HAMS..what is this about?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: california
Posts: 103
HAMS..what is this about?
So I wandered upon the HAMS (Harm Reduction for Alcohol) website...what in heavens in this about!? It sounds similar to the approach my AH is taking.
I stumbled upon some info for the spouse in dealing with the alcoholic in this approach and I am not sure what to think! It seems to parallel what he is asking for from me....and yet I don't believe he is aware of this approach.
Looking at it from the spouse point of view......It seems to contradict most of what I have learned.
Parts made me say out loud...."Whaaaaattt????"
Anyone have a greater understanding and any experience with this?
I stumbled upon some info for the spouse in dealing with the alcoholic in this approach and I am not sure what to think! It seems to parallel what he is asking for from me....and yet I don't believe he is aware of this approach.
Looking at it from the spouse point of view......It seems to contradict most of what I have learned.
Parts made me say out loud...."Whaaaaattt????"
Anyone have a greater understanding and any experience with this?
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,149
I really hope this doesn't turn into another thread about how the only thing that works for alcoholics is x/y/z. Or what a real alcoholic is or whatever. On this board, NONE of that matters.
Your AH might find that a harm reduction approach significantly improves his life, or joining a 12-step based programme, or investing in crystals, or giving up his job and lying in a vat of custard or finding god, or finding more alcohol significantly improves his experience of his life. Good for him.
Much more important on this board, is you: You are allowed to define what works for you, what you are happy to live with and share your life with. That doesn't have to be logical or backed up by a programme or definition or label, no single other person has to agree with it, and there is no right approach. Nor does it have to be consistently applied to other people.
e.g.
I can accept, tolerate, and be completely unphased by a level of drinking in others that is intolerable to me when my Ex does it. That is because my ex repeatedly demonstrated behaviour when drinking that was dangerous, violent or in other ways unacceptable to me, and that I didn't want to live with. He tried many ways of harm reduction, and these may well have improved his life. Good for him.
For me to continue to live with my exAH and feel safe and happy he would have had to quit drinking alcohol completely. I have no idea if he is medically an alcoholic, or what that really means. I am uninterested, because it has no bearing on my decision. I know that when he drinks bad things happen to me.
he chose to keep drinking, we are divorced. Givent he realityn of the situation, this decision improved my life. Good for me
(())
Your AH might find that a harm reduction approach significantly improves his life, or joining a 12-step based programme, or investing in crystals, or giving up his job and lying in a vat of custard or finding god, or finding more alcohol significantly improves his experience of his life. Good for him.
Much more important on this board, is you: You are allowed to define what works for you, what you are happy to live with and share your life with. That doesn't have to be logical or backed up by a programme or definition or label, no single other person has to agree with it, and there is no right approach. Nor does it have to be consistently applied to other people.
e.g.
I can accept, tolerate, and be completely unphased by a level of drinking in others that is intolerable to me when my Ex does it. That is because my ex repeatedly demonstrated behaviour when drinking that was dangerous, violent or in other ways unacceptable to me, and that I didn't want to live with. He tried many ways of harm reduction, and these may well have improved his life. Good for him.
For me to continue to live with my exAH and feel safe and happy he would have had to quit drinking alcohol completely. I have no idea if he is medically an alcoholic, or what that really means. I am uninterested, because it has no bearing on my decision. I know that when he drinks bad things happen to me.
he chose to keep drinking, we are divorced. Givent he realityn of the situation, this decision improved my life. Good for me
(())
Forum Leader
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 10,944
Hi Amber,
Hopefully some folks will be along soon who can talk about their own experiences. I do not know anyone personally who has tried this approach. I don't think there is anyway to accurately judge the success rates of any program.
What I do know, is that a program, whatever it is, will work for someone if they put everything they have into it. If my stepson told me he was using the bubblegum and pink grapefruit recovery program, and it worked for him, I would be all for it.
There are many, many paths to recovery.
Hopefully some folks will be along soon who can talk about their own experiences. I do not know anyone personally who has tried this approach. I don't think there is anyway to accurately judge the success rates of any program.
What I do know, is that a program, whatever it is, will work for someone if they put everything they have into it. If my stepson told me he was using the bubblegum and pink grapefruit recovery program, and it worked for him, I would be all for it.
There are many, many paths to recovery.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Germany
Posts: 311
JenT1968 is right to be concerned that a huge argument could break out over this topic. You have stumbled across one of the biggest and most controversial aspects of treatment, particularly within the US. Over the last 50 years, the idea that some alcoholics can return to moderate drinking has become an ongoing hotly debated topic with reputable doctors and researchers backing up both sides.
The modern debate pretty much started in Britain back in the early 1960s when Dr. Davies published his observation that many patients seemed to be able to limit their drinking without completely stopping. He suggested further research was required to better understand the phenomenon.
Immediately a flurry of accusations started being hurled within the treatment community. Many US professionals simply scoffed at the idea and refused to even consider it. A few did begin researching and following up with clinical studies. The debate went beyond the boundaries of science and medicine as the press started publishing reports and opinions. Many individuals had staked their reputations and their money on the hypothesis that abstinence is the only way forward. The discussion soon echoed many of the same arguments used during the Temperance Movement which led to Prohibition in 1919.
Within the US, complete abstinence as advocated by AA is pretty much the only goal of treatment offered with very few exceptions. Anything else is considered heretical thinking by the mainstream and many scientists are not comfortable risking their reputations and their funding. Some US researchers, however, were intrigued enough to take a closer look. The most notorious were Mark and Linda Sobell who did a study in California which seemed to back up the initial observations of Dr. Davies. In 1976 the Rand Report, which was commissioned by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, also seemed to indicate that reduction was a viable alternative. The National Council on Alcoholism immediately attacked the report on the same day as it was published. In response, the Rand group did a four year follow-up study which seemed to validate its initial results. Studies in other countries also seem to show the possibility for some alcoholics to be able to moderate their drinking. In the US, however, accusations kept on going back and forth, with lawyers and courts and even the ethics committee of the American Psychological Association getting involved.
Within the US, the press played a large role in sensationalizing and attacking the Sobell and Rand study results in the 1970s. Various individuals and groups accused the Sobells of fraud, most notably Mary Pendery, Irving Maltzman, and L. Jolyon West in 1982 . It ended up such a politically charged debate that finally several investigations were set up to review the Sobell study and the allegations of fraud. The Addiction Research Foundation of Ontario, Canada, immediately set up a committee to look into the allegations and found no evidence of fraud. This was followed by a report from the Alcohol, Drug Abuse, and Mental Health Administration (ADAMHA), an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services, which also found no proof of fraud. The accusations continued and grew more political in nature. Finally the Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversights which is part of the U.S. Congressional Committee on Science and Technology stepped in and conducted its own investigation. Again the Sobells were found to be innocent of fraud. And yet many still continue to dismiss their findings and those of subsequent studies.
There is a real split in how professionals view alcoholism. Some promote the disease concept, while others see it as a behavioral disorder. Reading through various psychological journals, I've noticed an almost geographical pattern. Within the US, any suggestion of something other than the disease concept with abstinence as the goal is pretty much ridiculed within mainstream society. I believe that there is no treatment center in the US which accepts moderation as a viable alternative. In other countries, however, the concept of moderate controlled drinking has been acknowledged as a possible alternative goal. The traditional view of abstinence, however, continues to be the stated goal of the majority of programs worldwide. HAMS also includes abstinence as a possible lifestyle.
The success of moderation as opposed to abstinence has been shown to rely a lot on the psychological and medical history of the patient. Further studies have shown that those drinkers most likely to have optimal results with moderation are those who have no actual physical dependence, are healthy with no other medical problems, and are relatively new to alcoholism. Long term drinkers and those already showing evidence of liver and other organ damage should be encouraged to abstain.
The HAMS treatment approach has been developed as a result of all this controversy. Following the behavioural disorder model, it encourages both reduction and abstinence. That is reflected in its full name: Harm Reduction, Alcohol Abstinence and Moderation Support.
Personally I have no experience with either abstinence or moderate controlled drinking. For me, everything after the initial rehab is still theoretical. My husband is in his third week of rehab and still has almost 3 months to go. No alcohol is allowed at the rehab center so he is currently abstaining. The goal of his rehab center is a lifestyle of abstinence.
I don't believe my husband even knows about the alternative approach and I have no plans to tell him about it. But if he does choose to join a self-help group and actively work a controlled drinking program then I will do the same as if he had joined AA or any other self-help group. Wait and see and then make my own decision based on the result of his behaviour.
The modern debate pretty much started in Britain back in the early 1960s when Dr. Davies published his observation that many patients seemed to be able to limit their drinking without completely stopping. He suggested further research was required to better understand the phenomenon.
Immediately a flurry of accusations started being hurled within the treatment community. Many US professionals simply scoffed at the idea and refused to even consider it. A few did begin researching and following up with clinical studies. The debate went beyond the boundaries of science and medicine as the press started publishing reports and opinions. Many individuals had staked their reputations and their money on the hypothesis that abstinence is the only way forward. The discussion soon echoed many of the same arguments used during the Temperance Movement which led to Prohibition in 1919.
Within the US, complete abstinence as advocated by AA is pretty much the only goal of treatment offered with very few exceptions. Anything else is considered heretical thinking by the mainstream and many scientists are not comfortable risking their reputations and their funding. Some US researchers, however, were intrigued enough to take a closer look. The most notorious were Mark and Linda Sobell who did a study in California which seemed to back up the initial observations of Dr. Davies. In 1976 the Rand Report, which was commissioned by the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, also seemed to indicate that reduction was a viable alternative. The National Council on Alcoholism immediately attacked the report on the same day as it was published. In response, the Rand group did a four year follow-up study which seemed to validate its initial results. Studies in other countries also seem to show the possibility for some alcoholics to be able to moderate their drinking. In the US, however, accusations kept on going back and forth, with lawyers and courts and even the ethics committee of the American Psychological Association getting involved.
Within the US, the press played a large role in sensationalizing and attacking the Sobell and Rand study results in the 1970s. Various individuals and groups accused the Sobells of fraud, most notably Mary Pendery, Irving Maltzman, and L. Jolyon West in 1982 . It ended up such a politically charged debate that finally several investigations were set up to review the Sobell study and the allegations of fraud. The Addiction Research Foundation of Ontario, Canada, immediately set up a committee to look into the allegations and found no evidence of fraud. This was followed by a report from the Alcohol, Drug Abuse, and Mental Health Administration (ADAMHA), an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services, which also found no proof of fraud. The accusations continued and grew more political in nature. Finally the Subcommittee on Investigations and Oversights which is part of the U.S. Congressional Committee on Science and Technology stepped in and conducted its own investigation. Again the Sobells were found to be innocent of fraud. And yet many still continue to dismiss their findings and those of subsequent studies.
There is a real split in how professionals view alcoholism. Some promote the disease concept, while others see it as a behavioral disorder. Reading through various psychological journals, I've noticed an almost geographical pattern. Within the US, any suggestion of something other than the disease concept with abstinence as the goal is pretty much ridiculed within mainstream society. I believe that there is no treatment center in the US which accepts moderation as a viable alternative. In other countries, however, the concept of moderate controlled drinking has been acknowledged as a possible alternative goal. The traditional view of abstinence, however, continues to be the stated goal of the majority of programs worldwide. HAMS also includes abstinence as a possible lifestyle.
The success of moderation as opposed to abstinence has been shown to rely a lot on the psychological and medical history of the patient. Further studies have shown that those drinkers most likely to have optimal results with moderation are those who have no actual physical dependence, are healthy with no other medical problems, and are relatively new to alcoholism. Long term drinkers and those already showing evidence of liver and other organ damage should be encouraged to abstain.
The HAMS treatment approach has been developed as a result of all this controversy. Following the behavioural disorder model, it encourages both reduction and abstinence. That is reflected in its full name: Harm Reduction, Alcohol Abstinence and Moderation Support.
Personally I have no experience with either abstinence or moderate controlled drinking. For me, everything after the initial rehab is still theoretical. My husband is in his third week of rehab and still has almost 3 months to go. No alcohol is allowed at the rehab center so he is currently abstaining. The goal of his rehab center is a lifestyle of abstinence.
I don't believe my husband even knows about the alternative approach and I have no plans to tell him about it. But if he does choose to join a self-help group and actively work a controlled drinking program then I will do the same as if he had joined AA or any other self-help group. Wait and see and then make my own decision based on the result of his behaviour.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: right here, right now
Posts: 6,516
I pretty much second Ceridwen: Whatever your A chooses to do is his business, not yours. Your business is figuring out what you want your life to be, what your boundaries are regarding what behavior you are willing to accept from other people, and what behaviors you have learned in a relationship with an A that you need to unlearn.
Sounds simple. It's not. But it's worth the effort.
Sounds simple. It's not. But it's worth the effort.
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 1,295
I'm not an alcoholic, however I did join in the party with XAH for the honeymoon and dating period of our relationship. I imagine if I hadn't we wouldn't have even had a relationship.
When my daughter said "Mom, you drink too much too!" is when I decided not to go to the party with him anymore as a method of relating to him and keeping the status quo of the blissful years.
Since then, 5 years ago, I recognize certain elements of drinking, when I have one or a few, which is only now and then these days.
The personality starts to change with the first drink, alcoholic or not. The first drink may seem to only relax, relatively harmless. The second drink leads to slight intoxication, and right there at the second drink the drinking person may say something that they would not with no drinks or just one. Thinking and judgment has been altered.This is what I discovered about myself, watching to make sure that I wasn't alcoholic also.
My point being that a person who has had problems with alcohol probably can't ever return to "normal" drinking, because alcohol has this effect whether an alcoholic or not.
How can a person that needs to adjust their thinking in big ways continue to enjoy drinking when it only takes two drinks for psychological changes to occur?
This from a non-alcoholic.
When my daughter said "Mom, you drink too much too!" is when I decided not to go to the party with him anymore as a method of relating to him and keeping the status quo of the blissful years.
Since then, 5 years ago, I recognize certain elements of drinking, when I have one or a few, which is only now and then these days.
The personality starts to change with the first drink, alcoholic or not. The first drink may seem to only relax, relatively harmless. The second drink leads to slight intoxication, and right there at the second drink the drinking person may say something that they would not with no drinks or just one. Thinking and judgment has been altered.This is what I discovered about myself, watching to make sure that I wasn't alcoholic also.
My point being that a person who has had problems with alcohol probably can't ever return to "normal" drinking, because alcohol has this effect whether an alcoholic or not.
How can a person that needs to adjust their thinking in big ways continue to enjoy drinking when it only takes two drinks for psychological changes to occur?
This from a non-alcoholic.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
I think you hit the nail and I've said this to my husband many times. They don't see it or get it >
"The personality starts to change with the first drink, alcoholic or not. "
There is a chemical reaction to alcohol in the brain, the change is immediate. Much more pronounced for those who have a dependency on this chemical. Once they put that substance in their body, whether it be one sip or one bottle - they change.
We are no longer dealing with that person, we are dealing with a chemical.
If his addiction was heroin, would we say - just one or two injections a day won't hurt? Really? Or cocaine - one or two snorts a day would be fine. It's exactly the same - only many think alcohol addiction is far harder to break. If you are addicted, playing around with it is extremely dangerous, from my experience.
My husband and I tried that approach for 16 years, haven't we all, really?
"The personality starts to change with the first drink, alcoholic or not. "
There is a chemical reaction to alcohol in the brain, the change is immediate. Much more pronounced for those who have a dependency on this chemical. Once they put that substance in their body, whether it be one sip or one bottle - they change.
We are no longer dealing with that person, we are dealing with a chemical.
If his addiction was heroin, would we say - just one or two injections a day won't hurt? Really? Or cocaine - one or two snorts a day would be fine. It's exactly the same - only many think alcohol addiction is far harder to break. If you are addicted, playing around with it is extremely dangerous, from my experience.
My husband and I tried that approach for 16 years, haven't we all, really?
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: rural Germany
Posts: 311
I don't see it or get it either.
Saying that alcohol is exactly the same as heroin or cocaine is extreme fear mongering. I've read many reports that light to moderate drinking is actually healthy. I have yet to read a single report or study that says light to moderate use of heroin or cocaine is good for your heart or health.
Hmm.... but you aren't actually dealing with me. I'm sipping a drink right now containing Caffeine, Calcium, Betaine, Chlorogenic acid, Liverine, Magnesium Choline, Dicaffeoylquinic acid, Methylliberine Phosphate, Niacin, Feruloylquinic, Paraxanthine, Potassium, Trigonelline, Theacrine, Sulphate, Theobromine, Theophylline, and a bunch more chemicals. And yes, I am addicted to this drink as are many more tens of millions of people in the USA and all over the world. Maybe even you, too.
Saying that alcohol is exactly the same as heroin or cocaine is extreme fear mongering. I've read many reports that light to moderate drinking is actually healthy. I have yet to read a single report or study that says light to moderate use of heroin or cocaine is good for your heart or health.
Hmm.... but you aren't actually dealing with me. I'm sipping a drink right now containing Caffeine, Calcium, Betaine, Chlorogenic acid, Liverine, Magnesium Choline, Dicaffeoylquinic acid, Methylliberine Phosphate, Niacin, Feruloylquinic, Paraxanthine, Potassium, Trigonelline, Theacrine, Sulphate, Theobromine, Theophylline, and a bunch more chemicals. And yes, I am addicted to this drink as are many more tens of millions of people in the USA and all over the world. Maybe even you, too.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
We're talking about a substance abuse addict. An addiction to alcohol or drugs.
My husband should've and certainly almost died from alcoholism. Every single facet of life was nearly destroyed. I personally see no difference between an alcoholic dabbling with booze or a heroin addict dabbling with heroin. I sincerely hope that you, and others, never have to go through end-stage addiction. Brutal.
Maybe at a less severe stage of addiction they can drink again. I only have my experience to go by and what I've learned from others.
But - as other posters pointed out - this is his decision. We are we going to do today to be healthy?
My husband should've and certainly almost died from alcoholism. Every single facet of life was nearly destroyed. I personally see no difference between an alcoholic dabbling with booze or a heroin addict dabbling with heroin. I sincerely hope that you, and others, never have to go through end-stage addiction. Brutal.
Maybe at a less severe stage of addiction they can drink again. I only have my experience to go by and what I've learned from others.
But - as other posters pointed out - this is his decision. We are we going to do today to be healthy?
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Western Canada
Posts: 540
What an interesting topic. First off, I'm an alocoholic, not the spouse of one, so that's my perspective on this topic.
Hypatia, very interesting and informative read! Thanks.
I won't give an opinion on HAMs, just my own personal experience. I tried to control and limit my drinking and it was a total failure. Then I decided to try to quit by tapering, and I actually ended up drinking MORE. cuz I'm an alcoholic, I can't just have one or two, my alcoholic, addicted brain wants more more more! If I could control and limit my drinking, I don't think I'd be an alcoholic. I quit cold turkey (with supervision from my dr.), and I'm ten days sober. I'm in AA.
That's just my story. I don't have an opinion for others in terms of abstinence v. reduction in drinking/controlled drinking. Whatever works for someone, great! I just know that for me, it's either all or nothing. Maybe earlier I could've done moderation, but I'm too far in now.
Hypatia, very interesting and informative read! Thanks.
I won't give an opinion on HAMs, just my own personal experience. I tried to control and limit my drinking and it was a total failure. Then I decided to try to quit by tapering, and I actually ended up drinking MORE. cuz I'm an alcoholic, I can't just have one or two, my alcoholic, addicted brain wants more more more! If I could control and limit my drinking, I don't think I'd be an alcoholic. I quit cold turkey (with supervision from my dr.), and I'm ten days sober. I'm in AA.
That's just my story. I don't have an opinion for others in terms of abstinence v. reduction in drinking/controlled drinking. Whatever works for someone, great! I just know that for me, it's either all or nothing. Maybe earlier I could've done moderation, but I'm too far in now.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
It could be a cultural thing. In the United States, complete abstinence is the mode in 90% of treatment centers. There are places that encourage harm reduction. For example, instead of injecting heroin, they suggest addicts snort it. Instead of drinking hard alcohol, they suggest drinking beer. If these places worked it would conflict with the whole disease concept.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
The subject is complicated because of the variables.
AA (I am most familiar with this organization) sees the only solution of complete abstinence because AA was originally designed for the "hopeless alcoholic" or what is commonly referred to as a "real alcoholic" as opposed to just a problem drinker.
This is another subject of great debate and even conflict within AA as it has evolved into an organization that has within its membership people who are there because they are court ordered and not necessarily alcoholic as well as even people who attend AA for its social benefits and of course, many who are problem drinkers only.
For some people who have had problems with alcohol but are not
real alcoholics" have on occassion had success with moderation... there are recovery websites that have forums dedicated to this goal. There are many who try it repeatedly but end up realizing that abstinence is the only thing that will work for them.
Each A has to figure this out onl their own... choosing complete abstinence as a way of life for the rest of their life is a huge step for them. My XA said giving up alcohol seemed as difficult as giving up breathing or hacking off a limb.
He continues to drink and it appears that he will drink until he dies and at this rate it will be soon. He is only 42.
AA (I am most familiar with this organization) sees the only solution of complete abstinence because AA was originally designed for the "hopeless alcoholic" or what is commonly referred to as a "real alcoholic" as opposed to just a problem drinker.
This is another subject of great debate and even conflict within AA as it has evolved into an organization that has within its membership people who are there because they are court ordered and not necessarily alcoholic as well as even people who attend AA for its social benefits and of course, many who are problem drinkers only.
For some people who have had problems with alcohol but are not
real alcoholics" have on occassion had success with moderation... there are recovery websites that have forums dedicated to this goal. There are many who try it repeatedly but end up realizing that abstinence is the only thing that will work for them.
Each A has to figure this out onl their own... choosing complete abstinence as a way of life for the rest of their life is a huge step for them. My XA said giving up alcohol seemed as difficult as giving up breathing or hacking off a limb.
He continues to drink and it appears that he will drink until he dies and at this rate it will be soon. He is only 42.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 378
Chocolate addiction? Now you're talking my language! But you can cut back. If someone was addicted they'd be buying it by the truck load and hiding it under the covers.
Before I understood anything about addiction, and that took getting clubbed repeatedly over the head like an idiot, we drank together socially all the time. I remember years ago, accidently finding bottles that he had hidden in his car or in a room. I couldn't figure it out. There was no issue with drinking at that time, nothing to hide. We drank at meals and parties openly. Now I see that it was a much deeper issue. And although we drank together, he was always drinking much more than I knew. Hiding was a big part of that.
I remember saying at different times - OK, time to slow down the drinking and we would. Or he'd say, I'm only going to drink on the weekends. Long story short - it ended with a husband in the last stage of addiction, knocking on death's door.
Before I understood anything about addiction, and that took getting clubbed repeatedly over the head like an idiot, we drank together socially all the time. I remember years ago, accidently finding bottles that he had hidden in his car or in a room. I couldn't figure it out. There was no issue with drinking at that time, nothing to hide. We drank at meals and parties openly. Now I see that it was a much deeper issue. And although we drank together, he was always drinking much more than I knew. Hiding was a big part of that.
I remember saying at different times - OK, time to slow down the drinking and we would. Or he'd say, I'm only going to drink on the weekends. Long story short - it ended with a husband in the last stage of addiction, knocking on death's door.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: california
Posts: 103
Thanks for the replies!
Hypatia THANK YOU !
I seem to post to this site for specific insights at times, specific information as to how the alcoholism works and what is happening because of it. I know I need to focus on ME and how it affects me...BUT I tend to need more information on the overall issue. It helps me to understand what direction to take my boundaries and what is b.s. and what I can work with.....
I am intrigued by other routes other than AA, just because I think there has to be more than one way to solve a problem. However, not sure I really buy into any one theory just yet. Though leaning towards AA abstinence.
SIDENOTE:
I remember reading a lot early on about food allergies (my daughter had a milk & soy issue when young) I found information on "studies" done which tested a group of 100 alcoholics and found over half had Dairy allergies plus other food allergies. I also read about the corn allergy theory and was surprised to see that AH's Jim Beam whiskey was made with corn. He has always had stomach issues since a child and nowadays this would appear as a food allergy. How sad would it be if any part of alcoholism was indeed triggered or affected by an allergy!When thinking about genetics and the rampant alcoholism in his family, I wonder if it could be related. Of course I know it is larger than that, but I wonder what developments will be made in the next 10 years with this.
Just thinking aloud.....and again I know it doesn't matter why we have this problem...but my mind gets intrigued by these things. I hope I don't get kicked off this site for asking questions about my spouse rather than myself!
But this is part of my process...understanding the what and the why.
Hypatia THANK YOU !
I seem to post to this site for specific insights at times, specific information as to how the alcoholism works and what is happening because of it. I know I need to focus on ME and how it affects me...BUT I tend to need more information on the overall issue. It helps me to understand what direction to take my boundaries and what is b.s. and what I can work with.....
I am intrigued by other routes other than AA, just because I think there has to be more than one way to solve a problem. However, not sure I really buy into any one theory just yet. Though leaning towards AA abstinence.
SIDENOTE:
I remember reading a lot early on about food allergies (my daughter had a milk & soy issue when young) I found information on "studies" done which tested a group of 100 alcoholics and found over half had Dairy allergies plus other food allergies. I also read about the corn allergy theory and was surprised to see that AH's Jim Beam whiskey was made with corn. He has always had stomach issues since a child and nowadays this would appear as a food allergy. How sad would it be if any part of alcoholism was indeed triggered or affected by an allergy!When thinking about genetics and the rampant alcoholism in his family, I wonder if it could be related. Of course I know it is larger than that, but I wonder what developments will be made in the next 10 years with this.
Just thinking aloud.....and again I know it doesn't matter why we have this problem...but my mind gets intrigued by these things. I hope I don't get kicked off this site for asking questions about my spouse rather than myself!
But this is part of my process...understanding the what and the why.
1000 Post Club
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 2,284
Amber, in AA we say that we are allergic to alcohol. IMO alcoholism is a very complex brain disorder. There are many factors that lead to alcoholism. Genes, environment, mental/physical health ect....
Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,243
Originally Posted by Amber23 
Thanks for the replies!
Hypatia THANK YOU !
I seem to post to this site for specific insights at times, specific information as to how the alcoholism works and what is happening because of it. I know I need to focus on ME and how it affects me...BUT I tend to need more information on the overall issue. It helps me to understand what direction to take my boundaries and what is b.s. and what I can work with.....
I am intrigued by other routes other than AA, just because I think there has to be more than one way to solve a problem. However, not sure I really buy into any one theory just yet. Though leaning towards AA abstinence.
SIDENOTE:
I remember reading a lot early on about food allergies (my daughter had a milk & soy issue when young) I found information on "studies" done which tested a group of 100 alcoholics and found over half had Dairy allergies plus other food allergies. I also read about the corn allergy theory and was surprised to see that AH's Jim Beam whiskey was made with corn. He has always had stomach issues since a child and nowadays this would appear as a food allergy. How sad would it be if any part of alcoholism was indeed triggered or affected by an allergy!When thinking about genetics and the rampant alcoholism in his family, I wonder if it could be related. Of course I know it is larger than that, but I wonder what developments will be made in the next 10 years with this.
Just thinking aloud.....and again I know it doesn't matter why we have this problem...but my mind gets intrigued by these things. I hope I don't get kicked off this site for asking questions about my spouse rather than myself!
But this is part of my process...understanding the what and the why.
Hypatia THANK YOU !
I seem to post to this site for specific insights at times, specific information as to how the alcoholism works and what is happening because of it. I know I need to focus on ME and how it affects me...BUT I tend to need more information on the overall issue. It helps me to understand what direction to take my boundaries and what is b.s. and what I can work with.....
I am intrigued by other routes other than AA, just because I think there has to be more than one way to solve a problem. However, not sure I really buy into any one theory just yet. Though leaning towards AA abstinence.
SIDENOTE:
I remember reading a lot early on about food allergies (my daughter had a milk & soy issue when young) I found information on "studies" done which tested a group of 100 alcoholics and found over half had Dairy allergies plus other food allergies. I also read about the corn allergy theory and was surprised to see that AH's Jim Beam whiskey was made with corn. He has always had stomach issues since a child and nowadays this would appear as a food allergy. How sad would it be if any part of alcoholism was indeed triggered or affected by an allergy!When thinking about genetics and the rampant alcoholism in his family, I wonder if it could be related. Of course I know it is larger than that, but I wonder what developments will be made in the next 10 years with this.
Just thinking aloud.....and again I know it doesn't matter why we have this problem...but my mind gets intrigued by these things. I hope I don't get kicked off this site for asking questions about my spouse rather than myself!
But this is part of my process...understanding the what and the why.
No one gets kicked off this site and all questions are welcomed.
Like you I had a burning, obsessive need to understand alchoholism and I have spent the last four years reading hundreds of books, articles, studies and scientific journals on alcoholism.
Sadly, I have a great understanding of the disease and its enormous complexities and despite my "educating" myself I was unable to in any way change the eventual outcome of my relationship. I can tell you that I was able to by sheer force of will, policing, and steely edged boundaries kept my alcoholic on a chain of sobriety more than he was off for a period of 4 years.
I made myself crazy, I made him crazy and delayed the inevitable. You cannot force an alcoholic to be sober and have a happy relationship. It's like feeding a pit bull razor blades ... it just makes them mean even if they don't have a mean temperament!
We tried every single medication, treatment modality, counseling and my XA read dozens and dozens of books as well. He was in long term residential treatment 3 times during our four years together. He could teach recovery he was so well versed in the programs themselves.
I recommend that you learn every single thing you can so it gives YOU some peace and understanding but there are no silver bullets and you are right that there is more than one way to get sober... the trick is STAYING sober and finding the lifestyle of recovery that works for the A and the spouse and family.
We never found it as a couple ... he always picked up again. He is sober today because he is in jail... again. Once he gets out he will bee line for a store to get a drink. He will drink himself into the grave this time I think.
Good luck on your journey and ask any questions you want anytime!
Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Kansas
Posts: 10,182
When I hear the term "moderated drinking," I know as a long-term recovering alcoholic myself (22 years) that I had no control over my drinking in my active years. HAMS would never have worked for me.
Recovery for me is learning to live a completely different life, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. That does not include alcohol.
In my personal opinion, if someone successfully uses HAMS for a prolonged period, they are a problem drinker, not an alcoholic.
What are you doing for yourself to heal from the effects of his drinking, dear?
Sending you hugs of support!
Recovery for me is learning to live a completely different life, physically, emotionally, and spiritually. That does not include alcohol.
In my personal opinion, if someone successfully uses HAMS for a prolonged period, they are a problem drinker, not an alcoholic.
What are you doing for yourself to heal from the effects of his drinking, dear?
Sending you hugs of support!
Currently Active Users Viewing this Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
