Today - Need Strength
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Today - Need Strength
I've always loved fantasy. My imagination has always been active - wondering "what if" and manufacturing elaborate sky-castles of a conventionally happy family. However, I have to let all of that go today. I have to stay strong and it's a 50% - 50% chance on whether I can completely do it.
I'm afraid of hurting my RAH. I know, I know, but there it is. I wonder if the dream is really gone or I'm giving up on it.
However, we have to separate. We just do. There is no love between us. There is no intimacy and alcohol has taken away every inch of trust. I can't imagine living with this.. I know that Al-Anon says to wait a year before any major changes, but it's already been an impossibly difficult three weeks, full of tension and anger. The first year is supposedly the worst in an alcoholic's recovery and I'm not quite sure that I can take it. Even if I could I'm not sure that it is fair to my children.
So I'm going to tell him today. In about an hour. I cannot change alcoholism. I have no power over the disease and RAH will always be in my life. But I can change whether my home is a refuge of peace or a war zone. I choose peace.
I'm afraid of hurting my RAH. I know, I know, but there it is. I wonder if the dream is really gone or I'm giving up on it.
However, we have to separate. We just do. There is no love between us. There is no intimacy and alcohol has taken away every inch of trust. I can't imagine living with this.. I know that Al-Anon says to wait a year before any major changes, but it's already been an impossibly difficult three weeks, full of tension and anger. The first year is supposedly the worst in an alcoholic's recovery and I'm not quite sure that I can take it. Even if I could I'm not sure that it is fair to my children.
So I'm going to tell him today. In about an hour. I cannot change alcoholism. I have no power over the disease and RAH will always be in my life. But I can change whether my home is a refuge of peace or a war zone. I choose peace.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
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Sweetie, it's okay not to want to hurt him, we never want to hurt anyone.
It is possible that getting yourself and your children out of the distress may in fact be exactly what you both need.
We never know , and we fight and agonize over things that in the end just might be the best thing for all involved, maybe that is what your RAH needs to find his own way back to himself.
It's not easy, and right now you may just be the only one that is capable of doing what is right for all involved. It's a big weight to carry, but you are the strong one.
I hope you find some way to comfort yourself in this difficult day that you face.
sending you a huge hug, Katie xo
PS It's going to be okay.
It is possible that getting yourself and your children out of the distress may in fact be exactly what you both need.
We never know , and we fight and agonize over things that in the end just might be the best thing for all involved, maybe that is what your RAH needs to find his own way back to himself.
It's not easy, and right now you may just be the only one that is capable of doing what is right for all involved. It's a big weight to carry, but you are the strong one.
I hope you find some way to comfort yourself in this difficult day that you face.
sending you a huge hug, Katie xo
PS It's going to be okay.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Wishing you all the strength I have, Graceland. I know you are afraid of hurting him, but you cannot protect him that way.
A separation is not a divorce. It's a time-out so you can both take care of yourselves. Perhaps there is a divorce in future, perhaps not. You can't know until you are both in place where you can actually make decisions and figure out what you want. A "war zone" is not that place.
A separation is not a divorce. It's a time-out so you can both take care of yourselves. Perhaps there is a divorce in future, perhaps not. You can't know until you are both in place where you can actually make decisions and figure out what you want. A "war zone" is not that place.
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Often, doing the right thing means doing the hardest thing. I left at 6 weeks into his recovery - and I would make the same decision again today. But it was very painful and gut-wrenching to have to even be in that kind of position to begin with.
But I loved myself more, if that makes any sense. And I knew my chances of being a good spouse during early recovery were slim to none. It was a loving gesture toward him, regardless of how he chooses to view it.
Stay strong!
~T
But I loved myself more, if that makes any sense. And I knew my chances of being a good spouse during early recovery were slim to none. It was a loving gesture toward him, regardless of how he chooses to view it.
Stay strong!
~T
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 391
Graceland,
In a war zone we make choices and decisions about survival. When we are safe and at peace, we make the choices for our future and our happiness. At least in my mind, this is the way it should be. I know your kind heart feels bad for him....but you also deserve kindness.
I've been in the war zone and now my home is one of peace. My mind works better when I'm at peace. Please know that you deserve peace.
You can do this.
Be careful today and be kind to yourself. I'm rooting for you and hopeful that you are now on the path to peace in your life whether that means divorce or not.
Sending love and support.
Hugs,
MamaKit
In a war zone we make choices and decisions about survival. When we are safe and at peace, we make the choices for our future and our happiness. At least in my mind, this is the way it should be. I know your kind heart feels bad for him....but you also deserve kindness.
I've been in the war zone and now my home is one of peace. My mind works better when I'm at peace. Please know that you deserve peace.
You can do this.
Be careful today and be kind to yourself. I'm rooting for you and hopeful that you are now on the path to peace in your life whether that means divorce or not.
Sending love and support.
Hugs,
MamaKit
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I stuck it out while he was dry so I could prolong the time I had to do things I wanted to do. I figured it was already a quid pro quo relationship. We had no intimacy, no sex. He rarely slept in the same bedroom. I gnashed my teeth around him, and tried to find ways to detach. He could stay there, I told him, but he had to be dry, and he OWED me the time I wanted to do my own thing. He complied for about ten months.
So I did manage to go to therapy weekly for a year, start some great projects that are still ongoing, and get out occasionally with friends. These are things that are keeping me going over the last 5-6 weeks he's been out of the house. I go back and forth, but I feel pretty good overall about him leaving and I know a lot of that is having had the time to start putting together Team Florence.
Do what you need to do, mama. You have options.
So I did manage to go to therapy weekly for a year, start some great projects that are still ongoing, and get out occasionally with friends. These are things that are keeping me going over the last 5-6 weeks he's been out of the house. I go back and forth, but I feel pretty good overall about him leaving and I know a lot of that is having had the time to start putting together Team Florence.
Do what you need to do, mama. You have options.
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Nj
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I wish I could offer strength, but my own is having trouble today as well..All we can do is what is best for ourselves. It is so incredibly difficult though. I to was told in al-anon to wait a year into my program to make any decisions, but I just couldnt go on like that. For me-this was when my relationship should be easy. If it's not easy now, what would happen when we got married? You need to do what is best for yourself and your children. Yes, it may hurt him, but try to remember all the times he hurt you. As much as we want to help, we cant fight their demons, and unfortunatly they cant fully love us until they face their demons themselves.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Dear Graceland, I am glad to hear you mention the children. You are so right, because this isn't fair for them--and it isn't fair to you either.
Sometimes, we mothers find the strength to do the right thing for our children's welfare when we can't quite do it for ourselves.
You are way stronger than you think you are......all of us are...LOL!
sincerely, dandylion
Sometimes, we mothers find the strength to do the right thing for our children's welfare when we can't quite do it for ourselves.
You are way stronger than you think you are......all of us are...LOL!
sincerely, dandylion
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 284
Many hugs, Graceland. I grieved for a long time (still am, really) the loss of my most cherished dream after I left my AH. It felt like I lost a huge part of myself, my direction and purpose. I have been learning that it is okay to nurture new dreams. Actually, I think we should always be thinking up new dreams because life is just not constant. And, I realize now that there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all kind of dream that will work in any situation in my life. It's a work-in-progress still, but my new dream includes a peaceful home. Well, it's a start anyway.
Take care,
Fathom
Take care,
Fathom
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I cannot change alcoholism. I have no power over the disease and RAH will always be in my life. But I can change whether my home is a refuge of peace or a war zone. I choose peace.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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What Really Happened
I read all of your words of encouragement and, after doing so, I feel slightly embarrassed.
We had a two hour long conversation. This was not the plan. The plan was to say what I wanted to say and get out. To my credit, I say that I wanted a separation. I did not have any love left and nor did I have any trust. He said that a separation was the worst case scenario and that he wanted to come back to his family.
He admitted that he had issues with anger and resentment, although he said that some of that was in response to my anger. He wants to work together to have "family time" with our children.
He also said that he agreed with me that our children have a single place to rest their heads. The answer to this, according to him would be to stay together. He said that should we separate that his lawyer told him how to seek 50 / 50 custody which I think would be a disaster for the children. Great. Big legal battle. There was no thought about what would be best for the children - just his right not to give away his children.
One part of me wants to believe this. He's still recovering and part of me wants to see if we can make it work. However, another part of me knows that the longer that I delay the decision, the more my argument for custody diminishes.
He wrote the following note and showed it to me. What do you think? I'm not quite sure about the audience.
The decision to go: My wife is done with my promises to stop drinking and I don’t blame her. I start seeing a counselor and eventually, confront my own denial and start AA. I dive in head first and follow most all of the advice. I haven’t missed a meeting yet and always come out feeling I’ve learned from the fellowship, feeling better about myself. Sharing this with my wife only makes my marriage worse. After hearing that being around me was like walking on egg shells, I’m the one walking on egg shells. I can do no right.
Her demand for me to go, haggled from months to a week; I agree. We both need a break from each other. Recovery and marriage are tough. Who am I to keep her from feeling a little relief? Maybe I won’t be seen as ‘the evil one’, on my return.
I say my goodbyes and head out. All three of them are like, yeah, whatever. I’m shaken and getting worse. There is no way I’m going out to dinner. I want to crawl in a hole and hide. After stopping for milk and bread, I arrive at the hotel and check-in. I’m embarrassed to bring in the bags of groceries using a luggage cart, but there isn’t even anyone there to see.
Later, as I watch TV, my anxiety grows and tears well in my eyes. This goes on all evening and into the night. I don’t sleep well and my stomach turns all night and into the morning.
I pick the boys up during the morning routine. I am still a mess. My wife’s beaming smile is like daggers in my heart. She’s loving me out of the house, I think. As she leaves us at the door, all I can do is turn to her and say, I’m very sad, and walk away.
After returning to the hotel, I crawled back into bed to try to get more sleep. More sleep always seems to help. After two hours, I awake from a dream. In the dream, I remember my wife saying, You can do this!, referring to recovery. I quickly wish the dream was real. I need her to say, believe, and feel those words. I need her support and I need my family. It’s at this point that I think to start the journal. I’ve never been good about saying how I feel.
Bottom line: I love my wife. I love my kids. I need them now, more than ever. I will do right by them, if they will only have me. I want us to be happy. I want us to be whole. I want us to live our lives together; the good times and the tough times. I want us to be a family with love, understanding, support, compassion, caring, and more love.
We had a two hour long conversation. This was not the plan. The plan was to say what I wanted to say and get out. To my credit, I say that I wanted a separation. I did not have any love left and nor did I have any trust. He said that a separation was the worst case scenario and that he wanted to come back to his family.
He admitted that he had issues with anger and resentment, although he said that some of that was in response to my anger. He wants to work together to have "family time" with our children.
He also said that he agreed with me that our children have a single place to rest their heads. The answer to this, according to him would be to stay together. He said that should we separate that his lawyer told him how to seek 50 / 50 custody which I think would be a disaster for the children. Great. Big legal battle. There was no thought about what would be best for the children - just his right not to give away his children.
One part of me wants to believe this. He's still recovering and part of me wants to see if we can make it work. However, another part of me knows that the longer that I delay the decision, the more my argument for custody diminishes.
He wrote the following note and showed it to me. What do you think? I'm not quite sure about the audience.
The decision to go: My wife is done with my promises to stop drinking and I don’t blame her. I start seeing a counselor and eventually, confront my own denial and start AA. I dive in head first and follow most all of the advice. I haven’t missed a meeting yet and always come out feeling I’ve learned from the fellowship, feeling better about myself. Sharing this with my wife only makes my marriage worse. After hearing that being around me was like walking on egg shells, I’m the one walking on egg shells. I can do no right.
Her demand for me to go, haggled from months to a week; I agree. We both need a break from each other. Recovery and marriage are tough. Who am I to keep her from feeling a little relief? Maybe I won’t be seen as ‘the evil one’, on my return.
I say my goodbyes and head out. All three of them are like, yeah, whatever. I’m shaken and getting worse. There is no way I’m going out to dinner. I want to crawl in a hole and hide. After stopping for milk and bread, I arrive at the hotel and check-in. I’m embarrassed to bring in the bags of groceries using a luggage cart, but there isn’t even anyone there to see.
Later, as I watch TV, my anxiety grows and tears well in my eyes. This goes on all evening and into the night. I don’t sleep well and my stomach turns all night and into the morning.
I pick the boys up during the morning routine. I am still a mess. My wife’s beaming smile is like daggers in my heart. She’s loving me out of the house, I think. As she leaves us at the door, all I can do is turn to her and say, I’m very sad, and walk away.
After returning to the hotel, I crawled back into bed to try to get more sleep. More sleep always seems to help. After two hours, I awake from a dream. In the dream, I remember my wife saying, You can do this!, referring to recovery. I quickly wish the dream was real. I need her to say, believe, and feel those words. I need her support and I need my family. It’s at this point that I think to start the journal. I’ve never been good about saying how I feel.
Bottom line: I love my wife. I love my kids. I need them now, more than ever. I will do right by them, if they will only have me. I want us to be happy. I want us to be whole. I want us to live our lives together; the good times and the tough times. I want us to be a family with love, understanding, support, compassion, caring, and more love.
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Well... here's my thing.
When I see that note, you know what I see?
I see "Me, me, me, I'm in pain, I'm hurting, poor me, me, me, me, I'm feeling bad, I don't like being uncomfortable, me, me, me, please pity me because I'm sad, me, me, me."
I see you depicted as a two-dimensional character, almost a cardboard cut-out. Not a person. I see the children even less sketched-out.
It's all about him.
And that's the way I think it is in recovery.
And has to be.
I would, however, not be swayed by that. It's written to elicit sympathy and compassion. Given that I've been married to an A, it does neither for me -- it makes me angry and slightly nauseated.
When I see that note, you know what I see?
I see "Me, me, me, I'm in pain, I'm hurting, poor me, me, me, me, I'm feeling bad, I don't like being uncomfortable, me, me, me, please pity me because I'm sad, me, me, me."
I see you depicted as a two-dimensional character, almost a cardboard cut-out. Not a person. I see the children even less sketched-out.
It's all about him.
And that's the way I think it is in recovery.
And has to be.
I would, however, not be swayed by that. It's written to elicit sympathy and compassion. Given that I've been married to an A, it does neither for me -- it makes me angry and slightly nauseated.
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Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,754
Why are you embarrassed??
Not sure I understand????
Some of what he said in the journal or whatever it was sounded like he was playing victim, some sounded like he was digging at you a bit.
The bottom line is, if he is serious about his recovery he will continue forward, to be the man he wants to be, the father he should be , and if things work out for you and him the husband you want.
Those words need to be followed by actions. You have put up with his crap, he needs to work on himself and give you the space you need.
Not sure I understand????
Some of what he said in the journal or whatever it was sounded like he was playing victim, some sounded like he was digging at you a bit.
The bottom line is, if he is serious about his recovery he will continue forward, to be the man he wants to be, the father he should be , and if things work out for you and him the husband you want.
Those words need to be followed by actions. You have put up with his crap, he needs to work on himself and give you the space you need.
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I agree
Originally Posted by Katiekate 
The bottom line is, if he is serious about his recovery he will continue forward, to be the man he wants to be, the father he should be , and if things work out for you and him the husband you want.
Those words need to be followed by actions. You have put up with his crap, he needs to work on himself and give you the space you need.
Those words need to be followed by actions. You have put up with his crap, he needs to work on himself and give you the space you need.
Am I ready to be done? I think that it comes down to that question. I'm ready to be done if he doesn't change. If the actions don't happen, then I am done. I'm not prepared to wait long - perhaps the weekend. That's pretty much it. Then, he could argue in court that I'm the problem. I'm the one not willing to give his recovery a chance. The thing is that I am, but I don't want him to recover around us and I don't think that he fully understands that. I don't think that we can recover in the same space.
ARGHH. As usual with me, I can't pull the trigger. I vacillate, I decide and decide again. I have prevailed when we're on opposite sides of a big decision. I don't feel strong enough to do this.
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Then, he could argue in court that I'm the problem. I'm the one not willing to give his recovery a chance.
especially his lawyer who believes that he can get 50/50 custody
I can't recall a single situation anywhere where a family court judge ordered 50/50 visitation, and the parents didn't agree on it. I certainly can't imagine a judge deciding that kids must(!) spend 50% of their time with a guy that's being left because of his drinking problem. If his lawyer said anything in this ballpark, his lawyer is an idiot.
I'm betting that he misunderstands "joint custody" and is shooting off at the hip. All that joint custody means is that you have to agree on major decisions. Joint custody is presumptive anymore, but that doesn't mean it's a given. Especially if addiction is in the picture. "Joint custody" doesn't mean anything about visitation time. Your state might have some "visitation guidelines" that you can google.
He can say whatever he wants, he can ask for whatever he wants, but this is a straight up empty threat.
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Join Date: Aug 2012
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Originally Posted by Graceland
The only problem is that the space I need is over the course of months and if we're separated that long, then we have to make it legal (this is for the protection of both of us). I think that once we get the lawyers involved, especially his lawyer who believes that he can get 50/50 custody, then we're done. All of his good intentions will go out the window and I'll continue to be the "bad" person the he thinks that I am.
Maybe you can find out how long you can separate without making it legal, and then ask for one week less than that. You don't know how long it will really take, but being bullied into making a black and white decision right now isn't going to magically make everything okay.
I hope this doesn't sound harsh -- this impression I get that you are being pressured to decide everything right away must be some kind of trigger I don't know about. I wish you strength and courage as you work through this.
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The 50/50 custody sounds like an empty threat to me.
It is also using the kids to go against you.
I got a parenting agreement rather than a court order, he put heaps of stuff in there that looked good like sharing holidays etc but he didn't follow through on any of it.
It is also using the kids to go against you.
I got a parenting agreement rather than a court order, he put heaps of stuff in there that looked good like sharing holidays etc but he didn't follow through on any of it.
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Originally Posted by Graceland
I agree completely with everything that you've said here, Katie. The only problem is that the space I need is over the course of months and if we're separated that long, then we have to make it legal (this is for the protection of both of us). I think that once we get the lawyers involved, especially his lawyer who believes that he can get 50/50 custody, then we're done. All of his good intentions will go out the window and I'll continue to be the "bad" person the he thinks that I am.
Am I ready to be done? I think that it comes down to that question. I'm ready to be done if he doesn't change. If the actions don't happen, then I am done. I'm not prepared to wait long - perhaps the weekend. That's pretty much it. Then, he could argue in court that I'm the problem. I'm the one not willing to give his recovery a chance. The thing is that I am, but I don't want him to recover around us and I don't think that he fully understands that. I don't think that we can recover in the same space.
ARGHH. As usual with me, I can't pull the trigger. I vacillate, I decide and decide again. I have prevailed when we're on opposite sides of a big decision. I don't feel strong enough to do this.
Am I ready to be done? I think that it comes down to that question. I'm ready to be done if he doesn't change. If the actions don't happen, then I am done. I'm not prepared to wait long - perhaps the weekend. That's pretty much it. Then, he could argue in court that I'm the problem. I'm the one not willing to give his recovery a chance. The thing is that I am, but I don't want him to recover around us and I don't think that he fully understands that. I don't think that we can recover in the same space.
ARGHH. As usual with me, I can't pull the trigger. I vacillate, I decide and decide again. I have prevailed when we're on opposite sides of a big decision. I don't feel strong enough to do this.
His feelings are going to be up and down and all over the place, it is possible to get back on track if you are not living together. I guess I'm confused, who is backing you into a corner??? You made a clear statement, you need space, that is the most important part of this equation, if you need it, and you don't take it, then the strain may just destroy any chance of getting back together once you are both healthy.
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Graceland, you don't have to re-think a decision you've come to just because he doesn't like it.
When I was wavering about leaving my AH, my psychiatrist, who knew him and knew the damage he'd caused, said "This marriage is bankrupt. It doesn't mean that you couldn't re-marry in the future if you each and both heal and get to a different place. You could choose that, then. But this marriage is bankrupt."
Now that I am 4 months gone, I see the layers and layers of devastation that I was living with. I wish I could give you my hindsight!
About the custody threats, I'd suggest seeing a lawyer or two for an initial consultation about separation/divorce/custody and see what the laws actually are in your state.
And if you think you may be leaving, there are lots of financial stuff you should do beforehand to protect you and your kids. First of all is to make sure you have a bank account with money in your name, solely is best, or as the primary account holder. Do the same with a credit card with as high a debt limit as you can get.
What is true for you is true for you, despite his feelings of weakness or abandonment. To want to come back because he is afraid he can't make it without you is really saying that he has not pulled deep enough into his soul to be committed to his recovery, come h%ll or high water.
Take care, your boundaries are good ones, necessary for you and your kids.
Believe in yourself and your future.
ShootingStar1
When I was wavering about leaving my AH, my psychiatrist, who knew him and knew the damage he'd caused, said "This marriage is bankrupt. It doesn't mean that you couldn't re-marry in the future if you each and both heal and get to a different place. You could choose that, then. But this marriage is bankrupt."
Now that I am 4 months gone, I see the layers and layers of devastation that I was living with. I wish I could give you my hindsight!
About the custody threats, I'd suggest seeing a lawyer or two for an initial consultation about separation/divorce/custody and see what the laws actually are in your state.
And if you think you may be leaving, there are lots of financial stuff you should do beforehand to protect you and your kids. First of all is to make sure you have a bank account with money in your name, solely is best, or as the primary account holder. Do the same with a credit card with as high a debt limit as you can get.
What is true for you is true for you, despite his feelings of weakness or abandonment. To want to come back because he is afraid he can't make it without you is really saying that he has not pulled deep enough into his soul to be committed to his recovery, come h%ll or high water.
Take care, your boundaries are good ones, necessary for you and your kids.
Believe in yourself and your future.
ShootingStar1
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Dear Graceland, from where I sit, it looks like he is pushing every button that you have. And, doing a pretty good job of it at that.
It sounds like he is still wallowing in narcissistic alcoholic selfishness. Like a 4yr. old, he wants what he wants and he wants it his way. He is also deflecting all the blame for his situation on to you. It sounds like he is threatening you with "custody battle" if you don't go along with him.
He sounds like he still has a long way to go to achieving recovery and toward working on his marriage.
Maybe, holding your boundries for what you need would be a first lesson that this isn't all about him, any more.
Sincerely, dandylion
It sounds like he is still wallowing in narcissistic alcoholic selfishness. Like a 4yr. old, he wants what he wants and he wants it his way. He is also deflecting all the blame for his situation on to you. It sounds like he is threatening you with "custody battle" if you don't go along with him.
He sounds like he still has a long way to go to achieving recovery and toward working on his marriage.
Maybe, holding your boundries for what you need would be a first lesson that this isn't all about him, any more.
Sincerely, dandylion
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