He apologized, so why do I feel so angry?
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My exah's 'apologies' used to be: "I'm sorry that {fill in the blank} made you so angry".
He used the word 'sorry' so it sounds like an apology on the surface...but it wasn't an apology at all. I understand NOW that this was probably the best apology he could put together. He was (still is) an alcoholic. He didn't want to stop drinking. All the rehabs in the world (there were four) ...all the AA meetings...all the late night promises that this time he would quit...didn't mean anything because in the end...he was an alcoholic...and he wanted to keep drinking. Period.
I wanted him to see how his disease was harming him, our marriage and our son. I wanted him to want to quit drinking.
He wanted something different. He wanted to keep drinking and he wanted me to find a way to be okay with it.
This battle of wills went on for years.
After a while, his 'apologizes' stopped meaning anything because the behavior never changed. His words were empty. Somewhere along the line, the hugs and kisses and "I love yous" (there were always PLENTY of these) stopped feeling loving and began feeling manipulative. The kind and loving gestures weren't enough because my exah was still an alocoholic who continued to drink. And because alcoholism is a progressive disease, his behavior and thoughts became more and more irrational and erratic. And although living with alcoholism is hard in almost every respect, I think the single most painful moment for me was when I FINALLY realized that I couldn't go back and things would never be the same between us. I could never trust him fully again because of all the lies and manipulation. I could never feel safe with him again emotionally. I would always have to be 'on guard'. There is a certain point of no return. Once we pass it, all the apologies and thoughtful and loving words in the world won't change things.
I can only speak of my experience. you've got to find your own path. maybe you can find a way to accomodate his disease in your marriage and relationship. doing so comes at a cost, however, There is ALWAYS a cost when alcoholism and addiction are involved. What price are you willing to pay to maintain the status quo?
He used the word 'sorry' so it sounds like an apology on the surface...but it wasn't an apology at all. I understand NOW that this was probably the best apology he could put together. He was (still is) an alcoholic. He didn't want to stop drinking. All the rehabs in the world (there were four) ...all the AA meetings...all the late night promises that this time he would quit...didn't mean anything because in the end...he was an alcoholic...and he wanted to keep drinking. Period.
I wanted him to see how his disease was harming him, our marriage and our son. I wanted him to want to quit drinking.
He wanted something different. He wanted to keep drinking and he wanted me to find a way to be okay with it.
This battle of wills went on for years.
After a while, his 'apologizes' stopped meaning anything because the behavior never changed. His words were empty. Somewhere along the line, the hugs and kisses and "I love yous" (there were always PLENTY of these) stopped feeling loving and began feeling manipulative. The kind and loving gestures weren't enough because my exah was still an alocoholic who continued to drink. And because alcoholism is a progressive disease, his behavior and thoughts became more and more irrational and erratic. And although living with alcoholism is hard in almost every respect, I think the single most painful moment for me was when I FINALLY realized that I couldn't go back and things would never be the same between us. I could never trust him fully again because of all the lies and manipulation. I could never feel safe with him again emotionally. I would always have to be 'on guard'. There is a certain point of no return. Once we pass it, all the apologies and thoughtful and loving words in the world won't change things.
I can only speak of my experience. you've got to find your own path. maybe you can find a way to accomodate his disease in your marriage and relationship. doing so comes at a cost, however, There is ALWAYS a cost when alcoholism and addiction are involved. What price are you willing to pay to maintain the status quo?
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Dear LIZ, from where I sit, I see so many people on this board who are so faithful in sharing their experience and accumulated wisdom with you. We so identify with the pain and desire to reach out to a fellow who suffers.
I particullarly noted what sesh said in her post about accepting the reality of your husband---the alcoholism and the narcissism---the abusive behaviors that have eroded into your self-esteem.
Sesh hit on the fact that if you actually accept that he is who he is---you would have to change---you would have to face your own fears (we humans hate that).
She is right, one could spend the rest of their life playing the games---he did this, so I did that. Someone said in a post, recently, that it is not our responsibility to figure out the "puzzle" of our significant other. We can't do it anyway.
Liz, I say keep going to alanon and give it your full attention and commitment. Address your fears with your therapist, also (you shared that you have a personal therapist). Commit to the work of therapy. You have admitted that you know, (intellectually), that this marriage partner is an extension of your abusive childhood.
This might sound like it is a lecture---I guess it IS. I say these things because I care about your pain and these things I believe to be true, because my experience tells me that they are.
dandylion
I particullarly noted what sesh said in her post about accepting the reality of your husband---the alcoholism and the narcissism---the abusive behaviors that have eroded into your self-esteem.
Sesh hit on the fact that if you actually accept that he is who he is---you would have to change---you would have to face your own fears (we humans hate that).
She is right, one could spend the rest of their life playing the games---he did this, so I did that. Someone said in a post, recently, that it is not our responsibility to figure out the "puzzle" of our significant other. We can't do it anyway.
Liz, I say keep going to alanon and give it your full attention and commitment. Address your fears with your therapist, also (you shared that you have a personal therapist). Commit to the work of therapy. You have admitted that you know, (intellectually), that this marriage partner is an extension of your abusive childhood.
This might sound like it is a lecture---I guess it IS. I say these things because I care about your pain and these things I believe to be true, because my experience tells me that they are.
dandylion
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You feel angry because what he is apologizing for is insane first of all and it/s a HUGE thing for you to process. It is going to take you alot of TIME probably to process that. Give it to yourself and be patient.
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Originally Posted by dandylion 
Dear LIZ, from where I sit, I see so many people on this board who are so faithful in sharing their experience and accumulated wisdom with you. We so identify with the pain and desire to reach out to a fellow who suffers.
I particullarly noted what sesh said in her post about accepting the reality of your husband---the alcoholism and the narcissism---the abusive behaviors that have eroded into your self-esteem.
Sesh hit on the fact that if you actually accept that he is who he is---you would have to change---you would have to face your own fears (we humans hate that).
She is right, one could spend the rest of their life playing the games---he did this, so I did that. Someone said in a post, recently, that it is not our responsibility to figure out the "puzzle" of our significant other. We can't do it anyway.
Liz, I say keep going to alanon and give it your full attention and commitment. Address your fears with your therapist, also (you shared that you have a personal therapist). Commit to the work of therapy. You have admitted that you know, (intellectually), that this marriage partner is an extension of your abusive childhood.
This might sound like it is a lecture---I guess it IS. I say these things because I care about your pain and these things I believe to be true, because my experience tells me that they are.
dandylion
I particullarly noted what sesh said in her post about accepting the reality of your husband---the alcoholism and the narcissism---the abusive behaviors that have eroded into your self-esteem.
Sesh hit on the fact that if you actually accept that he is who he is---you would have to change---you would have to face your own fears (we humans hate that).
She is right, one could spend the rest of their life playing the games---he did this, so I did that. Someone said in a post, recently, that it is not our responsibility to figure out the "puzzle" of our significant other. We can't do it anyway.
Liz, I say keep going to alanon and give it your full attention and commitment. Address your fears with your therapist, also (you shared that you have a personal therapist). Commit to the work of therapy. You have admitted that you know, (intellectually), that this marriage partner is an extension of your abusive childhood.
This might sound like it is a lecture---I guess it IS. I say these things because I care about your pain and these things I believe to be true, because my experience tells me that they are.
dandylion
I didn't even know my dad was an alcoholic until my mother told me that she divorced him because he wouldn't put down the vodka. HUH? I had no idea. We just didn't talk about stuff as a family, everyone kind of lived their own separate lives under 1 roof especially when my sister was being treated for leukemia. That was when my dad shut down emotionally and started drinking more(even though I saw this, I didn't know it was a problem until I was an adult). My dad couldn't handle seeing my sister in the hospital, sending me away to live with relatives when I was exposed to the flu or the chicken pox, etc, and he basically shut down. I had nowhere to go, no place to turn to. It was like I was an invisible ghost just passing through the house. I don't resent my sister and her illness. Cancer is a bitch and she was 5 when she was being treated. I loved her and supported her, I raised money at school for leukemia and did my health class report on the disease. Yet, I was shoved aside by the family and didn't realize how hard that hit me until I was well into adulthood and realized that I would take the scraps from the table instead of the whole meal. I was desperate for attention and would do anything to NOT be abandoned.
So, that's what it all comes down to. Fear. I know that, I have to deal with. It's not a fear of being alone because I love being alone and being with my own thoughts. But, I fear abandonment and that 'you're not good enough' sentiment. Thank you again for your support, I have a lot going through my head this AM. Sorry to everyone for my long winded posts!
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I,ve been reading some stuff recently on ACOA. It's really being a big help to me I have no idea if you have or are doing that but it,s been very enlightening.
Ngaire
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Originally Posted by lizatola
I couldn't find a huggy smilie for some reason, but wanted to thank you for caring so much. I responded to BothSidesNow thread this AM and I'm sitting here in tears remembering what my dad put me through and how oblivious my mother was to all of it. I swore up and down that my own children(well, I only had 1) wouldn't live in a home where you aren't allowed to express your emotions or where you are objectified sexually by a parent. If I've done anything right with my son, it's that I've always encouraged him to express himself and I have put him in therapy in the past and he's currently seeing a counselor, again. I want him to know that there are people out there who can help, I never even knew what therapy or a counselor was until I was well into my marriage and found out that AH had gone to therapy after his long time girlfriend forced him to go. Guess that should have been a red flag, but I really didn't know what alcoholism, depression, or any of that stuff was because it was never a topic of conversation in our home.
I didn't even know my dad was an alcoholic until my mother told me that she divorced him because he wouldn't put down the vodka. HUH? I had no idea. We just didn't talk about stuff as a family, everyone kind of lived their own separate lives under 1 roof especially when my sister was being treated for leukemia. That was when my dad shut down emotionally and started drinking more(even though I saw this, I didn't know it was a problem until I was an adult). My dad couldn't handle seeing my sister in the hospital, sending me away to live with relatives when I was exposed to the flu or the chicken pox, etc, and he basically shut down. I had nowhere to go, no place to turn to. It was like I was an invisible ghost just passing through the house. I don't resent my sister and her illness. Cancer is a bitch and she was 5 when she was being treated. I loved her and supported her, I raised money at school for leukemia and did my health class report on the disease. Yet, I was shoved aside by the family and didn't realize how hard that hit me until I was well into adulthood and realized that I would take the scraps from the table instead of the whole meal. I was desperate for attention and would do anything to NOT be abandoned.
So, that's what it all comes down to. Fear. I know that, I have to deal with. It's not a fear of being alone because I love being alone and being with my own thoughts. But, I fear abandonment and that 'you're not good enough' sentiment. Thank you again for your support, I have a lot going through my head this AM. Sorry to everyone for my long winded posts!
I didn't even know my dad was an alcoholic until my mother told me that she divorced him because he wouldn't put down the vodka. HUH? I had no idea. We just didn't talk about stuff as a family, everyone kind of lived their own separate lives under 1 roof especially when my sister was being treated for leukemia. That was when my dad shut down emotionally and started drinking more(even though I saw this, I didn't know it was a problem until I was an adult). My dad couldn't handle seeing my sister in the hospital, sending me away to live with relatives when I was exposed to the flu or the chicken pox, etc, and he basically shut down. I had nowhere to go, no place to turn to. It was like I was an invisible ghost just passing through the house. I don't resent my sister and her illness. Cancer is a bitch and she was 5 when she was being treated. I loved her and supported her, I raised money at school for leukemia and did my health class report on the disease. Yet, I was shoved aside by the family and didn't realize how hard that hit me until I was well into adulthood and realized that I would take the scraps from the table instead of the whole meal. I was desperate for attention and would do anything to NOT be abandoned.
So, that's what it all comes down to. Fear. I know that, I have to deal with. It's not a fear of being alone because I love being alone and being with my own thoughts. But, I fear abandonment and that 'you're not good enough' sentiment. Thank you again for your support, I have a lot going through my head this AM. Sorry to everyone for my long winded posts!
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Originally Posted by transformyself
Answer: YOu're still angry because his apology isn't sincere and you see this now. Based solely on your post, it appears however that you want to believe him, but once you've opened the door of knowledge, there's no going back.
I remember when this happened to me as well. I shifted from being elated and sooo happy when AH would apologize, to angry. The magic was gone. He couldn't lure me back into denial, I knew that the cycle would continue and that I still wasn't being respected.
That's because I continued to hand my power back to him. My choice.
What have his actions shown you?
I remember when this happened to me as well. I shifted from being elated and sooo happy when AH would apologize, to angry. The magic was gone. He couldn't lure me back into denial, I knew that the cycle would continue and that I still wasn't being respected.
That's because I continued to hand my power back to him. My choice.
What have his actions shown you?
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Originally Posted by sesh
OK, let's say his recovery was completely sincere (maybe it was, maybe it wasn't - no one but him knows that) it doesn't matter. Because I don't think you're angry just because of it, that comment was maybe just a tip of an iceberg. You have much bigger problem than that: his alcoholism.
I don't think you husband is in recovery, he is maybe just not drinking as often as before and calling it recovery. You can not do sobriety occassionllly, slipping from it every now and than. I think that is your main problem: living with an A.
And that is hard and overwhelming: that's why instead of focusing on it, and than doing something about it, we tend to put oursevles in position where we can not see the forrest from the trees.
He said this, and than you said that, and than he did or did not applogize, and maybe it was sincere and maybe it wasn't - thinking about things that way is doing nothing but clouding your mind, and making you unable to see the whole picture.
Don't get me wrong, I undesrtand it perfectly, I did it myself for years, because I was not ready to deal with a real, biggest and quite simple problem in my life: my A is an A. And by deal with it I mean - figuring out my life is miserable, and I am angry because I can not live like that any longer. I don't want to live like that any longer. And than I would have to do something about it.
It is so much easier to slip back into denial, to find reasons to believe he is trying when he is not. taking off those rose colored glasses is really hard. I think harder than anything I ever had to do. But once I did there was no turning back. I had to keep going, it was getting harder and harder until it finally started getting better. There is no other way than that.
The way you're living now can go on for ever. can you do that? Do you want to do that?
If he is true to his recovery, he doesn't need your help, he doesn't need anything from you. He'll stick to it no matter what.
I hope this doesn't sound too harsh.
take care
I don't think you husband is in recovery, he is maybe just not drinking as often as before and calling it recovery. You can not do sobriety occassionllly, slipping from it every now and than. I think that is your main problem: living with an A.
And that is hard and overwhelming: that's why instead of focusing on it, and than doing something about it, we tend to put oursevles in position where we can not see the forrest from the trees.
He said this, and than you said that, and than he did or did not applogize, and maybe it was sincere and maybe it wasn't - thinking about things that way is doing nothing but clouding your mind, and making you unable to see the whole picture.
Don't get me wrong, I undesrtand it perfectly, I did it myself for years, because I was not ready to deal with a real, biggest and quite simple problem in my life: my A is an A. And by deal with it I mean - figuring out my life is miserable, and I am angry because I can not live like that any longer. I don't want to live like that any longer. And than I would have to do something about it.
It is so much easier to slip back into denial, to find reasons to believe he is trying when he is not. taking off those rose colored glasses is really hard. I think harder than anything I ever had to do. But once I did there was no turning back. I had to keep going, it was getting harder and harder until it finally started getting better. There is no other way than that.
The way you're living now can go on for ever. can you do that? Do you want to do that?
If he is true to his recovery, he doesn't need your help, he doesn't need anything from you. He'll stick to it no matter what.
I hope this doesn't sound too harsh.
take care
Ok let's say his appology was completely sincere...
Why is it a good thing for you if he was at church to play-act at being the "good, godly husband and father" and was in a bad mood the whole time: you are being grateful for scraps, and rotten, moody, play-acting scraps at that. Essentially all he did was sat in a chair in a room in a bad mood.
There may be a time when you have to realise that he is not the person you want. All the words in the world don't change the fact that essentially you want a relationship with someone other than him. It appears you are trying to reconcile this by asking him to change into the person you want. He also wants to be with someone who is different to you, and is trying to reconcile that by asking you to change into the person he wants.
I understand this because this is what exAH and I did.
There may be a time when you have to realise that he is not the person you want. All the words in the world don't change the fact that essentially you want a relationship with someone other than him. It appears you are trying to reconcile this by asking him to change into the person you want. He also wants to be with someone who is different to you, and is trying to reconcile that by asking you to change into the person he wants.
I understand this because this is what exAH and I did.
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Originally Posted by sesh
Sorry, I have to edit myself. I meant to say:
Ok let's say his appology was completely sincere...
Ok let's say his appology was completely sincere...
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I find it interesting (and sad) that you didn't respond about the first post made by suki (the one that 16 of us liked). That post spoke volumes with only a couple sentences.
He got what he wanted (for now) back in your bed.
"More will be revealed" is my favorite sentence I have learned on SR.
Brace yourself for it, because it's coming...
He got what he wanted (for now) back in your bed.
"More will be revealed" is my favorite sentence I have learned on SR.
Brace yourself for it, because it's coming...
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Originally Posted by AlcoholicLove
I find it interesting (and sad) that you didn't respond about the first post made by suki (the one that 16 of us liked). That post spoke volumes with only a couple sentences.
He got what he wanted (for now) back in your bed.
"More will be revealed" is my favorite sentence I have learned on SR.
Brace yourself for it, because it's coming...
He got what he wanted (for now) back in your bed.
"More will be revealed" is my favorite sentence I have learned on SR.
Brace yourself for it, because it's coming...
And, yes, more will be revealed. He is in Vegas this week for a work convention and called me drunk last night. Hope he can keep it together since he's there with his boss and 3 other work associates from all over the country. So, yes, things will be coming......just don't know when because that's in my Higher Power's hands.
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Originally Posted by JenT1968
Why is it a good thing for you if he was at church to play-act at being the "good, godly husband and father" and was in a bad mood the whole time: you are being grateful for scraps, and rotten, moody, play-acting scraps at that. Essentially all he did was sat in a chair in a room in a bad mood.
There may be a time when you have to realise that he is not the person you want. All the words in the world don't change the fact that essentially you want a relationship with someone other than him. It appears you are trying to reconcile this by asking him to change into the person you want. He also wants to be with someone who is different to you, and is trying to reconcile that by asking you to change into the person he wants.
I understand this because this is what exAH and I did.
There may be a time when you have to realise that he is not the person you want. All the words in the world don't change the fact that essentially you want a relationship with someone other than him. It appears you are trying to reconcile this by asking him to change into the person you want. He also wants to be with someone who is different to you, and is trying to reconcile that by asking you to change into the person he wants.
I understand this because this is what exAH and I did.
And, you are absolutely right. He is not the person I want so I either need to learn to live with what I've got or end this charade. I get that, I just haven't 'felt' the pull to make that change yet. It is something that I walk with my Higher Power with daily, asking for clarity, for guidance, and for the right time for everything to be revealed.
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And, yes, more will be revealed. He is in Vegas this week for a work convention and called me drunk last night. Hope he can keep it together since he's there with his boss and 3 other work associates from all over the country. So, yes, things will be coming......just don't know when because that's in my Higher Power's hands.
I now need to decide whether I can live with this or not. I sometimes wonder if I had truly known/seen this when we first met and married. It seems it was masked by alcohol from the very start. If I was who I am today, back then, I don't think I would have been attracted to my RAH. Do I salvage what I can from 26 years of marriage raising 3 children and both of us having issues and being affected by the disease? I too ask my Higher Power for guidance and work on myself and wait for more to be revealed.
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Liz, you have resentments towards him about drinking but he has made it very clear that he still wants to drink. Marriage counceling, DUI arrests ect... don't seem to change his attitude towards drinking. That is not uncommon as it usually takes a huge amount of alcoholic wreckage before the alcoholic really wants to stop. As bad as you think your husband is with booze it can & probably will get much worse.
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He's awkwardly trying to make things a little better, stumbling his way, and he's used to only having to make small efforts in the past to accomplish the status quo of when you were physically intimate with him.
You've raised the bar much higher for that--does he know it?
I really don't think your husband has any idea how much you have raised the bar on what you want in a marriage, and I wonder if he will be the one to give up on it when he figures that out, perhaps giving up before you do, unless of course, he figures it will hurt him too much financially.
I'm wondering if he understands the level of effort you are looking for, and if he does, will he even be willing?
My ex once said to me--"I didnt drink for the last five days and nothing changed in YOUR behavior!"
Then he was right back to the bottle.
I believe he didn't understand that my trust could not be won back so quickly. I think your H thinks the same way...a little church, sleep in the bed, sober a few days, why isn't she responding?
You've raised the bar much higher for that--does he know it?
I really don't think your husband has any idea how much you have raised the bar on what you want in a marriage, and I wonder if he will be the one to give up on it when he figures that out, perhaps giving up before you do, unless of course, he figures it will hurt him too much financially.
I'm wondering if he understands the level of effort you are looking for, and if he does, will he even be willing?
My ex once said to me--"I didnt drink for the last five days and nothing changed in YOUR behavior!"
Then he was right back to the bottle.
I believe he didn't understand that my trust could not be won back so quickly. I think your H thinks the same way...a little church, sleep in the bed, sober a few days, why isn't she responding?
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Liz, you state that he is not the person you want--and you admit it is a "charade". Why in the world do you think that you should learn to live with it????
Can you really answer that question???
dandylion
Can you really answer that question???
dandylion
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I think sometimes people on this board want to see everyone leave their alcohol abusing spouse or partner, and do it NOW.
I think that decision is only for Liz to make, when she feels ready, if she ever feels ready, if she ever even gets to the point where she feels it is the right decision.
I think that decision is only for Liz to make, when she feels ready, if she ever feels ready, if she ever even gets to the point where she feels it is the right decision.
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