Crushed like a bug....
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Crushed like a bug....
That's how I'm feeling about the little bit of trust I tried to impart on my AH this morning. 2 weeks ago, I told him I could not live with him anymore. He did the typical A things: promised to quit, promised to attend AA, would get rid of all the alcohol in the house, wouldn't go to the bar.... basically begged me to give him one more chance. Foolishly, I agreed.
He attended AA for one week and then stopped, claiming he felt he could "handle it" now and not go overboard.
Then last night, we went to grab a bite to eat and then I went straight to practice. He said he was going home. When I got home, I could smell alcohol on his breath. I asked him twice if he'd had anything to drink. He denied it both times. I then told him I could smell it on his breath.
He admitted that he stopped at the bar after dinner to see a "friend" (ie- drinking buddy) and only had one glass. I asked him why I should believe that when he obviously just lied to me.
Plus, this morning, I found two tiny plastic bottles of wine (about 1 1/2 servings each) hidden in the console of his car. I probably didn't handle it right, but I just took them and hid them without telling him I knew about them. If I told him later that I found them (after he drank them), he would just deny that they were there. I'm waiting to see what happens when he discovers them missing. Will he assume he drank them and doesn't remember or will he call and get upset with me for taking the bottles he tried to hide from me.
Either way, I think I'll be looking for a new place to live soon. Like I keep telling him: I love him, but I can't live with him. And no marriage can survive without trust. I really thought he would last longer than 2 weeks. But that's my mistake to live with.
He attended AA for one week and then stopped, claiming he felt he could "handle it" now and not go overboard.
Then last night, we went to grab a bite to eat and then I went straight to practice. He said he was going home. When I got home, I could smell alcohol on his breath. I asked him twice if he'd had anything to drink. He denied it both times. I then told him I could smell it on his breath.
He admitted that he stopped at the bar after dinner to see a "friend" (ie- drinking buddy) and only had one glass. I asked him why I should believe that when he obviously just lied to me.
Plus, this morning, I found two tiny plastic bottles of wine (about 1 1/2 servings each) hidden in the console of his car. I probably didn't handle it right, but I just took them and hid them without telling him I knew about them. If I told him later that I found them (after he drank them), he would just deny that they were there. I'm waiting to see what happens when he discovers them missing. Will he assume he drank them and doesn't remember or will he call and get upset with me for taking the bottles he tried to hide from me.
Either way, I think I'll be looking for a new place to live soon. Like I keep telling him: I love him, but I can't live with him. And no marriage can survive without trust. I really thought he would last longer than 2 weeks. But that's my mistake to live with.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
Lies, lies, and more lies, seems to be the common denominator of an active alkie.
His actions say he is not ready to stop drinking and work a recovery program.
Best to keep the focus on yourself, and do what is best for you.
Please know we are here to support YOU.
His actions say he is not ready to stop drinking and work a recovery program.
Best to keep the focus on yourself, and do what is best for you.
Please know we are here to support YOU.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Dontreallycare, about the bottles---my experience with the hiding thing is that he probably won't mention them unless you bring up the issue. Usually, they won't do anything that brings the focus on the fact that they are drinking.
He is struggling with a disease within his brain---like a hungry monster that needs to drink to survive. This "monster" is powerful and will overide everything else in order to get what it "needs"--another drink. Abstinance/sobriety is the only thing that will silence the monster. Your husband probably doesn't even realize this consciously. But it will help you, if you do comprehend it. You can't reason with the monster--it is not like reasoning with a rational force. The monster doesn't care about you, or, anything else. Even if part of your husband wants to keep the promises--at the time he makes them--the m onster disease can overide him--until he realizes that total abstinance is the only thing that works.
You husband, obviously, has not reaches his bottom. Sometimes, the only thing that works is to get out of their way so that they can.
Maybe, you have reached your "bottom" with this. It is good, in my opinion, that you are setting a boundry with your husband. As you already have acknowledged---you have to back it up or your boundry means nothing to him. Always remember: IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ENFORCE YOUR BOUNDRY---NOT HIS!!.
Reading the articles by Floyd P. Garrett, MD. helped me enormously. You can find his website by doing a google search. Also, try a search of the threads on this forum for his name.
These are the things that I have learned by my own painful experience with this disease (I have an ocean of tears to prove it...LOL).
Hang on to the serenity prayer---and hang on to your support system.
sincerely,
dandylion
He is struggling with a disease within his brain---like a hungry monster that needs to drink to survive. This "monster" is powerful and will overide everything else in order to get what it "needs"--another drink. Abstinance/sobriety is the only thing that will silence the monster. Your husband probably doesn't even realize this consciously. But it will help you, if you do comprehend it. You can't reason with the monster--it is not like reasoning with a rational force. The monster doesn't care about you, or, anything else. Even if part of your husband wants to keep the promises--at the time he makes them--the m onster disease can overide him--until he realizes that total abstinance is the only thing that works.
You husband, obviously, has not reaches his bottom. Sometimes, the only thing that works is to get out of their way so that they can.
Maybe, you have reached your "bottom" with this. It is good, in my opinion, that you are setting a boundry with your husband. As you already have acknowledged---you have to back it up or your boundry means nothing to him. Always remember: IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO ENFORCE YOUR BOUNDRY---NOT HIS!!.
Reading the articles by Floyd P. Garrett, MD. helped me enormously. You can find his website by doing a google search. Also, try a search of the threads on this forum for his name.
These are the things that I have learned by my own painful experience with this disease (I have an ocean of tears to prove it...LOL).
Hang on to the serenity prayer---and hang on to your support system.
sincerely,
dandylion
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 106
Dandylion,
You're right. I have reached my bottom and am at peace with the decision to leave. I wanted to give him one last chance with the hope that if he understood what the consequences would be, he could not come back to me later and say that he didn't realize it meant I would leave. I know that as long as I stay, he will not hit bottom. The fact that it took less than 2 weeks for him to backslide tells me it didn't really faze him. I do need to get out of his way. Many on his mother's side have died from cancer and he's always saying how he hates the disease. What he doesn't realize is that the alcoholism is also a disease. If he had cancer, he would go to the doctor to fight it. I need him to understand that this is the same thing and that it won't be "cured" by ignoring it or trying to handle it himself.
You're right. I have reached my bottom and am at peace with the decision to leave. I wanted to give him one last chance with the hope that if he understood what the consequences would be, he could not come back to me later and say that he didn't realize it meant I would leave. I know that as long as I stay, he will not hit bottom. The fact that it took less than 2 weeks for him to backslide tells me it didn't really faze him. I do need to get out of his way. Many on his mother's side have died from cancer and he's always saying how he hates the disease. What he doesn't realize is that the alcoholism is also a disease. If he had cancer, he would go to the doctor to fight it. I need him to understand that this is the same thing and that it won't be "cured" by ignoring it or trying to handle it himself.
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Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: new moon road
Posts: 1,545
I'm sorry for the inevitable changes you will have to make, as we all know here that nothing you say or do will change his behavior or his thinking. I found that for myself, reading the AA Big Book, the first three chapters especially, helped me completely accept my powerlessness over alcoholics. It can be found online at www.aa/bigbookonline.
I hope you have Al-Anon there or a counselor, because it is too hard to recover from the effects of someone's drinking all on our own. We don't get well just by no longer living with the alcoholic. There is still some deep inner work in us which has to be done.
He will try in various ways to make you change your plans. It is exhausting when we set a boundary with an alcoholic. Alcoholics want power and control and can be ruthless in applying pressure to family members to keep things status quo. So don't go this alone, or you will be controlled by him.
The book "Getting Them Sober" is explicit in its descriptions of alcoholic manipulation and may be very helpful to you. Good luck with all that is to come. Remember you are much stronger than you think, and hold on to your values. You will be all right.
I hope you have Al-Anon there or a counselor, because it is too hard to recover from the effects of someone's drinking all on our own. We don't get well just by no longer living with the alcoholic. There is still some deep inner work in us which has to be done.
He will try in various ways to make you change your plans. It is exhausting when we set a boundary with an alcoholic. Alcoholics want power and control and can be ruthless in applying pressure to family members to keep things status quo. So don't go this alone, or you will be controlled by him.
The book "Getting Them Sober" is explicit in its descriptions of alcoholic manipulation and may be very helpful to you. Good luck with all that is to come. Remember you are much stronger than you think, and hold on to your values. You will be all right.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear Dontreallycare, I completely understand your reasoning. This might be the reasonable approach with a non-alcoholic, "reasonable" person. Problem is---alcoholism is not reasonable. He has a voice in his head that screams constantly for drink.
If he is loaded---or sober (but not in recovery), he is not really hearing your logic. His denial is still so strong that it overrides everything else. The alcoholic brain just doesn't process what we say like a truly sober brain does. We just wear ourselves out trying to "reach" them.
They say that the best way to reach an alcoholic is by other alcoholics (recovering ones...LOL). And, I have come to truly believe that. They are too defensive with "us".
You must do what is the best thing for you, because you can't control him. He is going to do what he wants to do. Heartbreaking, I know.
Hang in there---and, please keep posting as much as you want to. Multitudes have walked in your very same shoes---and made it.
dandylion
dandylion
If he is loaded---or sober (but not in recovery), he is not really hearing your logic. His denial is still so strong that it overrides everything else. The alcoholic brain just doesn't process what we say like a truly sober brain does. We just wear ourselves out trying to "reach" them.
They say that the best way to reach an alcoholic is by other alcoholics (recovering ones...LOL). And, I have come to truly believe that. They are too defensive with "us".
You must do what is the best thing for you, because you can't control him. He is going to do what he wants to do. Heartbreaking, I know.
Hang in there---and, please keep posting as much as you want to. Multitudes have walked in your very same shoes---and made it.
dandylion
dandylion
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 62
Originally Posted by Dontreallycare 
That's how I'm feeling about the little bit of trust I tried to impart on my AH this morning. 2 weeks ago, I told him I could not live with him anymore. He did the typical A things: promised to quit, promised to attend AA, would get rid of all the alcohol in the house, wouldn't go to the bar.... basically begged me to give him one more chance. Foolishly, I agreed.
He attended AA for one week and then stopped, claiming he felt he could "handle it" now and not go overboard.
Then last night, we went to grab a bite to eat and then I went straight to practice. He said he was going home. When I got home, I could smell alcohol on his breath. I asked him twice if he'd had anything to drink. He denied it both times. I then told him I could smell it on his breath.
He admitted that he stopped at the bar after dinner to see a "friend" (ie- drinking buddy) and only had one glass. I asked him why I should believe that when he obviously just lied to me.
Plus, this morning, I found two tiny plastic bottles of wine (about 1 1/2 servings each) hidden in the console of his car. I probably didn't handle it right, but I just took them and hid them without telling him I knew about them. If I told him later that I found them (after he drank them), he would just deny that they were there. I'm waiting to see what happens when he discovers them missing. Will he assume he drank them and doesn't remember or will he call and get upset with me for taking the bottles he tried to hide from me.
Either way, I think I'll be looking for a new place to live soon. Like I keep telling him: I love him, but I can't live with him. And no marriage can survive without trust. I really thought he would last longer than 2 weeks. But that's my mistake to live with.
He attended AA for one week and then stopped, claiming he felt he could "handle it" now and not go overboard.
Then last night, we went to grab a bite to eat and then I went straight to practice. He said he was going home. When I got home, I could smell alcohol on his breath. I asked him twice if he'd had anything to drink. He denied it both times. I then told him I could smell it on his breath.
He admitted that he stopped at the bar after dinner to see a "friend" (ie- drinking buddy) and only had one glass. I asked him why I should believe that when he obviously just lied to me.
Plus, this morning, I found two tiny plastic bottles of wine (about 1 1/2 servings each) hidden in the console of his car. I probably didn't handle it right, but I just took them and hid them without telling him I knew about them. If I told him later that I found them (after he drank them), he would just deny that they were there. I'm waiting to see what happens when he discovers them missing. Will he assume he drank them and doesn't remember or will he call and get upset with me for taking the bottles he tried to hide from me.
Either way, I think I'll be looking for a new place to live soon. Like I keep telling him: I love him, but I can't live with him. And no marriage can survive without trust. I really thought he would last longer than 2 weeks. But that's my mistake to live with.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 106
EG and Dandylion,
Yes, I've been attending Al-Anon for about a year now. That's what has helped me to realize that I didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. But I can inhibit him getting help and that's why I have to get out of the way now. I hate that my life is going to be uprooted, but I'm hoping that in the long run, it helps both of us.
Yes, I've been attending Al-Anon for about a year now. That's what has helped me to realize that I didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. But I can inhibit him getting help and that's why I have to get out of the way now. I hate that my life is going to be uprooted, but I'm hoping that in the long run, it helps both of us.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Caligirl,
Mine had a DUI right before I met him (about 4 years ago). He tried to tell me that it was because of his gastric bypass (which has been shown to increase the likelyhood of alcoholism- esp with wine), but I know now that it was an excuse. He already knew how wine affected him. Unfortunately, that wasn't his bottom. I'm concerned that his bottom will end up being his losing visitation with his daughters because abusing alcohol is a violation of his CO.
Mine had a DUI right before I met him (about 4 years ago). He tried to tell me that it was because of his gastric bypass (which has been shown to increase the likelyhood of alcoholism- esp with wine), but I know now that it was an excuse. He already knew how wine affected him. Unfortunately, that wasn't his bottom. I'm concerned that his bottom will end up being his losing visitation with his daughters because abusing alcohol is a violation of his CO.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Really?! Just as I decide that tonight I'm not going to continue to live with my AH because of the lies and distrust, he calls and tells me he is one of 600 people laid off. Why now? Am I responsible if he goes off the deep end just because I don't want to relax my boundries? The last time this happened, his drinking got progressively worse. He's getting 10 weeks of full pay as severence and I don't want to have to worry about him sitting at home and drinking all day long.... 
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Join Date: Jul 2012
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Originally Posted by Dontreallycare
Really?! Just as I decide that tonight I'm not going to continue to live with my AH because of the lies and distrust, he calls and tells me he is one of 600 people laid off. Why now? Am I responsible if he goes off the deep end just because I don't want to relax my boundries? The last time this happened, his drinking got progressively worse. He's getting 10 weeks of full pay as severence and I don't want to have to worry about him sitting at home and drinking all day long....
Anyway, no you are NOT responsible if he goes off the deep end because most likely he'll do exactly what you think he will... ugh
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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I just don't know how to handle it. I want to stick with my gut, but I know how the entire conversation is going to go. The "woe is me", "you don't love me", "now is when I need you the most and you're not supporting me".... Gah! I can already hear it. But if he can lie to me and hide it when things are good, what's going to make it any different now that things aren't so good?
Today is a New Day
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 1,766
XABF used to plan "our" schedule over a year in advance, trying to keep us going off on trips and to dinners that we couldn't afford every day he could get me out of work. He'd pay for everything he could in advance... And I'm not just talking about the things you have to book well in advance, I'm talking about him getting into fights with COMMUNITY THEATERS because they wouldn't sell their tickets more than three months before the show, then he'd brag about how we got our tickets, and if he didn't get too drunk to attend we'd get there and half the seats (not assigned, either) would be empty... And then we'd have to leave at intermission to "beat traffic".
It was a hook to keep me involved. "You can't leave! What about these tickets/hotels/restaurant gift cards/plans I made just for you." They need to have something to hang over our heads always.
I finally changed my phone number six months after I left him because I didn't want any more calls from bed and breakfasts four hours away asking if he was to be arriving this evening. I had the foresight to report my bank debit card as "lost" to get a new number shortly after leaving, just in case he had used it on a reservation that wouldn't accept his American Express and wanted a Master/Visa instead.
I guess what I'm trying to say, in my roundabout way, is that there was always some sort of excuse. Things were going well, I had to stay. He was having a rough time, I had to stay. What about these expensive tickets he got for me, I had to stay. On and on and on. At the end of the day - no, I didn't have to stay, he made his own mess, and it was HIS responsibility to clean it up.
His drinking may very well be part of why he's part of the "layoffs." Alcoholics aren't productive, and if they're laying off 600 people they want to keep people who actually work.
I always thought XABF was high-functioning, but looking back on things, the last six months we were together he spent about twice as much time sleeping off last night's hangover in his office than he did actually accomplishing anything worth doing. They just kept him on at work because if you caught him on a sober day he was brilliant, and I've seen him solve problems in an hour that the whole department had been struggling with for months... Then he'd go drink off all the "stress" of solving that, and they'd know it and just let him.
It was getting to the point where his useful time was dwindling, and knowing the management I wouldn't be surprised if they had started looking for "polite" ways to get him out the door at that point...
It was a hook to keep me involved. "You can't leave! What about these tickets/hotels/restaurant gift cards/plans I made just for you." They need to have something to hang over our heads always.
I finally changed my phone number six months after I left him because I didn't want any more calls from bed and breakfasts four hours away asking if he was to be arriving this evening. I had the foresight to report my bank debit card as "lost" to get a new number shortly after leaving, just in case he had used it on a reservation that wouldn't accept his American Express and wanted a Master/Visa instead.
I guess what I'm trying to say, in my roundabout way, is that there was always some sort of excuse. Things were going well, I had to stay. He was having a rough time, I had to stay. What about these expensive tickets he got for me, I had to stay. On and on and on. At the end of the day - no, I didn't have to stay, he made his own mess, and it was HIS responsibility to clean it up.
His drinking may very well be part of why he's part of the "layoffs." Alcoholics aren't productive, and if they're laying off 600 people they want to keep people who actually work.
I always thought XABF was high-functioning, but looking back on things, the last six months we were together he spent about twice as much time sleeping off last night's hangover in his office than he did actually accomplishing anything worth doing. They just kept him on at work because if you caught him on a sober day he was brilliant, and I've seen him solve problems in an hour that the whole department had been struggling with for months... Then he'd go drink off all the "stress" of solving that, and they'd know it and just let him.
It was getting to the point where his useful time was dwindling, and knowing the management I wouldn't be surprised if they had started looking for "polite" ways to get him out the door at that point...
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Please, Don'treallycare, don't fall for the guilt-tripping! I agree with StarCat that they will use anything toplay the "You can't leave me" card. I believe your prediction is right-on---"I was laid off, so I have a right to drink as much as I want" There is always an excuse to drink!Your leaving has nothing to do with layoffs at work. Nothing. Alcoholics are good at manipulating any situation to get you to do what they "need" you to do.
We co-dependents are suckers for the guilt trips. People can get as sober when they are laid-off as when they are working.
Your boundries are boundries regardless of external circumstances (if they are TRUE boundries).
This is a challenge for you to be strong---and true to your self.
Hang on to the serenity prayer.
sincerely, dandylion
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They have more time to go to AA meetings and work the program with the extra time in their hands. 90 meetings in 90 days is what rehab and treatment centers recommend. You can assess what he's done in the first 70 days (10 weeks) of his living alone in sober recovery, and make a decision then (or wait a bit longer) based on actions not words, sobriety not sob stories.
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Join Date: Jan 2011
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Originally Posted by Titanic
They have more time to go to AA meetings and work the program with the extra time in their hands. 90 meetings in 90 days is what rehab and treatment centers recommend. You can assess what he's done in the first 70 days (10 weeks) of his living alone in sober recovery, and make a decision then (or wait a bit longer) based on actions not words, sobriety not sob stories.
Anyway... the laid off alcoholic has a perfect opportunity to immerse himself in recovery in a sober living facility and spend his time in meetings and actually working the steps.
Actions speak way louder than quacking.
To thine own self be true.
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He's not going to change. He doesn't want to stop. The more you talk to him, the more he will tell you what he thinks you want to hear and go and do what he wants to do. You just wind up being a nag to him.
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