What to expect
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
What to expect
I have been posting on here - so some of you might already know my story. My years sober AH is relapsing.
Tonight most definitely. I stopped looking for bottles - can't do that.
So its secret drinking even though I made it clear that if he wanted to drink I would not/could not stop him so feel free to drink right in front of me.
I was not with him when he was active - I came 7 years later in sobriety.
I have never seen him drunk, I have now seen him buzzed. Its not bad, not bad at all. In fact its quite pleasant. He is hysterically funny, in a great mood - silly, a little giddy.
I have been to one al-anon meeting. I will go back tomorrow. I keep waiting for someone to tell me what's going to happen. We haven't been through this before together. In fact I have never closely known an alcoholic. I refuse to enable it - tis why I don't look for his booze. Its why I say nothing. I have no desire to ruin my night by having him argue with me in denial of what I cannot prove.
How does this disease/relapse progress? I am sure all have different stories but certainly there has to be some commonality.
I read in the classic section a great thread of Alcoholism written as a play. It taught me so much about this disease. I know right now everyday from what I do forward that I cannot stop him, but how I choose to handle it may encourage MAY...
Here is what I keep thinking about. I catch him, or he gets tired of the closet or bold and decides to just drink openly. I can say get out. I won't not now. Not there yet, hard to be - I imagine saying it or making ultimatums and him saying "what are you so upset about? I am not having a problem, I am not drunk, I am not rude, I am not abusive, I am not falling down. Nothing about me drinking is causing you any issue".....which is true today. We don't have a past that I can use .
And yes he has health issues and that is usable - but he isn't getting sick NOT YET but it will come eventually.
Anyone want to share their story of relapse with me or any advise I would greatly appreciate it.
Tonight most definitely. I stopped looking for bottles - can't do that.
So its secret drinking even though I made it clear that if he wanted to drink I would not/could not stop him so feel free to drink right in front of me.
I was not with him when he was active - I came 7 years later in sobriety.
I have never seen him drunk, I have now seen him buzzed. Its not bad, not bad at all. In fact its quite pleasant. He is hysterically funny, in a great mood - silly, a little giddy.
I have been to one al-anon meeting. I will go back tomorrow. I keep waiting for someone to tell me what's going to happen. We haven't been through this before together. In fact I have never closely known an alcoholic. I refuse to enable it - tis why I don't look for his booze. Its why I say nothing. I have no desire to ruin my night by having him argue with me in denial of what I cannot prove.
How does this disease/relapse progress? I am sure all have different stories but certainly there has to be some commonality.
I read in the classic section a great thread of Alcoholism written as a play. It taught me so much about this disease. I know right now everyday from what I do forward that I cannot stop him, but how I choose to handle it may encourage MAY...
Here is what I keep thinking about. I catch him, or he gets tired of the closet or bold and decides to just drink openly. I can say get out. I won't not now. Not there yet, hard to be - I imagine saying it or making ultimatums and him saying "what are you so upset about? I am not having a problem, I am not drunk, I am not rude, I am not abusive, I am not falling down. Nothing about me drinking is causing you any issue".....which is true today. We don't have a past that I can use .
And yes he has health issues and that is usable - but he isn't getting sick NOT YET but it will come eventually.
Anyone want to share their story of relapse with me or any advise I would greatly appreciate it.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cleveland Ohio
Posts: 133
Redatalnta:
Everyday your AH has been sober his disease has been doing push-ups out in the driveway. You will see very demonstrable evidence of it shortly.And it won't be funny anymore. If he's a real alcoholic and he wakes up that monster he will be in a life and death battle. The reason alcoholism is a disease is that it has the 3 components that all diseases must have.
1. A Symptomology (signs & symptoms,) booze breath, falling down drunk, missing work, DUI'S, etc
2. It's progressive, (it gets worse over time), ( on him AND you)
3. Left untreated it's fatal.
I STRONGLY suggest you stay with al-anon, although in some places they are much more aptly know as "The Ladies of Perpetual Revenge" Don't let that happen to you. Don't get bitter as time progresses. That's easy to let happen. You are undoubtedly saying to yourself " No way"..." I can't see that happening"
Iv'e been sober longer than alot of people posting here have been alive, and I have sponsored hundreds of drunks. This is serious ****. ....Good Luck & God Bless
Everyday your AH has been sober his disease has been doing push-ups out in the driveway. You will see very demonstrable evidence of it shortly.And it won't be funny anymore. If he's a real alcoholic and he wakes up that monster he will be in a life and death battle. The reason alcoholism is a disease is that it has the 3 components that all diseases must have.
1. A Symptomology (signs & symptoms,) booze breath, falling down drunk, missing work, DUI'S, etc
2. It's progressive, (it gets worse over time), ( on him AND you)
3. Left untreated it's fatal.
I STRONGLY suggest you stay with al-anon, although in some places they are much more aptly know as "The Ladies of Perpetual Revenge" Don't let that happen to you. Don't get bitter as time progresses. That's easy to let happen. You are undoubtedly saying to yourself " No way"..." I can't see that happening"
Iv'e been sober longer than alot of people posting here have been alive, and I have sponsored hundreds of drunks. This is serious ****. ....Good Luck & God Bless
RIP Sweet Suki
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: In my sanctuary, my home
Posts: 39,898
I can't say it any better than cfm, which spells it out pretty darned good. If a person is alcoholic, even with years of abstinence, once they pick up again, it's like they never stopped. Of course, this won't happen in a week or two, but it will happen, and before too long.
Yes, please continue with al-anon. You will need the face-to-face support they can give you. We're always here, too. The main thing is to take care of yourself. If he keeps drinking, you are in for a long hard ride.
Yes, please continue with al-anon. You will need the face-to-face support they can give you. We're always here, too. The main thing is to take care of yourself. If he keeps drinking, you are in for a long hard ride.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
I cannot tell you how his disease will progress, I do not think any of us here can. But I can safely say the "funny, good mood, giddy" is just a phase. Soon the argumentative, manipulating, lying, loud, out of control alkie will probably make his appearance.
Please continue to educate yourself, you are going to need all the survival tools handy and in place. Sure hope he can find his way back to recovery.
Please continue to educate yourself, you are going to need all the survival tools handy and in place. Sure hope he can find his way back to recovery.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
He is a real alcoholic - he has chronic pancreatitis and diabetes as a gold medal. His bottom is death.
Will stick with al - anon - had not heard that terminology before but thank you I can see from reading the stories on here how that could happen.
I struggle because I don't know if what I am doing is right. Clearly we aren't full blown yet. Sometimes I find myself about to say something. Not ugly, not an argument. The disease isn't reasonable. He still is.
Sometimes I wonder if I should tell him I can smell it - which I can tonight - go find the bottle, and say get the hell out. NOW!! Would it be enough I don't know.
3 months or 3 weeks from now if I come home to a disaster - or worse a coma - him in ICU on a respirator, or dead - should I have said something - should I have tried. Its the argument I have in my head daily.
Will stick with al - anon - had not heard that terminology before but thank you I can see from reading the stories on here how that could happen.
I struggle because I don't know if what I am doing is right. Clearly we aren't full blown yet. Sometimes I find myself about to say something. Not ugly, not an argument. The disease isn't reasonable. He still is.
Sometimes I wonder if I should tell him I can smell it - which I can tonight - go find the bottle, and say get the hell out. NOW!! Would it be enough I don't know.
3 months or 3 weeks from now if I come home to a disaster - or worse a coma - him in ICU on a respirator, or dead - should I have said something - should I have tried. Its the argument I have in my head daily.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,163
You have the right to say whatever you want, can't say it will change anything. And you are correct, what if he ends up in a coma and now YOU are left caring for him. .
You have the right to choose not to take a front row seat and witness his disease progress.
You have to do what is best for you friend. Sending you all my support, will say a prayer for you tonite. God Bless.
You have the right to choose not to take a front row seat and witness his disease progress.
You have to do what is best for you friend. Sending you all my support, will say a prayer for you tonite. God Bless.
Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Cleveland Ohio
Posts: 133
Redatlanta:
Your words:
"I struggle because I don't know if what I am doing is right."
That's the whole point. Their really are no right answers. Just make sure that YOU can live with the logical outcome of your decisions.
..............Hmmmmmm, Do I give him the 100.00 he wants knowing he'll get drunk, or do I not give it to him knowing he'll steal it.....................
Do you see what I mean???.....................The word "ENABLE" takes a bad rap. On balance it's saved just as many lives as it's hurt. Here's the reason why. Someone show me the line that separates enabling from a wife's love. Where do we cross the line?????..........There is no line. When the relationship becomes toxic for you, it's time to bail.
Your words:
"I struggle because I don't know if what I am doing is right."
That's the whole point. Their really are no right answers. Just make sure that YOU can live with the logical outcome of your decisions.
..............Hmmmmmm, Do I give him the 100.00 he wants knowing he'll get drunk, or do I not give it to him knowing he'll steal it.....................
Do you see what I mean???.....................The word "ENABLE" takes a bad rap. On balance it's saved just as many lives as it's hurt. Here's the reason why. Someone show me the line that separates enabling from a wife's love. Where do we cross the line?????..........There is no line. When the relationship becomes toxic for you, it's time to bail.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 4,719
Originally Posted by redatlanta 
3 months or 3 weeks from now if I come home to a disaster - or worse a coma - him in ICU on a respirator, or dead - should I have said something - should I have tried. Its the argument I have in my head daily.
Hon, my best friend is in the hospital dying right now of liver failure. Her latest relapse may very well kill her. What could I have done? Or her family? Her son? I can guarantee you they have tried everything within their power to find this young woman some help. Obviously it has been unsuccessful.
What can any of us really do to force another into a healthier lifestyle?
The argument you are having is moot. There is nothing you can do to save someone who does not want to be saved.
Oh wait - there is one thing - prayer. Pray for him. Pray for yourself that you don't have to sit in the hospital talking about hospice and comfort care. And know that if that happens to you, it is not because you didn't "do" something sooner.
It's his choice.
Iceberg Ahead!
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Out at Sea
Posts: 1,177
Further to cfm's post.
This comprehensive definition of Alcoholism was published by the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1992. This definition was prepared by the Joint Committee to Study the Definition and Criteria for the Diagnosis of Alcoholism of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine.
Approved by the Boards of Directors of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc. (February 3, 1990) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (February 25, 1990).
Definition of Alcoholism -- published by the Journal of the American Medical Association
"Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial ."
Primary refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity in addition to and separate from other pathophysiologic states which may be associated with it.
Primary suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state.
Disease means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of the abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specified common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm, and which places them at a disadvantage.
Often progressive and fatal means that the disease persists over time and that physical, emotional, and social changes are often cumulative and may progress as drinking continues. Alcoholism causes premature death through overdose, organic complications involving the brain, liver, heart and many other organs, and by contributing to suicide, homicide, motor vehicle crashes, and other traumatic events.
Impaired control means the inability to limit alcohol use or to consistently limit on any drinking occasion the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
Preoccupation in association with alcohol use indicates excessive, focused attention given to the drug alcohol, its effects, and/or its use. The relative value thus assigned to alcohol by the individual often leads to a diversion of energies away from important life concerns.
Adverse consequences are alcohol-related problems or impairments in such areas as: physical health (e.g., alcohol withdrawal syndromes, liver disease, gastritis, anemia, neurological disorders); psychological functioning (e.g., impairments in cognition, changes in mood and behavior); interpersonal functioning (e.g., marital problems and child abuse, impaired social relationships); occupational functioning (e.g., scholastic or job problems); and legal, financial, or spiritual problems.
Denial is used here not only in the psychoanalytic sense of a single psychological defense mechanism disavowing the significance of events, but more broadly to include a range of psychological maneuvers designed to reduce awareness of the fact that alcohol use is the cause of an individual's problems rather than a solution to those problems. Denial becomes an integral part of the disease and a major obstacle to recovery.
This comprehensive definition of Alcoholism was published by the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1992. This definition was prepared by the Joint Committee to Study the Definition and Criteria for the Diagnosis of Alcoholism of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence and the American Society of Addiction Medicine.
Approved by the Boards of Directors of the National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence, Inc. (February 3, 1990) and the American Society of Addiction Medicine (February 25, 1990).
Definition of Alcoholism -- published by the Journal of the American Medical Association
"Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, most notably denial ."
Primary refers to the nature of alcoholism as a disease entity in addition to and separate from other pathophysiologic states which may be associated with it.
Primary suggests that alcoholism, as an addiction, is not a symptom of an underlying disease state.
Disease means an involuntary disability. It represents the sum of the abnormal phenomena displayed by a group of individuals. These phenomena are associated with a specified common set of characteristics by which these individuals differ from the norm, and which places them at a disadvantage.
Often progressive and fatal means that the disease persists over time and that physical, emotional, and social changes are often cumulative and may progress as drinking continues. Alcoholism causes premature death through overdose, organic complications involving the brain, liver, heart and many other organs, and by contributing to suicide, homicide, motor vehicle crashes, and other traumatic events.
Impaired control means the inability to limit alcohol use or to consistently limit on any drinking occasion the duration of the episode, the quantity consumed, and/or the behavioral consequences of drinking.
Preoccupation in association with alcohol use indicates excessive, focused attention given to the drug alcohol, its effects, and/or its use. The relative value thus assigned to alcohol by the individual often leads to a diversion of energies away from important life concerns.
Adverse consequences are alcohol-related problems or impairments in such areas as: physical health (e.g., alcohol withdrawal syndromes, liver disease, gastritis, anemia, neurological disorders); psychological functioning (e.g., impairments in cognition, changes in mood and behavior); interpersonal functioning (e.g., marital problems and child abuse, impaired social relationships); occupational functioning (e.g., scholastic or job problems); and legal, financial, or spiritual problems.
Denial is used here not only in the psychoanalytic sense of a single psychological defense mechanism disavowing the significance of events, but more broadly to include a range of psychological maneuvers designed to reduce awareness of the fact that alcohol use is the cause of an individual's problems rather than a solution to those problems. Denial becomes an integral part of the disease and a major obstacle to recovery.
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
Posts: 3,581
Thank you all so much! I feel better when I read your posts you are so supportive.
He told me when we first got together what it would be like if he was drinking. 'If I am drinking, I am lying. If I am drinking, I am cheating, If I am drinking you wouldn't like me. I am glad you didn't know me then".
Just devastating. I hate this disease.
He told me when we first got together what it would be like if he was drinking. 'If I am drinking, I am lying. If I am drinking, I am cheating, If I am drinking you wouldn't like me. I am glad you didn't know me then".
Just devastating. I hate this disease.
Community Greeter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 16,246
Dear redatlanta, you have been given good information from the other posters--in my opinion. I can't really add to what they have said.
I will say that you don't have to have "proof" of his drinking if you already know that he is. With my son, I said: You are drinking---when he protested---I said, "that is not a question---it is a STATEMENT, I know what I know" I then left the room--refusing to discuss it with him further.
Of course, I had to follow up on my boundry and kick him out.
I know how difficult this is for you.
dandylion
I will say that you don't have to have "proof" of his drinking if you already know that he is. With my son, I said: You are drinking---when he protested---I said, "that is not a question---it is a STATEMENT, I know what I know" I then left the room--refusing to discuss it with him further.
Of course, I had to follow up on my boundry and kick him out.
I know how difficult this is for you.
dandylion
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 696
So, you go to Alanon...That's good
Just curious: Do the 2 of you even talk about this as a married couple?
or
Is it like none of it is even happening in your house?
I know for me. I wish I would of said more, did more, set more boundaries
and got honest with myself more, in the beginning.....
Damn, eggshells really hurt the bottom of my feet....
Just curious: Do the 2 of you even talk about this as a married couple?
or
Is it like none of it is even happening in your house?
I know for me. I wish I would of said more, did more, set more boundaries
and got honest with myself more, in the beginning.....
Damn, eggshells really hurt the bottom of my feet....
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 29
Please save yourself. The posts you are reading are spot on. Let me tell you what I should have done...maybe my life would be different.
We started dating in May 2007. He was drinking a little, but I had no idea he was an alcoholic. By January 2008, his mom who was just widdowed came to stay and she told me she had him committed to a rehab facility in CO about 10 years ago. However, mother and son would have a glass of wine every night. I should have run. Never had to deal with alcoholism...I don't drink. Fast forward to 2011. He is barely keeping his executive position, been in 2 rehabs and checked himself out, our relationship is nearly finished. By July 2012 he is found dead in the house while I was out of town visiting my parents. Dead at 55.
Since his death, I have found his numerous online dating profiles on porn sites, emails from women, and that someone in the office was getting ready to file a sexual harassment complaint against him. He was a mess.
This beast alcoholism shows no mercy. His descent was quick and fatal. This is not that unusual. You will never know if you did the right thing. THEY are making choices. We have to too. What do YOU want? How much peace do YOU want in your home? How badly do YOU want calm in your soul?
He was so funny, smart, and kind. But he was sick and took hostages at the end.
We started dating in May 2007. He was drinking a little, but I had no idea he was an alcoholic. By January 2008, his mom who was just widdowed came to stay and she told me she had him committed to a rehab facility in CO about 10 years ago. However, mother and son would have a glass of wine every night. I should have run. Never had to deal with alcoholism...I don't drink. Fast forward to 2011. He is barely keeping his executive position, been in 2 rehabs and checked himself out, our relationship is nearly finished. By July 2012 he is found dead in the house while I was out of town visiting my parents. Dead at 55.
Since his death, I have found his numerous online dating profiles on porn sites, emails from women, and that someone in the office was getting ready to file a sexual harassment complaint against him. He was a mess.
This beast alcoholism shows no mercy. His descent was quick and fatal. This is not that unusual. You will never know if you did the right thing. THEY are making choices. We have to too. What do YOU want? How much peace do YOU want in your home? How badly do YOU want calm in your soul?
He was so funny, smart, and kind. But he was sick and took hostages at the end.
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Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 137
Originally Posted by redatlanta
'If I am drinking, I am lying. If I am drinking, I am cheating, If I am drinking you wouldn't like me. I am glad you didn't know me then".
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Chicago
Posts: 5,450
Oh man -- I was about five lines into the original post before I realized how old this thread is. My heart just about stopped for RedAtlanta.
Maya, you are spot on. Any decision we make to take care of ourSELVES, no matter how hard, is always a good decision.
Maya, you are spot on. Any decision we make to take care of ourSELVES, no matter how hard, is always a good decision.
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