fluffyflea

TuffGirl is right. And by responding that way guess what? YOU empower yourself and don,t give your power away to him.
And you both feel better.

jessiec

Are we dating the same RABF? Mine is 4 months sober. He can be very anxious, moody, quick to change his mind, touchy, pouty, hot/cold and difficult. And he does NOT want to talk about anything. I can't tell how much of this is new sobriety or just selfish-jerkiness.

He has done an amazing job of abstaining from alcohol and attending meetings. But I think he's just beginning to deal with everything.

Still, being short and cranky with me isn't acceptable!

I did breakdown Friday when I reached my limit. He did seem to hear me, apologized and has relaxed some.

I wish you the best!

wynter

Jessie,
LOL...no, yours sounds so much better 4 months, I remember back then. Still in rehab, and no picnic. But I stayed. My best advice, keep holding your ground, and especially your self-respect. When I look back, can see that I let too much slip by...b/c of course RA didn't want to argue, and characterized any disagreement as a 'fight' that I was looking for. It was all my problem.

Everyone says 2 years supposed to see some light...hmmm...I'm only seeing mine basically is still the same old alcoholic, recovered or not. But he thinks he's GOOD.

I sincerely wish you the best. Always stay true to yourself.

hugs,
wynter

Lynnrae2

I have done alot of reflection about my life this last year(especially last 6 months). which I am sure is no different than anyone here.

What I have realized though, is that I asked way too much from my exab. I wanted him to love me the way I needed to be loved. I wanted him to put me first. I wanted him to share my feelings and problems the way I shared his. I wanted and tried to get something from him that he was, is and will always be uncapable of giving.

Now, I know that it will never happen. He is uncapbable of loving me the way I need to be loved. He has way to many issues that go along with the alcoholism.

My life is so much easier and happier since I figured that out.

jessiec

Wynter, thank you so much. It helps knowing others are dealing with similar situations (even if I wish none of us had to deal with them!).

I absolutely don't think you were at all in the wrong expecting a basic courtesy call. He set you up. He put you in a position he knew would upset you... and then blamed you for being upset. And now somehow he managed to flip it so you are the bad guy and has you second-guessing yourself, feeling upsetand running after him. I've become too familiar with this frustrating pattern lately. It happened when he used to drink too -- had hoped we were done with that.

I'm trying harder than ever to resist falling into these traps. The cycle leaves me feeling so me distracted and desperate. Last night, it really just clicked -- I was not put on this earth to worry about him! That is absolutely not my purpose!

I loved Tuffgirl's suggestion above and will strive to Keep calm and controlled when being tested!

Lulu39

Were you his enabler and co-dependent when he was drinking? If so, perhaps he sees you in that role still?

Did you replace his enabler and co-dependent when he got sober? If so, perhaps he thinks you ought to do and be like the previous enabler and co-dependent?

I don't know the answer to these questions, but maybe thinking about them will help you?

Lulu39

I've seen several members here refer to cynical ones blogs, I have searched and can't find them. Can someone post a link to them?

Titanic

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/blogs/cynical-one/

redatlanta

Ok well I have the same situation except completely reversed. My AH loses his mind (or used to) if I don't respond to texts and phone calls immediately. Frankly the more he would text me the more it pissed me off - before I had time to respond he would be freaking out. Why the time? Maybe I was busy...maybe I didn't hear my phone. Maybe a call came in and I missed the notification for the text. There is little in life that is SO important that it has to be responded to right then.

I can't say that this is just alcoholic behavior and I am not disagreeing that it was inconsiderate. But what was the big deal? It didn't sound like you had plans that evening that required him there, he said he would return. He did and you were mad. What was it about him not responding that set you off so much?

It sounds to me like he is trying to get you to understand he isn't going to be on phone restriction. You said that you "run run run after him and you think he likes that" - his actions would prove otherwise.

You have to pick and choose your battles, if immediate response is something you need (I am not discounting that) then perhaps he isn't the guy for you. Or, maybe you can work on it and get yourself to a place where it doesn't cause you anxiety and anger. I hate to stereotype men here - but this is common action in many men that aren't alcoholic or addicts.

Alcoholics do tend to be selfish. I am sure there is much you have put up with. I am sorry this hurt you and I hope you can get yourself to a place where your expectations are low so you won't continually be disappointed.

Next time - don't call, don't text do your thing. If he is not back by the time you are tired lock the door an go to sleep. Don't be mad - just show him that you have a life too .

Windancer

I would suggest trying to detach and give him some space for awhile and see what happens...especially if he is used to you running after him to fix it! Maybe he is taking you for granted? Anyhow, I was always "chasing" my ex to fix things, and when I got more independant and quit doing that, his attitude changed and he began chasing me. Best of luck!

wynter

Lynn,
thank you for that. Reading your post just now, sitting here crying over this stupid man...yes, he I wanted more than he can offer. I kept tryin and tryin, thinkin I should just give it more time and he would give back some day. I do believe he is incapable of it. I now see I do not understand this man at all. After 3 years, I still don't know who he is. I truly want to, but he doesn't make it easy. It's like the more I try to crack that surface, the more he distances himself so I can't get too close. Then the anger comes into play, and he uses it to push me down also. It sounds like you are getting to a stronger base, though. I need some of that now.


Jessie,
oh, yes, I think you understand this all too well. That's exactly what he did. That's why I was caught off guard. It all happened so quickly...for half a second I tried to stop him from leaving...then thought to myself, 'what about your self-respect and dignity here?'...so I moved away and let him go. He is now awol, and I know is painting me as the angry bad person.

He is not drinking, so I guess I expected things would improve in time within our relationship. Looking back, there is a pattern here of using his anger to detach and not be accountable. If he sees me as the bad person then he doesn't have to look in the mirror at himself.

Tuffgirl's suggestions are good ones. Actually that night I had a thought about texting him and saying that he prolly shouldn't come, just see him in the am....but ya know what? Being honest with him like that doesn't always get me the best outcome either. Hard to admit but thought he'd get angry with me, and didn't want to cause a fight...lol...it was a mess in the making no matter what I did.

I just don't get this man. His lack of empathy is appalling. Maybe that's a hallmark of this disease too. He can go to all the meetings, touchy feely church groups...talks the talk, but not walkin the walk. at all.

Hope you continue to be strong. Gotta be somethin better for us.

wynter

Saw others posts here a little late. I don't think I was his enabler when he was drinking. Met him when he was not, but then a nasty divorce sent him over the edge. We drank together then occasionally...at the time I was in the dark that he had a problem with it. Not till way later. Stayed around while he went to rehab...total codependent behavior, I know. Thought it would make him see me differently. GAH.

Without giving tmi, my life situation is an emotional one right now. My relationship with RA was (I hoped) going to be different and better. That's where my insecurities came in...I didn't see him wanting it the same way. I think that's why I might have overreacted when he was so late...but I can't help feeling that I should be able to be angry with someone and not pay this huge price. Why couldn't he be the 'bigger person' and explain why he was late, calm me down, instead of lashing out? Isn't that what 'normal' people who love each other do? Is it wrong to have that HIGH of an expectation in a three year relationship? It's not like we are just starting out and I was wanting too much, is it?

I am going to try and detach and have been working on hitting the pause button. I've talked to him about this. He has no remedy.

It's killing me, but I will wait to see if I hear from him. Still nuthin. In his eyes I am an awful person right now. He is blaming me for it all, and justifying his anger. That I know. It is disgusting, but I am afraid I will not hear from him. That is the hardest part.

SadHeart

They drink because they can't handle their stuff. They need you to be there for them because they can't be there for themselves.

So it's impossible for them to handle your stuff and be there for you. If they can't do it for themselves, they REALLY can't do it for you.

Your expectations are unrealistic as far as he is concerned. You can't force him to be there for you or handle your stuff.

It's sad and unfair, but it's reality.

SadHeart

Because he can't be the bigger person. It's not in him.

It's your job to calm yourself down, not his. Not ever. You are responsible for your emotional reactions.

He's not normal, he's an alcoholic, you can't expect him to act like a normal person.

And if he's passive aggressive, that's a character defect that is extremely difficult to correct, whether he's an alcoholic or not. PA is a great short term strategy for dealing with life. It's self destructive long term, but works wonderfully short term, so it's very hard to give up. It's also something people who are afraid of their own anger and the anger of others use. Discussion about it with a loved one won't change it. To change passive aggression requires a lot of therapeutic work with a professional.

wynter

Wow, thank you sadheart. I really am in the dark about how to be in this relationship, aren't I? No wonder I keep hitting the wall with him. I've been coming from a whole different mindset...never been in any kind of intimate relationship with an A before, and never for one second thought it would be this damn hard.

I do need him. And I think it scares the hell outta him. That's prolly a part of this fight. He knows I'm needy now and can't do it for me. I keep going there, hoping he will step up. You said it all...HE CAN'T. There it is. I got it. My expectations were so unrealistic b/c I was thinking he was still normal...in there, somewhere.

He will never be the 'bigger person'...so I have to accept that. But does that mean backing down all the time? Giving up my power? Not being able to have disagreements? I'm tryin to find a happy medium here. Any thoughts?

SadHeart

It might mean ending the relationship since it's not the one you want or need. Or downgrading it from 'relationship' to friendship, acquaintance, or somebody that you used to know.

Doing any of those things wouldn't be giving up your power, it would be empowering. It would stop most of the disagreements or at least make them unimportant.

You can't have a happy medium with someone who won't compromise. If he's not willing to move towards your direction as you move towards his (or if pressuring him results in him defending himself passive aggressively), you can't have a happy medium. It may be this isn't the right relationship for you.

mdkathy62

Hi wynter,

I used to ask myself these kinds of questions everyday of my three year rollercoaster relationship with my ex. Yes, it is very normal for people who love each other to be this way to one another; however, are alcoholics capable of true love? I can't tell you the definitive answer to that. I can tell you I spent 6 months going to AA 2-3 times a week with my ex and I learned a lot. Something they kept saying in the meetings was "Self-centeredness is the root of alcoholism". How can someone be capable of love if they are only focused on themselves? They also used to say in meetings that alcoholics think very irrationally. They don't think like "normal" people i.e. rationally. I used to try to reason with my ex, talk about things over and over, to which he would get agitated because he hated that I kept repeating myself and I thought well I have to keep repeating myself because you don't get it!! I thought if I worded things differently, said it in a different tone, if I got other people to talk to him, anything really, then he would get it, but it doesn't work that way.

In the rooms of AA, they had these two big boards. One that said Character Defects which included things like procrastination, ego, pride, shame, guilt, self-centeredness, etc. Obviously, we all have these, but in AA, they say alcoholics take these to the extreme. They can't be the bigger person because being the bigger person means they would have to let go of their pride, their ego, and therefore, sacrifice their self-centeredness.

I often feel that the more I try to make sense of what an alcoholic does or says, the more I become just as irrational as they are. There are certain things that should NOT be that difficult to understand. You lied. You're wrong. Period. You stole. It's wrong. Period. But to an alcoholic, there's reasons for EVERYTHING. They can explain their way out of everything.

wynter

Kathy,
thank you for that. You've nailed it, 'to an alcoholic there's reasons for EVERYTHING.' In other words, they are not held accountable...just we are.

I have never gone to an AA meeting with him, but sometimes think they do perpetuate the self-centeredness they tend to manifest. The ego, the pride...it is all over-blown with him, and keeps him from following any emotions he may feel. That's the baseline he comes from.

I can't reach him. Do I think he loves me...yes, but that isn't always enough to overcome an impasse.

I also feel that when we take it upon ourselves to be the 'bigger person', it puts us in an even more vulnerable position. It seems like a no win here. I have to say, though, I want this man in my life. In between all the sadness there are some very good things I love about him.

So I wait to see if he comes around. The past 6 months, I had to make the first move. If I sit back, will he coward out? Will his anger at me overpower all that we had? I am heartbroken that this is happening again.

You sound very strong here. I wish you all the very best.

Pelican

I went back and reviewed your previous posts. I recommend you take the time to re-read your posts. You will see there is a pattern. This pattern keeps repeating itself, and you keep expecting a different outcome.

You have the right to be treated with respect as an equal partner in a relationship. You have clearly stated how you expect to be treated in a relationship. Based on your posts, he does not meet your expectations for relationship material.

He does not meet your standards.

You didn't cause him to be this way.
You can not control his behavior
You can not fix his behavior.

He has shown you who is. Believe him.

You have the right to choose your own standards of conduct, but you do not have the right or the power to impose those standards on others.

Pelican

Have you tried Alanon yet?

You qualify, even though your boyfriend is no longer actively drinking.