Charon

If I'm not mistaken, the main proponant of this approach fell of the wagon and killed someone while driving. Same happens in any "program", but - for me - the only thing that works is NO ALCOHOL AT ALL EVER. I wish it could be different, but too many "experiments" have proven beyond the shadow of a doubt otherwise. Other peoples milage may vary.

Mel12

Thanks Hypatia, for the details on the research. It is puzzling that the accusations of fraud would be so persistent in that we all know people who have successfully cut back. I am not threatened by the finding that some can successfully cut back. Any approach that moves someone in the right direction has my vote!

On the other hand, I know I want to quit, not cut back. It gets very, very tiresome to have your life controlled by the feeling that "I have to get something to take the edge off." I am really sick of it. My goal is to quit.

Mel

onlythetruth

What an absolutely wonderful thread.

As someone who has found a non-12-step recovery program most helpful in my own life (I'm sober 14 years) I am rather used to the attitude of that all recovery must be not only abstinence based, but must be 12 step based!

To observe you folks having a rational discussion that includes other pathways is a wonderful breath of fresh air.

I am someone who tried moderation (a program called moderation management) and found that it was impossible for me to moderate, which is why I ended up choosing abstinence. But I am aware that not everyone needs this.

And there are others who simply truly cannot abstain, and the reality is that it is better for those folks to follow a harm-reduction regime than it is for them to drink themselves to death on the streets. It's simply common sense if you ask me.

Finally, as family members, you are right: your loved one's recovery is UP TO THEM, and your own life is UP TO YOU. It is really that simple, although it is never easy. None of this is ever easy.

Freedom1990

Kudos to you for finding your own way in sobriety!

I'm really sorry you have experienced such attitudes in regard to 12 step programs. Although I am involved in such programs, I also recognize that "one size fits all" is not an attitude I wish to have. Early in sobriety I will confess that I was so excited that I wanted to preach AA from the rooftops!

I learn a lot from non-12 step recovery methods, and appreciate the experiences shared. I have taken bits and pieces and incorporated them into my recovery. An open mind is so important to me.

Thanks, onlythetruth!

Hopeworks

This^

We can ALL learn something from every approach to alcoholism and codependency.

AA was a pioneering concept that had amazing results with a very hardcore disciplined approach ... you had to be "card carrying" to get even into meetings in its early days (meaning you were vetted, found to be a hopeless alcoholic" and "willing" to follow their program to the letter.

AA is now more inclusive and less demanding in that all that is required is a desire to stop drinking.

While AA led the way in treating alcoholism many other methods including AVRT and others...

I personally have been all over the board as had been my XA... from every drug known to man inlcluding baclofen, AVRT, AA, counseling, the church Jesus only approach and anything and everything we could grab on to.

His best results were a committed 12 step active AA program and he was simply a new person... amazing times but too short lived... 12 mos max... with 3 to 6 month stretches of sobriety more common.

His mistress is alcohol... he misses her while seperated and gives place to the alcoholic voice when sober ... eventually... he lets her lead him back to her siren song and he is in very, very deep trouble.

Grazing from all the pastures of recovery and finding what works is what is the smartest route but it also allows the alcoholic to "use" this philosophy to find fault with everything... and so it goes...

So... we take care of ourselves and be a light in the darkness without trying to control and pray that they seek their own HP or own understanding of how to solve what is ultimately their problem.

m1k3

This is a great thread. I think there is one issue, which Freedom touched upon already, and that is not every one who drinks or even drinks a lot is an alcoholic. I do believe there are people have, for lack of a better term, an allergic reaction to alcohol which makes them unable to control their drinking, but not everyone who is a drinker or even a drunk has that allergy.

For them a program that include moderation may be quite successful. It's a shame there isn't some sort of test that could identify those who have this allergy.

This could also explain why some people quit with or without a program and their lives start to improve rather quickly. They have the "allergy" and removing the source of the allergy starts them healing.

While others, with or without a program, quit yet all the same personality issues continue to persist, the dry drunk syndrome. It seems to me that for these folks alcoholism isn't the source of their problem but rather a symptom of a different problem.

Just my 2 cents.

Your friend,

sugarbear1

I thank everyone for their input. I have no opinion on this issue of HAMS.

For me, my alcoholism is that I don't know how to live life without drinking. I have found a solution to this problem, for me.

I can't consume alcohol. My boyfriend drinks half a beer on occasion or has an alcoholic drink and a cigar, but never comes around me when doing so.

I do want to say that in my experience, it is the behavior of the individual with whom I have a relationship with that makes the difference in how we interact. Is it acceptable? Are my/his boundaries being respected? etc.

I wish you both well!

Carol Star

I know I have a disease that wants me to die. It is all changing seats on the Titanic for me- and I know I will go down with 1 whatever- joint, pill, drink, cigarette,bad relationship ,whatever......no denial here- am an alcodependentcodaholicaddict...all...seats on the Titanic......I can't moderate s---. Oh forgot m&m's.....

lillamy

I'm a nicotine addict. That's the only addiction I have that I can relate to this.

And I know that for myself, it would be fabulous if I could CUT DOWN and only use whatever means of nicotine in a limited fashion. It's never worked for me, though -- it's either total abstention or balls to the walls use and panic attacks when I can't find my nicotine gum and running to Walgreens at midnight because I can't imagine a day at work without nicotine. Etc. I've been nicotine free for years in a row, but all it takes is one day of thinking "Hm, I'll just go ask Curt if I can steal a piece of Nicorette from him because I'm worked up about this meeting" and I'm stuck again.

That's my story. My experience. I wish it wasn't that way.