Trying to be supportive while AA is ruining my relationship
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Not that everyone in AA is weak.. especially those who truly have problems with substance abuse. I think going through rehab is much tougher than remaining an addict. I am actually sorry I didn't say that in my post.
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27 and a rock.... Hmmm. When I was 27 I was a rock too. Put myself thru grad school, never cried at dads funeral or let moms breakdown bother me and goddammit there was nothing wrong with me as I did not understand those weak losers the world is full of either.
Pride cometh before the ass kicking though and I suspect you will find one day that everyone has some issues, even you.
That annoying step where you take a fearless moral inventory of yourself? Good exercise.
Your post reminded me of a a story: there was this old lady who came to church one day. Her priest asked her why he never saw her in confession. She replied that she had not sinned in 20 years as hence had nothing to confess.
"wow, you must be so proud!" he said and she agreed that indeed she was.
I had all the answers at 27 too and I'm sorry to sound condescending but at 27 it is pretty hard to know what the right questions are in the first place. Wisdom is less about what you know and more the ability to comprehend how much you need to learn.
In any case, seeking help and admitting to yourself that you need help requires a strength so far beyond the hubris of "I can handle anything, I'm a rock". Unfortunately nobody can tell you that, you learn it from gettin knocked to your knees and humbled a few times. I think I started getting it after that prediction of six months from my oncologist. Fortunately he was wrong :-)
Good luck to you. I think you are missing some things that will become clear in time to you. Most people in AA thought only a weakling would ever need that sort of thing at one time... Back when they were not well.
Pride cometh before the ass kicking though and I suspect you will find one day that everyone has some issues, even you.
That annoying step where you take a fearless moral inventory of yourself? Good exercise.
Your post reminded me of a a story: there was this old lady who came to church one day. Her priest asked her why he never saw her in confession. She replied that she had not sinned in 20 years as hence had nothing to confess.
"wow, you must be so proud!" he said and she agreed that indeed she was.
I had all the answers at 27 too and I'm sorry to sound condescending but at 27 it is pretty hard to know what the right questions are in the first place. Wisdom is less about what you know and more the ability to comprehend how much you need to learn.
In any case, seeking help and admitting to yourself that you need help requires a strength so far beyond the hubris of "I can handle anything, I'm a rock". Unfortunately nobody can tell you that, you learn it from gettin knocked to your knees and humbled a few times. I think I started getting it after that prediction of six months from my oncologist. Fortunately he was wrong :-)
Good luck to you. I think you are missing some things that will become clear in time to you. Most people in AA thought only a weakling would ever need that sort of thing at one time... Back when they were not well.
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I have seen a professional in my younger days for my issues and I continue to pray and go to church. I don't consider myself perfect, but I am confident in who I am and I know my strengths as well as my weaknesses. I am honest with myself every day and take a moral inventory of myself every day before I go to bed. I think about the day, things I did, what I did right, things I could have done better.
I have the tools within me to stay healthy emotionally and physically and I don't need to go to Al-Anon to try and "seek insight".
I have the tools within me to stay healthy emotionally and physically and I don't need to go to Al-Anon to try and "seek insight".
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One other thing - if the stigma of another persons going to AA and how that might reflect on YOU is upsetting then take a realllllly long look at that sentiment. What you don't realize yet is that when you are at church, more people around you are in AA or should be than you realize.
It's a bitch when life comes along and confronts us with facts that contradict our perfectly good assumptions and theories but... Give it time.
I forgot to say that I am terribly sorry about your parents. Having lost a dad to cancer and having faced the terrible fear that I would leave my daughter alone at age 14 I know how hard that is. But that was 4 years ago and I'm typing on my phone while my newborn sleeps on my chest - life surprises us
It's a bitch when life comes along and confronts us with facts that contradict our perfectly good assumptions and theories but... Give it time.
I forgot to say that I am terribly sorry about your parents. Having lost a dad to cancer and having faced the terrible fear that I would leave my daughter alone at age 14 I know how hard that is. But that was 4 years ago and I'm typing on my phone while my newborn sleeps on my chest - life surprises us
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Originally Posted by LookingforHelp9 
I have seen a professional in my younger days for my issues and I continue to pray and go to church. I don't consider myself perfect, but I am confident in who I am and I know my strengths as well as my weaknesses. I am honest with myself every day and take a moral inventory of myself every day before I go to bed. I think about the day, things I did, what I did right, things I could have done better.
I have the tools within me to stay healthy emotionally and physically and I don't need to go to Al-Anon to try and "seek insight".
I have the tools within me to stay healthy emotionally and physically and I don't need to go to Al-Anon to try and "seek insight".
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Why is it impossible for people who are going or have gone through AA to believe that some people are just OK. Not everyone needs help. I am proud of myself. I could have turned my issues into anger and developed problems and gone a different route, but I didnt. Why is it so wrong for me to want my partner to be solid, as well? It's amazing that no one has the idea that there are people out there who don't need to seek help and are actually upstanding, moral citizens.
I guess this just really reiterated the things that I have read that are more extreme takes on AA and how they "suck" people into the program.
Thank you for the kind words on my parents. And Hi 5 to you for kicking cancer's butt!!! As for the "you must be very very proud" comment, I'm going to take that as a non sarcastic comment and reply, "I am". Very proud.
I guess this just really reiterated the things that I have read that are more extreme takes on AA and how they "suck" people into the program.
Thank you for the kind words on my parents. And Hi 5 to you for kicking cancer's butt!!! As for the "you must be very very proud" comment, I'm going to take that as a non sarcastic comment and reply, "I am". Very proud.
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I was teasing you a little. I don't think everyone needs AA but I think you may come to find that lots of fine and upstanding and moral people are there.
Thats why it's anonymous. The PTA rather than AA comment made me giggle - I think I know two principals and several school board members in AA.
It's scary to see a loved one in trouble and not understand what the hell is going on. I'd just urge you to keep an open mind.
I do wish you nothing but happiness ad better days
Thats why it's anonymous. The PTA rather than AA comment made me giggle - I think I know two principals and several school board members in AA.
It's scary to see a loved one in trouble and not understand what the hell is going on. I'd just urge you to keep an open mind.
I do wish you nothing but happiness ad better days
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I think I would rather my significant other find meaning in his life and be supportive of that (especially if it promotes heathy living and its something that he enjoys). I think I would be upset if my significant other was opposed to me doing something that I embrace and find beneficial, especially if I believe it is making me a better person...
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I am still really baffled. Your only problem seems to be that he goes to meetings and is doing steps that he does not need. But how that is skin off your nose still is not clear.
So you are concerned about the "stigma" of AA and how it will appear to others? Is that being "strong?" (And the stigma of churchgoing would not bother you? Or going to church when he does not need to would be okay?)
There has been a lot of hyperbole around here. In your original post, you describe your boyfriend going to AA meetings as flipping your life "upside down." Early on these sort of statements convinced me that your postings were fake and meant to be provocative. But now I believe they are real.
However, I think you ought to speak more specifically and less metaphorically. Instead of throwing blame around, why not talk more about your experience. If you did, it might help others here--and maybe help you.
For example: What has been "turned upside down"?---does that mean your bf keeps you awake all night so you sleeping all day? Or is your bf manipulating you to do things you disagree with? What exactly are you talking about. How does your bf's new self-hatred manifest itself? Is he cutting himself? Or crying all the time?
A bit more objective description would help you and everyone else gauge your perceptions, and prevent them from just dismissing them since they seem so overheated.
I guess I am asking for you to vent less and communicate more. I know of at least one marriage (my sisters) destroyed by AA. But I can tell you exactly what the damage was and how it was caused. In your situation....it is still not clear to me. I wish you would shed light on your situation, so I could understand what is happening in the relationship that bothers you.
So you are concerned about the "stigma" of AA and how it will appear to others? Is that being "strong?" (And the stigma of churchgoing would not bother you? Or going to church when he does not need to would be okay?)
There has been a lot of hyperbole around here. In your original post, you describe your boyfriend going to AA meetings as flipping your life "upside down." Early on these sort of statements convinced me that your postings were fake and meant to be provocative. But now I believe they are real.
However, I think you ought to speak more specifically and less metaphorically. Instead of throwing blame around, why not talk more about your experience. If you did, it might help others here--and maybe help you.
For example: What has been "turned upside down"?---does that mean your bf keeps you awake all night so you sleeping all day? Or is your bf manipulating you to do things you disagree with? What exactly are you talking about. How does your bf's new self-hatred manifest itself? Is he cutting himself? Or crying all the time?
A bit more objective description would help you and everyone else gauge your perceptions, and prevent them from just dismissing them since they seem so overheated.
I guess I am asking for you to vent less and communicate more. I know of at least one marriage (my sisters) destroyed by AA. But I can tell you exactly what the damage was and how it was caused. In your situation....it is still not clear to me. I wish you would shed light on your situation, so I could understand what is happening in the relationship that bothers you.
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I am thankful for this thread- it has reminded that there are all sorts of people in the world- and clearly you do not have to be alcoholic to be egotistical, selfish, rude, arrogant and judgmental!
You name yourself as "Looking for help" and you so clearly are not.
You denigrate members of AA and Al Anon as being weak and members of a cult, and yet you are churchgoing.
You have sought help in younger days through therapy, and yet show no empathy at all.
You referred to Poh's mention of pride- so it must have struck a bone.
You need a partner in life who must remain strong at all times- be your wingman- IMHO unattainable for anyone to be that way forever.
You don't need to be on this forum- yet you must be still logging in as this is a resurrected post? Why- if life is so balanced for you, why do you feel the need to justify yourself to us lesser weak mortals?
Yes, I am one of those people who finds the attitude you portray as insulting- you were brutally honest in your beliefs and opinions - so I hope you take what I say as my honesty- I would be devastated if I thought my daughter would behave in the manner you have- it's all right to feel and express anger- it's good to work through your fear- it is bullying to ride roughshod over other people's core feelings and beliefs.
And that, my dear, is what you have just done.
You name yourself as "Looking for help" and you so clearly are not.
You denigrate members of AA and Al Anon as being weak and members of a cult, and yet you are churchgoing.
You have sought help in younger days through therapy, and yet show no empathy at all.
You referred to Poh's mention of pride- so it must have struck a bone.
You need a partner in life who must remain strong at all times- be your wingman- IMHO unattainable for anyone to be that way forever.
You don't need to be on this forum- yet you must be still logging in as this is a resurrected post? Why- if life is so balanced for you, why do you feel the need to justify yourself to us lesser weak mortals?
Yes, I am one of those people who finds the attitude you portray as insulting- you were brutally honest in your beliefs and opinions - so I hope you take what I say as my honesty- I would be devastated if I thought my daughter would behave in the manner you have- it's all right to feel and express anger- it's good to work through your fear- it is bullying to ride roughshod over other people's core feelings and beliefs.
And that, my dear, is what you have just done.
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Let's give looking a break here....
Reread all of your posts and it sounds like:
You and BF had a terrific relationship before AA got in the way and now he's pulling away and listening to some sponsor you barely knows him whereas you have know him better than anyone and don't see any problem.
You have worked hard and have a terrific job and come from a terrific family and you are solid - churchgoing, moral, upstanding, well respected... You thought he was the same - good family, respectable, on his way to a prestigious law career and all of a sudden he's hanging around a bunch of people with serious issues... People you feel bad for but well, you don't hang around a bunch of folks like that because you aren't like that... Why shouldn't you be able to hang around with folks who are... Not to be mean, but more on your level?
When you have problems you deal with them - it isn't that you have anything against people with issues but just being honest... You'd prefer it if he just dealt with it like you did or go to a credentialed expert like a psychiatrist if he needs help instead of AA which has all sorts of folks filling his head with the idea that he's sick too when he clearly isn't even an alcoholic...
Then he gets annoyed when you are just being honest and looking out for what's best for him and you've known him and his family ten YEARS!
So it makes perfect sense that you are pissed, I mean really: you are a strong person, you thought you were getting someone just like you. The two of you could look forward to your own respectable family and the life you expect and deserve - good careers, the means to procure the finer things in life, travel, PTA, respect... The kind of life everyone wants and others respect in a neighborhood where people don't spend Friday night sitting around in support group meetings. Some of those new 'friends' are probably not from the type of background you have and that's not your fault but Yeeeesh, it's not unreasonable to want to hang around people more on your level so to speak...
Now all of a sudden he's hanging around some secretive group, wallowing around in some BS program for people who have real issues because he's a sweet guy but he's kinda fragile and too sympathetic to other peoples sob stories and they are sucking him into AA and away from you.
Is that pretty close? I can see how Jerry Springer that must seem. I mean, you were honest, you weren't raised that way and it'd be pretty appalling if people found out.
So some of us took offense, most of us have some real issues and unfortunately, if we are being honest, we didn't grow up in solid families for the most part and haven't had the strength to deal with that without help. Meanwhile you two come from a better environment and he doesn't even have problems so its easy to be a little jealous when our lives are so much messier for the most part, you were just being honest.
Sorry I was harsh. I can see exactly why you are upset if I understood what you said correctly and don't let it bug me.
Reread all of your posts and it sounds like:
You and BF had a terrific relationship before AA got in the way and now he's pulling away and listening to some sponsor you barely knows him whereas you have know him better than anyone and don't see any problem.
You have worked hard and have a terrific job and come from a terrific family and you are solid - churchgoing, moral, upstanding, well respected... You thought he was the same - good family, respectable, on his way to a prestigious law career and all of a sudden he's hanging around a bunch of people with serious issues... People you feel bad for but well, you don't hang around a bunch of folks like that because you aren't like that... Why shouldn't you be able to hang around with folks who are... Not to be mean, but more on your level?
When you have problems you deal with them - it isn't that you have anything against people with issues but just being honest... You'd prefer it if he just dealt with it like you did or go to a credentialed expert like a psychiatrist if he needs help instead of AA which has all sorts of folks filling his head with the idea that he's sick too when he clearly isn't even an alcoholic...
Then he gets annoyed when you are just being honest and looking out for what's best for him and you've known him and his family ten YEARS!
So it makes perfect sense that you are pissed, I mean really: you are a strong person, you thought you were getting someone just like you. The two of you could look forward to your own respectable family and the life you expect and deserve - good careers, the means to procure the finer things in life, travel, PTA, respect... The kind of life everyone wants and others respect in a neighborhood where people don't spend Friday night sitting around in support group meetings. Some of those new 'friends' are probably not from the type of background you have and that's not your fault but Yeeeesh, it's not unreasonable to want to hang around people more on your level so to speak...
Now all of a sudden he's hanging around some secretive group, wallowing around in some BS program for people who have real issues because he's a sweet guy but he's kinda fragile and too sympathetic to other peoples sob stories and they are sucking him into AA and away from you.
Is that pretty close? I can see how Jerry Springer that must seem. I mean, you were honest, you weren't raised that way and it'd be pretty appalling if people found out.
So some of us took offense, most of us have some real issues and unfortunately, if we are being honest, we didn't grow up in solid families for the most part and haven't had the strength to deal with that without help. Meanwhile you two come from a better environment and he doesn't even have problems so its easy to be a little jealous when our lives are so much messier for the most part, you were just being honest.
Sorry I was harsh. I can see exactly why you are upset if I understood what you said correctly and don't let it bug me.
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I don’t think Looking’ should be criticized for her feelings here. Her thoughts on the 12 step program are shared by many. The philosophy is not for everyone. And, that is ok. When I was researching methods of recovery for my husband, I knew AA/NA was not right for him, or me based on many factors (that I wont discuss here, but if I did -much would parallel the thoughts and concerns of Looking')….. So we went with a non-12 step approach; private therapy. Has worked great for us. Having said that, I do understand that the 12 step approach gives many people what they need and I think its great for those people. I think Looking’ is really saying the same thing here.
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Sounds to me like he is trying to follow the suggestions of the program. Sounds like he is doing what he is told to have his career. Getting sober and staying sober is not possible with someone around you is using. My part is my reaction. How can I change my reaction ?
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I too grew up in a avery solid family.
I have a great job. I make plenty of money. I (personally) don't have major problems but if they creep up I tackle them head on.
I met my AH when he was 8 years sober. At 10 years he relapsed.
Reminds me of what Dad told me when I was a teenager "when you marry someone you never know what you will end up with". People change - they go through things and either you ride along as a passenger and work through it or you get off at the next stop. You too will change. You will be faced with things in life that you never expected good and bad.
I commend you for knowing what you want out of life, but if a smooth easy ride with your significant other is what you are expecting in the "happily forever after" I am afraid you will be sorely disappointed. Your idealism of marriage being trips to napa, kids and PTA made me laugh. In a marriage you will find the highest of the highs, and the lowest of the lows. I don't know one single person who is married that would say any different.
If I loved someone and they wanted to attend AA even if I thought they weren't an Alcoholic I wouldn't care. At 27 I probably would, but I was more social then and not really focusing on marriage rather just having a good time and my career.
Sounds like you are making the right decision to me, and I don't mean this disrespectfully, but he will be better off without you.
As for being embarrassed about someone being seen at AA - REALLY??? Do you really mean it that it would bother you what your co-workers or community members think about someone getting help? Oh girl, if what other people think guides your choices in life you have a very, very hard life ahead of you. I hope that changes. There is never shame in getting help like this and to hell with anyone who thinks so.
I have a great job. I make plenty of money. I (personally) don't have major problems but if they creep up I tackle them head on.
I met my AH when he was 8 years sober. At 10 years he relapsed.
Reminds me of what Dad told me when I was a teenager "when you marry someone you never know what you will end up with". People change - they go through things and either you ride along as a passenger and work through it or you get off at the next stop. You too will change. You will be faced with things in life that you never expected good and bad.
I commend you for knowing what you want out of life, but if a smooth easy ride with your significant other is what you are expecting in the "happily forever after" I am afraid you will be sorely disappointed. Your idealism of marriage being trips to napa, kids and PTA made me laugh. In a marriage you will find the highest of the highs, and the lowest of the lows. I don't know one single person who is married that would say any different.
If I loved someone and they wanted to attend AA even if I thought they weren't an Alcoholic I wouldn't care. At 27 I probably would, but I was more social then and not really focusing on marriage rather just having a good time and my career.
Sounds like you are making the right decision to me, and I don't mean this disrespectfully, but he will be better off without you.
As for being embarrassed about someone being seen at AA - REALLY??? Do you really mean it that it would bother you what your co-workers or community members think about someone getting help? Oh girl, if what other people think guides your choices in life you have a very, very hard life ahead of you. I hope that changes. There is never shame in getting help like this and to hell with anyone who thinks so.
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Tough crowd! 
I remember that one of the posters on here shared that her therapist told her than normal people aren't attracted to alcoholics in the first place and maybe that therapist is right?
Of course, we don't know if the OP is "normal" and if her SO is truly "alcoholic" but what she does know is that she wants absolutely no part of any relationship that doesn't fit her personal dream and she doesn't want anything to do with a person that might be remotely high maintenance!
Hey, I wish I knew exactly what I wanted and knew exactly what I didn't want and made sure that I didn't veer off the path and get entangled with something not on my list.
In my case, definately not normal by any stretch of the imagination here, I LOVE Alcoholics and if they are hot, smart, witty and entertaining and alcoholic... well sign me up!!! Like the moth to the candle... lol.
Ya'll give the chick a break. She is on a quest to find Prince Charming who is perfect in every way and will fulfill the Napa vacations and dutifully go with her to all PTA meetings too.
If her soon to be ex wasn't a lawyer I would ask her to PM me his phone number. However, I love drunks but I have to draw the line somewhere.
I don't do lawyers. Even us codies have standards. Especially churchgoing ones. They are usually the worst.
I remember that one of the posters on here shared that her therapist told her than normal people aren't attracted to alcoholics in the first place and maybe that therapist is right?
Of course, we don't know if the OP is "normal" and if her SO is truly "alcoholic" but what she does know is that she wants absolutely no part of any relationship that doesn't fit her personal dream and she doesn't want anything to do with a person that might be remotely high maintenance!
Hey, I wish I knew exactly what I wanted and knew exactly what I didn't want and made sure that I didn't veer off the path and get entangled with something not on my list.
In my case, definately not normal by any stretch of the imagination here, I LOVE Alcoholics and if they are hot, smart, witty and entertaining and alcoholic... well sign me up!!! Like the moth to the candle... lol.
Ya'll give the chick a break. She is on a quest to find Prince Charming who is perfect in every way and will fulfill the Napa vacations and dutifully go with her to all PTA meetings too.
If her soon to be ex wasn't a lawyer I would ask her to PM me his phone number. However, I love drunks but I have to draw the line somewhere.
I don't do lawyers. Even us codies have standards. Especially churchgoing ones. They are usually the worst.
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