Florence

I keep going back and forth about whether or not it's good for me to be separated from AH and pursue divorce or whether I should keep doing the "one last chance to save our marriage" dance indefinitely. I know what the right thing to do IS, but I keep feeling doubts and sadness about the end of this terrible relationship. We are not NC because I haven't had any issues with talking to him. I am maintaining minimal contact and we talk about once or twice a week when he sees our daughter. He is one month sober from a big relapse and I am being very cautious.

My brain says this is the right thing to do. I see the patterns, I see the manipulation, the lies, and his dishonesty. I can look back over the wreckage and see that he's incapable of loving me like I deserve and of being a family man in any sense of the word. I can see the differences between what he says and what he does, and my frustration with the gaps, and my unwillingness to settle for this and pay the consequences of his uncontrollable drinking.

I have felt pretty good since he's been gone this last month. I've been grieving appropriately and taking care of myself. The house is clean, everyone is fed, the bills are paid.

But I also have that tiny voice inside that tells me I'm too damaged for anyone else to love, that even my parents couldn't/didn't love me, that I'm going to be alone for the rest of my life, that he couldn't get sober because I/we weren't worth it, that bad relationships are my lot in life, that I'm screwing up my kids, that I have no judge of character, etc etc. I'm also dreading the very hard financial reality of supporting me and my kids and paying off old Sallie Mae on my tiny salary. There are a lot of unknowns and fears that are plaguing me and weakening my resolve.

Last night he called to tell me that he just accepted a new job and to give me a heads up that his hours and availability would be changing. He told me a little about the job and all I can say about it is that he's going to **** himself again. It's in an environment in his old career that he has said was triggering for the last two years, and he will be working in traditionally alcohol-soaked environments. All he sees is dollar signs -- he'll be making salary and benefits and isn't that great? I was pretty mum, and tried not to share any of my opinions about how and whether this will be a disaster.

Inside, I had a whole lot of feelings (RANT AHEAD!):

(1) For years I've been begging him to find a job with a decent salary so I didn't have to work two jobs or keep inventing money-making hobbies. He did everything BUT this...

(1a) until he was on his own and realized just how little he was making and looking at living in his parents' house forever. He also made a big deal about only wanting to work a job he LOVES. What a privilege, to only do things one loves to do for oneself. Anyway, his own short-term embarrassment was more meaningful to him than his family's welfare and his wife's mental health. After five years of marriage, there are no marital assets to split, because of his low wages, unemployment, and messed up spending habits.

(2) He, and his mega-enabling and willfully ignorant parents, believe that this is a huge victory because a good job will give him better self-esteem, and self-esteem is 100% the reason why AH is an alcoholic.

(2a)

(3) The delusion! It's like Superman being like, "I can TOTALLY work in a KRYPTONITE factory as long as I'm really extra self-aware now. My willpower has ALWAYS protected me from the effects of kryptonite in the past!"



So anyway, after I felt all my feelings about this, it amazed me that there was still a tiny voice somewhere deep down in there that was encouraging me to just put my head down, let him move back in, and take advantage of the financial bump in income.

I keep having to remind myself what the actual day to day miserable reality of living with him looked like. It meant never being heard, never feeling cared for or validated, never having my needs met, and always waiting for the other shoe to drop. There were some good times, but those were the exceptions. Sadly, this isn't exaggeration, it's just the way it was.

I'm struggling with acceptance today and my inability to forecast the future.

dancingnow

Hugs to you (((Florence))).

Do you go to alanon? Something that is said there is "don't take it personally". Going may help you with some of these feelings you have - Also alanon may help move you along with your awareness, acceptance and action and give you whatever courage you need to affect and change your day to day reality and make the choices that are best for you.

Whether you stay or leave is inconsequential (unless there are safety reasons) if you are taking the next best step for yourself and becoming more financially secure may be that next best step or it may not.

In alanon you can feel heard and validated.

Prayers for you on your journey.

Florence

Al-Anon is sadly mostly absent in my area. Huge AA and NA communities and not much in the way of Al-Anon. I'm using SR, lots and lots of recommended readings, and individual counseling. I haven't been able to see my counselor this last month while I figure out how to juggle childcare so I can attend, which might be one reason I'm so back and forth. I have an appointment with her next week.

I'm just shocked at how my brain can grasp and know something, while my heart? inner child? ego? still feels alone and abandoned, and how strong those urges are to alleviate the pain of hurt and abandonment despite knowing quite intimately what the consequences of those actions would be.

dancingnow

IMO and from my experience only my HP and I can help me stop the pain of feeling alone and abandoned. I am ok for the most part, although not always. When I enmesh this with RAH and his issues it just becomes a big mess so I am grateful to be able to step away from that and focus on what I need to do for me.

It is hard to juggle everything we need to do for ourselves and our children. Hope you get some relief for you soon.

FireSprite

I can almost guarantee that you aren't "too damaged", have SO much to offer others & deserve to be happy. Your posts here on SR are intelligent, supportive & helpful & I always enjoy hearing things from your perspective.

Obviously, you have to do whatever is best for you. What if you give yourself a deadline to make a decision & take the time until then to categorize your thoughts? Is this his 1st attempt at sobriety? How long have you been separated? Is he working a program or giving you any reason to expect long-term changes? Is his sobriety as important to him as it is to you?

I agree with Dancing that the only thing that is important is what is best for you & your DD... and maybe that does involve staying long enough to get yourself in a better financial position.... or maybe it means you are done with a capital D and not interested in continuing the charade.... or maybe you really think that in time & with therapy you will be happy in this relationship again?


I know it's been said, but this is EXACTLY the kind of stuff that EFT tapping helped me to work through. If you haven't given it a shot, & since therapy/Al-Anon can be hard for you, it really might be worth trying.


____________________________________

OT but a little funny for you: I swear, just this morning DD came to me & asked, "Mom, what is acceptance?"

Me: Why do you ask? "It's one of my vocabulary words for this week & I am having a hard time understanding it's definition so I'm trying to use it in a sentence. But I'm really just not getting it!"

Me: You aren't the only one, DD!

I had to seriously stop & work at explaining this word because my immediate responses were all A/recovery related & not the kind of stuff I want to encourage her to share in class, lol....... I finally got it through to her in terms of acceptance speeches made when accepting an award.

Learn2Live

I had to make up my mind that I was not a victim. I had to refuse to see myself that way. I had to learn how to not be all dramatic and emotional. I had to teach myself how to not react. I had to learn how to be one with myself and one with the earth (yoga!) I had to be courageous enough to see how childish and immature I was, and had to make effort to grow myself. I had to accept that I really wanted to be spoiled by my BF, be treated like a little girl, and that that was truly narcissistic (I took an online test for it LOL) and not very womanly or attractive. I had to stop feeling sorry for myself, climb out of my pity pot (it helped to realize that I learned self-pity, and automatically tried to get others to feel sorry for me, from my alcoholic father), and get to work deciding what I wanted for my life.

Hope something here helps you today.

SparkleKitty

I understand that feeling of perceiving yourself as too damaged for anyone else to love, and I encourage you to fight that feeling, not to give in to it and settle for less than you really want out of a relationship. I hope you find a way to trust that those feelings are just the results of a long losing battle against someone else's addiction. Only in finding freedom from that damaging cycle can you begin to build a new perception of yourself as someone any good person would be extraordinarily lucky to be with.

That's what happened to me. I believed I wasn't good enough for good people. Growing up in an alcoholic home taught me that. It was only after spending a great deal of time with myself, and eliminating all the negative influences from my life that I could accept myself, love myself, and understand that I was as worthy of respect, decency, and love as I believed literally everyone on the planet was except me.

Don't give up. I think you're swell.

Graceland

I'm in a very, very similar place.

RAH is out of the house this week to give me some "space."

This means that I had to take out the trash and put it on the curb.

This has always been RAH's job. He would rant and rave about it most of night before. "I can't do that, Graceland, I'm collecting the trash" and "It's trash night, Graceland, can't you see I'm busy." On and on and on about the trash. I couldn't talk to him or ask him anything for fear of getting in the way of his trash-collecting mission. It was very stressful.

So, I was a little nervous about putting out the trash.

Yes, you read me right. I was worried about the trash.

You know how long putting out the trash takes? Really takes?

It takes all of FIVE MINUTES. If that. It's a breeze. And if I miss a trashcan, well, it goes into next week's trash.

Yesterday, I was sure that I was going to leave him. I contacted the lawyer; I got the list of documents that she needed; and I set about gathering money for the retainer. When I got up this morning, however, I was wavering. What if he takes this week to get his head on straight? What if he gets better this week and comes back a changed man?

Then, I took out the trash.

I think that both of us need to keep the anxiety and drama of living daily with an alcoholic at the very top of our minds. I'm in constant danger of forgetting it. I wonder if all the mess that getting out will be is worth it. And I have to keep reminding myself that it is. The status quo has been enough for ten years, but it is no longer enough for me. Even if I never find another significant other, it will be okay. More than okay, actually.

I am more lonely with my RAH than I am sitting in an empty room.

lovesunandsnow

Then, I took out the trash...

I really relate to what you said. "Then, I took out the trash", I am letting trash live inside my head and heart and it hurts. So I wish you the best on your decision to stay or leave, but now you know like you just said it only took you 5 min to take out the trash. That is a power statement to me

Tuffgirl

Florence, one of Toby Rice Drews "Getting Them Sober" series covers this very topic. I think its volume 4. I just read it - the kindle version was really lousy and full of typos, but I got the gist anyway, and I needed the affirmation this month that I did the right thing.

It sounds like you are in the "in between" stage, or as I read somewhere, stuck in the hallway between one door closing and another door opening. It's dark in that hallway! But for right now, this is where you need to be.

Time will either give him enough rope to hang himself or push him into actions he hasn't taken before. But what that means for you is patience that more will be revealed. Patience is not my strong suit, but standing here in my own proverbial hallway, patience is my only viable option.

Hang in there,
~T

P.S. LOVED the superman analogy!

Florence

Since I'm struggling with the "devil you do/don't know" stuff, I really feel this today. The status quo isn't enough. THANK YOU!

I'm giving myself some time to decide how and when to file. It's going to take awhile to get all the paperwork necessary to do it, plus the county makes you take a bunch of divorce classes to file. I'm kind of avoiding it while I find my footing. He's only been gone a month since I discovered his latest relapse. I can't afford a retainer.

No, this is not his first attempt at sobriety. He's been through 3 rehabs in two years, and has continued to relapse. While he has made progress as far as being able to get longer lengths of time sober, our relationship has not improved and he has been unwilling to hear my needs or respond to them.

He talks a good game. He goes through the motions. It's very easy to think that he's doing what he needs to do. But if you're at all educated about addiction and involved in the recovery process, it's apparent he's just not there yet. Won't get a sponsor, doesn't work the steps, is erratic about counseling appointments. He's terminally unique -- doesn't need all that stuff. He's got willpower. He's "aware." He's very investing in appearing fine and under control and a lot of people around him buy it, including our families (they're all here locally) who think I'm cutting him off right as he's turning his life around, but we've been-here-done-that half a dozen times. It's like I'm the only one that can see this is just another phase in a relapse cycle. Which makes me feel a little crazy.

Part of me thinks that if only I could convince our families to educate themselves we could be insulated from another round of fallout. I know that's the codependency talking -- I can't force anyone to learn anything they aren't interested in seeing, or actively invested in not seeing.

Again, the codependence/victim narratives are just really, really strong today. Instead of acting on all this crap -- and I know it's crap, damn it! -- I'm writing here. You guys know what's up.

BlueSkies1

Florence, why do you think your parents never loved you?

That stuck out to me. You might want to take a look at that, and why you feel that way, in order to facilitate your own growth.

Sometimes when I am feeling down I think a bunch of blanket statements. I can't say you are doing that, only you can say if you are or not.
I think though, for your own growth, you need to work that out in your head before you can move along to what needs attention next.
I agree with you and other posters on things about the alcoholic relationship, but that jumped out on the page.

Florence

Sigh. This is one I'm working out in therapy. My folks singled me out from my siblings in really gross and obvious ways several times over the years. I don't want to go too deeply into it, but my Mom in particular is nasty and passive-aggressive. She lacks boundaries and likes to keep secrets and control information, and claims to be a peacekeeper while isolating members of the family and simultaneously stirring up sh**. They have their own weird codependency cycle going -- Dad is a major depressive, never treated, and Mom is a textbook controlling/martyr codependent and she probably has some other emotional and personality things going on. Despite me feeling particularly singled out, my sisters and I all report feeling like collateral damage in their marriage. My parents are still married, HOW I have no idea.

Unfortunately I rely on them for a lot of support, mostly for babysitting, especially now that I'm operating solo again. But that also means navigating a lot of choppy emotional waters and knowing that every favor has a string attached. It has taken a lot for me to be able to deal with them without getting into the mud. I'm so beaten down emotionally by this latest turn of events with AH that my mom's guilt trips are sinking in. Maybe it's her I need to go no contact with.

"Enmeshed" is probably a good word for it. This has been an ongoing issue in my adult life and I've been trying to get away from this situation, but the reality of divorce and the possibility of needing to lean on yet more unreliable people is a real setback. I isolated myself as AH's disease progressed and don't have much of an outside support structure at the moment.

I just got this! Apparently it arrived at the right time.

BlueSkies1

My mother is a minister, manipulator, and controls via privvy info also. Honestly though, I've come to this point in my life where I realize she has X capacity to understand herself, hence limited understanding of others.
My point being, your parents may have emotional issues and a lack of mature growth in some areas--but YOU don't have to own that. It has nothing to do with you.
Your self-worth is not determined by childhood baggage or experiences. Leave that behind you now...you're a grown up adult individual, as your own person in your own right, you own their feelings no more than someone not related to them would.
Our parents are what they are--is it not true that every generation surpasses the last and outdistances them? Isn't that what nature intended?
You can love your parents with their limitations. They love you in their limited understanding of how to love.
think of it as a new form of detachment? Detach yourself from their baggage. You don't own it--that makes you free of it. You can lovingly watch them spew garbage out of their mouths, knowing all the while you don't own it, they do.
If it helps, everytime you see them imagine yourself as a successful daughter that moved far away a long tiime ago, carved out her own life, and revisits the family no longer immeshed as a part of the madness.

Anon12

This really resonated with me - this was exactly how my XABF was. He started off well, going to therapy, saying it helped. Then slowly the sessions became sporadic, the therapist was expecting him to 'give up everything and feel nothing'. When he finally tried AA, he went to two meetings in one week, then once a week. Then said it took time to get a sponsor (I didn't know any different). When he did, he was very defensive if I asked anything (I thought that might be normal initially and I backed off as I was wary of prying). After a while I'm not sure whether he even went to the meetings. I stopped asking. Then he eventually decided he could drink, just try one. It was so text book, I really hit me that 'the drinking problem' I couldn't quite call alcoholism, was exactly that.

I too am struggling with acceptance and not knowing what my future holds. I split up from XABF nearly five months ago and still finding it so hard. I don't miss the worry, the anxiety, the stress, the lies, the drinking but I miss the good stuff. I'm 39 and I worry I have left it too late to meet anyone and have a family - XABF and I made plans but the goal posts kept changing as he wanted to have achieved x before we got married, earned x before we had children. It was never going to happen as drinking vodka on the quiet has a nasty habit of getting in the way of earning or achieving. I don't doubt I did the right thing in finishing it as I just couldn't cope anymore but I have replayed stuff in my mind over and over and wish I could just let it go. I worry that when he gave up drinking I wasn't supportive enough. Your post reminded me I wasn't going mad, he wasn't properly giving it up and it wasn't my fault. Thank you for reminding me I'm not to blame. I hope things get better for you soon.

4MyBoys

Florence, You are going through a lot right now. Maybe to give yourself a break from the added stress of your parents watching the kids you can look into discounted or free daycare programs your county or the state offers. I found out that my youngest could go to State Preschool for free even when my husband and I were just seperated and not even filed for divorce or seperation yet. Check online and ask a lot of questions. There is more help out there than I had ever heard of.......

If you can aliviate so of the other stesses in your life maybe you will be able so see some of the other more pressing issues a little more clearly.

Take care,
4MyBoys

keepingmyjoy1

I keep having to remind myself what the actual day to day miserable reality of living with him looked like. It meant never being heard, never feeling cared for or validated, never having my needs met, and always waiting for the other shoe to drop. There were some good times, but those were the exceptions. Sadly, this isn't exaggeration, it's just the way it was.

Wow, that is so a reminder of my life! I am in a very similar place and I have very similar thoughts. I can only share that I just go about everyday working on me, taking care of myself and son, and just trying make good choices in all the little things that I can. The big things can wait until they become more urgent than they are now. For now, I just try to be grateful for the peace that I have and accept that I do not have to beat myself up because I don't want to live in limbo, walk on eggshells, and take time away from my son to be a mother to an ungrateful AH.

Be kind to yourself and know that you are loved, no matter what happened with your parents. My parents disowned me because I did not want to be part of their religion anymore. I am dead to them. Took me years to get where I am with that, and it still hurts. But I am lovable, and I am loved, no matter what bad choices they made or even what bad choices I made.

Florence

A quick update:

I had my angry, flailing around day yesterday. Still kind of exasperated, but not freaking out.

AH stopped by last night to see the baby and pick up some dress pants for about thirty minutes. Whenever I talk to him he's always emphasizing that he's on his way TO A MEETING. He needs to leave soon because of MY MEETING. Part of me is surprised at how quickly he has adapted to life without me and the kids, especially the kids. He doesn't seem fazed by it, and he doesn't seem to be concerned about how his actions as an active alcoholic contributed to our current state. I shouldn't be surprised, and yet I am.

He also doesn't want to talk about anything that isn't unicorn farts and sunshine. If there's a shade of bad news or seriousness, he's out the door. Fine! Okay then. So I detached while he was there, let him play with the baby and get his things, and just didn't go there. I didn't want to talk about his awesome new job where he'll work with booze and just be extra careful, so there were a lot of "Mm-hms" and "okays." He started to get hostile because I wasn't playing along with the "everything is totally fine" game -- nor was I fighting it -- and then got mad and left.

Fine again! Okay then. Bathtime for the little one and book and tea time for me.

I read Getting Them Sober, Volume Four, last night from cover to cover. It's an amazingly easy read that reinforces a lot of what we talk about here. Be gentle to yourself. Anger is normal and healthy. Detach with love, if not for him, than for yourself. "Let go, or be dragged." There is also quite a bit about custody and visitation at the end that was helpful to round out my idea of what to look for in a lawyer and ask for in court.

My favorite part of the book talked about all the guilt and anxiety we felt about not doing enough for our As, and then realizing that no matter what we did it wouldn't have made a difference. She said it was "pearls before swine." I haven't heard that phrase in a long, long time, but oh, how I chuckled.

Titanic

You're doing well, really well all things considered Florence!

I just got Vol. 3 & 4, and started right in on Vol. 4 too. Good stuff.

Why don't you consider starting an Al-Anon group. Trust me, if there is a big AA/NA community, there'll be plenty of members for your group. Our home group started 3 years ago and is outgrowing the space, and we just started another group for another night there and it's got about 8 regulars already with an attendance high of 16 (not first meeting)!