6901

I posted this in another forum, but since I think this forum is more appropriate, I'll repost it here.

Good morning all, I'm new to this site. I'm struggling to find out what my wife is thinking and what I should be doing. I'll try and be brief:

My wife and I have been married for almost 4 years (and together for 11). She's always had a drinking problem, and we were both in denial by thinking it was just a problem. After multiple times catching her hiding empty vodka bottles throughout the house last summer (2011), I gave her an ultimatum to stop drinking (and lying) or I was done. That day, she went to an AA meeting and had 8 successful months of sobriety.

This June, my wife relapsed. She went to a detox facility, and insurance would only allow her to stay for a couple of days. Needless to say, she relapsed immediately, and we put her back into detox two weeks later. This time, she did an IOP program following detox, followed by a night program so she could go back to work. Unfortuntately, she again relapsed. The stress from work is just too much for her to handle right now.

She went into detox again, and this time we set up for her to go to rehab right afterwards (out of state). She is currently at a dual diagnosis facility (because she also suffers from bulimia, which has been untreated for 18 years). She was feeling great but missing me and our home. Her plan was for me to come pick her up when she is discharged so we can spend a few days together and then come home where she would continue treatment.

I come to find out (from her father) that she now wants to go to stay with her day in another city (8 hours away) and not come home. She stated that she isn't ready to go back to work (which I never pressure her to do), and that she is now saying that it will be too stressful for her to come home because of our relationship.

This is news to me. Obviously, we're not perfect, but I have been her biggest supporter and I don't know why I was shut out of her thought process, other than she didn't want me to change her mind. The reason why I believe staying with her dad is a bad idea is because he too is an alcoholic, his 31 year old son lives with him who is a heroin addict, and my wife's uncle is also staying at the house who is some sort of recovering addict. Doesn't sound like a safe environment to me.

I'm just devastated because I feel like I was blindsided and left out of the most important decision following my wife rehab. Her mind seems so set that I don't know what to do. I've tried telling her there will be no stress in our house, and her only focus will be on her recovery, nothing else (whether or not our relationship has problems...that can be resolved later).

She comes home this Friday, and I still don't think she will change her mind (and stay and do here recovery here, rather than go live with her dad). Any advice, words of wisdom, support would be much appreciated.

Thanks for listening.

BTW, since it's probably not very clear, although my wife and I have had our ups and downs, we do very much love each other. She calls me her best friend and the person who knows her best. She tells me she loves me more than anything. I just don't understand why I now seem to be the villain or the problem. She talks to her dad everyday, and some of her friends. She used to talk to me everyday until about 10 days ago. Now I've talked to her on the phone twice.

Ann

Welcome to SR. I find it odd that her father was the one to pass on the message.

Perhaps when she comes home the two of you can calmly discuss what lies ahead for each of you.

Whatever she chooses, it sounds like you could use some support to keep your balance through all this. Have you tried Al-anon meetings? Many here have found them helpful and a good way to have live support to call.

Take a read around, others will be along to welcome you also.

I'm glad you joined us and hope you find some answers here.

Hugs

6901

Thank you Ann, I appreciate your support. She was afraid to call me because she didn't want me to try to talk her out of it. Also why she probably didn't include me in her thought process.

I have not tried Al-anon meetings yet, but I'm starting to look into them since I feel like I'm finally losing my grip on things.

lillamy

I think you have a valid concern about the people she plans on living with.

On the other hand, I've also been in Al-Anon (and on this site) long enough to know that it's a rocky road for both addicts and spouses after rehab. I often hear spouses (who have expected sobriety to equal normalcy) feel slighted and ignored when their addicts come back from rehab; I also know that addicts post-rehab basically have to learn to live their lives again without the "padding" their alcohol/drugs provided. I know it's hard for both parties.

I honestly think my AXH had a better shot at staying sober without me. Even though I had spent years in Al-Anon when we split up and he went to rehab (in that order), I was not ideal company for him when he was trying to get sober. I've heard As say that recovery is a full-time job for the first year... 18 months... three years... depending on who you ask. He had no mental energy for paying attention to me, or caring for the children, or participating in anything a family does.

Part of what we need to learn as spouses of As is to let them succeed or fail on their own strength. To separate ourselves from them. To "sweep our side of the street" and learn what coping mechanisms we have developed that are detrimental to ourselves. And also how we -- often by trying to control -- rob the addicts of their right to make their own choices.

Those are just some random thoughts... after sobriety, everything changes. Some couples stay together. Some don't. My suggestion would be to give her the space and time she needs, and take the time to build your own life, regardless of what she chooses to do.

Hypatia

There are times when my biggest supporter turns into my biggest pain in the butt. She starts telling me what to do and I end up having to tell her to just shut up and back off. Funnily enough, I have the same tendency to start telling her what she should be doing and then it is her turn to tell me to shut up and back off. Obviously we are best friends and get along great.

Perhaps your wife isn't strong enough right now to tell you to back off?

Tuffgirl

Well said, lillamy. I too believe, even though recently divorced, that my now ex's best shot at recovery was without me around. The pressures of it all - family, kids, bills, etc. I can kind of see your wife's perspective on this one. I would imagine its a trigger right now, and she is too fragile to feel confident to handle it.

But, that's doesn't negate the need to communicate with you, out of respect for you. I'd at least stress that with her.

Maybe that can be a negotiation point - she communicates openly, and you allow her whatever time and space she needs to learn the new skills for living sober.

Learn2Live

I am not one to condone or support folks in trying to figure out or guess at what the alcoholic or addict might be thinking, but in this case I just want to tell you that there is likely more behind her decision than she is letting on. A person who wants to be sober does not normally choose to move in with alcoholics or drug addicts.

If nothing else, in this life I have learned that when a person wants to go, it is best to LET THEM GO. It is difficult to do this, and it has taken me MANY years of practice and more than a lifetime's worth of pain and tears, to get to the point where I no longer beg or try to reason with someone to get them to stay. She has chosen her path and I know it hurts, but Let Go, 6901, and Let God.

EnglishGarden

This apparent change of plans has to be very painful for you. But it is part of the roller coaster of life with an alcoholic.

Your wife's relapse in June set her right back where she was when she got sober last year after many years of drinking. She had 8 clean months, did not achieve a year of sobriety, and since June, has relapsed again and yet again. I assume in July. Perhaps August? So she has been dry perhaps two weeks? Three?

And post-treatment she wants to go live with an active alcoholic and an active heroin addict? It would seem the admonition from her recovering peers to avoid "people, places and things" is going into deaf ears.

I think it would be best--if you can--to accept that she is nowhere near in her right mind and that her addiction is still making all her choices and impacting her every feeling and thought. When an alcoholic is not done, she is absolutely not done, and she will weigh every single choice before her on whether or not it will be good for her drinking.

You, obviously, are not that good for her drinking.

I would step away, not interfere, live and let live, and take as best care of yourself as you can while she goes off to create another train wreck.

If she drinks again--very very likely--she will be calling you to bail her out of whatever sh** she got herself into. Do NOT rescue her.

When she cleans up for a solid year and acts like a grown up, then you two can go to marriage counseling and see whether or not you still like each other.

Straighten up, stand tough, do not let her control you. She will pull out every alcoholic tactic in the world to manipulate you when she screws up again. Name it when she does it and let her fall hard. She is one of the lucky ones: she got to stay alive long enough to get some treatment for her disease. She got to hear the TRUTH about her disease. And now it is ON HER to take RESPONSIBILITY for dealing with her disease.

Have you ever read "Getting Them Sober" by Toby Rice Drews. Get a copy. Memorize it. It will give you the backbone to not put up with anymore bullsh**.

Best of luck. We are glad you found SR.

Titanic

I agree. Likely more, much more. She spent time in rehab and detoxed. She's got the "isms" but not the old numbing and "coping" addi(c)tives! She's had plenty of time to talk to others there and to her dad. She's not communicating with you about important stuff or involving you in some decisions, including a very serious and big change in your relationship (separating). Treatment and rehab centers tell As "no big changes for a year", while recovering. Yet, that's a huge one. She's had time to think. She's thought about and talked about your relationship to her chemical dependency counselors as well as in group. The A is so self-centered (especially right after detox) that blame is going to be thrown the partner's way in that thinking process. I'm not saying that this has happened but there's a lot of fraternization in rehab (romantic involvments) even though virtually all certified treatment and rehab facilities prohibit it. It's addiction switching or cross-addiction to the high of a new relationship. In AA groups, the equivalent is called 13th stepping.

Now she wants out of your place yet wants to move in, not to a "sober house," but an "active addict house." That makes no sense at all!

Unless there's been domestic violence in the home, or there will be direct and significant interference with sobriety (like being in an "active addict house"), it is NOT - IMHO - a good idea for the A who has just been released from rehab to separate from the A's spouse or partner. That person can support the A by freeing the A up to go to meetings, talk with sponsor or other AA members, read AA literature, etc etc etc. That person can watch the kids (if any), cook dinner, do laundry etc etc to free time up for the A. Separating results in more combined expense, more schlepping around, and more schedule coordination problems (kids, for example).

Separating means more real stress, which the A doesn't need, especially in early recovery. NO BIG CHANGES FOR A YEAR is the general rule. The A is now supposed to take the rehab experience to the A's real world. That means back home. How will any improvement be measured when the conditions have changed dramatically to a separated situation? Separation, when A does it unilaterally right after rehab, is a sign of NOT working the program.

All red flags in my experience and that of people in the Al-Anon rooms. We see it over and over.

Just sayin' I'm sure it's tough to hear and think about this.

Anyway, take what you like and leave the rest.

Eddiebuckle

Very good comments and advice here. Having been the person in rehab I would add this:

Early recovery is full of emotional swings, slowly improving thought processes, and self assessment. There is also the internal battle of "am I really an alcoholic"? This question may not be consciously processed, but the answer to the question is critical to whether one continues in sobriety upon discharge and returning to "the real world." It very well might be that in her heart of hearts, she cannot accept the idea of never drinking again. You have made your position on her drinking clear, perhaps she is doing the same.

Regardless of what is really going on in her head, you need to absolutely understand that she is going to do whatever she is going to do. You cannot control, guide or even influence her recovery if it is to last. She needs to get this to her core and never forget it: she is an alcoholic, and every time she drinks she will return to the place she left off, with the ultimate outcome being loss of everything she values. Until she understands and accepts that fact, the odds for long term sobriety are slim indeed.

Hopeworks

Lots of red flags and after years of my own struggles with my XA I learned that it is a bad idea to collect them like they are party favors.

You have already gotten a lot of great advice but the the most important piece of the puzzle is your wife's TRUE commitment to sobriety and authentic recovery... unless she is willing to do whatever it takes to insure her best chance at NOT relapsing again then the odds of success become remote.

Life is nothing but a series of choices that determine our destiny. Your wife could choose to talk to you or she can call her dad or someone else... you are the voice that has already set boundaries and obviously have decided that your life and if she returns her life will be alcohol free....or...

She can call her dad who is an alcoholic. I am sure that as an alcoholic his life philosophy about the role of alcohol in his and her life is very different.

This is a huge red flag and an obvious poor choice on her part. Consciously or subconsciously she is setting the stage to drink not recover.

And while this is painful and sad for you it may be a blessing in disguise because you could avoid what many of us have done in our own relationships... try to force recovery on someone who chameleons back and forth to keep the peace, keep the enabling spouse on the hook yet in their heart they want to drink!

That is what alcholics do... they drink. Like breathing air they want the feeling that alcohol gives them and they will stop at nothing to get it....unless they want recovery more than alcohol and the damage it brings.

I don't think your wife wants sobriety and recovery as much as she wants the next breath of air and with all of her heart and soul...or she would be choosing a different path in a sober environment with you or at a sober living facility.

What do her counselors say??? Does she have a sponsor???

I echo the other posters... focus on you. Having plan a,b and c and healthy detachment and your own recovery will be so life changing for you. It was for me!

Learn2Live

I'd like to add to what EddieBuckle has said, that while your spouse is figuring out what she is doing with her life, whether you agree with it or not, it is your responsibility to focus on your own life, what you want, where you need to grow, what you'd like your future to look like, etc. i highly recommend Al-Anon, at least to start.

Hypatia

So are the father and brother active in their addictions or abstaining and in recovery? The uncle is apparently in recovery.

BlueSkies1

I have had to give up on trying to read the alcoholic mind. It drove me insane trying to read it. It moves in and out of parallel realities faster than I was able to figure out which reality (or pseudo-reality) it was currently in.
On that note- why she is making the choices she is making is not to be speculated upon. You can ask her, and she can answer honestly, or not, or a combination thereof.
She may be protecting her alcoholism to the degree that she knows she can't go back to living with you and drink too. Or--
She may be thinking that your personality is too strong here, and that she has to want sobriety for herself, which she can't decide living with your ultimatum that she must quit. See then it isn't her decision.
See...here even I go speculating again.
Just ask her why...it's all you can do, then watch it all unfold, accepting you are powerless over her.
More will be revealed as someone here says often--think it is tuffgirl?--
Here's a thought to ponder. If she falls off the wagon living at her dad's, and then wants to come home, what will you say?

6901

Thank you all for your insight and advice. I really do appreciate everyone's input. Just to add some info to the story:

My wife tells me that her dad won't have alcohol in the house and that her brother is not using. Apparently he's seeing a doctor, but taking medication. Not going to meetings or rehab. Her uncle is supposedly recovered, but I don't even know what his addiction is. The thing is, her dad loves her, but he also thinks just by being with him will help her. I don't know (it hasn't helped her brother).

Having no real experience to fall upon, I was thinking like Titanic that no big changes were recommended after rehab. I also agree with Titanic that I have no idea how much blame has been directed toward me to get her counselors to understand that getting away from me is best. There has definitely been no abuse. My feeling is that she's trying to figure out what makes her depressed, anxious and so forth, and the easiest person to blame is the person closest to her (as opposed to recognizing it could be a chemical issue).

But that is all irrelevant I guess because, as everybody says, there's nothing I can do or say to convince her otherwise. She won't call me and talk to me, only texts me, which isn't helpful. I'll see her for the first time this weekend when she comes home before she leaves again. I'm torn between trying to just listen to why she made this decision and say nothing, or if I should at least say something on my behalf (such as this is a safe place for her recovery if it doesn't work with her dad and she wants to be here, but not pressure her). It's just hard for me not to say anything.

I just need to make it through this weekend and then really start taking care of myself. How do you let go of someone you love so much with the thought of losing them forever? I've done it once before with her under easier circumstances...this time is 10 times harder.

Tuffgirl

Well, it may be easier to look at it as not letting her go, but letting go of your idea of a relationship with her right now. She doesn't have it to give. She may later on...who knows. But right now, for today, she does not.

Letting go is painful, I agree. So take it one day at a time, and have faith that she will find her own way. Say a prayer for her. Tell her you love her. And then get on with your own life.

Hypatia

So in the end you are upset that your wife is not following your suggestions. Doesn't sound like she's going into a dangerous environment which will definitely jeopardize her recovery. But it does sound like she just can't deal with you trying to change her mind and managing her recovery for her.

lillamy

Thank you for that insight, Eddie.

dandylion

6901, I think there is only one thing you can be "sure" of for the moment---and that it is time to attend to yourself. You have just received a GINORMOUS lesson on the subject of: You are powerless over her and her disease.

I think the idea is so prevalent that alcoholism is the only problem in the relationship--and if "they" would just stop drinking, all would be well.

Many marriages don't work out---even when there is no addiction. My ex was not an alcoholic. He was narcissistic. Just as bad. The prognosis was fatal-- for me.

You mentioned that your wife has untreated bulimia. This (to me) suggests that the current situation is only the tip of the iceberg.

A LOT is going to unfold over time. I sincerely believe that the best thing you can do is to bbegin attending alanon and seek out a therapist for YOU. You are in for a ride.....hang on baby!

dandylion

6901

She's been getting treatment for her bulimia while in rehab (in fact I think that's been the majority of her treatment). I am powerless and recognize that. At the same time, I am her husband and would like to be included in her life. Communication would have helped. It went from communication through the first part of her rehab to none the rest of it.

I am certainly not saying our only problem in the relationship is her drinking. It's just the only one that matters in terms of her health right now. My point was that whatever additional problems there are can wait while she takes care of herself.

Obviously, taking care of myself is the only thing I can worry about now. I'm just so sad things turned out like this and still hope to have her come back (if she does). I just hope it's not too late. She's a great person and I would be lucky to spend the rest of my life with her. But, support from a distance is the best I can do I guess.

Thanks again everyone.