Half-truths, lies, and subversion
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Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 17
Half-truths, lies, and subversion
One of the things that drives me crazy about my AH is that I get so turned around by how he gives out information. I always feel like he's covering things up or not telling whole truths. Like he's telling me what he wants me to know, but not in the way I need to hear it. FYI: I'm new here so please call me out if I cross the posting guidelines here, thanks!
He wants our marriage to work, I'm currently sitting on the fence mainly because of trust issues. Last week he told me that he was going to the dentist and then followed it up with 'and then I have an 11 o clock'. I texted him around 2 and he texted me back saying that he was at the dentist and couldn't talk. OK, so I know he went to the dentist, but when? It's stupid stuff like this that makes it hard to trust him and try to rebuild our marriage. Where was he in the morning? When I texted him back and asked him if he got his schedule messed up, he didn't respond. Just no answer and I decided to drop it when he got home because it wasn't worth a fight at this point.
How are we going to fix our marriage if he can't even be honest about where he's going? He might have just been going to get a haircut, or maybe an appointment with a customer, but this subversive behavior is really starting to bother me and bring me down because I realize that maybe he's just not ready to work as hard as I am at fixing our marriage.
He wants our marriage to work, I'm currently sitting on the fence mainly because of trust issues. Last week he told me that he was going to the dentist and then followed it up with 'and then I have an 11 o clock'. I texted him around 2 and he texted me back saying that he was at the dentist and couldn't talk. OK, so I know he went to the dentist, but when? It's stupid stuff like this that makes it hard to trust him and try to rebuild our marriage. Where was he in the morning? When I texted him back and asked him if he got his schedule messed up, he didn't respond. Just no answer and I decided to drop it when he got home because it wasn't worth a fight at this point.
How are we going to fix our marriage if he can't even be honest about where he's going? He might have just been going to get a haircut, or maybe an appointment with a customer, but this subversive behavior is really starting to bother me and bring me down because I realize that maybe he's just not ready to work as hard as I am at fixing our marriage.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Mass
Posts: 149
Welcome constellation. I have a 21yo alcoholic son that is currently in recovery. I think the lying part comes with the alcoholism. Big lies, little lies, they are all lies. For me I always confront my son on the lies. Most of the time it is nothing more than he didn't want to discuss something with me so he just answered yes. Fortunately, that is one of the things he is working on in recovery.
Member
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Canada
Posts: 230
I found that my STBXAH's lying has gotten worse as his alcoholism (and drug usage)has.
Before everything got out of control, he was a very open and honest person, now he now lies about anything. Even the most trivial things, he lies about. He had visitation about a month ago. He said that he had picked our children up breakfast and wanted to bring it to the house. Since he was not to be at our home, I said that I would pack up the children and take them over to his parents home and they could all have breakfast together. So I quickly packed them up and took them to his parents. guess what?! No breakfast. He hadn't picked them up breakfast at all. Now why the heck would someone lie about that?! Because he is an A, he will lie about freaking near anything.
He lies about who is on the phone, where he has been, when he has worked, when he has days off, what he spends money on, etc. In fact he has told so many lies, that my family and friends now say, How do you know when he is lying? His lips are moving.
It is frustrating to have to deal with someone who lies.
As far as him working at fixing your marriage, something that comes up here frequently at SR, is 'watch their actions.' A's say all sorts of things, but it is what they are actually doing that we need to pay attention to.
Before everything got out of control, he was a very open and honest person, now he now lies about anything. Even the most trivial things, he lies about. He had visitation about a month ago. He said that he had picked our children up breakfast and wanted to bring it to the house. Since he was not to be at our home, I said that I would pack up the children and take them over to his parents home and they could all have breakfast together. So I quickly packed them up and took them to his parents. guess what?! No breakfast. He hadn't picked them up breakfast at all. Now why the heck would someone lie about that?! Because he is an A, he will lie about freaking near anything.
He lies about who is on the phone, where he has been, when he has worked, when he has days off, what he spends money on, etc. In fact he has told so many lies, that my family and friends now say, How do you know when he is lying? His lips are moving.
It is frustrating to have to deal with someone who lies.
As far as him working at fixing your marriage, something that comes up here frequently at SR, is 'watch their actions.' A's say all sorts of things, but it is what they are actually doing that we need to pay attention to.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 138
My AH truly believes that he's an honest person, in fact, he brags about how honest he is and how everyone else is dishonest and not trustworthy. So, when he is shown to be dishonest, he flips out, denies, you name it. We even confronted him with the saying: all addicts lie...but he still insisted that he doesn't lie. lol
He is VERY dishonest with his therapists and doctors. Before rehab, one doctor wouldn't know what the another doctor had prescribed (H didn't tell him that he was also going to another doc). he didn't want one doctor to know he was on depression meds, so he never told him.
He wasted years of therapy by lying to his therapists. He's go in and be charming...and they would believe his ridiculous lies and half-truths about how his evil wife was ruining his life. lol Finally, with his last therapist, our older son went and spoke to her and "set her straight"....my son said that her mouth was hanging open from all that he told her.
Now, he's in rehab and he's still lying.
Yes to: how do you know when an alcoholic is lying....his lips are moving.
He is VERY dishonest with his therapists and doctors. Before rehab, one doctor wouldn't know what the another doctor had prescribed (H didn't tell him that he was also going to another doc). he didn't want one doctor to know he was on depression meds, so he never told him.
He wasted years of therapy by lying to his therapists. He's go in and be charming...and they would believe his ridiculous lies and half-truths about how his evil wife was ruining his life. lol Finally, with his last therapist, our older son went and spoke to her and "set her straight"....my son said that her mouth was hanging open from all that he told her.
Now, he's in rehab and he's still lying.
Yes to: how do you know when an alcoholic is lying....his lips are moving.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,452
I think the posts are right on. Alcoholics lie because at the heart of them, they don't want to believe who they have become. When you can't acknowledge the truth of who you are, and along with it, the truth of how damaging your behavior is to those you most love, there is a core eroding of the integrity of your being.
Little things don't matter because your primary job is to deny the truth of what is happening and not be revealed. Especially not be revealed to yourself which might unleash self-loathing that you could not bear.
As I look back at my part, however, in the crazed dysfunctional and alcoholic dance my AH and I did for 20 years, getting worse and worse, I do see something about myself that I wish I had seen earlier.
My AH complained that he couldn't just live his life; I was just everywhere he went emotionally and physically. He is right. It started when he had severe health problems a number of years ago, and he required a lot of intense attention just to function. But he got better, and I didn't. He didn't need to be monitored like a child, and I didn't need to do that.
So, while you look at his part in this, I found it very illuminating to look at my part, and I was very very co-dependent. For the best of all reasons, I thought. But that wasn't mine to think or do. He deserved the respect of being an adult who had the authority and autonomy to make his own decisions, whether or not I agreed with them.
I think my behavior pushed him away. I think I took on the mantle of conscience for him and that let him push it further my way and feel even more justified in his behavior. I think I stunted his capacity for introspection, or the potential that he would look at his own behavior, because I "owned" calling out what I didn't like about how he lived. He was then free to blame me, because I owned his self-monitoring functions.
Would it have made a difference? No, I don't really think it would have. His issues go far beyond alcoholism to narcissism, and I don't think anyone can really change a narcissist. But if I had many years ago drawn clear boundaries, his destructive and pathological behavior to me might not have been able to escalate and I might not have disintegrated to the soul wrenching place I got to.
Humpty Dumpty was teetering on that wall for a long time, and maybe I made him a little more unstable. Maybe not, who's to know? Doesn't matter, I didn't understand. I did what I did. He did what he did. It is over.
My choice, ultimately, was to understand that the behavior he chose with alcohol and porn was extremely destructive to me, and to leave. And I did, with great grief. I suppose some part of me still wishes that he would/could/wanted to behave in a way that I could live with. I miss him.
ShootingStar1
Little things don't matter because your primary job is to deny the truth of what is happening and not be revealed. Especially not be revealed to yourself which might unleash self-loathing that you could not bear.
As I look back at my part, however, in the crazed dysfunctional and alcoholic dance my AH and I did for 20 years, getting worse and worse, I do see something about myself that I wish I had seen earlier.
My AH complained that he couldn't just live his life; I was just everywhere he went emotionally and physically. He is right. It started when he had severe health problems a number of years ago, and he required a lot of intense attention just to function. But he got better, and I didn't. He didn't need to be monitored like a child, and I didn't need to do that.
So, while you look at his part in this, I found it very illuminating to look at my part, and I was very very co-dependent. For the best of all reasons, I thought. But that wasn't mine to think or do. He deserved the respect of being an adult who had the authority and autonomy to make his own decisions, whether or not I agreed with them.
I think my behavior pushed him away. I think I took on the mantle of conscience for him and that let him push it further my way and feel even more justified in his behavior. I think I stunted his capacity for introspection, or the potential that he would look at his own behavior, because I "owned" calling out what I didn't like about how he lived. He was then free to blame me, because I owned his self-monitoring functions.
Would it have made a difference? No, I don't really think it would have. His issues go far beyond alcoholism to narcissism, and I don't think anyone can really change a narcissist. But if I had many years ago drawn clear boundaries, his destructive and pathological behavior to me might not have been able to escalate and I might not have disintegrated to the soul wrenching place I got to.
Humpty Dumpty was teetering on that wall for a long time, and maybe I made him a little more unstable. Maybe not, who's to know? Doesn't matter, I didn't understand. I did what I did. He did what he did. It is over.
My choice, ultimately, was to understand that the behavior he chose with alcohol and porn was extremely destructive to me, and to leave. And I did, with great grief. I suppose some part of me still wishes that he would/could/wanted to behave in a way that I could live with. I miss him.
ShootingStar1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 17
Shootingstar, that's interesting about what you said. I have been in individual counseling and I am working with a sponsor in Al Anon and I am starting to see my part in what's happening.
I wonder, at times, how much I contributed to my AH's narcissistic behaviors and manipulative ways. Yet, I see his family of origin and they are wrought with dysfunction and insanity(emotionally). So, even though I think I perpetuated it, I do believe it was there before we got married. It was just lying dormant and the older he got, the worse the entitlement and 'all about me' mentality got.
Even if my AH wasn't drinking, I'm not sure our marriage would be fixable. He has many deep seated issues and doesn't want to turn the mirror upon himself. I'm thinking that the alcohol gives him an 'out', a way to avoid dealing with life and his emotions, and of course a good reason to blame me for his problems.
What I struggle with most is: do I want to continue to live with someone who won't turn that mirror to himself, who won't deal with some serious problems in his marriage, who won't keep his side of the street clean. I've detached quite a bit from him over the past 9 months and it hasn't been boding well for our marriage. He's all over the place emotionally, like he's trying different tactics to get me to conform to his ways. I truly don't want to live like this much longer, it's taking away my mental and emotional health and it's only a matter of time before I start suffering physically.
I wonder, at times, how much I contributed to my AH's narcissistic behaviors and manipulative ways. Yet, I see his family of origin and they are wrought with dysfunction and insanity(emotionally). So, even though I think I perpetuated it, I do believe it was there before we got married. It was just lying dormant and the older he got, the worse the entitlement and 'all about me' mentality got.
Even if my AH wasn't drinking, I'm not sure our marriage would be fixable. He has many deep seated issues and doesn't want to turn the mirror upon himself. I'm thinking that the alcohol gives him an 'out', a way to avoid dealing with life and his emotions, and of course a good reason to blame me for his problems.
What I struggle with most is: do I want to continue to live with someone who won't turn that mirror to himself, who won't deal with some serious problems in his marriage, who won't keep his side of the street clean. I've detached quite a bit from him over the past 9 months and it hasn't been boding well for our marriage. He's all over the place emotionally, like he's trying different tactics to get me to conform to his ways. I truly don't want to live like this much longer, it's taking away my mental and emotional health and it's only a matter of time before I start suffering physically.
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