mdkathy62

Everyone's responses are filling me with a lot of different and positive emotions. Thank you Titanic for reminding me to count my blessings. Sometimes, it's hard to do that because I'm always stressing out. I don't just think about what's going to happen today, but ten days from now. I try to anticipate what may potentially happen to ensure that I am ready, but I am learning, with his help, that I have to take it day by day.

This weekend was quite powerful for us. I have a credit card that my parents have long asked me to use when I pump gas. It helps them get mileage and points and such. Otherwise, I pay everything on my own. My dad called me noticing that I had been spending more and more on gas and immediately, a rush of emotions came over me. I realized that all this time, I have indeed been enabling my boyfriend. I helped him out from time to time when he needed gas money. Then somehow, it became every gas tank. How did that happen? It hit me really hard because I have been in denial all this time. I kept telling myself to set boundaries and stick to them and the boundaries would be set and overtime, the boundaries would disappear. It hit me hard when I realized I was taking money that my parents were telling me to use and giving it away for no reason at all. Even my dad said, I know he drives you from time to time, but don't be a sucker paying for all of his gas.

That really rocked my world this weekend. I wholeheartedly admit that I am completely powerless and my life is unmanageable. I started listing out the flaws I have within me and pondering why I enable my boyfriend. A lot of it has to do with not wanting him to be upset, or feeling like he can't depend on me. So I keep my opinions quiet, I don't say what I feel, I leave the house when I get upset because I can't say what I really feel else it will hurt his feelings and he'll go into a funk, etc. We have an agreement if I cook dinner, he has to wash dishes, but I find myself helping him wash the dishes because I get worried he'll get grumpy if he has to wash too many dishes. Isn't that crazy nonsense??!!!

I became someone who compromised her values to enable and support someone else. Other flaws I noticed I have includes: seeking praise and reassurance. If I help people a lot, they will love me more. I sat down with my boyfriend and we talked about this for a long time. We both admitted fault with what we had brought to this relationship and how far we let things go. We opened up about things we fear and I feel like we made a giant leap. I'm hoping things continue this way. I bought some Lakers tickets to take him in December for Christmas and today I told him that I want to take my dad and I will get him another Christmas present. Despite him seeming a bit sad, I was adamant that it's time I do something nice for someone else besides him all the time.

fluffyflea

Took the words right out of my mouth Titanic.

Titanic

You're welcome mdkathy!

That's great that you had a long needed heart-to-heart. Give things time mdkathy. His actions over time not his words. Your actions over time not just your thoughts.

All the best.

mdkathy62

It always seems to happen that as soon as things start getting good, they get bad again. My parents called again and September's credit card bill came home and there had been over $500 charge at the community college where he currently attends. My stomach sank when my mom called me. In one week, my dad, mom, and brother have all talked to me about how I am naive, a sucker, I want to help him out, and I think everyone thinks like me and act like me. There were other charges for 7-11 where I know he goes to get cigarettes.

I feel so ashamed. My mom has not had a job in almost ten years. She has not been able to given her lack of education. Both my parents came to the US in 1982 as refugees and my dad is currently the only one working, and a maintenance man at that. My boyfriend's parents are both doctors and I told him to only use their credit card for gas. That is the reason why my parents gave it to me. But he abused it....

When I confronted him again about this $500 charge, he denied it, but he finally admitted to the other small charges whereas last week he claimed he only used it on gas. I was furious. I know him very well and whenever I confront him, he manages to turn it around on me, that I need to trust him etc, but I was right. He lied. And now he denies the $500 charge. I can't imagine how someone stole the credit card information and coincidentally uses it at his college. (I still have the card in my possession). I just don't know what to say...

I feel so humiliated that he stole from my parents. My dad didn't even want me dating him because he was not supportive of the interracial relationship idea. Now, I can't even face my parents. How do I go back there and say, no no, he's a good guy?? How???

I just don't know what to do...he showed me all his receipts from buying books at the college, the invoices for tuition and I didn't see the amount that was charged on there, but how else can we explain the coincidence?? How many people steal credit card information and use it for school? I can't even believe him because he lied last week about the small charges.

Last night we talked for a long time. Whenever it gets to this point, I get so frustrated with his answers, that he's trying, that he doesn't know why he does what he does, or he doesn't remember charging those things. It's like, you really think constantly saying "you're trying" is going to make things better? I don't have a good relationship with my family, matter of fact, it's pretty bad, and now it will be worse. Before, at least he was only hurting me, but now to see him hurting my parents who don't make a lot of money, it breaks my heart.

I told him he needs to go to my dad and apologize for the small charges. He agreed. I told him that if he didn't in fact make that big $500 charge, he needs to show my dad the proof. I asked him how he would feel someday when he has a daughter that she is with someone who steals from her? It hurt so much to hear both my parents tell me that a man should take care of you and if he can't right now, at least be honest about it. It hurt so much to hear that because they were right. It would mean nothing to them if I told them, this is his first lie in months, he's getting better. It would mean nothing.

Am I just lying to myself? I feel like such an idiot to be saying, ohh he hasn't lied in months. Really? I'm just so confused right now...

Titanic

Get to Al-Anon meetings. You need to take care of You, and not expect a man to - let alone an alcoholic one. He's lied to you and used the card for school stuff (so he could use his other money on whatever he wanted), plain and simple. Your parents know it. You know it inside (your feelings are just trying to hide it). He knows it.

Think about a boundary. I will not be with some boyfriend who actively lies, uses people, steals and drinks - and who DOES nothing about it.

mdkathy62

You're right. I was trying to convince myself that he wasn't being this way, that he was recovering, but I wasn't doing him or myself any favors by trying to lie to myself that he was getting better. We sat down with the credit card bill and saw that on a day back in September when he skipped AA, he was at the bar he normally goes to. He charged $150. I'm so ashamed. Another lie.

I spoke to his sponsor yesterday for an hour and his sponsor reminded me that an alcoholic is never going to recover if he's not first honest with himself. The fact that he's still denying the big charges means that he's not ready to recover. After the talk, I told him that I was going to tell his mom all remaining secrets that I'm keeping for him, about the times he came home stumbling and smelled like alcohol but insisted he didn't drink. I told him that from here on out, he and I should keep our distance. We live together so last night I was in the room and he was in the living room. We didn't speak at all. He slept on the couch. I told him that when the lease is over, if he still isn't honest with himself and taking this program seriously, then we will part ways.

I looked him in the eye and said "You and I both know who made those big charges" and he didn't say anything, didn't even deny it like he was. He had tears in his eyes, which tells me that he in fact did charge them. Just by looking at the evidence, it looks like he fell off the wagon and is too ashamed to admit it and instead, has lied about it. Wasted the money his mom gave him for books and then had to steal from my parents.

It's so unfortunate, that 24 hours after seeing the bill, the evidence right there, he is still not coming forward with the truth, but it's not my business anymore. I am all for supporting him through the process, but clearly he's not ready to recovery, which means I am wasting my time. It's so unfortunate.

I feel like a fool for falling for all these stories, but I was obviously trying to lie to myself as well. Now, it's time to work on me. I appreciate all the feedback from everyone here. I'll continue this process for me.

Tuffgirl

Denial serves many purposes. But only when we begin to see through the denial does real change have a chance to happen.

You say its unfortunate that he is still lying. I'd say it is a normal and usual habit in this guy's life, and for every lie you caught, there are probably 10 more made.

MDKathy, I know in your original post you were hopeful of his recovery. It's good to keep that hope, but don't let it cloud your reality.

Go to the newcomers forum and the alcoholism forum and read how often alcoholics relapse and how much of a struggle it really is to kick this habit. I think you may still underestimate it all.

mdkathy62

Thank you Tuffgirl, you make a really good point. That's what I'm struggling with after all the initial anger, frustration, and feelings of betrayal. If I was committed to sticking with him through this difficult process, when is too much too much? I know relapses were bound to happen, but what's my limit for how far he can go and how many people he can hurt? One of his friends admitted to me that he did in fact drink in August and my bf told him that he had told me the truth so the friend didn't tell me. Now it's out there...

But despite confronting him with the truth once again, my bf said he didn't. Denial is quite strong...it's frightening how far he will go to lie even to himself. There are many more lies that I have probably not found out yet and that scares me. He's hurt my family...How do you know when someone simply cannot be helped? How do you know when to give up? Is he able to recover? Am I being too hopeful?

Learn2Live

WOW MDKATHY! (I've gone back to look at your prior posts)

This post is HUGE!! This is excellent work you have been doing! Keep up the good work!

Learn2Live

MDKathy, a man who lies to you and steals from your parents is NOT a good choice.
"I'm trying," and "I'm sorry," are just excuses. Alcoholics and addicts are notorious for this. My XABF would cheat on me and continue to cheat on me and do rotten things, and he just kept saying, "I'm sorry." I got so sick of hearing "I'm sorry," that I honestly do not accept it from people I am in relationship with anymore. They know what they are doing when they do it. They don't care how we will feel when we find out. They hide the truth from us so that they can continue to do what they want to do, not to save us from our feelings about it. Watch how you attribute certain behaviors of his to specific feelings. Don't automatically assume that the feelings YOU would have, or the feelings a "normal" person would have, are actually the feelings HE is having. Watch those crocodile tears. When a person is sincerely hurt by his own behavior, he will seek out help on his own. And he will change his behavior. If he doesn't, that is a warning sign.

SadHeart

He did not create this on his own. You were equal partner in creating your current unhappiness. It's the hardest lesson to learn as a codependent or a partner of an alcoholic.

The harsh fact is, most people WOULD walk away when the alcoholic starts exhibiting bad behavior; most people WOULD walk away when the relationship turns unhappy. The question unhappy partners MUST ask themselves is, why don't I? What makes me different from most people.

It's hard to face our assumption that staying committed is noble. It's not noble. Leaving is not 'giving up' or a sign of our own defect of character or our lack of love. I want to say that again: Leaving is not a sign of our lack of love.

It's hard to face the reality that most of time leaving people who make us unhappy is HEALTHY. It's normal. And why don't we leave?

We don't leave because we think it's noble to stay, because we are afraid to be alone, because we think it says something negative about our character and our ability to love, because, because, because (there are dozens of reasons). We almost never stay because it's the healthiest thing to do. It is not healthy to stay with someone who makes us unhappy.

There's nothing wrong with leaving and then when and if he gets his head, life and act together, getting back together. 'True' love will survive that. In the meantime, you are taking care of yourself with dignity and in safety.

That you choose to stay in a relationship that makes you unhappy (and yes, I know this unhappiness is recent--but still you are unhappy) is demonstrable proof that this situation is not only of his creation. It's of yours too, by the choices you are making.

The fourth step is NOT the culprit. It's not a roadblock. You are looking to put blame where none exists, so you don't have to put the blame on the people really responsible for the relationship: you and your boyfriend.


There are lots of people out there for you, but the reassurance may not come in the form you want.

The reassurance may be the testimony of lots of people that they walked away and are HAPPIER for it. The reassurance might be "I wish I'd walked away when I was in your position, just a boyfriend, lives not irretrievably bound, no children, no lost years, no financial devastation.

The reassurance might be the one you keep trying to forbid people to tell you: that you are strong enough to walk away and will be happier for walking away and you will never regret it once you get past the first hurdle and once you learn a bit more about yourself.

You are crying out: tell me what I want to hear so I can be comforted; but many people may find they cannot in good conscience tell you what you want to hear, because they know it's mostly falsehood.

The reassurance you want, that he will get better and you will go on to the life of your dreams, is not something that many people can reassure you with. The stats and most experience is strongly against that. It does happen. It's unusual. There will be people here who had it happen to them; they went through more hell than you've gone through yet before it happened, and some don't think it's worth it, and some do. But most people here, the majority will never have a happy, healthy relationship with someone they love struggling with addiction. Exceptions are sometimes long term marriages where the addiction takes hold after years and years of a good marriage or when adult children finally get straightened out, if they do.

You are like someone who wants reassurance that they will win the lottery tonight. It could happen, but probably won't. I know someone well who supervised a man who won $53 million in the lottery. Chances are however, it will never happen to me.

It would be irresponsible for anyone to reassure me that I have a good chance of winning tonight's lottery. But I can still have a comfortable financial life without winning the lottery. That's reassuring too--if I listen.

The reassurance I have for you: all the qualities you love about your boyfriend can be found in a man who does not struggle with addiction. Commit to that man and have what you are dreaming of now, without the misery. You can be happy without him.

choublak

Why are you still even interested in someone who stole from YOUR parents? Stealing from family members is really low and disrespectful IMO, and it's not something recovering alcoholics "just do".

Graceland

I'm not sure how to post just a piece of a message in a reply, but SadHeart's statement below spoke to me:

The reassurance might be "I wish I'd walked away when I was in your position, just a boyfriend, lives not irretrievably bound, no children, no lost years, no financial devastation.

I'm here to offer exactly that reassurance. When I was dating my AH, he used to keep bottles of liquor in the freezer. We'd drink almost every night; him much more than myself. In my 20's, I thought that it was fun. I knew that he could get a little mean, but I also thought that I loved him. One night, he got really angry at me. I don't remember what he said, just the devastating feeling afterwards. I broke up with him.

He wrote me a note, promising that he would never do it again.

When we were engaged, he would get into yelling matches with my dad, who is also an alcoholic. Again, I would forgive. I would just tell myself that "it's just the way he is" and that "the good outweighed the bad." It happened again and again. My relationship with my folks is in tatters.

We had twin six year old boys, eventually. Two weeks ago, a neighbor called me and told me that he was drunk with the children. I was on a business trip and flew home immediately. Child Protective Services got involved. He started going to AA and said he was going to turn his life around. I got a lawyer, but I just can't pull the trigger.

I should have gone to Al-Anon YEARS ago.

Do I wish that I walked away at the beginning? Do I wish that someone had told me to do so. Yes. Am I trying to walk away now. Yes, with everything that I have in me but even then I fear that it might not be enough.

Alcoholism is a progressive disease. It won't be all bad, but it won't be the trusting partnership that you deserve. And eventually, when there is no trust, there is no love.

choublak

I posted what I did because I noticed the part where you're worried about how to convince your father that this guy is a good guy, AFTER he has already stolen from your parents. Do you not see something wrong with that picture?

Xtapodi

i am debating just that with my girlfriend of 2 years. she relapsed 2 days ago, (3 years of sobriety gone). i am at a loss and for now i jave kicked her out my place. i still cant decide whether to remain in a relationship with her or not....

Learn2Live

I have found that the best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
Is three years of sobriety worth the unpredictability, uncertainty, and hurt that relapse brings? I personally NEED a certain level of stability and predictability in my life. Chaos is not welcome here.

Get to know yourself and your needs. Stand up for yourself. Stand up for what YOU need. There are lots of people out there who are not alcoholic.

keepingmyjoy1

It's hard to face our assumption that staying committed is noble. It's not noble. Leaving is not 'giving up' or a sign of our own defect of character or our lack of love. I want to say that again: Leaving is not a sign of our lack of love.

It's hard to face the reality that most of time leaving people who make us unhappy is HEALTHY. It's normal.

Wow SadHeart. Thanks for posting this. I left a little more than a month ago...I thought I was doing the "noble" thing...and I do love my AH. But, love and need "healthy" more for both me and my son.

Hang in there mdkathy...keep working toward seeing through the fog. All the wonderful people here at SR have helped me so much. You are in a good place.

DoubleBarrel

I've been a drunk for over 20 years and used just about every drug, and never once stole to support a habit. There's addiction, and there's being a straight criminal, and I have never accepted that one excuses the other.