on you. He has to learn how to be sober WITHOUT you before he can be sober with you.

And you can't wait for him to work it all out, just as you don't wait for the lottery before you pay your bills.

If you two really love each other, and it's not an unhealthy enmeshment of wounded psyches, you WILL find each other again once you have BOTH demonstrated healthy living.

You asked for it, it's just my opinion, and feel free to ignore it.

I've loved 4 alcoholics, except for my son, I regret the time I put into all of them. I should have walked away from them much much earlier, and even my son, I should have dropped the rope much sooner.

Good luck to you.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:39 PM
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Loveblossom, Let me ask you this.

If today is the best it can ever be for you and him, would you stay? Is today an acceptable standard of life for you?

There is a real possiblility that this is as good as it ever will get.

Abuse is a dealbreaker for me. I have heard it said " We often give the alcohol too much credit." There is a real possibility he is abusive mean asshat, when sober.

Save you and your child.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:43 PM
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I found a test like this helpful:

Self Test, Stay or Leave

In my case, most of the answers pointed to leaving.
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Old 11-13-2012, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by djayr View Post
I found a test like this helpful:

Self Test, Stay or Leave

In my case, most of the answers pointed to leaving.
Another one is "Too Bad to Stay, Too Good to Leave".
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:41 AM
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Advice...

He had his chance... The promise of rehab and its magical properties are indeed alluring..

He will stop drinking( for a time) and trust me after rehab then what ? Hes magically a " new man " ?

It can be even worse sober as its a long long road one fraught with many potholes..

I was in the same situation as you and said goodbye. Six months later (NO CONTACT) Im the happiest and most at peace Ive been in ages. I met someone who indeed treats me with love and respect. Its like night and day..

Look after you here - there called fairy tales for a reason.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:24 AM
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You didn't say this but I am wondering if he is trying to get you to agree now to your future. I kind of suspect that he is.

I like the others really hope you don't put your life on hold for the next 6 months to a year. Like anyone who would choose to go to treatment I would hope for him that he is successful. If he is you will not know this person when he comes out, a Sober drunk is a new human. Sobriety does not change all - it isn't a magic pill. They have issues like all of us. My AH sober is far more difficult than when drinking. Perhaps difficult isn't the right word, he is more needy. Needs more attention, support, motivation and is unsure of himself way too often. Drinking he feels better about himself is more self reliant and not as clingy. When drinking he has also been more aggressive and mean.

I agree with Titanic - you don't have to make any kind of decision now. I think if mine were to go to Inpatient the only way he would which would be to an extract a promise out of me that when he got out we had a future. I don't like to lie, and I wouldn't in this situation. I would; however, avoid a direct answer (I am the avoider lol) by saying how proud I was that he had made this step, that he was doing something that was good for him and how much I admired that he had decided to change his life. Those statements are true.

I have had a relationship with only one alcoholic - him. It will be the last. Never, NEVER NEVER NEVER again.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:42 AM
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Thanks everyone. I've actually not spoken with him since right after the Al anon meeting (that I went to because the things he was saying were leading me to think that he was going to propose and I didn't know what to do about my feelings surrounding that). I've enjoyed the silence between us, because I get a break from the drama, but at the same time I really miss him (just for reference it's been one day, lol). He's never hit me (or been abusive), he just is very intense and in your face with yelling when drunk (he's very strong, black belt). I took the quiz that was posted...with mixed results, basically stating that since he accepts his alcoholism and is going to head to treatment, there is a possibility of us working out. I guess I'm just mourning the loss of how I thought our relationship would progress...and not wanting to give up on him...if wanting to have our future together motivates him to recover, isn't that a good thing? I'm just so confused right now
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:53 AM
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You don't need to decide anything today. In fact, he is leaving for 6-12 months so you have a loonnnnggggg time to think and get yourself in order before there is even a chance that he will be out.

What I would do (I am a recovering addict dating a recovering addict whom I live with) is to take it day by day and work on yourself and let him do him. Maybe after a year of you going to meetings and working on yourself and doing what makes YOU happy you won't even want to even talk to him nevermind have a future with him. Him leaving for an extended amount of time is the best thing for both of you. It is really hard to make a decision of whether you want to stay with someone when you don't have the space to grow personally or the abilty to look at the situation objectively (its REALLY hard to be objective when you live with the person or see them everyday).

No matter what you do, do it for YOU not for him. Have you thought about going no contact while he is gone this way he can focus on him and you can focus on you and your child?
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:47 AM
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He went into outpatient rehab to keep me, and then relapsed in a huge way 6 months later...leading to a very emotional night where I almost called the police to ensure my safety (he is a mean drunk).
The first part I bolded because unless he goes into rehab to change his life for himself, it will not work. A person who goes into rehab to keep someone else will stay sober just as long as it takes for them to know that they've actually kept this someone else.

The second part I bolded because I want you to ask yourself if this is what you want your daughter to grow up with as an example of loving interaction between adults?

He might get sober.
He might not.
When I was contemplating whether to stay or go, an Al-Anon veteran said to me, "would you want to live the rest of your life in this situation if the situation continued to be exactly like it is today? THAT is the question you have to ask yourself. You can't make decisions based on what you hope might happen in the future. You have to base your decisions in reality."

Edited to add: My AXH was also a mean and abusive drunk. Just so you know, I know how hard it is to love a Jekyll & Hyde person. But you do get both. You can't choose the nice Dr. only.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:18 AM
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I have to agree with Sadheart here. My RA and I were only dating about 9 months when he went off to inpatient rehab. Thought it would be a short stint..was there 7 long months. During that time I stayed and was truly his only friend. It was not easy, and that's an understatement. He was surly, bitter, angry...everything I knew him to be disappeared during that 7 mos. Many times I thought about going no contact, ending it, but kept on b/c I had stayed this far and was afraid that if I said goodbye it would mess up his recovery and he might relapse.

When he came out I was so excited, very hopeful to resume our relationship. IT WAS NEVER THE SAME. It was like they took a part of his brain and god only knows who was in there now. Mood swings, defensive, irritable, mean...it was depressing to be around him. I can't tell you how many times I have said to myself, 'you should have left back then.'

You have a long time invested in this relationship, yes. Still, I'd think long and hard about putting your life on hold for him. I wanted to be there for him...and that's why I did it. In retrospect I now see by doing that I had only hurt myself.

Take the time to make this good for YOU.

ps...my RA sober...no relapses 2 years...doesn't matter, still an alcoholic with all the uglies.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:37 PM
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Thank you everyone for your experience...it's much needed and I do read and think about what you say. I spoke with a co-worker about this today and she said what about being in contact with the facility/program and only participating when they decide it's appropriate (so he wouldn't know going in that I was involved at all)...I'm going to call the facility tomorrow to ask about that sort of thing. I know family therapy is a part of the treatment (a few months in, no contact for about 3 mo in the beginning), and I feel like it would be best to have a professional lead us through re-entry (if I want to even be involved at the end of the no contact period)...thoughts?
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:05 PM
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Personally, I would leave him to his own recovery..........

I would take this time to get myself to a better place. I would read, and educate myself about alcoholism and addiction . I think you are going to need ever available tool and resource to help you decide what is best for YOU.

There just are no guarantees with recovery, the odds are not favorable. Keep searching for your right answer.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:20 PM
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agree

Originally Posted by SadHeart View Post
We are asked not to give advice on this forum, but since you ask for it I'll give you my two cents--take it for what's it's worth, it's just the opinion of one very flawed person.

I don't think people should ever be in a relationship with an active alcoholic. I think association with alcoholics are so toxic that they poison the people around them. They destroy lives and don't care or even notice. They damage they do is so comprehensive it can take years or even a lifetime to recovery. I don't care what anyone says, even if the relationship ultimately works out, staying changes the partner. And the damage is so insidious that you often don't see it until it's too late. And for children to be around it--I consider it child abuse (my children were around it for 5, 4, and 2 years).

And here's the thing: staying doesn't help one bit. The very best you can hope for, the very BEST, is that your staying has no effect. Usually your staying--no matter how much they beg--hurts them.

You say he's a mean drunk? You say you were scared of him? You have a child? He's only going to rehab to 'keep you' (meaning he will ultimately fail at recovery)? He says he wants to be the man YOU deserve rather than the man he wants and deserves to be for himself? This is all bad news.

You say your heart tells you to wait for him and support him? Well, it was your heart that got you in this predicament.

He's going to go into treatment for 6-12 months and is going to come out unemployed and needy.

You want to 'wait' for him? Put your life on hold, let other opportunities disappear, for what? Read through this forum, how many relationships break up when the alkie decides he doesn't want it any more while he's away. Read how many threads by how disappointing the relationship is for the codie when the alkie finally sobers up and stays sobered up. Read about the relapse rates and the 20 year success rates. Understand that they don't come back 'fixed', they come back sober--sometimes--but with all the problems and character flaws they went in with. That meanness, in the mean drunk stuff, will still be there somewhere, after he comes back sober. It's not the alcohol that created it, it's only the alcohol that unleashed it.

Are RAs loveable? Of course. Are there people who will write that they are so glad they stuck with their RA throughout the whole ordeal? Of course, and their stories are valid (altho I suspect pretty rare)? Are their adult children of alcoholics who will tell you how much they loved their alkie parent and think they were better off living with him/her? There has to be some. Is there hope? Yep. But....

People win the lottery too. Some actually beat the odds at the casino.

Truly--and of course this is just my worthless opinion, so disregard if you want--but I think the best thing is to kiss him good bye, wish him luck, make no promises or commitments, not even to call once a week or answer emails, and move on, work on yourself, improve your life independently of him, completely independently of him....and when he's out, when he's got a job, a home, a life, and a lot of time of sobriety and successful living under his belt--then, and only then, can you consider bringing him back into your life.

It's not healthy for him to depend or rely on you. He has to learn how to be sober WITHOUT you before he can be sober with you.

And you can't wait for him to work it all out, just as you don't wait for the lottery before you pay your bills.

If you two really love each other, and it's not an unhealthy enmeshment of wounded psyches, you WILL find each other again once you have BOTH demonstrated healthy living.

You asked for it, it's just my opinion, and feel free to ignore it.

I've loved 4 alcoholics, except for my son, I regret the time I put into all of them. I should have walked away from them much much earlier, and even my son, I should have dropped the rope much sooner.

Good luck to you.
I agree 100%, I feel blessed in some ways, I am almost 63, and have only lost about two years of my life with an alcholic. However, in that two years I have lost my self respect, came close to loosing my kids and grandkids and now I am just hanging in there to get the money to get the heck out. I am not saying alcholics can't change, but they HAVE TO CHANGE FOR THEMSELVES, and most won't do that.
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Old 11-15-2012, 03:51 PM
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Well, he's making this "easy" on me. I haven't spoken with him since Monday (just trying to figure out what I want), and I receive 6 (yes, 6) text messages from him today...the weirdest messages ever...like he started writing mid thought and never completed the thought. That he prayed to GOD and GOD answered by giving him the idea to contact his old Judo instructor (so he did and was offered a job teaching), so he's decided not to go to Rehab after all, but to conquer his addiction on his own and prove the doubters wrong. It was just so gosh darn CRAZY and I couldn't even wrap my head around this past the point that he's not going to rehab.

Now, I had already reached the point of kicking him out and breaking off our relationship...I was on the fence because it really seemed like he was finally at his rock bottom and was going to get help (on his own, not because I was making him)...I saw hope in that...the promise of professional help to guide not only his recovery, but perhaps our future. Now that he's not going I'm off the fence and sitting in the grass...I can't stay on the roller coaster for the rest of my life, or even another second...I think I'm finally able to say I'm done and allow the hurt and pain of our lost future to fully hit me and try to move on. The hard part will be explaining this to my daughter...however she has been through a lot with his addiction and will understand that he cannot stay in our lives if he isn't seeking help.
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