Sueski

MadeofGlass, I think sexism and alcoholism are so similar because they are both abusive. There's a lot of overlap in the general behaviors.

MrCoolFitz - what about writing your name in the snow? I was always jealous of that.

MycoolFitz

I live in desert too and walk all the time. It helps.

Fandy

sorry, it's not me, I'm the alcoholic...and I'm also a very good person with morality and ethics that i try to practice every single day....and a career in surgical education (talk about the Old Boys club) that I saved along with my buttisimo.

Seren

What I view as sexist are the sit coms lately in which the male characters are portrayed as bumbling, hopeless, incompetent people and the female characters stand there and roll there eyes as if to say "there you go again". Sort of like "I Love Lucy" but in reverse.

Men and women are vastly different creatures, and I don't think there is anything wrong with that. There is no reason for either to feel inferior or superior. We just have different strengths.

dollydo

"The sexism I had to deal with daily was very much like alcoholism. It had a sense of entitlement, inequality, gaslighting, outright lying, sneaky behaviors behind my back, and a large amount of disrespect."

You have just described my mother. An alcoholic abuser. The door does swing both ways.

We all have choices, I feel that women are in many cases too tolerant and forgiving, too in love, with love. Their mindset is different than a mans. It has beeen written that, a womens self esteem is based on a having a man, a mans is derived from his career, the old slay the dragon routine. Is this true in all cases? No...but many.

The bottom line is that we women need to learn how to take care of ourselves, slay our own dragons, plan and execute our own lives, not live in the shadow and condesend to men. If we are being abused, make plans to leave, get an education, formulate a career, do something positive to change our situation.

Just my two cents.

BrokenHeartWife

This is very similar to my future XAH. Once, in a counseling session, he told our therapist that he wanted a wife just like his mom...whose only goal was to make her husband happy.

The truth is that his dad was a total ass, and his mom long learned to hold her tongue in order to "keep the peace". When I pointed that out to my AH, he just said that that was an example of how she wanted to please him, and that was good.

My father in law was an Adult Child of an Alcoholic (so was my MIL), and he probably had a personality disorder - maybe borderline or narcissistic. He was a total control freak, had a chip on his shoulder, was easily insulted/miffed, and would engage in "splitting" ( which is a symptom of borderline and narcissistic PD).

My H also thought I should be like a Pamela Anderson or porn star in the bedroom. Ugh! And he had NO CONSIDERATION for the fact that if he had been a jerk to me during the day, then I wasn't going to be "in the mood" at night.

And, although my H had good hygiene/bathing habits, he'd often eat things with lots of garlic and mustard and the HORRID smell would come out of his pores!!! (probably more so if he drank as well, which caused sweat). At night, our bedroom would smell and he'd smell. For the LONGEST time he wouldn't believe me that he smelled because he showered. But, since it was from the food and it was coming out of his pores, bathing did nothing. It wasn't until our older son ate too much garlic one day and HE smelled (AH noticed the smell as well) THEN my AH finally accepted that he would smell the same way after eating garlic/mustard. I think certain body chemistries handle these foods differently than others.

Ugh

fourmaggie

my mom and i where just talking about this very subject....

*brite light moment* you hit the nail on the head with this reply...

snikering at the PEEING standing up and doing it in the snow...lol

womaninprogress

Funny.....when I go visit my parents with RABF it makes me sick how his mom fawns all over him, jumping to get him food or whatnot. She was a stay at home Mom and his Dad was the typical "heavy equipment operator" working long hours, which working and bring home a paycheck were his only family obligations. He went thru a bout of heavy drinking early in the marrige but nipped it at the threat of his wife leaving.

But I've noticed now....His mom gets a bee in her bonet about Dad only doing what HE wants to do and never anything she wants to do, so she's started asserting herself and does things wether he comes along or not.

And he retired last year while she was still working, she handed over all the household chores to him. He often says how hard it is just to keep up with stuff and can't imagine doing it with small kids at home.

They are a great couple, but it's been interesting these last couple years seeing how they've evolved.

Boyfriend often reminds me of the "typical" A/ momma's boy, but he's getting better. I think Dad has something to do with that. I know his parents love me and I think his Dad has been sharing his new perspectives with him. YAY!

GettingBy

Here's my two cents....

I'm not sure that it's as much about sexism as it is about insecurity. In my situation, my XAH would appear to be horribly sexist. In a drunken stupor one night, rambled on about how he wanted to be the "man of the house" but he couldn't because his wife was more successful than him. I initially thought he was a giant sexist pig. He would often talk about how sexy I was for being smart, strong and independent and how lucky he was to have that kind of wife... but in reality, he hated being married to me. It wasn't because he didn't think women should be that way... it's that my being that way made him feel crappy about himself.

When we broke up, he told me... "good luck finding a good who would want to be with you!" Ouch. But, it wasn't so much about a guy who wanted to be with me.... as it was a about finding a guy who was self-confindent and secure enough in himself and wouldn't look at me as an opponent - but rather a teammate!!!


I firmly believe that alcoholics are very hurt people. Inside is a person who is ashamed and scared...truly not proud of how they are living but they don't know how to make it stop. Being around successful, organized people is like throwing fuel on the fire that is their pain. No matter what I did - I was always going to cause pain for my XAH... just by being me. Knowing that frustrated me beyond words.

I remember vividly how happy it made him when I made mistakes. It was so screwed up - but he would relish in my flaws and errors. I didn't understand it at the time - why the heck would someone I love shine a bright light on my mistake?!?!? I get it now. It wasn't about me, at all.


It was about him needing to tear me down to build himself up. It's about hurt people hurting people.

Chris1000101

In looking at my response to you yesterday, I don’t know that I completely answered your question. My bio-mom and bio-dad’s second wife much of the time would sit and would let things be said and done to them that I don’t feel any woman should tolerate. None of the male figures in my early years was respectful of women. There are some memories I wish I never had but I know if it wasn’t for my life experiences I would not be who I am today. One of those memories is women being tied-up in chairs and slapped until she said she would do whatever it is he wanted.

I can’t say it was always bio-dads doing the women were nuts too. Male and female taught to hate. Back in the early 70s when Sears and JCP had their big catalogs, I can remember sis and I going cover to cover and being told to spit on anyone that was a different race than what we were. We had to shout out what the negative name was for that other person before turning the page.

My bio-parents divorced when I was five but I can’t say things got any better. Sis and I were tossed back and forth between them and the hate and abuse continued on both sides. The biggest change for me that drove me to hate women for many years started when he walked out for the last time. Bio-mom pointed her finger and me and yelled, “I HATE MEN.” With him gone, I was now her doormat, punching bag and sex toy. I had feminism shoved down my throat to the point that men were worthless and nothing but sh**, I felt every bit of it for many years.

It has been a gawd awful long road. Statistically I should be dead or in jail. Why did I chose to be different I’ll never know.

dandylion

Dear Chris---I am so glad that you are here. I believe the answer lies in your Spirit. Connection to your Spirit, I believe has saved you from the evils in this world.

Your candid sharing helps many of us.

dandylion

lillamy

I should have said "alcoholic not in recovery"...

velma929

See, I don't think this is terribly sexist. If there is a division of labor, and both partners agree to it, I don't see a problem. (Providing the attitude exists that the money brought in by the wage-earner is "family" money, not the wage-earner's money)

dandylion

Dear velma, I tend to agree with you that sexism resides in the attitude. In my observations---so many times the one who does the domestic work (without a paycheck) is considered "less than" and feels less powerful in the relationship.

"Less-than" work and "woman's work" is considered to be synonymous by many people. Also, wage earners seem to have more status and power in the culture, at large, than those who do unpaid domestic work. I think/hope this is changing a little bit. Also, those who have never worked outside the home are usually at a disadvantage should the wage earner leave the family--like divorce, etc......

I think many women remain in relationships because it is to difficult to leave---due to lack of money, resources, skills---especially those with children. I think the fear and lack of self-confidence is overwhelming for women in these situations.

These are just my individual observations. Again, I do see some slow cultural changes,

dandylion

MycoolFitz

I repeat I really try not to be sexist or racist or other excist. I just want to be sober and real but do not know what real is. I think without the sobriety all other is lost. I went out and did some stuff foodwise and all but I am so cold and tired I am drained. I know I am a nut but I do believe in love peace and understanding. I am in so much pain today but I am breathing.

dandylion

Dear MyCoolFitz, I am so sorry that you are in pain--and I am so glad that you arekeeping sobriety as your top priority. Do you know the source from which your pain comes?

As you already know, sobriety doesn't shield anyone from all of life's pain--but, it does allow us to deal with it.

Keep posting, we are h ere for you.

very sincerely, dandylion

MycoolFitz

Yea I do know I just need to deal with it in the real world. Working on it thanks

Chris1000101

I agree.

It is all in the attitude and sadly even the best of men can say or do things without thinking and it still be sexist. It is not meant that way and may not even be taken that way but when properly analyzed it still is.

One easy example is after a great night in the bedroom. Does he say, “thank you.” Women do not have to have sex it is a gift that is shared between two people.

choublak

My dad was raised in a male chauvinistic household. So, he's been brainwashed that anything kitchen related is women's work. When he does have to use something in the kitchen, he plays dumb about it. He won't even make the effort to figure it out for himself (although he might nowadays, I really don't know).

I'm glad more men can be seen cooking nowadays.

Also, those shows like King of Queens? Where the fat man has a really hot wife? What?

On the flip side, women can wear men's clothing and sometimes pull it off (like looking sexy in a men's shirt and panties, for example), but not the other way around.

A woman can be around children without appearing like a pedophile.

This is from my views, in the US. I know it can be different in other countries...

choublak

Oh, and about the peeing standing up, the Minister of Taiwan thinks men need to pee sitting down because it is more higenic with the public toilets.