BlueSkies1

I don't think this is fair. I completely understand the original poster's view on wine, collecting wine, and wine trips. I too love to do both.
It was never the shared bottle of wine that came between me and my husband. It was the vodka, cognac, and whisky he drank all alone, by himself.
I'd love to go on that wine tour, and actually had the napa valley tour on my agenda before me and the x broke up.
We had hundreds of terrific friends that loved to have wine tasting parties, along with great food of course, fantastic conversation, and overall just wonderful times at different people's houses.
There is a wine culture that is separate of alcoholism.

SadHeart

I see myself in this question. And I have to smile at the obvious flaw in this logic...which I didn't see for DECADES.

YOU can't get her to ANY point where she would make that decision HERSELF.

Do you see the contradiction here?

You may be able get her to a point where she makes that decision (with a lot of heartache and manipulation). But YOU did the 'getting' her to that point. She didn't do it herself.

Doing it for herself means you have to be out of the equation.

She's an alcoholic. This is a problem of years duration. She's hiding alcohol. She gets angry when you discuss it or try to take it away from her. She has occasional unexplained slurriness to her words. She played tug of war over a glass of 'lemonade'. She chooses vodka. All signs of an alcoholic.

But there's nothing you can do about it. You can't lead her anywhere, you can't get her to make the 'right' decisions, you can't get her to stop hiding it, cut down on drinking, seek treatment, anything.

All you can do is live your life the way you are happiest and most productive.

In your shoes, I would continue my hobby and meeting with friends. Everyone needs friends. Don't give up your friends because she has a problems. Your friends are for you.

Whether you have 3 bottles of wine a week or not is not going to change her drinking habits with either wine or vodka. If you rid your house of all alcohol (and many of us do this), she would still drink. Prohibition didn't stop people from drinking. "Dry" counties in the US are awash with alcohol. Taking alcohol out of your life will not take it out of hers.

In your position, and this is just me, not you. I would not do the wine vacation. Not because it would have any effect on her, but because if probably won't be as enjoyable for you wondering about her and the drinking. I'd book another holiday. And when she asked why, I'd tell her it was because you found the hidden vodka and were concerned and now because you are concerned you aren't sure the vacation will be as fun and stress free as you anticipated. But how about a trip to the mountains instead, or ....? I wouldn't be blaming (hard to do), but firm that finding the bottle made the vacation less attractive to me, so let's do something else.

But there's nothing wrong with doing the wine vacation. It won't make her drinking better or worse if you go or if you do something else. It will have no effect on her alcoholism in any way. But it might have an effect on you.

And you are important. Make decisions based on what's best for you, not what's best for her alcoholism or potential recovery. When you make the decision not to go on vacation or to find new friendships not based on wine or find new hobbies or whatever based on what is good and fun for you, that's positive. When you make those decisions based on what is going to control, manipulate, direct or in any way affect her drinking, that's negative.

It's counterproductive to marriage and love to make 'selfish' decisions based only on what pleases you without consideration for the other person. But when you are dealing with an alcoholic, that's the ONLY way to make decisions.

Seems wrong, but it's right.

Florence

Indeed. It wasn't the wine that did him in, it was the secret bottles of vodka stashed in his car and in the closet, and the physical dependency on vodka so he could WALK and NOT HAVE SEIZURES.

Justfor1

She probably likes the fact that you drink & go to these "wine tasting events" because then when smells of alcohol you will assume it's the wine. Vodka is considerably stronger & is 80 proof or sometimes even 100 proof.

onlythetruth

That is true. When I was drinking, I often drank wine with dinner specifically because it gave me a reason why my breath smelled like alcohol all night. I was, of course, following up the wine with vodka.

Oh, the stuff we do. No wonder it is hard for others to understand.

onlythetruth

That sounds quite familiar, I'm sorry to say.

Titanic

Michigan Alcohol Screening Test - G, question #11 of 24: "Do you hide your alcohol bottles from family members?"

National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, question #2 of 10: "Do you sometimes feel a little guilty about your drinking?"

They are included as questions because they are significant factors in alcoholism screening and diagnosis. The book Beyond the Influence: Understanding and Defeating Alcoholism (2000) by K. Ketcham and W. Asbury with M. Schulstad & A. Ciaramicoli is a must read. Chapter 8 is titled "Am I an Alcoholic?" and it has those and other questionnaires which contain similar questions.

You can find the general alcoholism warning signs and symptoms from that book here too: http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...-diseases.html

Good plan to go to Al-Anon! Also, the Get Your Loved Ones Sober book by R. Meyers & B. Wolfe is good (google CRAFT University New Mexico as to effectiveness in getting them into treatment).

All the best.

WishingWell

While I absolutely know - we can't stop someone from drinking, I would undoubtedly call out the elephant rampaging across the room. I don't believe in secret keeping. If I know that my spouse is hiding booze, slurring in front of my kids, sneaking vodka in lemonade, yanking glasses out of my hand - I'm going to say something.

I don't think we do anyone any favors by putting duct tape over our mouths when a serious problem could be lurking. I live my life opening, honestly and forthright for MYSELF. No one is going to make me live it otherwise. I would call it like I see it and bring it on the table. To live together in the same house ignoring warning signs all over the place and remaining mute is not my idea of healthy.

People who don't have an addiction - don't hide alcohol. The truth is you have plenty of red flags.

I also think you have to look at the reason you may be afraid to confront this. It's true, once this comes out to the forefront and it's discovered she has an addiction, your life will have to change. You won't be able to go back, nor should you go back. Your wife's life and health maybe a stake here. Don't play the hiding game with her. She's more important than your wine addiction, as my husband is more important than mine. I know this one! :-)

redatlanta

Here is my experience with my currently relapsing AH.

I suspected for two months. 2 or 3 times I asked. Denied.

I spent a week looking for the bottles and never found them. Sometimes I wondered if I was crazy. Read enough on here and got enough advice to stop looking. I sat back and watched. This is what got me through the devastation - I looked at it as education for myself. Sometimes it was humorous, most of the time sad but I still said nothing. All the while he was prepping ME - continuously talking about how he was thinking he would try to drink again because he thought he could now be a "normal" drinker.

Two weeks ago we went on vacation and he almost didn't go with me - my family beach house his favorite place. He did go and on day 2 he left the house for a stupid reason to go to the store 3 minutes away and showed back up drunk as a skunk and hour and 15 minutes later. I calmly confronted him and he denied. Later that day he admitted it. I believe he admitted it because on vacation, on an island with just me and him it was much harder, and a pain in the ass to hide it.

Anyway - it has progressed. He made it one week with me knowing, drinking in front of me before it blew up one night and I told him no more. Now he is sneak drinking again.
I ignore it. Not because I don't care, but because though Al Anon and here I realize I cannot stop it. My evenings are not going to be spent pissed off trying to logic and plead with the illogical. This is a path he is going to have to walk down by himself. There is nothing I can say to make him stop - but I can set an example which may affect him.

I will NEVER drink around him again (I did when he was sober) though I seldom drink. For several reasons but mostly because I don't want to be impaired around him I want to know exactly what is going on. I suggest you do the same. Not because it will stop your wife from drinking but because she may have a pattern which involves drinking more on nights when she knows you are too. You need to see how she acts when the alcohol is not available with your wine dinners. You are questioning "Is she really an alcoholic" and this is the best way for you to come to terms with it.

No point in emptying out her bottles they can be replaced, easily. When you confront her, try and have as much information as you can gather, and its better to gather information when they don't think you know. She will know you know if her bottle is gone or replaced by water.

If she is alcoholic, I suspect she is, here is what you will begin to encounter if you aren't already. Lies. More lies than you thought anyone could tell. Manipulation. Conniving. Devious. It is progressive it will only get worse I am sorry to say.

I know you are encouraged not to change your life to accommodate them when they are active, but I would not plan this trip to wine country. I wouldn't plan it because if she is in fact an alcoholic, which you strongly suspect, that to me is like saying it is ok - at least for that week. If she is alcoholic it will never be ok again.

Sorry you are going through this. When I first got on here and read everyone's stories it was overwhelming having no experience whatsoever with an alcoholic. I had no idea how formidable alcoholism is....what I thought, how I thought it would be if he relapsed, none of it was as I imagined. I would be insane if it weren't for SR and al anon.

WishingWell

That is some solid piece of advice RedAtlantic!!

SadHeart

I don't drink anything but communion wine, so I have no horse in this race. But I think it's unfair to bash OP because he can handle wine responsibly when his wife can't handle her alcoholism responsibly.

It's not the wine, it's not the vodka. It's the irresponsible choices of the drinker that is the problem.

Justfor1

If she ever goes to rehab she will learn about "people, places and things" that can be triggers. While wine making and "wine events" may be great fun and enriching for normal drinkers, sneaking vodka throughout the day is not fun for the alcoholic. It is a way to escape pain.

Florence

Preach!

This is interesting to me. A vacation was the first time I was really clued in to the AH's problem. We never went on vacation. He rarely strayed from his routine and naysayed a lot of my desires to participate in social events. We were still regular drinkers as far as I knew and had a little wine on the vacation. He was REALLY WEIRD about booze while we were there. I remember thinking he seemed obsessive and protective of his access to it. I knew nothing about alcoholism at that time, but I remember being annoyed and surprised by his behavior. He also had the shakes. Badly. This was nearly a year before the blinders fell off and I realized that he was a full-blown alcoholic, and in hindsight it's obvious to me now that he'd progressed to physical dependence on alcohol at least that long.

We lived together for six years before I started finding empties and uncovering lies about alcohol. I'm not so naive to think I discovered the problem immediately. In fact, the hard truth is that much of his drinking occurred right under my nose, hiding in plain sight, because we hung out with a drinking group of people and nearly everything I saw was pretty well within the norm.

I don't have any opinions either way about whether it hurt or helped his disease by having that cover. When he admitted he had a problem and went to rehab, we cut off that lifestyle. And I guess that didn't really help either. It kind of delayed the inevitable for awhile.

There are no easy answers here.

Hopscotch

Hello AirlineGuy!

I can imagine how scary it must have been to actually ask this question, probably knowing the answer, deep down, already.

The thing with alcoholism, is that it seems to go against all of our caregiver instincts. (Am not implying you take care of your wife on a daily basis, but you would if she had the flu). We so desperately want to help the person SEE what we see, we want to somehow push them to get better. Also, knowing that they really don't have control over alcohol we tend to want to "soften" the consequences of their actions- after all, its not their fault they drink, they suffer from alcoholism.

Crazy thing here, is that this just prolongs the drinking.
They need to see, experience, feel, you name it, all of the horrible, awful consequences of their alcoholism. They really need to reach a point in their life, that the only option is to quit, because the alternative is unbearable.

Its counter-intuitive because you feel like you're abandoning a person that is sick.
And you wouldn't do that with someone with the flu.

I just finished reading a great book you might find interesting: Drinking, a love Story. By Caroline Knapp. Very insightful.

Best to you,

H

lillyknitting

If you've both been drinking one cannot smell the alcohol on the other persons breath. That's why it's so easy for the police to tell if someone's been drink/driving because if you haven't been drinking you can smell it a mile away. My husband is a London licensed taxi driver and can tell at a glance whether someone has been drinking or not, also degrees of drunkardness.

lillyknitting

I think the point I'm trying to make is if you continue drinking, going on wine holidays, mixing with drinking friends etc then you are endorsing her drinking. That is exactly how I would feel, if my husband did all of that I would feel what the heck is he on about, he drinks like a fish!! When I tried to stop drinking my husband did support me as much as he could, no alcolhol in the house (he's not a drinker as such so would never think of buying booze for the house) it was me that bought the wine, and as for friends, he would have quite happily never mixed with people that drank. As for wine holidays it just never came into the equation. Likewise, my husband is diabetic. I would not go out and buy sweets an cakes and I wouldn't sit an eat them in front of him.

SadHeart

He's not responsible for her drinking or not drinking whatever he does.

Remember the 3 C's: He's not causing it by going on wine country holidays, he can't cure it by giving up his hobby, and he can't control it by not associating with his friends.

She however CAN choose not to go on wine vacations, not participating in his hobby, and not associating with other drinkers. Her choices will make a difference in her drinking, HIS choices will not make a difference in her drinking.

Now if she actually CHOOSES to stop drinking and actually does it, he may want to modify his activities to be more in line with hers. But that's only AFTER she's already made and executed her choice.

My mother was a diabetic and we had sweet things in our house all growing up. She was an ADULT and took responsibility for her health without it hindering everyone else.

Alcoholics often want the world to tailor itself to their needs. IMHO that's wrong and futile.

eveleivibe

Pouring away her vodka away is likely to make her worst. It may panic her n then she may get twice as much or become more secretive with you.
I wouldn't cancel your trips. That's enabling. If she makes a fool of herself let it happen, give her something to think about - your friends will not think any less of you, not if they're true friends anyway. And you can't stop living / isolating yourself because of her behaviour its unhealthy. Maybe go to a al anom meeting?
Looks like you've had some good replies.
Keep posting n read as much info as you can.
Evey

Titanic

Great stuff Sad Heart!

onlythetruth

I agree with SadHeart--this is what I was trying to say when I suggested that AirlineGuy would do well not to worry about the vacation. The vacation is not the issue, and attempting to fix an addiction by controlling someone's access to booze is typically an exercise in futility.