Lulu39

Is it common for alcoholics/addicts/abusers when there is a choice to be made that affects others, they choose the thing that will upset and hurt other people more than the other choices they could make?

Like, if there is an obviously RIGHT thing to do and an obviously WRONG thing to do, mine will pretend he is going to choose the RIGHT thing, then at the last minute choose the WRONG thing, which, in turn, leads to a CRISIS!

He always chooses the destructive thing. He chooses the thing that is destructive. Every single time. Which, of course, upsets the people who love him and then turns into an excuse for him to drink and take drugs.

I think I answered my own question.

He chooses the wrong thing. Everyone is upset because he chose the wrong thing, now he has another reason to get wasted and blame the world and all humanity for all his woes. AKA: Everybody hates me. Must get wasted.

Hopeworks

Ahhhhh.... the perpetual sabotage thyself so one can go on the "relapse vacation" and then have deep regret, remorse but please forgive and pity me because I have this "disease".

That was my life for four years. I allowed him to perfectly train me to buy into his academy award performances that he consciously or subconsciously allowed to become our roller coaster of the insanity of his choices.

I was blind but now I see...

fluffyflea

Well of course, self-sabotage, create crisis, it's all part of it.

Hopeworks

Hi my name is Hopeworks and I am a card carrying ACOA chaos junkie.

Actually I used to be until I finally got into real recovery and got a new pair of glasses and outlook on WHY I chose to share life with an alcoholic whose life was constantly in a state of recovery or chaos.

I finally realized while his behavior was more bizarre and insane I was actually more broken inside than he was... shattered from childhood and not fully healed. No normie would have stayed in the chaotic crazy making relationship that I had with my XA... I had to unravel myself and the mysteries of my attraction to men whose lives were clouds of perpetual and unrelenting chaos (yes...my last A was not my first rodeo but hopefully my last!).

freeatlast1313

Hi Hope,
Just had this painful epihany yesterday after reading a classic sticky called "Im special" and a post on sociopahic behavior list. Really helped me progress after the initial shock of what these readings meant sunk in.
with love, Free

Boy do I have alot of work to do unraveling my own issues. i am ready.

choublak

With some alcoholics/addicts, their drug of choice is the basis of all choices they make and how others are affected doesn't enter their mind. Now, an alcoholic/addict who is deliberately toying with someone may well be a sociopath. I read somewhere that it is quite common for sociopaths to use drugs and alcohol because it feeds their main drug of choice which is chaos, drama, manipulation.

WishingWell

For me, I watch out for broad, stereotypical statements/questions like > Is it common for alcoholics/addicts/abusers when there is a choice to be made that affects others, they choose the thing that will upset and hurt other people more than the other choices they could make? "They"? As if all are one?

This alone - ?? alcoholics/addicts/abusers

People are individuals. They are humans beings with struggles. We need to see each other beyond labels. See into the human heart. Understand that there is pain, wounds, the struggles - that each of us have. That doesn't mean we condone poor behavior but we can understand some of it. Whenever I start this kind of inner dialogue I go read on the "Alcoholic" board here, or talk to a friend dealing with addiction. It's so clear the suffering.

I see my own struggles and many times it's overwhelming. The one great lesson I learned when I left my husband for close to a year was, while some of the drama certainly lessened, the struggles heightened. I didn't have anyone else to conveniently point to to blame for an upside down life. The only pointing back now in the mirror was me.

It was the beginning of my own greatest awakening. The only power we have in life is over our OWN perceptions. How WE think, how we choose to see the world and each other. We choose anger and bitterness or we choose compassion and peace. There is no one else to blame ultimately.

NYCDoglvr

When someone becomes addicted they have a compulsion to put the substance before everything else. It is god, higher power, love of their life. The addict may get sober but it is on their time, not yours. There is nothing you can do or say that can stop someone else from their drug of choice.

It is important not to lump all alcoholics together. Each is different.

Lulu39

Broad stereotypical statements/questions.

A statement and a question are two different things. Go and check the dictionary.

I asked a QUESTION! I also followed it up with an example from MY LIFE.

Poor alkies, poor poor alkies. Such suffering. They do it so tough.

Stop defending your choice to support your alcoholic come hell or high water by attacking me and my struggles with kicking mine out.

Hopeworks

Wishing Well and Lulu,

Please don't get angry with eachother because I understand both positions because I have been there myself!

Go read my early posts ... I WAS Wishing Well with a different name Hopeworks... and I understand her empathy and yes ... pity... for the suffering alcoholic.

But hoping and wishing for our alkies ... doesn't change anything. Doing for the alcoholic what they should be doing for themselves doesn't change anything either.

I forced my A to stop drinking many times... he was terrified of me and that I might even shoot him dead in one of his drunken blackouts. I forced him into rehab on a number of occasions. He was perfectly capable of not drinking if there were sufficient reason NOT to drink... this was proven to be true many times. He always picked up another drink because he wanted to and his alcoholic voice, his body wanted him to.

Fast forward years later and finally in true recovery myself I accepted the fact that he might die and I let go and let God. Our wishes and hopes no matter how much we love them cannot change anything... we are not that powerful! But our A's HP can if we take the handcuffs of our own stifling fussing, fixing, helicoptering and pity parties.

My XA made a shambles of my life and got me off my own dreams and plans and I completely focused on him and his recovery. I moved to a place that was HIS dream home and environment and put my dreams on hold for a year. I even cosigned a lease... and 10 days later he relapsed and got on a plan to Vegas and drank and gambled for 3 months!

This time I went NC and meant it. He got a DUI in one state and Disorderly Intox in another. I didn't accept the jail calls. He got sober again on his own through rehabs and AA and is now living in another state and in recovery ... again.

Will it stick? The odds aren't good but he is standing on his own and is working 7 days a week and just got a great high paying job offer.

This is a man who hasn't worked for anyone except me for 4 years! He was unemployable! And within 1 week of trying he got a great job... very possibly it was his HP that is helping him since I got my mitts off of running his life and recovery... very poorly in retrospect.

We are treated by everyone the way we allow ourselves to be treated. Let me tell you when my XA knew I was packing my 38 pistol in my pocket and he was announcing he was going to the liquor store to bring liquor into MY house he quickly changed his mind.
Even in alcoholic blackouts he knew not to step across certain boundaries with me... he respected my ability to protect myself and that I could be a dangerous person to him.

Alcoholics can control a lot more than we give them credit for. They stretch boundaries, manipulate and continue to drink because they can and they WANT to. Period.

Yes it is a disease. They know they are hurting others. They know their lives are unmanagable. And most A's know the solutions. Many could open their own rehabs with the knowledge they have alcoholism and addiction.

So I went from 180 degrees... my opinion changed and I think I HURT my A more than I helped him and drove myself crazy during that time of enabling. I did this because I was afraid... very afraid for his life.

Fear is the opposite of faith. When we completely... completely... trust their HP and our HP enough to do whatever it takes for our A to find recovery and their own path it sets EVERYONE free.

And yes they might die. We all die. And when I thought my hovering and helicoptering would "save" him from death I was delusional. My future would have been decades of that insanity and I might have really killed him someday! Lol.

So... we all are at different places and Wishing Well... you may someday pack a gun and be ready to kill that A of yours! Or ... you may take care of him and pity him forever. Or... you might find a balance that works for you!

And Lulu... you will find your balance and your path. We ARE all different. And A's are all different but there is a boatload of stuff we codies and alkies share and there is a lot of wisdom and truth on this website, in alanon and a wealth of other resources.

So... let us love and pray for one another. No one's path in alcoholism or codependency is easy but we are ALL still responsible for our choices and how we treat one another.

By the way... I am encouraging my XA by text in a very healthy way... I will NEVER, NEVER get into a relationship with an A again and I am frickin' crazy about this guy. I love him awful. I hope I dance at his wedding...to someone else!

Thats how much I HATE the roller coaster now... never, never again.

NYCDoglvr

There comes a point where it's much more relevant for me to look at my choices, not the other person. I found it's easy to point the finger and look down on someone, much harder examining my own values, choices, words and actions.

fluffyflea

I,m at the point now when there is turmoil in my life with another I need to just focus on what I need to change in me. Must be a lesson in there somewhere.

Katiekate

And this is all so wonderful, we also need to mindful of the fact that many here are new to their own recovery, they are learning. Their compassion has run dry, they are learning to have compassion for themselves again, their journey needs to be treated with respect and comfort. They have over extended their compassion for the disease temporarily.

As to lumping addicts, alcoholics abusers into one category, the broader recovery community has made us all aware that the addcited brain across the board is described with a large pool of similar characteristics, it is impossible , in this venue to give support on a case by case basis. Denial is the sickness that we are sussing out, for both the addcit and the codependent, so to that end, we view both addicts and codependents as groups rather than individuals, individual work is impossible in the forum situation.

I personally lost my interest in the suffering of my alcoholic, and it was temporary, at some point I had to look at how I was allowing him to gut me daily, weekly, I had to let go of his suffering and turn my attention to mine. In those early days, my feelings toward him were of disgust and disbelief. Abuse brought me there, abuse dealty by him. Sorry if I lost my compassion, it was absolutely needed at the time.

rsk

you couldn't have described my life with my exabf in a better way.
Thank you.

lillamy

I don't see a contradiction between being furious at the addict's wreaking havoc on my life and realizing that I have at times behaved badly as well.

I'm keeping my side of the street clean. Doesn't mean I can't see the garbage piling up on the other side of the street. Codie recovery, for me, means I no longer feel responsible for cleaning it up.

JeffKan1

Newbie here, help me... "ACOA"?

fluffyflea

Adult Children of Alcoholcs

choublak

I get annoyed with questions like "do all alcoholics/addicts do this or that?" not because I pity the alcoholic (on the contrary, I see it as, you have a problem, okay, deal with it by learning to live a sober life, or you deserve what you get) but because those types of questions in general are just stupid and ignorant IMHO. I personally see questions about addicts and alcoholics and what they all do in the same category as questions like, Do all French people wear onions around their neck? Do all Australians wear cork screws on their hats? Do all English people drink tea? Et cetera.

I have compassion for myself and, as I have been asked dumb stereotypical questions my whole life, just don't like those types of questions, no matter who they are asking about. But that is my personal opinion.

Aside from which, who cares if it's common among alcoholics/addicts or not? Let's say, and I'm making up this scenario as I type, you're a mother holding your small child, and your AH comes home and throws acid at you. When you're holding you're child. Now. What does it matter if "all alcoholics" do that or not? How does coming on here, and asking that question, help you, your child, and the situation you're in? What does it do for you? I don't get that, but if it helps you, post away. Just my 2 centavos.

fluffyflea

Probably it just helps people not feel alone in their struggles Choublak.

Learn2Live

You got it!