CeciliaV

Rough month. So it's about three weeks since my last thread, and the cycle continues. After our anniversary fiasco, he seemed so intent on getting better. AH made an appointment with a psychiatrist (1st available spot...almost two weeks from now) and he thinks that the doc will medicate him and all will be better. He made it about 15-17 days sober (or so he says) before he started drinking again. It came to a head last weekend, when it was obvious that he was drinking and when I got the news that one of my cousins died. It was obviously a tough weekend for me, and I felt so angered that he couldn't pull himself out of his stupor and self-involvement. He laid drunk & mumbling nonsense on the couch while I spoke with family and tried to be supportive to my mom & dad (who were close to my cousin) and to my cousin's surviving twin brother (oy, that poor poor man). Although he had cancer, his passing was sudden - he had surgery to remove a portion of his lung, and although he pulled through surgery well, he died the next day quite suddenly (most likely a clot that traveled).

This past week, I tried to focus less on AH and more on me. He tried to push me to "talk" and "work on us" and I resisted. I am not ready to do any of that at this point. It was all I could do to get through the past week & talk to my family about this tragedy and to survive a tough month at work as well...I had nothing left! He gets frustrated with me when I press back at him and tell him that it's selfish for him to try to pressure me into talking about "heavy stuff" when I don't want to and when I'm not emotionally equipped to do so. I tried to explain to him that I'm so raw that I've had to numb myself to just get by. It's been a couple rounds this last week of him pressuring me, me getting upset, and then him apologizing...then rinse, repeat.

I had suspected that he was drinking, and I know now that my suspicions are always right. I'm not stupid! He was intent on going to buy cigarettes last night when we had plenty, because he said he wanted to not have to run out for errands today; my retort that I would buy them today fell on deaf ears. He was insistent on going out this afternoon to the supermarket and didn't want to go when I suggested that we go to the corner market together. Hrm. And then he just became THAT person that I hate to deal with. The one that takes everything hyper-personally and is wounded by just about anything that I dare to say. A simple exchange of a few words turned into a HUGE fight. He had passed out on the couch (ding ding ding, bells going off here!) while I was talking with my parents on the phone. When I was done talking, he said, "Oh, you're looking at me with that all-knowing look; is there anything I should know?" To which I retorted, "Is there anything *I* should know?" Oy, how dare I?! He went off - "Nice, oh, nice...just hit me below the belt!" etc., etc. I called him out on his ridiculousness, and I should have just walked away and shut my mouth. It became this huge, stupid fight over NOTHING that I said and all about what he knew and what I knew - that there WAS something I should know (and already did know) - that he'd been sneaking drinking.

It became quite obvious that there was no good that would come out of any of that exchange, so I just went about my way & continued to try to make soup as I had planned. (Off topic, but OMG, that was an awesome minestrone!) He was on the phone with his sister & BIL for quite some time during this. As I was trying to get the soup put away, he basically ambushed me in the kitchen and demanded that I pick up another phone and talk with them. Back & forth, only barely paraphrased and slightly shortened to save you from the repetition, me in italics:
- why?
- just pick up the phone
- no, I'm trying to put the soup away & I have to walk the dog & I don't want to talk
- pick up the phone
- no, I don't want to talk right now, you can't make me
- just pick up the phone
- you put DOWN the phone and talk to me if you want to talk to me, you can't make me have a four-way conversation right now
- pick up the phone!
- just talk to me if you want to talk to me!
- I..mumble...mumble *walks away & stumbles back again* Pick up the PHONE!
...
Sigh.

He stayed on the phone with them until after 10pm. He apologized for the kitchen phone-ambush. Then he insisted that I talk to his BIL. I told him I didn't want to talk to BIL right now, and he pushed and pushed. Then he picked up the phone and started dialing the BIL's number! OMG! I said, "You just apologized for ambushing me with the phone before and now you're doing it again?!" GAH!

AH finished dialing, briefly spoke to BIL and handed me the phone, saying that our BIL would explain it all to me. I then went on to have a conversation that I didn't want to have & that I wasn't emotionally prepared for. From previous conversations with BIL, I know that he and my SIL are more focused on AH's mental health than his drinking. They see it as a symptom of unresolved mental health issues. Yes, I acknowledge that he's been self-medicating for some time now, but they are downplaying the alcoholism & don't realize what it's like to live with an alcoholic. I know he's coming from a good place, but BIL basically put pressure on me to find better mental health treatment for AH and to insist that he do it; he recommended that we do some joint sessions. This is NOT what I need to hear right now! I told him that I can't make AH better, I can't make him do anything, and NOTHING will get better unless he stops drinking...the best psychiatrist in the world can't fix a person who won't stay sober long enough to deal with their problems. I am not strong enough to keep doing this over & over, and I've been living in this seemingly endless cycle for over a year and a half now; BIL said he had faith in me. I told BIL that this all goes against what every family of A's resource says to do...that it has to be the A that gets help for themselves or it means nothing, that we can't make them do anything. BIL acknowledged that I can't make AH do anything, but in the same sentence, he tasked me with finding a psychiatrist for AH and insisting that he go and even told me I should offer to call & make the appointment for him. I agree that AH's current course of therapy is not working (would help if he focused on any sort of long-term sobriety), and I agree with BIL that AH is in trouble...but I don't think it's up to me to get him out of trouble.

I know that AH needs help. I know that he has a LOT of unresolved issues from his childhood. But I also know that drinking has become his therapy of choice, and he doesn't seem to want to give that up long enough to be present and to face his issues and to *do* something about them. Me making appointments and going in to psych sessions with him just doesn't sound right. If we were talking about just the mental health aspect, then maybe...but toss alcoholism into the mix, and it just seems like the wrong path to take. He won't make any progress on his unresolved issues until he tries to make progress with his alcoholism.

I just don't know what to do or say. I feel so stuck, numb, and lost. I could really use some words of wisdom (and hugs) right now, especially for those who have experience dealing with A's with mental health issues. At what point do I treat him like a depression/anxiety patient that I have to advocate for vs an A that needs to help himself?

Fathom

Hugs, CeciliaV.

I have to admit that I chuckled at your title. It made me realize I've been looking forward to the end of this year, not just this month. While it hasn't been nearly as bad as last year, I think I will wish it as fond a farewell as last year.

I also have to admit that I am very easily annoyed by pushy know-it-all family members who actually don't know squat about the situation and don't take the time to ask you before making proclamations about what is the right path for you. I'm so sorry you are juggling so much drama right now. My tactic in these situations with my family was to acknowledge their good intentions and to firmly state that I am taking the approach that makes sense to me. I have had to say this to most of my family members individually, mostly just once. I avoid sensitive topics with those that keep pushing their opinions on me... including my AH. Do you have a safe place you can be when he gets like that?

Take care,
Fathom

Hypatia

(((CeciliaV)))

I know you've been following my thread, so you know I have way too much experience being "next of kin" and acting as a patient advocate for mentally ill family members.

The key word is patient. Until the person becomes a patient there is nothing to advocate for. I have NEVER had success in getting my Mom or brother to honestly admit they had a problem and start actively working on their own recovery by seeking treatment. I've always had to wait until there was some sort of crisis which got an outside agency like police or paramedics involved. Only then could I start advocating on behalf of the patient.

With my husband, I also had absolutely no luck in getting him to do something about his drinking. Only when his Boss got involved did he start taking a few half-hearted measures to comply with the Boss' order to get treatment. But that still wasn't any real effort.

Just like with my Mom and brother, what finally got my husband the help he needs was a crisis involving paramedics and a trip to the emergency department.

I'm sorry but there is no easy way of dealing with family members who keep insisting that you do something. I could only tell them that I had already done my best and they should feel free to go ahead and try on their own. Funny how most of them just kept insisting it was my job and did nothing themselves.

A saying that I found myself repeating a lot was "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". A few family members did eventually understand and stopped pressuring me and started instead to support me. But a few others have never forgiven me for "letting" the situation get so bad that it developed into a real crisis. And yet that truly was the only way over the last 40 years that I've seen someone finally accept the help being offered.

Learn2Live

Cecelia, you are right. It is NOT your responsibility to arrange someone else's mental health treatment. A person who is depressed and has childhood issues is quite capable of picking up the phone and making his own appointments. He's not crippled, obviously, since he can call BIL. Sounds to me like BIL/SIL are trying to control not only the situation but you. And sorry, unless AH is schizophrenic and cannot live in reality, or has a severe developmental or cognitive disability, he is 100% responsible for his own health, including mental health, and his own sobriety.

It sounds to me like this person is running your life. The intrusion you describe with the phone and nagging, despite your stated needs and desires, to me, are a boundary issue. Have you done any boundary work yet?

Also, sounds like you are spending an inordinate amount of time and brain power focusing on the A, what he is doing, what he says, what others say, what he is not doing, etc. It truly sounds exhausting. Do you have time alone, time for yourself, time to think about nothing? If not, I hope you find a way to include some peace time in your life.

Nothing changes if nothing changes. And it sounds like AH is not going to be changing anytime soon. (((Hugs)))

CeciliaV

So far, October is sucking it hard just as much as September, and I'm barely an hour into it! It's not even 7:30am and I'm already crying. I'm not prepared emotionally right now to really delve into any sort of in-depth recap of the suckitude, but thank you for the replies & support. Right now, I've got to find a way to find my happy zen center (or at least my fake happy face) and slop myself together for work. Hooray, Monday.

Titanic

All one has to do is read the posts by As themselves on what finally made them get into true recovery. "I decided I couldn't, wouldn't live this way any more. I decided I would not pick up, use, or do it anymore."

It's not on You, you're right. But what is on You is taking care of yourself. You deserve it, it's your duty and it's your right!

Please consider going to Al-Anon meetings if you aren't already going. They will make a tremendous difference in perspective and practice. Face-to-face support from and to those of us who "live and get it."

CeciliaV

@Fathom - thanks for the hugs. I don't really have a haven to go to in order to escape the pressures. I keep considering Al Anon but I keep chickening out. I'm so raw and I feel like such a shell of myself...I fear that I would just crack if I were to go.

Thank you. This is exactly what I was trying to communicate to BIL last night. I told him that while his current course of action isn't working, AH isn't making use of the tools that he has *now* - I don't think that me trying to force a new set of tools on him will do a damn thing. He needs to want to get better, and he can't heal until he is sober and present and conscious and willing. What saddens me is that he's been to the ER twice now after binges, asking for help & medication so that he can try to break his cycle. If two trips to the ER don't wake him up, what will?! Ugh, forget I asked, I don't want to know the answer to that.

Thanks, Titanic. I tried to do at least some small things for me today. This sounds silly and trivial, but I bought myself some lip gloss & nail polish. I also told AH that I had a long hard day that started with crying, and I wanted to just tune out, so no heavy talks tonight. I can only take so much in a day.

As for the actual happenings of the morning that had me in tears? I had a very honest chat with AH and told him that he needs to focus on sobriety and then on healing himself rather than trying to fix "us." In this matter, he does need to be somewhat selfish and focus on fixing himself first; the rest of it is just additions that can come later. He needs to fix himself, and I obviously need to fix myself, because I'm broken and empty and I have nothing left to give him at this point. He's taken all that I had to give and more.

Oh, and also - AH admitted that he drove drunk yesterday. During one of his "I'll volunteer to go out and get things that we don't really need!" errand trips, he had already been drinking. He said it was "only a small bottle" of vodka. Only?! OH MY GOD. This was the first (and hopefully last) time he's driven drunk. He said he realizes how stupid it was and he realizes that he doesn't care enough about himself to care about putting anyone else in danger by driving drunk. I don't have the words to express how much this angered, frightened, and upset me.

My only outlets at this point are this forum, work (as stressful as it is there right now, it's keeping me very busy & otherwise occupied), and stupid online zombie killing games (very cathartic and mind-numbing). I am going to work on improving and expanding those outlets to be more numerous & more healthy. One step at a time.

CeciliaV

You are so right on so many levels here. My life has been consumed by AH for way too long. It's always been like that in one way or another. I moved cross country for him, relocated with him as his job required, hell I even left warm comfy Phoenix for Canada for him (nothing against my Canuck friends...Canada is awesome & all but the Phoenix weather was much nicer than the GTA winters!), and I've done whatever it takes to support him as he has worked to get where he is academically and professionally. It's time I rechannel those efforts into me.

I've considered volunteering to get some peace time and to get my mind focused on other things. I think i'ts time for me to stop considering and to DO.

Titanic

And who do you think we expect to come walking in the doors of Al-Anon as a newcomer, some happy-go-lucky chap or dame that's got this all nicely wrapped up in bows and whistles?

No, someone with a reason to be there. Someone like practically every newcomer. Someone like me. Someone like you.

We are either cracked into pieces, crackers, or gonna crack when we walk in those rooms. No need to bring tissues. We have boxes of Kleenex or Puffs handy.

We who have lived it "get it," just like you do. And we have experience, strength and hope to share.

Indeed. Our doors are open.

Hypatia

For my husband, it was waking up in a hospital bed and having absolutely no idea how he got there. He didn't go to emergency by himself, but was taken there by ambulance while unconscious. It was a huge shock for him.

Did your husband go by himself to a regular hospital emergency as a walk-in?

CeciliaV

@Hypatia, it was walk-in (or more accurately, stumble in) to the ER both times, and I took him there both times. He begged me to take him and stay with him. When we went through this September-ish of last year, I did not imagine we'd be back there a year later (and on our anniversary no less!). There was one time a couple months ago when he was soooo inebriated that I almost called an ambulance to take him to the hospital, and in hindsight, I kinda wish I had.

Hypatia

Ah, yes, there is a bit of a difference in perception between a drunk walking or stumbling into a emergency department and someone being brought unconscious by ambulance. I've found that emergency personnel often have a bit of tunnel vision. They are geared up to deal with a crisis requiring immediate medical action. I wouldn't be surprised if an emergency nurse doing triage would not consider a walking drunk as being a real crisis. She may even feel annoyed at the perceived waste of time and resources on a non-emergency.

It is a really tough situation knowing that someone is in bad shape, but not in a bad enough condition to be considered a real emergency. Especially when they refuse to get help using a regular approach to getting treatment.

lizatola

I just wanted to come on and say that I relate. Also, I live in Phoenix and the weather is finally starting to cool off, LOL, I'll try to send some sun up your way! And, Al Anon is for those of us who are going to crack soon, as well. You don't have to talk at a meeting, you can just sit and listen. I encourage you to go because I know that Al Anon has given me the strength to start taking care of me.

As for your story, one thing I've recognized about my situation with AH: when he gets weird or passive aggressive or condescending or starts to bully me, I have to tell myself that HIS attitude and mental crap is not about ME. He chooses how he acts, I can choose how I respond (or not respond at all) and am trying to learn how to NOT react. I have read quite a few books about handling aggressive and manipulative people as well as reading Melody Beattie's books on codependency. When I really feel pressed by him and put upon by his attitudes, I bury my nose in a self-help book, LOL. Works most of the time for me!

Titanic

If there is an emergency, DO NOT have the patient walk in. Call 911, and have the patient arrive in an ambulance.

Seen one too many cases of true emergencies walk in the doors of the ER and wait for eons, suffering. One died waiting.

When someone walks or stumbles in at night alone, ER's first thought is that it's just another drunk ... the drunk can sleep it off or get escorted out.

CeciliaV

The two times we've gone to the ER, it's been on weekends or evenings when AH has realized he is in a cycle...the one where he feels like crap from drinking the day before and wants to keep drinking to stave off the withdrawal symptoms but a small part of him realizes that it's not a good idea. He's also terrified that he will go into seizures, get the shakes, be scatter-brained as he goes through withdrawals, etc. He's a prof, so he needs to be sharp and not shaky so he can do his job.

The first time (last year), I don't think they did a blood test, but the second time (just under a month ago) they did - and he had drank so much the day before that he was still QUITE drunk. (They said levels were at 300 - ? Oy, is that the same as having a .30?!)

Anywho, the last time he was incoherent & nonresponsive, I came quite close to calling an ambulance to take him away. He was falling over, drooling, slurring badly, etc. Looking back, I was the total enabler that day. I got him out of his chair (still don't know how since I'm pretty wispy and he's got a good 50-60 lbs on me) and safely onto the floor & even somehow managed to wrangle him around onto some blankets I laid out on the floor for him. What the hell is wrong with me?! Sigh. In hindsight, it probably would have been best to call, but nothing I can do about that now. If he gets in that condition again, I would like to think that I will make the right call, but his drinking triggers things in me that make my brain's logic center not work so well. I would also like to think that he won't get in that condition again, but at this point, I'm trying to expect the worst so I can not be disappointed.

ZiggyB

I think it's pretty common that people with alcoholism are drinking to self-medicate.

My experience was thus over about 3 years:

A. admits he has a drinking problem which is making him sick emotionally. Quits drinking for a month or so, then thinks everything is fine and goes right back to it.

A. admits depression/anger was an issue for him in his last relationship. His EXW tried to get him to go to counseling, he gets on an SSRI which makes all of his problems worse, then he gets off the SSRI.

A. claims he has no money to afford mental health care, although he can afford lots of alcohol. Finally goes to a therapist at my prodding, they want to medicate him again and he refuses. Never does anything about his problems again but drink them away and get angry. Tells me I need to shut up about it all.

A. loses his job, begins drinking more heavily, becomes verbally abusive and picking more fights with me. Blames me for the deterioration and breakdown of the relationship. Refuses to admit alcohol is causing the problems and cites my anxiety issues as the root of the issue. Pretends he is fine and I am the one with all of the problems. Pretends he is the one leaving me after I've already broken up with him.

Bleh.

Basically 3 years of denial and B.S. and my self-esteem is left shredded. What a waste of time.

CeciliaV

Well, October isn't much better so far. Drunk again this weekend. Hiding booze & empties, and tried to sneak an empty out of the house again last night. Swore it was from last weekend. Asked him today to tell me where it was & he said it was gone. Knowing it was early enough in the day for him to still have some left, I went looking in his old hiding spots first...then CRASH BOOM from the next room. I exclaim a few choice words at the gigantic booming sounds and find him sitting sheepish in the next room proclaiming nothing happened and nothing's wrong. Vacuum cleaner is knocked over along with a couple other things by the closet - his NEW hiding spot is pockets of jackets at the back of our spare closet. He claims there's nothing there. Eventually agrees to go pull it out of a pocket of a jacket. Asks me to leave while he does it, so I KNOW that there's vodka left that he wants to just guzzle down. Finally pulls out a half empty bottle of vodka & insists there's nothing else. I check the other pocket of the jacket and find another empty.

Earlier today, he was insisting that the bottle he tried to sneak out of the house last night was from last weekend and he was ashamed and didn't want me to be angry. Earlier today, he was insisting that he's trying so hard to be honest & sober. Earlier today, I had some hope that he might, just might be sober and trying hard to tell the truth and maybe, just maybe he was telling the truth about that bottle being from last weekend. Earlier today, we had yet another conversation about honesty and him spending cash & what that does to trust levels.

He's skipping his Saturday group meetings. He's not pushing to get into see a psychiatrist any sooner than next week. He's barely going to his weekly Quad A meetings. I'm working my ass off to try to hold together what's left of our life together and I'm not sure that it's making any positive difference at all. I'm beyond tired of this sh*t. Honestly, a small part of me wants to just guzzle down the rest of that bottle so I can be numb to this sucky reality, too. Stupid idea and I won't do it, but seriously, I'm having such trouble dealing.

Titanic

STOP "dealing." It still ain't working, is it? It still ain't worth the "trouble," is it?

"Insanity" is doing the same things over and over but expecting different results. Alcoholics drink. They hide and lie. It's what they do. And what you're doing is what codependents do. (And, yes, we get to deal with all of it with NO NUMBING.) None of it works. Same results.

Learn how to LIVE for YOU. It's not selfish. It's basic self-care. Please consider going to Al-Anon meetings. Please read "Codependent No More" by Melody Beattie. Check the codependency threads here and the stickies on it in the F&FSA forum.

Learn about boundaries, detachment, enabling, letting go, etc.

Take care of YOU.

Peace be with you.

dollydo

" He said it was "only a small bottle" of vodka. Only?! OH MY GOD. This was the first (and hopefully last) time he's driven drunk."

I would doubt that it was the first time, nor will it be the last time.

Is this the type of life you want to live, searching his pockets for alcohol, taking him to the ER and riding on the rollercoaster from h#ll day in and day out?

Only you know the answer to that question, to me, you deserve so much better out of life.

redatlanta

I learned very quickly on here - no point in looking for bottles. Throw it away, pour it out, replaced. It doesn't humiliate them AT ALL. They don't care just find new hiding spots.

Quote by Dr. Phil "Policing your mate is insanity...it doesn't work. You cannot build a fence high enough that they can't climb over"