freeatlast1313

Just curious, heard the term in another thread. Any one explain?

Freedom1990

A 13th stepper is someone in a 12-step program like AA or NA who preys on the newcomers, specifically for sex and/or relationship. The newcomers are vulnerable, and unfortunately it is not that uncommon in the rooms.

Chris1000101

The 13th step is a combo of the 1st and 12th, my life is unmanageable let me share it with you. It is anyone in any program, most common AA and NA, that uses sex to deal with their issues instead of the steps and a good sponsor.

Titanic

It can be two newcomers, neither of whom are "solid enough" (12&12 of A.A., at page 119) in the program.

In actuality or effect, it's a substitute addiction. The feel good vibe from a new person substitutes for the feel good function of the drink or drug. Thus, a relapse into addiction (assuming there was a day or two of sobriety, at least!).

celticgenes

Yikes! Never heard that term before. I'd like to hope I'd have my eyes open to predators, but now I'll be on the lookout for sure!

Thanks for the heads up.

Hollyanne

No Titanic, to most people, it is people with more "sober" time picking on new members.
Two newcomers oogling eachother are just called idiots.

Natom

I actually have a book with a whole chapter on this and it is exactly as people have described. I guess I was 13th stepped once, not that I minded all that much. But I can imagine it screws a lot of people up.

Titanic

Definitely! What book Natom?

MycoolFitz

I am an old guy and i have been 13th steped. May be a drunk but not that stupid. I have enough problems. Sad though

FlyerFan

sadly it happens, but we all have to learn from our own mistakes and just hope and pray that newcomers won't have to experience it. I have witnessed it happen however.

Natom

I pm'd Titanic the title of the book but in case anyone else was interested in what it was the book is called 'Don't Let The B*stards Grind You Down - 50 Things Every Addict and Alcoholic In Early Recovery Should Know'.

It's written by a member of AA and is a light-hearted, yet informative book that would make a great gift. I got mine on my birthday Here's the Amazon link.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dont-Let-Bas...1502731&sr=8-1

Natom.

Titanic

Thanks much Natom! In checking that book out on amazon, I also found two other books that shed further light on the early recovery (defined in the first book as the first two years of sobriety) issues of relationships and substitute or cross-addictions: 12 Stupid Things That Mess Up Recovery (2008); and 12 Smart Things to Do When the Booze and Drugs Are Gone: Choosing Emotional Sobriety (2010) - both by Allen Berger, PhD & Hazelden Press.

Natom

Hazelden Press publish some very good books on alcoholism and addiction. I had a wish list on Amazon titled 'Recovery' that was full of books on addiction. For my birthday last week my mum bought me a handful of them. There's a picture of them halfway down this thread:

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...y-today-2.html

I strongly recommend buying the book I said about.

Natom.

Titanic

Another thing to think about ... 13th steppers together in meetings:

How much attention can they be paying?
How much can they really share?
Will one disclose a secret relapse?
How much table literature will they be checking out?
How much will they talk with their sponsors or other members?
How truthful will they be about what they did to their spouses or SOs?
Will one or both stop going when there's a break-up, temporary or not?
How will the unity of the group be affected if just one is being steered away from 13th stepping?

I'm sure there are more.

Leftover

Ewwwww!!

Titanic

Not to mention all the PDA.A.!

onlythetruth

I spent enough time in AA (9 years, sober 14 now) to know that 13th stepping is a fairly serious issue.

What it is, is when a more-senior member (often a true oldtimer) hits on a new person for dates or sex. There's another facet to it as well, which is when the senior member (sometimes a sponsor) exploits a newcomer emotionally or financially rather than sexually. Often these predator-type folks are difficult to spot; sometimes they are extremely well spoken and are held up as examples of "good sobriety".

Both sexual and financial 13th stepping happened to me.

While I would not say this is a reason to avoid AA entirely (although it is among the reasons I no longer go) it is extremely important to be aware of it.

Also, it's important to know that there is no real mechanism within the AA structure to prevent this from happening--protection of vulnerable members is left entirely to the groups themselves. This means that if there is a problem, often the very oldtimers involved are the ones who are supposed to fix it. Again, not a reason to avoid AA, but sometimes a reason to avoid a particular meeting.